COVID-19 treatment and vaccine update thread

[Lorini]

I always like hearing about Hawaii . They try to stay safe.

just a tiny volcano eruption by the largest active volcano in the world. I'll stay here and watch from afar

[Lorini]

El Guapo, I don't know if this is your area of law, but if someone gets Covid at a gym where the gym didn't enforce masking or vaccinations would the gym be liable?

[Zaxxon]

I think the fear is you've now opened the door for the lifting of mask mandates for businesses (since nobody is going to be enforcing vaccination cards, it's not happening). The vaccinated people will be fine, but now Target will be filled with a bunch of unmasked, unvaccinated people passing it around to each other, which opens the door for spread and mutation.

I'm assuming people smarter than me have crunched the numbers and calculated that the risk is low enough that it's worth letting the unvaccinated take a hit. They're counting on enough unvaccinated people to "do the right thing" and continue to wear a mask which puts a lot more faith in them than I have.

However, I'm also not a fan of dragging out restrictions forever on people who did do the right thing.

WalMart drops masks for vaccinated associates and customers (honor system, cause 'Murica) and offers all employees $75 to get the jab(s). (Not honor syst, cause 'Murica).

[LawBeefaroni]

I don't understand the problem. If you are vaccinated, you will be fine and have a very, very low risk of spreading anything you might catch and not know about. Everyone else has made their bed and can sleep in it.

If that bed they're sleeping in is a hospital bed on a COVID ward, we all get to pay for the burden of their bad choices.

The financial cost of that hospital bed is immaterial for society, though. The spread across society is what matters.

I wouldn't say it's immaterial. It's almost like there are multiple reasons that the "I'll take my chances, doesn't hurt anyone else" approach is wrong.

[Blackhawk]

So it's true - there isn't a United States level vaccination database, but there could be.

Could have been. It's too late now if there isn't data to feed into it (although it seems like a good bullet point when prepping for the next pandemic.)

[Kraken]

They asked and reminded me so many times of my 2nd appointment date. They saw SO many cancels and missed ones I think they thought Id chicken out too.

That's sad. In MA, fewer than 1% are skipping our second shots.

[Skinypupy]

Got my second shot today.

Sore arm and kinda achy in general, but the relief is palpable.

[dbt1949]

Got my second shot 52 years ago.

[FishPants]

Ontario is a continuing cluster fuck with Doug Ford not listening to medical professionals -- I won't be surprised if some day down the road we find out that the misinformation around astrazeneca wasn't sponsored by Pfizer; it's getting ridiculous. First the boomers won't take AZ, then GenXers get the call to use it before it's gone and we do in record time, now they are saying that there's risk of blood clots and maybe your second dose might be Pfizer instead.

Sorry, when the fuck did I sign up to be a drug study? I'm not taking anything other than a damn AZ shot for my second round. I read an interesting medical study that I have access to on ScienceDirect (through the graduate program I am enrolled in, I get access) that looked at blood clot ratios in the Dutch population in 18-65 year olds before Covid, and the same demographic after the AZ shots (normalized to 5MM in population).

The result? ZERO CHANGE. Not a single % point of relevance in either direction from naturally occurring clots - yet somehow this now is a problem here again and people are fucking vaccine shopping again. The good news is my kids will both have a dose in their arm by the end of May, and we are done with lockdown regardless of what the government tries to push. Had some people over for a fire in the backyard last night (All vaxxed, yes it's against the shutdown order - and I don't give AF anymore).

This past 15 months has been a brutal mismanagement at all levels in Canada, our chief medical officer is trying to tell Canadians we need to hit 75% vaccination before any changes will be permitted -- as if; wait until May 2-4 weekend to see what happens around the country. It's time for some civil disobedience, we can't continue to sit on our hands and wait indefinitely to resume our lives once jabbed; the US and UK have proven vaccines work and break the chain of transmission.

[raydude]

At my wife's practice, the doctor/owner of the practice held a meeting yesterday. He announced that, per CDC guidance, they'll no longer be taking patients' temperatures at the door and suggested the staff doesn't have to wear masks. My wife pointed out that one of the front office people still isn't vaccinated. "Well then she made a choice, she'll have to wear her mask", he responded. We both agreed that wasn't good optics when the only African American in the practice is the only one wearing a mask.

Not to mention the fact that they can't trust that patients follow the honor system of not wearing a mask when vaccinated. I asked her to please keep wearing her mask in the office as long as they get patients who question that the virus exists (she's been asked that question periodically) and more importantly keep wearing it until our 9-year-old is able to get vaccinated. She agrees, for the same reasons.

As for our family, we'll still be wearing masks in stores and libraries and I'm still not comfortable eating indoors in restaurants. I'm still debating on our family policy when we take our summer trip to VA Beach but I'm leaning towards masks on while outside because I saw a lot of maskless people there last year, and something tells me I can't trust those people are vaccinated this year. I'll feel a lot safer when the 9-year old is able to get her vaccine.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Didn’t the CDC guidelines specially point out that the new guidelines aren’t meant for healthcare facilities?

[Zaxxon]

Didn’t the CDC guidelines specially point out that the new guidelines aren’t meant for healthcare facilities?

They did.

[Skinypupy]

Got my second shot today.

Sore arm and kinda achy in general, but the relief is palpable.

Was hoping I’d be in the clear, but this vaccine has hit me like a truck today. Got a fever and every part of my body - from my teeth to my toes - just aches horribly.

If this is even a fraction of what full-blown COVID feels like, I’m considering myself incredibly grateful I avoided it.

[Daehawk]

Its weird how this vaccine affects everyone in such extreme ways from nothing to super sick. Other than allergic reactions you dont hear that about the flu shots.

[Max Peck]

People do have a variety of symptomatic reactions to flu shots. You just don't see wall-to-wall media coverage and endless discussion about flu shots.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Its weird how this vaccine affects everyone in such extreme ways from nothing to super sick. Other than allergic reactions you dont hear that about the flu shots.

We don't routinely vaccinate those previously infected by the flu with the flu vaccine. But there's no doubt we are vaccinating plenty of people who were previously infected with the coronavirus, albeit perhaps unknowingly and completely asymptomatically. In which case they would predictably possess some degree of natural immune response and antibodies to fight the virus, hence the more intense side effects when they receive the coronavirus vaccine as compared to someone with no previous exposure to the virus:

Some COVID Vaccine Side Effects May Indicate You Were Once Infected, Study Suggests

BOSTON (CBS) – There are certain side effects from the COVID-19 vaccine that may indicate a person was at one time infected with the coronavirus, according to a new study.

The study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, surveyed almost 1,000 health care workers in the U.K. after they received their first Pfizer vaccine.

After vaccination, about four-percent of those previously infected with the coronavirus developed swollen lymph nodes compared to only one-percent of people without known previous infection.

Those previously infected were also more likely to report fever, muscle pain, and fatigue. Pain at the injection site and GI symptoms were about the same in both groups. And the interval between the time of infection and time of vaccination did not appear to be a factor.

But as a reminder, if you’ve had COVID-19 in the past, you still need to get vaccinated. And even though you may develop side effects, those side effects tend to be mild to moderate and last only 24-48 hours.

[Rumpy]

Ontario is a continuing cluster fuck with Doug Ford not listening to medical professionals -- I won't be surprised if some day down the road we find out that the misinformation around astrazeneca wasn't sponsored by Pfizer; it's getting ridiculous. First the boomers won't take AZ, then GenXers get the call to use it before it's gone and we do in record time, now they are saying that there's risk of blood clots and maybe your second dose might be Pfizer instead.

Yeah, it's been weird watching it develop. If anything, it's creating some uncertainty and distrust in the system. Not to mention anxiety for those who've had the AZ. As if it isn't enough that we're already far behind, now they got to add this to the mix as well. This whole saga has been like a rickety rollercoaster.

[Daehawk]

Guess I never had it.

[stessier]

Its weird how this vaccine affects everyone in such extreme ways from nothing to super sick. Other than allergic reactions you dont hear that about the flu shots.

We don't routinely vaccinate those previously infected by the flu with the flu vaccine. But there's no doubt we are vaccinating plenty of people who were previously infected with the coronavirus, albeit perhaps unknowingly and completely asymptomatically. In which case they would predictably possess some degree of natural immune response and antibodies to fight the virus, hence the more intense side effects when they receive the coronavirus vaccine as compared to someone with no previous exposure to the virus:

Some COVID Vaccine Side Effects May Indicate You Were Once Infected, Study Suggests

BOSTON (CBS) – There are certain side effects from the COVID-19 vaccine that may indicate a person was at one time infected with the coronavirus, according to a new study.

The study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, surveyed almost 1,000 health care workers in the U.K. after they received their first Pfizer vaccine.

After vaccination, about four-percent of those previously infected with the coronavirus developed swollen lymph nodes compared to only one-percent of people without known previous infection.

Those previously infected were also more likely to report fever, muscle pain, and fatigue. Pain at the injection site and GI symptoms were about the same in both groups. And the interval between the time of infection and time of vaccination did not appear to be a factor.

But as a reminder, if you’ve had COVID-19 in the past, you still need to get vaccinated. And even though you may develop side effects, those side effects tend to be mild to moderate and last only 24-48 hours.

You keep coming back to that, but the vast majority are reporting symptoms after the second shot, not the first. This suggests it's simply people reacting to the shot and nothing to do with previous infection.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Its weird how this vaccine affects everyone in such extreme ways from nothing to super sick. Other than allergic reactions you dont hear that about the flu shots.

We don't routinely vaccinate those previously infected by the flu with the flu vaccine. But there's no doubt we are vaccinating plenty of people who were previously infected with the coronavirus, albeit perhaps unknowingly and completely asymptomatically. In which case they would predictably possess some degree of natural immune response and antibodies to fight the virus, hence the more intense side effects when they receive the coronavirus vaccine as compared to someone with no previous exposure to the virus:

Some COVID Vaccine Side Effects May Indicate You Were Once Infected, Study Suggests

BOSTON (CBS) – There are certain side effects from the COVID-19 vaccine that may indicate a person was at one time infected with the coronavirus, according to a new study.

The study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, surveyed almost 1,000 health care workers in the U.K. after they received their first Pfizer vaccine.

After vaccination, about four-percent of those previously infected with the coronavirus developed swollen lymph nodes compared to only one-percent of people without known previous infection.

Those previously infected were also more likely to report fever, muscle pain, and fatigue. Pain at the injection site and GI symptoms were about the same in both groups. And the interval between the time of infection and time of vaccination did not appear to be a factor.

But as a reminder, if you’ve had COVID-19 in the past, you still need to get vaccinated. And even though you may develop side effects, those side effects tend to be mild to moderate and last only 24-48 hours.

You keep coming back to that, but the vast majority are reporting symptoms after the second shot, not the first. This suggests it's simply people reacting to the shot and nothing to do with previous infection.

I'm not suggesting it's the only factor, just that it is a factor.

The only reason we're fortunate enough to have the vaccine as soon as we did is because it received ‘Emergency Use’ authorization. 'Emergency Use’ authorized vaccines do not meet the criteria for a fully biologically licensed vaccine (that's why U.S. military service members still have the choice not to receive it), which takes years of efficacy and safety data. So there's plenty more to be learned, studied, and researched about the vaccine's side effects and their causes.

[stessier]

Its weird how this vaccine affects everyone in such extreme ways from nothing to super sick. Other than allergic reactions you dont hear that about the flu shots.

We don't routinely vaccinate those previously infected by the flu with the flu vaccine. But there's no doubt we are vaccinating plenty of people who were previously infected with the coronavirus, albeit perhaps unknowingly and completely asymptomatically. In which case they would predictably possess some degree of natural immune response and antibodies to fight the virus, hence the more intense side effects when they receive the coronavirus vaccine as compared to someone with no previous exposure to the virus:

Some COVID Vaccine Side Effects May Indicate You Were Once Infected, Study Suggests

BOSTON (CBS) – There are certain side effects from the COVID-19 vaccine that may indicate a person was at one time infected with the coronavirus, according to a new study.

The study, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, surveyed almost 1,000 health care workers in the U.K. after they received their first Pfizer vaccine.

After vaccination, about four-percent of those previously infected with the coronavirus developed swollen lymph nodes compared to only one-percent of people without known previous infection.

Those previously infected were also more likely to report fever, muscle pain, and fatigue. Pain at the injection site and GI symptoms were about the same in both groups. And the interval between the time of infection and time of vaccination did not appear to be a factor.

But as a reminder, if you’ve had COVID-19 in the past, you still need to get vaccinated. And even though you may develop side effects, those side effects tend to be mild to moderate and last only 24-48 hours.

You keep coming back to that, but the vast majority are reporting symptoms after the second shot, not the first. This suggests it's simply people reacting to the shot and nothing to do with previous infection.

I'm not suggesting it's the only factor, just that it is a factor.

The only reason we're fortunate enough to have the vaccine as soon as we did is because it received ‘Emergency Use’ authorization. 'Emergency Use’ authorized vaccines do not meet the criteria for a fully biologically licensed vaccine (that's why U.S. military service members still have the choice not to receive it), which takes years of efficacy and safety data. So there's plenty more to be learned, studied, and researched about the vaccine's side effects and their causes.

Not years - Pfizer had already submitted for full approval. That could come by the end of the year as review usually takes about six months. This vaccine has proved to be remarkably safe and effective.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Not years - Pfizer had already submitted for full approval. That could come by the end of the year as review usually takes about six months.

Quoting from the Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center:

TYPICAL TIMELINE
A typical vaccine development timeline takes 5 to 10 years, and sometimes longer, to assess whether the vaccine is safe and efficacious in clinical trials, complete the regulatory approval processes, and manufacture sufficient quantity of vaccine doses for widespread distribution.

This vaccine has proved to be remarkably safe and effective.

Indeed, and I was not suggesting otherwise.

[Defiant]

The only reason we're fortunate enough to have the vaccine as soon as we did is because it received ‘Emergency Use’ authorization.

That is not the only reason we're fortunate enough to have it as soon as we did.

IIUC, some of the other reasons include MRNA technology (obviously only with regards to the MRNA vaccines), early work in the area, lots of funding to alleviate bottlenecks like manufacturing, etc. Oh yeah, and a worldwide pandemic might have led to more focus and raising it's priority.

[Anonymous Bosch]

The only reason we're fortunate enough to have the vaccine as soon as we did is because it received ‘Emergency Use’ authorization.

That is not the only reason we're fortunate enough to have it as soon as we did.

IIUC, some of the other reasons include MRNA technology (obviously only with regards to the MRNA vaccines), early work in the area, lots of funding to alleviate bottlenecks like manufacturing, etc. Oh yeah, and a worldwide pandemic might have led to more focus and raising it's priority.

Sure, if you completely remove the context of my remark. But I was specifically referring to the authorization process rather than trying to suggest that BioNTech designing an mRNA vaccine by plugging the genetic code for the spike protein into its software had nothing whatsoever to do with the overall speed of its development. In case it was not obvious, I wasn't trying to provide a prolix paragraph detailing each and every contributary aspect that went into the vaccine's rapid development.

[LawBeefaroni]

The only reason we're fortunate enough to have the vaccine as soon as we did is because it received ‘Emergency Use’ authorization.

That is not the only reason we're fortunate enough to have it as soon as we did.

IIUC, some of the other reasons include MRNA technology (obviously only with regards to the MRNA vaccines), early work in the area, lots of funding to alleviate bottlenecks like manufacturing, etc. Oh yeah, and a worldwide pandemic might have led to more focus and raising it's priority.

Sure, if you completely remove the context of my remark. But I was specifically referring to the authorization process rather than trying to suggest that BioNTech designing an mRNA vaccine by plugging the genetic code for the spike protein into its software had nothing whatsoever to do with the overall speed of its development. In case it was not obvious, I wasn't trying to provide a prolix paragraph detailing each and every contributary aspect that went into the vaccine's rapid development.

Fast track, priority review, and accelerated approval are all used by the FDA to speed up trials and approval. They can cut the typical timeline by half or more.

EUA still bypassed all this but the FDA can approve in as little as 6 months under "normal" processes. What puts a lower limit on it are the trials. Good trials take several years at least.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Fast track, priority review, and accelerated approval are all used by the FDA to speed up trials and approval. They can cut the typical timeline by half or more.

EUA still bypassed all this but the FDA can approve in as little as 6 months under "normal" processes. What puts a lower limit on it are the trials. Good trials take several years at least.

Again, I was not trying to suggest otherwise. I only mentioned the EUA in the context of emphasizing the notion there's more to be learned, studied, and researched about the vaccine's side effects and their causes. Which will doubtless be further clarified as it goes through the process of becoming a fully biologically licensed vaccine, regardless of exactly how long that process takes.

[dbt1949]

Went to the grocery today and didn't wear a mask. I felt somewhat guilty but not enough to put my mask on.

[Jeff V]

All of the stores I went to the past few days still have mandatory mask requirements. If those get lifted, I'll have to stop bringing the kids with me (which means less shopping overall).

[YellowKing]

Yeah I went into my local game store today and they dropped the mask requirement for vaccinated customers (though employees still wore masks). It felt REALLY odd, like walking around with my zipper undone or something.

[ImLawBoy]

Grocery store trip on Sunday maintained 100% mask compliance. Combination of the store still requiring masks and a generally mask-friendly local environment.

[Kasey Chang]

Just got my second jab, and it did hurt a little more. The shot giver said they use a different needle for the 2nd shot (?!) didn't feel any different afterwards though. :-\

[El Guapo]

I took the subway on Saturday for the first time since March 2020. It was a little surreal being on the train again, but at the same time totally normal-ish. Mask compliance was pretty much at 100% (I did see one guy on the other side of the car with a mask on but below his nose). People were pretty spaced out for the most part (not super crowded).

Outdoors mask compliance is definitely down, not that I've been to anyplace outdoors with a large crowd lately. Downtown mask compliance varied between 30% - 70% depending on the time / group (significant variation). Overall probably slightly more people not wearing masks outside than wearing them.

[Max Peck]

Ontario is accelerating the pace of vaccinations again.

COVID-19 vaccine appointments opening for those 18+

Ontario is opening up eligibility for COVID-19 vaccines to everyone aged 18 and older a week ahead of schedule, the province said Monday, as public health units reported another 2,170 cases of the illness.

Those who meet the criteria can begin booking appointments through the province's online portal and call centre or through their local public health unit, depending on where they live, as of 8 a.m. ET Tuesday.

Ontario expects 2.2 million more doses of vaccines to arrive this week ahead of the Victoria Day long weekend. Among the additional doses is a shipment that was not supposed to land until next week, the province said in a news release.

Meanwhile, Ontarians who are 17 and set to turn 18 in 2021 will also be able to book an appointment for a shot of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, the only one currently approved for use in adolescents aged 12 and older in Canada, starting Tuesday.

The province said it intends to start opening appointments through its online portal and call centre for those aged 12-17 the week of May 31. Officials say they are working with health units, school boards and First Nations, Inuit and Métis communities to finalize the details. Family members of adolescents who have not already been vaccinated will be encouraged to attend those same clinics for a shot, the province said.

Lastly, as of tomorrow, public health units administering the Pfizer vaccine through mobile and pop-up clinics, or via any clinics where walk-ins are permitted, will have the option to offer shots to those aged 12 and over.

[Max Peck]

I hadn't realized that Novavax is testing a combination seasonal flu/COVID-19 vaccine.

Novavax Announces Positive Preclinical Data for Combination Influenza and COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate

- Manuscript highlights development of robust responses to both influenza and COVID-19 and protection against the SARS-CoV-2 virus

- Data shared via preprint server for biology, bioRxiv, ahead of publication

GAITHERSBURG, Md., May 10, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- Novavax, Inc. (Nasdaq: NVAX), a biotechnology company developing next-generation vaccines for serious infectious diseases, today announced data from a preclinical study of the company's combination quadrivalent seasonal flu vaccine (NanoFlu™) and COVID-19 vaccine candidate (NVX-CoV2373). The NanoFlu/NVX-CoV2373 combination vaccine demonstrated positive immune responses to both influenza and SARS-CoV-2. A pre-print of the manuscript is available at bioRxiv.org.

The manuscript, titled 'Combination Respiratory Vaccine Containing Recombinant SARS-CoV-2 Spike and Quadrivalent Seasonal Influenza Hemagglutinin Nanoparticles with Matrix-M™ Adjuvant,' studied a combination vaccine comprising a quadrivalent nanoparticle influenza vaccine formulated together with a recombinant SARS-CoV-2 spike protein vaccine and Matrix-M™ adjuvant. The combination vaccine elicited robust responses to both influenza A and B and protected against the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Clinical studies of the combination vaccine are expected to begin by the end of the year.

[jztemple2]

I took the subway on Saturday for the first time since March 2020. It was a little surreal being on the train again, but at the same time totally normal-ish. Mask compliance was pretty much at 100% (I did see one guy on the other side of the car with a mask on but below his nose). People were pretty spaced out for the most part (not super crowded).

Outdoors mask compliance is definitely down, not that I've been to anyplace outdoors with a large crowd lately. Downtown mask compliance varied between 30% - 70% depending on the time / group (significant variation). Overall probably slightly more people not wearing masks outside than wearing them.

The wife and I went to Disney Springs, the shopping and dining area at Walt Disney World, for an early lunch and to walk around and check it out since it's been at least three years since we've been there. A few days ago Disney dropped the requirement for masks to be worn outdoors, except in congested areas, like the security check points. Masks still have to be worn indoors unless actually seated in a restaurant. We at at the Rainforest Cafe, which was nice but expensive, and later got a churro; Disney churros are the best . There were still quite a number of people wearing masks outside and we noticed that the change in policy wasn't been displayed on any signs as of today. We had a nice walk (wife riding on our scooter) after lunch along the water. Sadly the balloon ride had to be shut down because of high winds . It was surprisingly busy for an off-season month on a Monday, I guess everyone wants to get out of the house.

[Alefroth]

Just got my second jab, and it did hurt a little more. The shot giver said they use a different needle for the 2nd shot (?!) didn't feel any different afterwards though. :-\

The first one just preps the site. The second one delivers the transmitter, so yeah, a little bigger.

[Isgrimnur]

Wired: The 60-Year-Old Scientific Screwup That Helped Covid Kill

Morawska had spent more than two decades advising a different branch of the WHO on the impacts of air pollution. When it came to flecks of soot and ash belched out by smokestacks and tailpipes, the organization readily accepted the physics she was describing—that particles of many sizes can hang aloft, travel far, and be inhaled. Now, though, the WHO’s advisers seemed to be saying those same laws didn’t apply to virus-laced respiratory particles. To them, the word airborne only applied to particles smaller than 5 microns. Trapped in their group-specific jargon, the two camps on Zoom literally couldn’t understand one another.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, that wired piece is good. The arguing still continues (for serious, there are people still arguing about this a year later).

Update on kids under 12:

Kids in the United States will likely be able to get COVID-19 vaccinations by the end of this year or the first quarter of 2022, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert, said at an event on Wednesday.

I hope he's right, but if I'm going to trust anyone's guess it's his.

Regarding boosters:

Fauci also noted the need for a COVID-19 booster shot within a year or so after getting the primary shot.

"I think we will almost certainly require a booster sometime within a year or so after getting the primary because the durability protection against coronavirus is generally not lifelong similar to measles," he said.

[stessier]

Taiwan's number of cases over the last 5 days have doubled their total of the last 14 months. In fairness, they had an incredibly low number of cases (compared to the US) - but still, something's up over there. They are up to 2533 cases total.

[Lorini]

This virus is not willing to go away easily. Sometimes I wonder if there's a human up in it somewhere.