Police Reform in America

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:16 pm

I really dislike that DAs are elected in so many places. It is one of the drivers of the incredibly bad behavior they enable.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:17 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:13 pm Paxton has his own problems not related to the election.

Sure, but if that video is to be believed, McMahon has problems not related to reelection as well.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:06 pm

NYPD is out there winning hearts and minds.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:31 pm

Buzzfeed

A New York police officer was suspended Sunday after he was caught on video repeatedly saying "Trump 2020" on his patrol car's loudspeaker while on duty in a Brooklyn neighborhood.

The New York Police Department (NYPD) did not identify the officer but said that he had been suspended without pay.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:08 pm

This is insane. Training materials used by the Kentucky State Police quoted from Adolf Hitler and sought to develop a “killer” mentality in troopers:

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:55 pm

This is an extreme example but this illustrates a fundamental difference between warrior and guardian paradigms for training officers.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:17 pm

Another edition of 'Pull out that fainting couch'...

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:23 pm

I'm hearing that there will be a huge wave of retirements in Chicago. Like 3x or more the usual. This means either a manpower shortage or mass hiring of very underqualfied, inexperienced new cops. And they always get stuck on the worst beats.

Also had some social time with a young cop in my district. He's oving to California and said I know a lot of other non-retiring coppers who are seriously considering something similar.

Also, also, have been talking with the alderman and some park district people on an unrelated issue and they explained how a neighboring alderman instructed CPD not to patrol a certain area because the residents "don't like to see cops driving around." Surprise, it's a high crime area and the location of 2 well known drug houses.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:37 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:23 pm I'm hearing that there will be a huge wave of retirements in Chicago. Like 3x or more the usual. This means either a manpower shortage or mass hiring of very underqualfied, inexperienced new cops. And they always get stuck on the worst beats.

Also had some social time with a young cop in my district. He's oving to California and said I know a lot of other non-retiring coppers who are seriously considering something similar.

Also, also, have been talking with the alderman and some park district people on an unrelated issue and they explained how a neighboring alderman instructed CPD not to patrol a certain area because the residents "don't like to see cops driving around." Surprise, it's a high crime area and the location of 2 well known drug houses.

This is the other side of the coin. The NY Times article covers a little of this 'under siege' mentality. The police naturally dispute the report. Still there is a lot of documentation of them out of control. In the end, the cultures of these departments are toxic and poisonous. But we need to fix them. Throw this on the pile of messes we have to deal with. It really feels bottomless.

This also managed to find a new way to make me loathe DeBlasio. He pretty much said 'I fucked this up' but it's a weak ass apology. He knew what was going on. Everything in this report was widely reported. He was too much of a coward to face off against the police.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:57 pm

CNN

Rusten Sheskey will not face charges in the shooting of Jacob Blake, Kenosha County District Attorney Michael Graveley announced Tuesday.

Sheskey, a White officer, shot Blake, a 29-year-old Black man, seven times in the back while responding to a domestic incident on August 23, 2020. Blake survived the shooting but was left paralyzed from the waist down.
...
Ahead of the decision, Kenosha officials prepared for potential unrest, with the City Council granting Mayor John Antaramian emergency powers once the announcement is made.

Wisconsin Gov. Tony Evers also announced Monday he is mobilizing 500 National Guard troops ahead of the decision at the request of local officials.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:00 pm

I'm not surprised. I wouldn't be too surprised either way, honestly.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:33 pm

Remember when the police shoved an elderly man backwards when he approached some police in Buffalo? He fell, hit his head, and was nearly killed - this was back over the summer. No charges after a grand jury cleared them.

Edit: Reading comments on multiple articles and I see the same things over and over. The man is a 'professional instigator'. 'He had it coming for being out after curfew'. There are just so many deplorable comments. I feel like we're trapped in an insane asylum. I can't shake the feeling that this must have been what Germany felt like in the 30s. You know something dark is brewing but it just hasn't manifested itself fully yet.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:38 pm

Police killed yet another black man yesterday. Pulled over for an outstanding misdemeanor warrant, Daunte Wright tried to get back in his car during the stop and was killed. Police are claiming that the officer "mistakenly" pulled out her gun instead of her taser and shot him. BULL SHIT.

The Police Chief then just up and left the news conference mid-question.

At an absolute minimum, a cop who can't tell the difference between their gun and their taser has no fucking business whatsoever being a cop. Why either was deployed in the first place is baffling, yet completely unsurprising.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:45 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:38 pma cop who can't tell the difference between their gun and their taser has no fucking business whatsoever being a cop.

SO very much of this. If she doesn't face formal charges they had better prepare for a lot more protests.

The fact there was a protest in one area and looting in another will give the right another chance to conjoin the protestors and looters. Which also pisses me off.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:49 pm

That situation is horrible. "Accidental discharge". Always with the neutral discussion when the police kill a civilian. Anyway, beyond the usual bullshit word games I actually meant to talk about this because in the bigger scale this is in the Minneapolis suburbs that is already on edge from the Chauvin trial. The trial judge already saw a motion to sequester the jury which was denied. So we have another tragic shooting in a place where nerves are raw. Last night was the now all too familiar scene of a peaceful protest that became violent after dark with widespread opportunistic crimes nearby as well.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:57 pm

this is in the Minneapolis suburbs

That was the first thing I heard on the news this morning and I just can't see how this can go on. It's bad enough when it's happening in the whole US. But when "his name is George Floyd" is still fresh enough to be considered to be current.... I got nuthin'.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:15 pm

I just saw the video. It is unsurprisingly a shit show. An officer is in the middle of cuffing him, the shooter steps in and interrupts them, which gives the the guy an opportunity to wiggle free and jump in his car, she waves the pistol around, yells 'taser taser taser', shoots him, and then says, "I shot him" in surprise. What a flipping idiot. She was tunneled badly on him and seemingly didn't realize what was in her hand. It wasn't quick. She wielded it for a good few seconds.

Jaymon · Post by **Jaymon** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:16 pm

What is the chance there will be no bodycam footage available? My magic police ball tells me its 100%

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:17 pm

Jaymon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:16 pm What is the chance there will be no bodycam footage available? My magic police ball tells me its 100%

I just saw it. It's available. It certainly looks like she fired the wrong weapon and didn't realize it. That being said, calling it accidental is way too nice. The word they should look for is negligent.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:24 pm

Fox News with the "not even attempting to hide it anymore" award for today.

Fox News correspondent: "When you have something like an accidental discharge people aren't going to say that it's justified and they are still going to default to the belief that black lives matter, and they think that black people are treated somehow otherwise."

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:31 pm

If google is to believed accidental discharge may actually be the right term. Now, how it's being portrayed to euphemize what happened... If they editorial of the Fox head said

"When you have something like a cop pulling the wrong weapon for reasons yet to be understood which led to the needless use of deadly force, people aren't going to say that it's justified and they are still going to default to the belief that black lives matter, and they think that black people are treated somehow otherwise."

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:35 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:31 pmIf google is to believed accidental discharge may actually be the right term.

The word accident is used because it implies there is no one to blame. There is definitely someone to blame way more here.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:47 pm

One of the first things I learned in firearms training is that there are no accidental discharges. There intentional discharges and there are negligent discharges. Guns don't go off by themselves. Certainly not any modern firearm carried by MPD.

MPD has shown severe lack of training, I put this on an unprepared, improperly trained officer. Remember the shooting of Justine Diamond? That was in the wake of Castile and their poor training ("fast track" was the MPD euphemism IIRC) was exposed. Nothing changed. And we have seen it several times since.

(By "training" I don't just mean firearms. I mean proper police training including de-escalation, pain compliance, first aid, law, all the stuff that is supposed to make them professional keepers of the peace)

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:25 pm

Googles first hit.

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/ ... wyers.html

The snips

What is an Accidental Discharge of a Firearm?

An accidental discharge of a firearm, also known as an unintentional discharge of a firearm, is defined as discharging the firearm at a time not intended by the firearm user. In cases of accidental discharge, individuals may be injured and/or property may be damaged.

How Does an Accidental Discharge Occur?

An accidental discharge occurs when an individual handling a firearm is negligent and fires the weapon unintentionally. Negligence is a legal term meaning a failure to use reasonable care under the circumstances. This may include pointing a weapon the individual knows is loaded at individuals or property.

Negligence (and/or recklessness is implied)

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:28 pm

"Accidental" is misleading regardless. I assume it's the preferred term for defense attorneys and negligent shooters.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:32 pm

Reminds me of Driver's Ed when the teachers used to tell us, "There's no such thing as an accident. It's a collision."

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:42 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:28 pm "Accidental" is misleading regardless. I assume it's the preferred term for defense attorneys and negligent shooters.

Concurred. From google standpoint, it is still the correct term even if it seems like an excuse for euphemism to me. I bet when used in the report the subject is also removed from the description as well rather than referring to the officer by name, the event is only described as "the accidental discharge of a firearm..."

The worst to me, because I expect it from the psuedo-military way the police like to present themselves and the leglese from which they are expected to operate, but the worst to me, would be the Fox New running with the police description precisely because it removes the subject and the negligence of the officer that got someone (presumably at this point) needlessly killed.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:46 pm

People on reddit are saying that she was the senior officer on the scene. Treat that as rumor, though - I haven't found any source yet to back it up. I also don't know how relevant that is in regards to "fast tracking."

I'm no expert, but can you really train someone to not make mistakes when the adrenaline kicks in? I'm sure training can help, but it seems like redesigning the taser might help more.

Picture of gun and taser.

As Lawbeef points out, the taser is already substantially different than the pistol, but they do both share the same basic firing mechanism. (trigger pull) What if we made the taser use a thumb button, or an inverted trigger, or something like that? So that IF you ever pull your pistol thinking it's your taser and try to fire it...nothing happens?

Either way, what a mess.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:51 pm

Huh.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:56 pm

You pull it and wonder why your taser weighs 4 times what it is supposed to weigh? Adrenaline is the excuse.

For instance, a fully loaded Glock handgun — which is typically carried by officers — weighs in excess of 34 ounces, according to the gunmaker’s home page.

By comparison, a Taser stun gun weighs 8 ounces, the company’s site said.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:27 pm

If one of us had accidentally shot someone we would have been charged with manslaughter at the very least. We shall see how this handled by a police state with double standards on everything.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:45 pm

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:27 pm If one of us had accidentally shot someone we would have been charged with manslaughter at the very least. We shall see how this handled by a police state with double standards on everything.

I'll give you a preview. Nothing happens. Maybe she gets fired. Even then, in 6 months an arbitrator will give her the job back. As they said on SNL this weekend about the Chauvin trial - "we've seen this movie before".

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:18 pm

coopasonic wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:56 pm You pull it and wonder why your taser weighs 4 times what it is supposed to weigh? Adrenaline is the excuse.

For instance, a fully loaded Glock handgun — which is typically carried by officers — weighs in excess of 34 ounces, according to the gunmaker’s home page.

By comparison, a Taser stun gun weighs 8 ounces, the company’s site said.

It's supposed to be holstered on the other side of the duty belt too. Haven't seen the footage but I assume that's the case here. There are several visual and tactile indicators but in a high stress situation your fine motor skills go to shit. Which is why you insert gross motor skill safety measures. Like having to draw the taser on the opposite side of your body.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:41 pm

Officer who did the shooting and the Police Chief have both resigned.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:43 pm

It'll be interesting to see where they re-emerge 6 months from now, after we've had another 2-3 big profile shootings elsewhere in America and the media isn't laser focused on this one anymore.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:53 pm

#MAGA is having a massive freakout that the officer in the Wright shooting was named and "forced out" of her job. Why? They seems to be indicating this is a massive overreaction because Daunte Wright was black. In contrast, they are upset that we still don't know who "murdered" Ashli Babbitt. Seriously.

Edit: A taste of the American white supremecist flavor.

Freyland · Post by **Freyland** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:01 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:41 pm Officer who did the shooting and the Police Chief have both resigned.

From the article,

On Tuesday afternoon, workers were erecting metal fencing in front of Ms. Potter’s home in Champlin, a town a few miles away from Brooklyn Center. Ms. Potter lives in a planned community dotted with large multilevel houses with green curated lawns. Paper no parking signs lined the street near her home.

Does anyone see the value of explicitly describing the residence of the officer involved in the shooting? Seems like "home" should have been the last word in that particular paragraph.

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:34 pm

Freyland wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:01 pm
From the article,

On Tuesday afternoon, workers were erecting metal fencing in front of Ms. Potter’s home in Champlin, a town a few miles away from Brooklyn Center. Ms. Potter lives in a planned community dotted with large multilevel houses with green curated lawns. Paper no parking signs lined the street near her home.
Does anyone see the value of explicitly describing the residence of the officer involved in the shooting? Seems like "home" should have been the last word in that particular paragraph.

Agreed - there is no reason to help dox the woman. Sending a mob after her helps nobody.

Little Raven · Post by **Little Raven** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:56 pm

If police cannot be reformed...what does that leave us?

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:16 pm

Little Raven wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:56 pm

If police cannot be reformed...what does that leave us?

No police? No jail? No military? Genius!!!
A return to the Wild Wild West. Every man for himself!!!
YEE HAW!!!!!