The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[Defiant]

Disneyland only has a couple of rides where you would scream maybe and one of them is inside, and I could understand it there.

Are you counting It's a Small World?

[Zaxxon]

Disneyland only has a couple of rides where you would scream maybe and one of them is inside, and I could understand it there.

Are you counting It's a Small World?

Those screams are silent and never-ending.

[Smoove_B]

But Smoove, how could a scream transmit on a roller coaster going so fast?? I'm just curious. Disneyland only has a couple of rides where you would scream maybe and one of them is inside, and I could understand it there. But all of Magic Mountain's coasters are outside, still not safe?

I think the concern would be any chance of someone screaming in front of you and that spit/saliva/mucous aerosolizing and you're flying face first through it - like if the person right in front of you was doing it. That being said, I'm not aware of any documented cases of that kind of transmission happening. I think the original request to scream inside your heart was based on confirmed transmission during singing events (not just COVID, but TB) and an abundance of caution. This could just be an extension of that - we can't say for sure it's highly unlikely (even though on paper it does seem like it), we just know the general conditions of screaming and/or singing do promote disease spread.

I'd love to see a study on this, but I doubt it'll ever happen. I could almost imagine the Mythbusters setting up a roller coaster car with a bunch of dummies and having one of the dummies spraying a red-tinted saliva through a hose to simulate yelling - just to see if any other dummies on the car get hit with the red spray.

The CDC does have a page for amusement parks, but it hasn't been updated since December and it doesn't have any guidance for screaming. Maybe it will be revised again soon because it's that time of year...

[Blackhawk]

I was imagining each person screaming and creating a small cloud of airborne fluids, increasing with each passing person, until the people in the back car have to scream through a snorkel.

[$iljanus]

Disneyland only has a couple of rides where you would scream maybe and one of them is inside, and I could understand it there.

Are you counting It's a Small World?

Those screams are silent and never-ending.

[The Meal]

MHS is active on Universal Studios social media, and has seen clips where they've stopped rides, partially completed, because their cameras caught riders with their masks taken off. Hopefully she comes in and shares the details.

[Lorini]

Disneyland only has a couple of rides where you would scream maybe and one of them is inside, and I could understand it there.

Are you counting It's a Small World?

No one goes on It's a Small World. They completely wrecked it.

[hitbyambulance]

saw this in the NYTimes:

The U.S. will send surplus doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine to Mexico and Canada.

[LawBeefaroni]

saw this in the NYTimes:

The U.S. will send surplus doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine to Mexico and Canada.

Best one to unload on our unsuspecting neighbours.

[El Guapo]

saw this in the NYTimes:

The U.S. will send surplus doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine to Mexico and Canada.

Best one to unload on our unsuspecting neighbours.

FWIW my understanding is that AstroZeneca is perfectly safe and effective (the European Medical Agency just said so, for one). But it's not yet approved in the U.S., and by the time it would get approved we'll have more than enough of the ones that are already approved, so makes sense to send our doses of it elsewhere.

Of course, good luck getting people to take it after the suspensions in Europe.

[Max Peck]

Also, each batch of AZ vaccine has a relatively short shelf life, on the order of months rather than years. IIRC, the first shipment to Canada from the EU included a batch that had to be used within a month before it expired. At some point, if the USA federal government is sitting on a stockpile of domestically produced AZ vaccine but is not ready to authorize it for use, it's a matter of either disposing of it as waste or disposing of it by sending/selling it to countries that are willing to use it.

[Lorini]

saw this in the NYTimes:

The U.S. will send surplus doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine to Mexico and Canada.

Best one to unload on our unsuspecting neighbours.

FWIW my understanding is that AstroZeneca is perfectly safe and effective (the European Medical Agency just said so, for one). But it's not yet approved in the U.S., and by the time it would get approved we'll have more than enough of the ones that are already approved, so makes sense to send our doses of it elsewhere.

Of course, good luck getting people to take it after the suspensions in Europe.

That's the kind of thing we'd expect of a normal administration and Trump wouldn't have even considered it. So happy we've moved on!!!!

[Blackhawk]

And Indiana is ending its mask mandate in two weeks.

/edit - and ending state-level limits on capacity. The Governor also said that he hopes schools will be open full time for the 2021/2022 school year, which means that, even as idiotic as the Redneck in Chief is, my kid's school district is even more idiotic (they've been all full time for probably six weeks now, meaning that their decision was significantly more reckless than even the state's recklessness.)

The good news is that they're opening up registration at 16+ in a week, and the only person in my family/household who doesn't already have an appointment (my son, 17) will be first in line .

After that? Fuck 'em. Let 'em burn it all down. I can't fight their stupidity anymore.

[malchior]

Indiana sounds crazy but I still haven't heard many COVID-19 school success stories. Here in NJ it is spotty at best. I had a conversation with my MIL yesterday about the school system she works in. Her HS has ~1500 students in the system. They are dragging in most of the staff for...at present ~90 students. That is total population of kids whose parents are willing to send them in. This is after multiple waves of shut downs for clusters in the school system. Some of the teachers refuse to come in and the kids are sent to the auditorium to be group supervised. She said they mostly play video games or sleep. The system had no plan when this hit. A year later they still have no plan. My MIL said when they do virtual conferences she hears stories like this all the time from other educators. This should be a scandal but apparently no one cares.

[Blackhawk]

I'm honestly running out of outrage. I've been fuming about this district for so long I don't remember not being stressed by them. Whether it was having to call in lawyers when they were doing 'chapel' in the gym to teach the 'real meaning' of Christmas in elementary school, or the way they screwed my son over on extracurriculars, or the fact that they don't have a single tech or computer class beyond typing, or the fact that they high school has canceled all of its language programs except Spanish, or the terrible teacher that turned my son, who was a near prodigy at math and did it for fun into somebody who despises math, or the fact that they went through three art teachers in one year because they wouldn't stop banging the students (to be fair, the third one didn't sleep with any students, he just had a habit of masturbating in public.) Or the way they underfund their academics in order to boost their sports teams.

Again, running out of energy to despise them with. I haven't been able to change any of it (except the church thing.) In one year my youngest graduates and it will be somebody else's problem. Again, if that's what people around here want, I'm to the point of walking away and letting them burn it all down.

[Isgrimnur]

[Smoove_B]

My MIL said when they do virtual conferences she hears stories like this all the time from other educators. This should be a scandal but apparently no one cares.

Nope. They just want their kids in school so they can go to work or get some peace and quiet. I suspect there's going to be a gigantic wave of teacher retirements after this school year ends in NJ - especially in communities that have been yelling for teachers to get back to work.

[Blackhawk]

I didn't say I didn't care. I didn't say it wasn't important. I didn't say it wouldn't have an effect on others. But after 13 years of non-stop struggling with this district with exactly one win and dozens of losses, I'm out of the fight. The people in that county want church in school. They want football to be more important than for'n languages or computers. They have no desire to address issues in higher mathematics or science (most will tell you that prior is useless, and the latter is dishonest.) They certainly don't want to modernize the curriculum.

I tried. I tried a lot. I talked to and communicated with teachers, staff, administrators. Nothing budged. I had meetings. I wrote letters. Nothing changed.

The only way things will be different here is if something happens at a federal level to force them to change. Then we can hope that the kids who graduate will be smarter than their parents and actually support change.

[Isgrimnur]

The smart ones leave.

[Blackhawk]

Which is why the towns around here are shrinking and dying. Both the town the school's in and the town I live in are at their lowest population in ~120 years. I've been here for 21 years now. I've had enough of championing common sense and respect for humanity in a place that would much rather roll back to 1950. It's someone else's turn. Or it's time for the town to finish dying.

[Zaxxon]

Or it's time for the town to finish dying.

Sure sounds like it's trying its damnedest.

[Isgrimnur]

[Jeff V]

The only way things will be different here is if something happens at a federal level to force them to change. Then we can hope that the kids who graduate will be smarter than their parents and actually support change.

Doesn't seem likely given the systematic stupidity being impressed upon them.

[ImLawBoy]

(to be fair, the third one didn't sleep with any students, he just had a habit of masturbating in public.)

I appreciate your commitment to fairness.

[hepcat]

Indiana sounds crazy but I still haven't heard many COVID-19 school success stories. Here in NJ it is spotty at best. I had a conversation with my MIL yesterday about the school system she works in. Her HS has ~1500 students in the system. They are dragging in most of the staff for...at present ~90 students. That is total population of kids whose parents are willing to send them in. This is after multiple waves of shut downs for clusters in the school system. Some of the teachers refuse to come in and the kids are sent to the auditorium to be group supervised. She said they mostly play video games or sleep. The system had no plan when this hit. A year later they still have no plan. My MIL said when they do virtual conferences she hears stories like this all the time from other educators. This should be a scandal but apparently no one cares.

To me, it seems like the republican leaders opening their states/dropping mask requirements are basically gambling. They want to be seen as hardcore Trumpers who want everything opened now and no masks, but they're doing it after a vaccine has started being administered. I feel like they're betting that the vaccine will be sufficient to stop any huge outbreak. It's a gamble they hope will pay off. However, if it blows up in their faces and an outbreak does occur, I have to wonder what their fallback plan is.

[Blackhawk]

I aim to please.

[malchior]

However, if it blows up in their faces and an outbreak does occur, I have to wonder what their fallback plan is.

I imagine it'd be blame it on Biden.

[Enough]

saw this in the NYTimes:

The U.S. will send surplus doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine to Mexico and Canada.

Best one to unload on our unsuspecting neighbours.

FWIW my understanding is that AstroZeneca is perfectly safe and effective (the European Medical Agency just said so, for one). But it's not yet approved in the U.S., and by the time it would get approved we'll have more than enough of the ones that are already approved, so makes sense to send our doses of it elsewhere.

Of course, good luck getting people to take it after the suspensions in Europe.

My Hungarian friend has stopped talking to me over my defense of taking the vaccine. She's stated she will never take any vaccine for COVID and this is an educated person that at least when I knew her embraced science. And the AZ vaccine fud paired with quick Sputnik vax has turned her into an anti-vaxxer.

[LordMortis]

I don't think there is a fallback plan. I think the idea has always been there is an acceptable casualty level. There is an acceptable enduring health risk level and we weren't ever close to exceeding it. That the cost of keeping the economy going is a democrat failure and the reduced access to .... caused worse sorts of death and enduring problems than blue state controlled one size fits all pandemic response.

The plan has always been to angrily concede when there is too much outcry at the results of doing nothing and then criticize the plan.

[LawBeefaroni]

saw this in the NYTimes:

The U.S. will send surplus doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine to Mexico and Canada.

Best one to unload on our unsuspecting neighbours.

FWIW my understanding is that AstroZeneca is perfectly safe and effective (the European Medical Agency just said so, for one). But it's not yet approved in the U.S., and by the time it would get approved we'll have more than enough of the ones that are already approved, so makes sense to send our doses of it elsewhere.

Of course, good luck getting people to take it after the suspensions in Europe.

Not that it's terrible, it's just the least effective and least tested.

[Smoove_B]

If I had to bet money, my guess is that this is how the state of NJ is going to encourage teachers to retire:

New Jersey’s schools will return to full in-person classes for the next school year and districts will not be allowed to offer virtual learning, even for parents who want that option due to ongoing COVID-19 concerns, Gov. Phil Murphy said Wednesday.

“As we’re sitting here now, no,” Murphy said during his latest coronavirus briefing in Trenton, responding to NJ Advance Media’s question about preserving that option even if districts are required to offer full in-person classes. “I want to unequivocal about this. We are expecting Monday through Friday, in-person, every school, every district. Obviously, if the world goes sideways, we have to revisit that. But as of this sitting, the answer is no.”

[Smoove_B]

And just because I'm reading the local news, apparently the NJ Patriot Party is trying to organize a maskless shopping event at a large mall over the weekend:

State Police Superintendent Col. Patrick Callahan said authorities have not yet sent guidance to local law enforcement or store owners on how to handle the matter, but he said he’s disappointed that businesses would have to worry.

“At a time when businesses have been struggling, to put them in a position they may have to close their doors seemed hard to fathom for us,” Callahan said during the state’s latest COVID-19 briefing in Trenton.

Murphy echoed his concern for mall security and staff.

“They’re not law enforcement,” the Democratic governor said of stores. “And to put them in a position — the overwhelming amount of whom have been doing the right thing for day in and day out now, for 13 months — to make them be the guy or gal at the door that has to say to some knucklehead who’s trying to make a political statement, ‘Actually, you can’t come in,’ therefore you lose the business, and/or you get into a confrontation, that’s the last thing we need right now.”

[LordMortis]

Is it any wonder the word patriot conjures distrust and/or disgust in me nowadays? I want the word back. Why don't you co-opt another word, like dunghole? Maybe egomanical? Or perhaps shitforbrains?

[YellowKing]

NC is going back to full in-person learning in a couple of weeks. There will still be a remote option for parents who choose it, though.

I don't see anything wrong with it if your state is doing OK numbers-wise. Remote learning has been a complete disaster, and kids are getting farther and farther behind. My kids have been in class four days a week for several months now, because they weren't learning anything remotely.

The problem is not kids going back per se, it's kids going back in states where the pandemic response has been so f***ed that sending them back introduces a high level of risk to everyone involved.

[Smoove_B]

I don't see anything wrong with it if your state is doing OK numbers-wise. Remote learning has been a complete disaster, and kids are getting farther and farther behind. My kids have been in class four days a week for several months now, because they weren't learning anything remotely.

Most of NJ is in the "high" designation for outbreak levels and last week our governor increased indoor dining and retail occupation levels.

Parents have been pushing for 5 day in person all day instruction since like April of last year and at the same time, these same communities refuse to follow recommendations for how to behave outside of school to minimize risk to everyone involved. There was a high school last week that had to send notification to parents after ~12 kids tested positive - all traced back to socializing outside of school, without masks. Add in that NJ teachers just became eligible to receive the vaccine on 3/15 and you have a state that hasn't been prioritizing in-person instruction at all.

I've repeated myself so many times on this issue; we collectively made a choice last summer and we still haven't learned.

[Isgrimnur]

You seem to think we have the capacity to learn.

[malchior]

I think many people have learned. We don't care because it'll probably hurt someone else.

[Smoove_B]

That's true - and a better representation of the situation. Particularly after the "your unvaccinated kids are like vaccinated grandparents" take last week on the Atlantic (from an economist). Even if you can get over ignoring the potential health impacts to your kids, completely ignoring the fact that a mildly asymptomatic child could be spreading the illness to other while you're on vacation (or doing anything) is the pinnacle of missing the entire point of all this. There's zero regard for business owners, restaurant workers, service industry employees, etc... that are risking their health because they don't have a choice. But your kid is just like a vaccinated grandparent, sure.

[Blackhawk]

Is it any wonder the word patriot conjures distrust and/or disgust in me nowadays? I want the word back.

And the flag, too, if you don't mind. I have a feeling that the word 'American' will be next in line.

[gbasden]

Is it any wonder the word patriot conjures distrust and/or disgust in me nowadays? I want the word back. Why don't you co-opt another word, like dunghole? Maybe egomanical? Or perhaps shitforbrains?

Patriot has been synonymous with right wing lunatic as long as I can remember. Maybe things were different up your way?