The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:42 pm

malchior wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:34 pm
Jaymann wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:28 pm NAACP sues Florida Man.
Washington — A Democratic congressman and the NAACP filed a lawsuit in federal court Tuesday alleging former President Donald Trump and his attorney Rudy Giuliani, along with far-right extremist groups, conspired to incite the January 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol to block Congress from reaffirming President Biden's win in the presidential election.
Civil matter = "preponderance of the evidence."
Anyone want to guess the outcome? There are no damages? No standing?

No standing, for sure. Easiest way out for this lawsuit.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:16 am

malchior wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:34 pm
Jaymann wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:28 pm NAACP sues Florida Man.
Washington — A Democratic congressman and the NAACP filed a lawsuit in federal court Tuesday alleging former President Donald Trump and his attorney Rudy Giuliani, along with far-right extremist groups, conspired to incite the January 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol to block Congress from reaffirming President Biden's win in the presidential election.
Civil matter = "preponderance of the evidence."
Anyone want to guess the outcome? There are no damages? No standing?

All the best lawyers got OJ off, but he still got nailed in civil court. I'm hoping Florida Man gets the same.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:57 am

Paingod wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:16 amAll the best lawyers got OJ off, but he still got nailed in civil court. I'm hoping Florida Man gets the same.

I get the hope but the history of these type of lawsuits doesn't give this a very high chance of going anywhere.

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:14 am

Paingod wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:16 am
malchior wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:34 pm
Jaymann wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:28 pm NAACP sues Florida Man.
Washington — A Democratic congressman and the NAACP filed a lawsuit in federal court Tuesday alleging former President Donald Trump and his attorney Rudy Giuliani, along with far-right extremist groups, conspired to incite the January 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol to block Congress from reaffirming President Biden's win in the presidential election.
Civil matter = "preponderance of the evidence."
Anyone want to guess the outcome? There are no damages? No standing?
All the best lawyers got OJ off, but he still got nailed in civil court. I'm hoping Florida Man gets the same.

If we're using OJ as an example then there is hope that Florida Man will eventually go to prison for something.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:27 am

Scraper wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:14 am
Paingod wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:16 am
malchior wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:34 pm
Jaymann wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:28 pm NAACP sues Florida Man.
Washington — A Democratic congressman and the NAACP filed a lawsuit in federal court Tuesday alleging former President Donald Trump and his attorney Rudy Giuliani, along with far-right extremist groups, conspired to incite the January 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol to block Congress from reaffirming President Biden's win in the presidential election.
Civil matter = "preponderance of the evidence."
Anyone want to guess the outcome? There are no damages? No standing?
All the best lawyers got OJ off, but he still got nailed in civil court. I'm hoping Florida Man gets the same.
If we're using OJ as an example then there is hope that Florida Man will eventually go to prison for something.

Maybe in a few years' time he'll be breaking into a political antiques dealer to try and steal his "Biggest Crowd Size" award and get nabbed.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:54 am

OJ and Florida Man. There’s a joke in there somewhere for someone willing to dig for it.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:01 am

Apparently they have played golf together, but OJ is no fan of Florida Man.

O.J. Simpson is getting political -- railing against his old pal Donald Trump's MAGA catchphrase ... while begging people to vote.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:58 pm

Jaymann wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:01 am Apparently they have played golf together, but OJ is no fan of Florida Man.
O.J. Simpson is getting political -- railing against his old pal Donald Trump's MAGA catchphrase ... while begging people to vote.

I didn't laugh.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:52 am

Supreme Court says prosecutors can have Trump's tax returns:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/22/politics ... index.html

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:58 am

This should escalate quickly.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:04 am

Can he just appeal again? It seems like he can just stall forever. It's ridiculous.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:06 am

Octavious wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:04 am Can he just appeal again? It seems like he can just stall forever. It's ridiculous.

This is it for his ability to stall on the tax returns for NY. Though it doesn't change that it has been utterly ridiculous so far. Just last week, the near delay of a month since he wasn't President was raising questions wondering whether it was possible that there was political battling going on behind the scenes to get this order out the door. I doubt we will know the answer to that question any time soon or ever.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:13 am

Octavious wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:04 am Can he just appeal again? It seems like he can just stall forever. It's ridiculous.

To whom? The Super-Supreme Court?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:17 am

I'm just waiting for the next appeal on some basic evidentiary matter to go on for years. Though perhaps the tax returns are the missing piece to some case.

As an aside, Trump's lawyers miscalculated a bit on this. There was a report just a few days ago that were going to wait out the maximum time (~150 days) to file an objection a petition for oral arguments to try to drag this out more.

Edit: This is a mood I get

BREAKING: After 4 months of inaction, SCOTUS in a one-sentence unsigned order declines Trump's request to further postpone enforcement of a Manhattan DA subpoena for his financial records. The order clears the way for a NY grand jury to obtain the records & review them in secret.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:37 am

Are we talking about the tax returns the NYT already obtained and released last year or something more/different?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:39 am

Financial, not tax.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:41 am

This is the Kriminal Sopena that's going to crack this case wide open, yes?

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:43 am

Zaxxon wrote:
Octavious wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:04 am Can he just appeal again? It seems like he can just stall forever. It's ridiculous.
To whom? The Super-Supreme Court?

I don't know anymore. It just always seems that he finds a new way to stall forever.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:45 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:37 am Are we talking about the tax returns the NYT already obtained and released last year or something more/different?

It's unclear if there will be more but it seems reasonable to think since it is from an actual custodian versus another source that it'd be more extensive/complete.

Isgrimnur wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:39 am Financial, not tax.

Mazars will include the tax records.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:48 am

Octavious wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:43 am
Zaxxon wrote:
Octavious wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:04 am Can he just appeal again? It seems like he can just stall forever. It's ridiculous.
To whom? The Super-Supreme Court?
I don't know anymore. It just always seems that he finds a new way to stall forever.

To put it in context, the original ruling from the 2nd Circuit was in November 2019. It took SCOTUS a year and a half to kick this back and forth including this 4-month zero comment delay. It is IMO fair to question this. This is just a subpoena for some records. If Vance brings a case, he'll probably be able to delay it for years still.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:50 am

It’s gone on for so long, I forgot why they are requesting the records? What’s the specific charge they are investigating or trying to prosecute here?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:52 am

Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:50 am It’s gone on for so long, I forgot why they are requesting the records? What’s the specific charge they are investigating or trying to prosecute here?

This started off as an investigation into the Stormy Daniels payoff. Essentially I think it'd come down to whether he wrote off a bribe as a business expense but once you have the records and the investigation has begun the potential spider's nest of criminality is there to see as well. There is some discussion that it has expanded to include fraudulent loan applications since they've interviewed his bankers at Deutsche bank. For example, maybe he filed a write off on a tax return while making an opposite statement to his banks - essentially either defrauding the bank or defrauding the treasury.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:06 pm

This is different then than the investigation into the Trump Organization? Or does it encompass that as well?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:13 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:06 pm This is different then than the investigation into the Trump Organization? Or does it encompass that as well?

The Trump Org one I believe is now 100% civil (at the moment) and being led by NY AG Letitia James. Essentially Vance passed on prosecuting Javanka so she launched the civil investigation based on case notes passed over to her office (as I recall it at least).

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:24 pm

He is handling today's order well. I'm for one shocked that he has not turned over a new leaf.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:28 pm

Still referring to himself in the third person, I see.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:29 pm

Let's see. We've got self-reference in the third person, Random Strange Capitalization, other grammatical errors galore, scare quotes, falsehoods both large and small, stream-of-consciousness flow... I think he might have actually typed that up himself!

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:29 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:28 pm Still referring to himself in the third person, I see.

Jinx! Jinx, I say!

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:31 pm

The happened to no other president because no other president decided to keep their businesses running, have they?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_aff ... nald_Trump

No other president has

been involved in 3,500 legal cases in U.S. federal courts and state court, an unprecedented number for a U.S. presidential candidate.[1] Of the 3,500 suits, Trump or one of his companies were plaintiffs in 1,900; defendants in 1,450; and bankruptcy, third party, or other in 150.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:52 pm

Pretty rich for Trump to comment on what is a threat to our liberty.

Hyena · Post by **Hyena** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:03 pm

Like the comment in there says, there's no WAY he wrote that third paragraph himself. The rest of it is allllllll him.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:43 pm

If Trump didn’t have anything to hide, he would have shown his tax returns before running.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:29 pm

The kernel of truth in that atrociously written...tirade, is that he (and other people!) FEEL that he won the election. That’s really what it’s all about.

Hey illiterate shitbird, I *feel* like I won the lottery. Should I be doused with millions of dollars even if my numbers don’t match?

Fucking moron. I wish I had not even read that garbage. My overall mood has been so much better lately without reading or hearing his constant, whiny fucking squawking.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:36 am

This is why I have pledged to never read or listen to any utterances from Florida Man again. There is no upside. Ever.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:10 am

malchior wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:24 pm He is handling today's order well. I'm for one shocked that he has not turned over a new leaf.

I have to say, I've been so happy to not hear his every whiny self-aggrandizing Tweet this last month that I was willing to read the first two lines of that before I stopped.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:29 pmFucking moron. I wish I had not even read that garbage. My overall mood has been so much better lately without reading or hearing his constant, whiny fucking squawking.

+3

Living in a nation run by him was like being in an abusive relationship.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:38 am

FEEL

That really stood out for me as well. Not the strongest know, not think, not even a weak believe but the weakest of all, feel. I feel like I have worked hard my whole life, have been given the short end of the health stick, have sacrificed everything to keep on keeping on and not be a burden to others, and should have been able to retire at 40 so I could have enjoyed life a bit while I was still young and healthy enough to travel and experience things. But you know reality doesn't give a shit about my feelings on the matter.

+3

+4 but I also read most things posted here on the subject for good or ill.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:26 am

Trump is figuring out ways to communicate. Will it have the impact of his Tweets? It remains to be seen but as usual he is angry and trying to break out of his box. I expect as he gets more harried by the legal system the danger to the system will rise. But we must do it. If we don't figure out a way to actually hold him accountable, this system will be known as deeply flawed. Lawless President's will become the norm. We've had 2.1 lawless Presidents in 50-ish years (Clinton was borderline) and that involved 8 men. That's a pretty shit record for the Head of Government and supposed font for Law and Order.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:57 am

Paingod wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:10 am
malchior wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:24 pm He is handling today's order well. I'm for one shocked that he has not turned over a new leaf.
I have to say, I've been so happy to not hear his every whiny self-aggrandizing Tweet this last month that I was willing to read the first two lines of that before I stopped.
Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:29 pmFucking moron. I wish I had not even read that garbage. My overall mood has been so much better lately without reading or hearing his constant, whiny fucking squawking.
+3

Living in a nation run by him was like being in an abusive relationship.

Did Washington just have an actual weekend?

WASHINGTON — President Biden did not do anything this weekend.

Well, let's rephrase: Biden did not do anything alarming this weekend.

There were exactly eight tweets, each one rooted in what can best be described as reality. There was a visit to spend time with an ailing friend, Bob Dole, the former Republican senator. And there was a stop at church with the grandchildren.

Since Biden assumed office, the weekends have been portraits of domesticity — MarioKart with the kids at Camp David, bagels in Georgetown, and football in Delaware. A Peloton devotee, he has not even played golf. Biden’s demonstrable uninterest in generating audacious headlines only emphasizes how much the Trump-size hole in Washington has created a sense of free time in all realms of the capital. Psychically, if not literally.

Though the workload remains (this is still Washington, after all) people are grabbing a few more hours of sleep in the span of time formerly known as the weekend.

I still haven't broken the habit of checking for news obsessively every few hours.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:59 am

malchior wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:26 amIf we don't Whether or not we figure out a way to actually hold him accountable this time, for some small fraction of his clear country-threatening misdeeds, this system will be known as is already proven to be deeply flawed.

FTFY.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:18 am

Kraken wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:57 amI still haven't broken the habit of checking for news obsessively every few hours.

I stopped doing that immediately following Biden's inauguration. It was like a switch flipped in my head and I wasn't worried about crazy people doing crazy things from the highest office in the country.

I have returned to checking the news every day or two in order to catch up.