The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:59 pm

Seeing a pattern here, but can't quite figure it out. I'll never understand why they dropped the mask mandate. Anyone with a half a brain knew that people were just going to not get the shot and run around like idiots.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:02 pm

https://twitter.com/nprpolitics/status/ ... 1976907777

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:14 pm

As per something I just saw in WaPo a couple minutes ago, the Biden admin is considering mandatory Covid vaccinations for all feds.

Dammit, beaten by Defiant (I didn't go to the last page before posting).

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:14 pm

Octavious wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:59 pm Seeing a pattern here, but can't quite figure it out. I'll never understand why they dropped the mask mandate. Anyone with a half a brain knew that people were just going to not get the shot and run around like idiots.

Against all evidence to the contrary, I believe that President Biden was hoping the overwhelming majority of Americans would do what was necessary to help stop what is unfolding right now.

I think we've hopefully proven they're willing to take us all out with them, so it's time to turn the screws and escalate social and employment-related pressure.

At this point, I see short-term disruptions being likely (closures and shut downs). If this (and the aforementioned screw-turning) stops longer term shutdowns as we head from Fall into Winter, that would be the goal.

EDIT: What's so goddamn frustrating is that once again, we're responding to an unfolding public health emergency instead of preventing it in the first place.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:06 pm

The color scheme on that map above is on point.

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:14 pm Against all evidence to the contrary, I believe that President Biden was hoping the overwhelming majority of Americans would do what was necessary to help stop what is unfolding right now.

I think we've hopefully proven they're willing to take us all out with them, so it's time to turn the screws and escalate social and employment-related pressure.

And they are already freaking out about that from what I'm seeing online. They've been indoctrinated into thinking this is an issue of freedom vs. 'authoritarianism'. It's mindboggling how dumb this nation is at a macro and micro level when we are talking relatively easy and non-intrusive measures.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:08 pm

Y'all didn't hear it from me, but I have it on good authority numerous major retail grocers in our area are getting ready to adopt purchase limits based on anticipated supply chain issues.

I'm not saying to hoard anything, but definitely get ready for some insanity, because freedom.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:09 pm

My toilet paper reserve stands ready.

UsulofDoom · Post by **UsulofDoom** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:10 pm

pr0ner wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:14 pm As per something I just saw in WaPo a couple minutes ago, the Biden admin is considering mandatory Covid vaccinations for all feds.

Dammit, beaten by Defiant (I didn't go to the last page before posting).

What is the penalties if you refuse. Will it be termination or paid leave? More likely just law suits.

If your on welfair can you be considered a fedral employee?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:15 pm

UsulofDoom wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:10 pm What is the penalties if you refuse. Will it be termination or paid leave? More likely just law suits.

There's plenty of case law for this related to influenza. If they refuse COVID-19 vaccination it'll be mandatory masking at work and they likely need to submit to daily testing, hopefully at their own expense and coming out of their paycheck (after taxes) automatically.

UsulofDoom · Post by **UsulofDoom** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:19 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:08 pm Y'all didn't hear it from me, but I have it on good authority numerous major retail grocers in our area are getting ready to adopt purchase limits based on anticipated supply chain issues.

I'm not saying to hoard anything, but definitely get ready for some insanity, because freedom.

What does freedom have to do with it?

"33 ships were anchored off the coast of Los Angeles and Long Beach waiting to dock on Friday.
"The normal number of container ships at anchor is between zero and one," Louttit said.
The California ports are congested and account for about one-third of US imports.
The delays are contributing to major shortages across the country in stores and restaurants.
See more stories on Insider's business page.
A supply-chain crisis has been brewing off the coast of Southern California for many months as massive freighters wait for dock space to open up.

Current port delays are near a record high. On Friday, 33 ships were anchored off the coast waiting for a spot to open up to unload at Los Angeles and Long Beach ports, according to data from the Marine Exchange of Southern California.

California ports in Los Angeles and Long Beach account for about one-third of US imports. These ports operate as a primary source of imports from China and have been heavily congested for months."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets ... r-BB1fi9LY

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:27 pm

UsulofDoom wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:19 pm What does freedom have to do with it?

As the disease surges nationwide (because, freedom) and we hit our next peak (September? October?) there will be domestic supply chain issues as warehouse staff, logistic partners and truck drivers are waylaid by the virus - either directly or indirectly.

The shipping container situation is another issue, but they're not impacting my delivery of Bosco syrup. In short, the container issue is still connected to the original issues from 2020. Another layer of disruption is anticipated on a more local/regional level.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:04 pm

https://twitter.com/gilbertjasono/statu ... 35713?s=19

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:22 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:27 pm
UsulofDoom wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:19 pm What does freedom have to do with it?
As the disease surges nationwide (because, freedom) and we hit our next peak (September? October?) there will be domestic supply chain issues as warehouse staff, logistic partners and truck drivers are waylaid by the virus - either directly or indirectly.

The shipping container situation is another issue, but they're not impacting my delivery of Bosco syrup. In short, the container issue is still connected to the original issues from 2020. Another layer of disruption is anticipated on a more local/regional level.

We were talking about this last week - my wife recently switched over from being on the consumer products manufacturing to raw materials manufacturing and supply (the sociopaths referenced above). They are seeing shortages of domestic and imported chemical inputs but some of the worst shortages are in preservatives. Beyond the production/import based shortage they can't find enough truck drivers right now and I expect they are modeling them getting hit hard. It could make for a super fun fall. My wife is leadership at this company, but newly hired (and a woman - who listens to women?). She brought it up today but they literally aren't planning for any of this stuff. It's insane.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:49 pm

malchior wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:22 pm She brought it up today but they literally aren't planning for any of this stuff.

If she gets her hands on the work memo that indicated the pandemic is over, I'd like a copy.

I *think* this is the map the CDC wants people to use in order to guide mask use. Again, Red and Orange = wear a mask indoors regardless of your vaccination status.

Posting mainly for historical purposes (7/27 snapshot)

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:18 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:49 pm I *think* this is the map the CDC wants people to use in order to guide mask use. Again, Red and Orange = wear a mask indoors regardless of your vaccination status.

Posting mainly for historical purposes (7/27 snapshot)

The one they link to directly from the guidance page tunnels down to the county level, rather than just the state, so it seems like it would be a bit more useful in helping people make informed decisions based on local community transmission.

Safer Activities for You and Your Family
If you are fully vaccinated, you can participate in many of the activities that you did before the pandemic.

To maximize protection from the Delta variant and prevent possibly spreading it to others, wear a mask indoors in public if you are in an area of substantial or high transmission.

Wearing a mask is most important if you have a weakened immune system or if, because of your age or an underlying medical condition, you are at increased risk for severe disease, or if someone in your household has a weakened immune system, is at increased risk for severe disease, or is unvaccinated. If this applies to you or your household, you might choose to wear a mask regardless of the level of transmission in your area.

You should continue to wear a mask where required by laws, rules, regulations, or local guidance.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:23 pm

Max Peck wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:18 pm The one they link to directly from the guidance page tunnels down to the county level, rather than just the state, so it seems like it would be a bit more useful in helping people make informed decisions based on local community transmission.

Right, but this goes back to my earlier comments. I live in a county that is currently Yellow (though they're showing NJ as orange on that other map). If I (in my Yellow county) then think, "Oh, I don't need to mask up indoors as a vaccinated adult - it's only Monmouth county that's Red - I'll be fine", guess what's going to happen? The virus (not following county lines) is going to spread into areas where people aren't wearing masks indoors and magically in a few weeks, my corner of NJ will be Red as well.

I get what they're trying to do, but I'll repeat - the virus does not respect borders or boundaries, particularly as our population vacations, commutes and otherwise travels throughout the day.

Following what's happening locally is important, but I'd be more inclined to look at my region to guide practice. That''s what's been so frustrating - we need to stop knee-jerk reacting to things and actually put prevention plans in place and not take them away and declare "Mission Accomplished" at the 10 yard line. Everyone is still focused on today. I'm half-way into August at this point and wondering how the first day of school is going to look across the state based on what I'm seeing today.

Like Daehawk, I'm in a constant state of time travel.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:36 pm

Fair enough.

Still, you said "I *think* this is the map the CDC wants people to use" rather than "I think this is the map that people should use." I stand by my conviction that the map that the CDC wants people to use is the one that they told people to use.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:40 pm

There are days when I'm not even sure the CDC knows what they want. I discovered that other map via a Tweet promoted by the Director of the CDC. You think she'd link to the same map, and yet, here we are.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:52 pm

FWIW I had to go to the doc for a followup blood draw today. All but two people were masked (including me, because that's a place where sick people go, duh). Last month, nobody was. And we're in a yellow state. People here are taking Delta seriously.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:08 am

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status ... 8565915648

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:43 am

Once again I had to have the 'mask talk' with the family about how the next few (?) months are going to work. Once again I'm the bad guy for bearing the bad news.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:39 am

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:43 am Once again I had to have the 'mask talk' with the family about how the next few (?) months are going to work. Once again I'm the bad guy for bearing the bad news.

My kids are still 100% cool with masking. I am less certain about the parents of other kids in the neighborhood. I mean it's still Texas and I am pretty sure the governor won't let the schools mandate masks regardless of the consequences.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:18 am

A couple of Gottlieb takes:

https://twitter.com/SquawkCNBC/status/1 ... 9280728066

https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1419806740267208706

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:27 am

I have seen a lot of discussion of the UK situation today. The problem I see is that the UK up until recently had much tighter restrictions. They were just loosened so we are basing this type of forecasting on a case with very different controls against a population with very different behaviors. It's sort of baffling to not take that into account.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:59 am

My quick, unscientific take on what's happening in the U.S. right now is that all the suburban and rural communities in the lower population density parts of America are now experiencing what we in NJ/NY (and other population centers) experienced in the Spring of 2020, when it first surged. In short, the Delta variant is able to "overcome" their inherent suspected advantage with a lower population density because the Delta variant has ramped up production, making any close encounter more likely to spread the virus.

And because they've been living largely consequence free for over a year (in terms of seeing health impacts as cases surge around them for 6+ weeks) and they have large pockets of unvaccinated people, it's driving spread. Up until now, it's been a big problem in other areas. Yes, they had smaller surges and people getting sick, but the scale just dramatically increased. There was no incentive to change behavior (masks, vaccinations) because up until now, it was an issue they viewed on TV, not in their own community.

I just saw that a county health department in Missouri closed due to COVID-19 -- they're unable to staff the office. That's like a fire department announcing they're closed during a massive wildfire.

I think we can look to the UK and what happened in India to get some basic idea of what to expect, but I'd agree - it's not a 1:1 comparison and the biggest differences are going to be cultural/political/ideological - all of which influences how the virus is spreading.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:30 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:59 am That's like a fire department announcing they're closed during a massive wildfire.

Closed because the station is on fire.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:35 pm

Alefroth wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:30 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:59 am That's like a fire department announcing they're closed during a massive wildfire.
Closed because the station is on fire.

After the townsfolk left kindling about and decided to fuck around with kerosene.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:48 pm

I had never heard the expression "Fuck around and find out" until this year and now it really does seem to be the theme phrase of 2021.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:51 pm

LordMortis wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:48 pm I had never heard the expression "Fuck around and find out" until this year and now it really does seem to be the theme phrase of 2021.

Same.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:02 pm

When biker slang crosses over to the popular lexicon to explain what's happening, you know things are serious. It's definitely been a phrase in heavy use in my part of 'merica since the Spring of 2020.

I can't stop thinking about this article:

https://twitter.com/emilyakopp/status/1 ... 8165329922

“Having half the population vaccinated and half unvaccinated and unprotected – that is the exact experiment I would design if I were a devil and trying to design a vaccine-busting virus.”

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:19 pm

Lord, give me strength:

A day after federal officials tightened coronavirus mask guidance, Gov. Phil Murphy and the state’s top health official said Wednesday that all people in New Jersey, regardless of vaccination status, are ”strongly recommended” — but not mandated — to wear masks indoors in public settings where there is “increased risk.”

...

The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced Tuesday it’s recommending all people, including the fully vaccinated, wear masks indoors again in public places with “high” or “substantial” COVID-19 transmission rates.

Eight [of 21] New Jersey counties fall into the high and substantial categories, according to CDC data. Monmouth County is listed as having “high” transmission, while Atlantic, Bergen, Essex, Middlesex, Ocean, Passaic, and Union counties have “substantial” transmission.

You wear masks now as prevention to stop things from escalating. You don't order masks back on after things are out of control. As a reminder:

The state’s seven-day average for confirmed positive COVID-19 tests is now 754, up 52% from a week ago and 277% from a month ago, when officials were reporting record-low daily caseloads. It’s the highest seven-day average since May 15.

We have learned nothing.

Regarding schools:

“No update right now,” Murphy spokeswoman Alyana Alfaro told NJ Advance Media when asked if schools are included in the new recommendations.

Translation - we are consulting with lawyers.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:33 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:51 pm
LordMortis wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:48 pm I had never heard the expression "Fuck around and find out" until this year and now it really does seem to be the theme phrase of 2021.
Same.

I've heard it for years and think it has a Philly origin since I've been hearing it loudest and remember it first from that area.

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:19 pmTranslation - we are consulting with lawyers campaign consultants.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:07 pm

People are dancing, bars are full and hospital Covid units are mostly empty. Health officials tout Green Mountain State as safest in US.

'I don't feel any fear going out.' How residents are living in America's most vaccinated state

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:33 pm

Welp, no more going maskless outside of my office at work. Just got an email that I now have to wear a mask while roaming the halls, after a few weeks of freedom due to being vaccinated.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:34 pm

Thread...

https://twitter.com/ArmstrongDrew/statu ... 99360?s=19

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:36 pm

pr0ner wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:33 pm Welp, no more going maskless outside of my office at work. Just got an email that I now have to wear a mask while roaming the halls, after a few weeks of freedom due to being vaccinated.

Ditto.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:47 am

A man has been arrested and charged in federal court with sending emails that threatened to harm and kill Dr. Anthony Fauci, National Institutes of Health Director Dr. Francis Collins, and their families, federal prosecutors in Maryland announced Tuesday.

A criminal complaint filed Monday charges Thomas Patrick Connally Jr., 56, with threats against a federal official and interstate communication containing a threat to harm.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/m ... o-dr-fauci

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:06 am

I believe that Biden's expected to announce that federal employees have to get vaccinated or submit to regular testing, which is good.

Also my daughter (who just turned 12) got her first Pfizer shot yesterday, which is great.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:35 am

Alefroth wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:30 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:59 am That's like a fire department announcing they're closed during a massive wildfire.
Closed because the station is on fire.

Our local fire department has burned down. Twice.

The analogy holds.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:28 pm

Our local high school just sent out the "here comes the 21/22 school year" letter and right at the beginning the school principal indicates they will be complying with the state and local mandates for student safety.

However, the state has said its up to schools to decide what to do in order to protect students. I also know there is no local mandate, so basically it's turning into this

Its going to be great.

EDIT: Oh, and NJ is over 1,000 new daily cases for the first time in ~3 months.