The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:37 pm

Yeah, it's making the rounds this morning in my circles. I missed it because I was getting my second shot of Moderna!

I don't want to boil the article down to the final quote, but it's so good. So good. I'll spoil it for those that want to get their themselves.

Spoiler:

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:36 pm

The outdoors had nothing to do with California/LA's outbreak. It had everything to do with too many people crowded into too small housing, and the need for those people to continue to work because there was no government safeguard for their wages. When you are living in a two bedroom apartment with 12 people living in it, and you are one of two people with a paycheck, you are going to work. Sick or not.

People do not understand the Latino/Black situation here in Los Angeles. Most of the low paid workers are in industries that require a lot of contact with the public. Half the time the owners of those industries could not be bothered to protect them. And even when they did, if you are living in a crowded apartment it only takes one person to infect 12 who go on to infect a lot more.

If all of those people could have worked outdoors, perhaps LA wouldn't have been the worst place in the country for Covid infections. There are 40,000 restaurants in the county of Los Angeles. All of those workers were at risk.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:09 pm

Vaccination exemption bill passes Tennessee Senate committee

NASHVILLE, TN (WSMV) - A bill that would prevent state or local authorities from requiring COVID-19 vaccinations is moving forward after passing a state Senate committee on Wednesday.

Senate bill 187 would prohibit anyone from requiring a person to be vaccinated for COVID-19.

yay us! We're so primitive.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:12 am

Well Emergent, the company that shit the bed with their component mixup in one of their J&J vaccine batches has had a few run ins with the FDA before. And it gets better...

Emergent’s $628 million Warp Speed deal was made as part of a long-standing contract between the company and the office in the Department for Health and Human Services (HHS) responsible for preparing for public health threats.

At the time of the award, that office was led by Assistant Secretary Robert Kadlec. The Post previously reported that before joining the Trump administration, Kadlec was paid as a consultant to Emergent and formed a start-up company with Emergent’s chairman. Kadlec did not mention either role in a questionnaire about his career that he completed for the Senate when it considered his nomination by Trump in 2017. Kadlec and Emergent previously told The Post that Kadlec’s past work for Emergent had no bearing on the firm’s government contracts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... nspection/

And this article goes into some detail about past problems. I don't think yeast is supposed to be one of the ingredients in a vaccine.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory ... s-76803904

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:16 pm

@Smoove_B - got another interesting field report from the Raritan mega-site. One of my wife's coworkers had a 1:00 PM appointment. He got his shot around...3:30. I'm glad access is improving but we still seem to have some significant issues here.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:52 pm

4.1M vaccinations administered yesterday - that's pretty good? over 1% of the US population in a single day.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:55 pm

hitbyambulance wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:52 pm 4.1M vaccinations administered yesterday - that's pretty good?

“It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:44 am

Vaccine cheat days are adding up:

But across the country, states are rushing to lift mask mandates, tolerance for physical distancing is flagging, and vaccinated people are amending the new guidelines as they see fit. Some, like our would-be dinner-party hosts, are planning mixed-vaccination events, and pushing the boundaries of what makes a gathering “small.” Others are holding birthday bashes, or starting to creep back to in-person work. People are also shaving time off the two-week period that the CDC advises waiting after the final shot, so that immunity can mature. “What difference is a few days going to make?” a friend asked me the other day.

Amid all the fudging, that sentiment is starting to become a constant refrain: Really, what’s the harm?

The harm is, frankly, mathematical. Over time, our vaccine cheat days start to add up. It might truly be innocuous for a few people to cut a couple of corners on occasion. But eventually, a series of flubs will allow exposures, which will in turn beget disease. Our shortcuts also signal to others that it’s okay to chill out when it is very much not.

Stay vigilant!

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:00 am

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:44 am Vaccine cheat days are adding up:

But across the country, states are rushing to lift mask mandates, tolerance for physical distancing is flagging, and vaccinated people are amending the new guidelines as they see fit. Some, like our would-be dinner-party hosts, are planning mixed-vaccination events, and pushing the boundaries of what makes a gathering “small.” Others are holding birthday bashes, or starting to creep back to in-person work. People are also shaving time off the two-week period that the CDC advises waiting after the final shot, so that immunity can mature. “What difference is a few days going to make?” a friend asked me the other day.

Amid all the fudging, that sentiment is starting to become a constant refrain: Really, what’s the harm?

The harm is, frankly, mathematical. Over time, our vaccine cheat days start to add up. It might truly be innocuous for a few people to cut a couple of corners on occasion. But eventually, a series of flubs will allow exposures, which will in turn beget disease. Our shortcuts also signal to others that it’s okay to chill out when it is very much not.
Stay vigilant!

There’s a sound immunological reason for waiting two weeks since that’s the time needed for educating the immune system to mount a robust response when challenged. People who start shaving time off are wasting a gift that unvaccinated people like my wife and I would love to have received.

I’m gonna be pretty pissed if I or my wife get Covid when we’re so close to getting our vaccinations...or maybe not so close since who knows about even getting an appointment even though we’re eligible starting today in MA.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:02 am

Don’t spike the football at the 2 yard line!

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:05 am

Anecdotally I heard at least 4-5 people in our friend's circle who basically got the 2nd shot and then acted like they were 100% immune immediately. We actually got guilt tripped about not coming to Easter dinner yesterday with a bunch of unvaccinated folks. We're vigilant but for us we feel like we're the only ones.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:09 am

I had my first in-person board game session over the weekend with a couple of fully vaccinated friends. Felt real good. Hopefully within the next month or two I'll be able to start doing this more often.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:24 am

malchior wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:05 am We're vigilant but for us we feel like we're the only ones.

I know someone else in NJ that is super ultra vigilant.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:39 am

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:24 am
malchior wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:05 am We're vigilant but for us we feel like we're the only ones.
I know someone else in NJ that is super ultra vigilant.

You're at a whole different level. Haha.

raydude · Post by **raydude** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:32 am

malchior wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:05 am Anecdotally I heard at least 4-5 people in our friend's circle who basically got the 2nd shot and then acted like they were 100% immune immediately. We actually got guilt tripped about not coming to Easter dinner yesterday with a bunch of unvaccinated folks. We're vigilant but for us we feel like we're the only ones.

Jesus is all about forgiveness. You can go visit them next Easter.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:13 pm

Another data point that's going to be difficult to overcome:

Lauri Armstrong, a Bible-believing nutritionist outside of Dallas, said she did not need the vaccine because God designed the body to heal itself, if given the right nutrients. More than that, she said, “It would be God’s will if I am here or if I am not here.”

The deeply held spiritual convictions or counterfactual arguments may vary. But across white evangelical America, reasons not to get vaccinated have spread as quickly as the virus that public health officials are hoping to overcome through herd immunity.

...

There are about 41 million white evangelical adults in the U.S. About 45 percent said in late February that they would not get vaccinated against Covid-19, making them among the least likely demographic groups to do so, according to the Pew Research Center.

“If we can’t get a significant number of white evangelicals to come around on this, the pandemic is going to last much longer than it needs to,” said Jamie Aten, founder and executive director of the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College, an evangelical institution in Illinois.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:48 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:13 pm Another data point that's going to be difficult to overcome:

Lauri Armstrong, a Bible-believing nutritionist outside of Dallas, said she did not need the vaccine because God designed the body to heal itself, if given the right nutrients. More than that, she said, “It would be God’s will if I am here or if I am not here.”

The deeply held spiritual convictions or counterfactual arguments may vary. But across white evangelical America, reasons not to get vaccinated have spread as quickly as the virus that public health officials are hoping to overcome through herd immunity.

...

There are about 41 million white evangelical adults in the U.S. About 45 percent said in late February that they would not get vaccinated against Covid-19, making them among the least likely demographic groups to do so, according to the Pew Research Center.

“If we can’t get a significant number of white evangelicals to come around on this, the pandemic is going to last much longer than it needs to,” said Jamie Aten, founder and executive director of the Humanitarian Disaster Institute at Wheaton College, an evangelical institution in Illinois.

As a Christian, I’d like to gently remind Lauri that Jesus’ greatest commandment to His followers is to love your neighbor and don’t be an asshole towards them. (I added the last part for clarity) Spreading your bullshit (and probably COVID-19 as a result) is not loving your neighbor.

That said we have to figure out strategies on how to change more people’s minds on this. Or at least let’s get vaccines into more willing arms. Like my arm!

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:58 pm

I'd remind her God gave everyone a brain so they could think for themselves and not depend on him to wipe their ass. Unfortunately a lot of folk don't use theirs.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:24 pm

An immediate family member not in my household or state tested positive ~2 weeks ago. Individual was given convalescent plasma and responded strongly, going home the next day. I learned that this past week this individual went on vacation to Coral Gables.

My wife had to say goodbye to her grandfather over the phone just over a week ago and my kids spent spring break in the house.

This will make for interesting talk over Thanksgiving dinner. Whenever that happens.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:11 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:24 pm An immediate family member not in my household or state tested positive ~2 weeks ago. Individual was given convalescent plasma and responded strongly, going home the next day. I learned that this past week this individual went on vacation to Coral Gables.

My wife had to say goodbye to her grandfather over the phone just over a week ago and my kids spent spring break in the house.

This will make for interesting talk over Thanksgiving dinner. Whenever that happens.

Ugh. Condolences.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:33 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:11 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:24 pm An immediate family member not in my household or state tested positive ~2 weeks ago. Individual was given convalescent plasma and responded strongly, going home the next day. I learned that this past week this individual went on vacation to Coral Gables.

My wife had to say goodbye to her grandfather over the phone just over a week ago and my kids spent spring break in the house.

This will make for interesting talk over Thanksgiving dinner. Whenever that happens.
Ugh. Condolences.

Thanks. The grandfather was in hospice, so not a surprise but we would have been there in normal times. They knew it was happening.

But yeah, wife is extremely pissed with family member and I'm stuck trying to see both sides. Not smart or responsible but if the airlines and Florida allow it, what can I say?

Seems like all the bad government decisions in this are all about ringing that cash register.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:08 pm

Zarathud wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:02 am Don’t spike the football at the 2 yard line!

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:43 am

Well, now I know why NJ randomly announced a change in vaccination plans yesterday, and dramatically expanded eligibility.

President Joe Biden is set to announce that he’s shaving about two weeks off his May 1 deadline for states to make all adults eligible for coronavirus vaccines.

An administration official confirms with NewsNation that Biden plans to announce that every adult in the U.S. will be eligible to be vaccinated by April 19. Biden will make the announcement at the White House on Tuesday following a visit to a vaccination site in Virginia.

Biden is also expected to announce that 150 million doses have been put into people’s arms since his inauguration on Jan. 20. That puts the president well on track to meet his new goal of 200 million shots administered by April 30 — his 100th day in office.

Biden’s original goal had been 100 million shots in arms by the end of his first 100 days.

The announcement about vaccine eligibility is somewhat symbolic and comes as states already were moving up their deadlines from the original May 1 goal. It also comes as a flood of vaccine supply is being sent to states this week.

As of yesterday in NJ, 55+ could be vaccinated. Magically in 14 days, we're going to start with everyone over the age of 18.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:20 am

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:43 amAs of yesterday in NJ, 55+ could be vaccinated. Magically in 14 days, we're going to start with everyone over the age of 18.

I'm sure everything will go smoothly, as it has so far.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:22 am

One would think the states would have figured it out by now? California has, at least in LA County (we do cheat a little as we have a lot of huge parking lots available).

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:25 am

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:20 am I'm sure everything will go smoothly, as it has so far.

I can only hope national media picks up on the unmitigated disaster I'm expecting. Granted, the actual vaccination process *seems* better (malchior's story from last week is an outlier from what I've been hearing). "All adults over the age of 18" is the first category my wife fits into, so I'll have first-hand knowledge on how long it will take from when she's eligible to when she's actually fully vaccinated - which I think it's going to be be the issue.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:05 am

FWIW Massachusetts has said that all adults will be eligible by no later than the 19th. I believe it took about a week or so from when I became eligible to when I got a text from the MA preregistration site to make an appointment (which was then scheduled for a few days after I got the text). So my rough expectation is that my wife will have an appointment by the end of April, which would likely put her in line to get a second shot in late May / early June.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:36 am

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:25 am "All adults over the age of 18" is the first category my wife fits into, so I'll have first-hand knowledge on how long it will take from when she's eligible to when she's actually fully vaccinated - which I think it's going to be be the issue.

When Texas announced opening it to everyone, about a week before it was effective, I added myself to the waitlist in my county (Denton, pop ~900k) the next day and a couple days later, 4 days prior to the order going into effect got an email and text saying I had an appt for 8am on Day 3 at the local megasite.

I have a bunch of coworkers that are trying to find slots at various pharmacies and such so they don't have to drive to the megasites. *shrug* our employer gives us 4 hours PTO per shot so the drive doesn't bother me. The fact that they were so quick I didn't miss any work DID bother me though!

Anyhow, it's just a thought. Y'all have a good day.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:19 pm

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:46 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:25 am
Zaxxon wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:20 am I'm sure everything will go smoothly, as it has so far.
I can only hope national media picks up on the unmitigated disaster I'm expecting. Granted, the actual vaccination process *seems* better (malchior's story from last week is an outlier from what I've been hearing).

Yeah that was one guy. I don't have any insight into what the circumstance were and it could have been one day. I expect there is a quite a lot of variance since we decided to federate our vaccine delivery.

"All adults over the age of 18" is the first category my wife fits into, so I'll have first-hand knowledge on how long it will take from when she's eligible to when she's actually fully vaccinated - which I think it's going to be be the issue.

Indeed. I thought I saw some note about 16+ on April 19th which should nicely melt down all the registration sites again.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:23 pm

We're doing 2,000 per week, limited only by supply.

Fretmute · Post by **Fretmute** » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:18 pm

coopasonic wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:36 amWhen Texas announced opening it to everyone, about a week before it was effective, I added myself to the waitlist in my county (Denton, pop ~900k) the next day and a couple days later, 4 days prior to the order going into effect got an email and text saying I had an appt for 8am on Day 3 at the local megasite.

I have a bunch of coworkers that are trying to find slots at various pharmacies and such so they don't have to drive to the megasites. *shrug* our employer gives us 4 hours PTO per shot so the drive doesn't bother me. The fact that they were so quick I didn't miss any work DID bother me though!

I got an email this morning saying that they're doing two batches this week at work, and I'm signed up for 3:00 tomorrow. That was a pleasant surprise.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:24 pm

So I get a text from the state informing me I am being tracked to make sure I get my second dose in a timely fashion. Why couldn't they be this involved to help me get my first dose in a (comparatively) timely fashion. Healthy 20 years olds not in functions we consider imperative in the same area were being contacted by providers go get their shots before I could track down a lucky spot in someone else area, hurting their local ability but the state are suddenly interested enough to let me know they don't want me screw up my second shot... or else?

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:30 pm

Indiana's mask mandate lifted today. Wal-Mart still officially requires shoppers to have masks. I had to swing by the local store to pick up some water today.

I'd estimate that about 40% of the people I saw were wearing masks. All of the employees were, of course, including the employee wearing a confederate flag mask (which I reported to their ethics hotline when I got home.)

Whada woild.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:32 pm

This made me LOL

https://twitter.com/RepDonBeyer/status/ ... 8296075269

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:14 pm

Nearby town is doing vaccination clinics through their fire dept, and I was still signed up for their email notifications. So I get an email this morning that they are opening up appointments for tomorrow, and a link to the town's webpage to sign up. The town's entire web site has crashed and hasn't been up since this morning. Clearly someone didn't think this through.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:41 am

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:30 pm Indiana's mask mandate lifted today. Wal-Mart still officially requires shoppers to have masks. I had to swing by the local store to pick up some water today.

I'd estimate that about 40% of the people I saw were wearing masks. All of the employees were, of course, including the employee wearing a confederate flag mask (which I reported to their ethics hotline when I got home.)

Whada woild.

I hope he and his supervisor are fired. Here in LA I've not gone to a Walmart/Target/grocery store where everyone wasn't masked. On the other hand, taking my dog to the groomers and they weren't masked. Won't be going back to them again.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:29 pm

I hope that bypassing the usual 'feedback' pit at Wal-Mart (which just relays the feedback to the local store) and going directly to their national ethics site will result in a better response. Of course, I'm unlikely to ever know the outcome, but I did what I could.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:58 am

Trump appointees in the Health and Human Services department last year privately touted their efforts to block or alter scientists’ reports on the coronavirus to more closely align with then-President Donald Trump’s more optimistic messages about the outbreak, according to newly released documents from congressional investigators.

The documents provide further insight into how senior Trump officials approached last year’s explosion of coronavirus cases in the United States. Even as career government scientists worked to combat the virus, a cadre of Trump appointees were attempting to blunt the scientists’ messages, edit their findings and equip the president with an alternate set of talking points.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... erference/

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:45 am

I'm waiting to see more analysis, but this is the first piece I've come across that is starting to put the puzzle pieces together:

https://twitter.com/DrAliSKhan/status/1 ... 9662662656

Disturbing forecast that US may be hitting #CovidVaccine wall and we will a shift in vaccine vs supply by end of month with only 52% vaccinated by July. Also, rural, Republican-heavy states are likely blowing through their vaccine-eager populations.

I know it's something I've been mentioning since the vaccinations started , and if this is accurate...trouble.