Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

[Isgrimnur]

NBC News

An unvaccinated snow leopard at the San Diego Zoo has contracted Covid-19.

Caretakers noticed that Ramil, a 9-year-old male snow leopard, had a cough and runny nose on Thursday. Later, two separate tests of his stool confirmed the presence of the coronavirus, the zoo said in a statement Friday.

Ramil is not showing additional symptoms, the zoo said, but because he shares an enclosure with a female snow leopard and two Amur leopards, the staff assumes they have been exposed. As a result, the animals were quarantined and their exhibit was closed.
...
In January, a troop of eight gorillas at the zoo’s sister facility, San Diego Zoo Safari Park, contracted Covid-19 from a keeper who had the virus but showed no symptoms.

The gorilla troop, which has since recovered, became the first known example of the virus infecting apes.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, at a zoo I can see it happening because clearly there's going to be close human contact. Random deer in PA or Wisconsin? How does that happen?

In other news, study posted in the NEJM regarding breakthrough in vaccinated health care worker:

Among 1497 fully vaccinated health care workers for whom RT-PCR data were available, 39 SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infections were documented.

...

The B.1.1.7 (alpha) variant was found in 85% of samples tested. A total of 74% of case patients had a high viral load (Ct value, <30) at some point during their infection; however, of these patients, only 17 (59%) had a positive result on concurrent Ag-RDT. No secondary infections were documented.

Here's the part to note:

Most breakthrough infections were mild or asymptomatic, although persistent symptoms did occur

So yeah. Vaccinated people still potentially at risk for not only COVID-19, but they can also get long COVID. Not great.

[LawBeefaroni]

I'm curious about this statement - that they are "often" in close contact with people. I wouldn't say that at all.

Of course you wouldn't, city slicker.

[Smoove_B]

I had a bear on my back porch last week and a bobcat skulking around the path next to the rear porch a few months ago.

I am...not in a population dense area of NJ.

[LawBeefaroni]

I had a bear on my back porch last week and a bobcat skulking around the path next to the rear porch a few months ago.

Well, that's probably why you don't get much deer.

[Holman]

https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/ ... 17257?s=20

[malchior]

I think this has been dropped here but totally deserves a second look.

https://twitter.com/MeidasTouch/status/ ... 9086089219

[Smoove_B]

First and foremost, F Tucker Carlson.

Second:

BREAKING: U.S. reports 88,376 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase since February

[Isgrimnur]

[Sudy]

In suburban Atlanta, Jamie Reinhold said she would pull her kids from school if the district stuck to the CDC's guidance, which the 52-year-old believes takes the country “backward” and damages confidence in the vaccines.

“If you believe in the masks, go ahead, but don't try to tell me what to do for my child's health and safety and immune system,” she said. “It's my child. It's my choice.”

(AP via CP24.com)

In other news, local man forgoes covering bleeding scrape with band-aid for fear of undermining tourniquets.

[LawBeefaroni]

In suburban Atlanta, Jamie Reinhold said she would pull her kids from school if the district stuck to the CDC's guidance, which the 52-year-old believes takes the country “backward” and damages confidence in the vaccines.

“If you believe in the masks, go ahead, but don't try to tell me what to do for my child's health and safety and immune system,” she said. “It's my child. It's my choice.”

(AP via CP24.com)

In other news, local man forgoes covering bleeding scrape with band-aid for fear of undermining tourniquets.

Man continues to drink a gallon of lard daily for fear of undermining confidence in statins.

[Smoove_B]

I don't even know what to say about this but I share in case anyone is under the illusion that we're collectively headed in the right direction.

https://twitter.com/Sifill_LDF/status/1 ... 3546782720

Editor's note: Dr. Faisal Khan, acting director of the St. Louis County Department of Public Health, spoke in favor of a mask mandate on Tuesday night during a county council meeting. On Wednesday, he wrote a letter to Council Chair Rita Heard Days describing his experience during and after his comments. The full letter is posted below:

[malchior]

He is a better man than me. I'd walk away from these nitwits and never look back.

[Kurth]

At our all hands company meeting yesterday, we were told about the back to work plan: as expected, 3 days a week in the office, Tues-Thurs. Also, we’re masking up again indoors, with or without a vaccine.

There were several comments/questions in the chat about why we aren’t mandating vaccines. No answers given.

Later, coming on the heels of Google’s announcement, FB and Netflix joined in mandating vaccines for all employees returning to the office.

I don’t see how any company can force you to come back to work without mandating that your coworkers are vaccinated.

[noxiousdog]

Re: Deer - How about mosquitos as a transmission vector?

[LawBeefaroni]

Re: Deer - How about mosquitos as a transmission vector?

To date there is no evidence that COVID can replicate in mosquitos. Not sure if studies have since included Delta, or if that even matters.

"While the World Health Organization has definitively stated that mosquitoes cannot transmit the virus, our study is the first to provide conclusive data supporting the theory," said Higgs, Peine professor of biosecurity and university distinguished professor of diagnostic medicine and pathobiology.

[noxiousdog]

Re: Deer - How about mosquitos as a transmission vector?

To date there is no evidence that COVID can replicate in mosquitos. Not sure if studies have since included Delta, or if that even matters.

"While the World Health Organization has definitively stated that mosquitoes cannot transmit the virus, our study is the first to provide conclusive data supporting the theory," said Higgs, Peine professor of biosecurity and university distinguished professor of diagnostic medicine and pathobiology.

It doesn't have to be replication. It could just be transfer. I have skepticism as it seems to be primarily a respiratory disease and not a blood disease.

I'm just brainstorming.

[LawBeefaroni]

Re: Deer - How about mosquitos as a transmission vector?

To date there is no evidence that COVID can replicate in mosquitos. Not sure if studies have since included Delta, or if that even matters.

"While the World Health Organization has definitively stated that mosquitoes cannot transmit the virus, our study is the first to provide conclusive data supporting the theory," said Higgs, Peine professor of biosecurity and university distinguished professor of diagnostic medicine and pathobiology.

It doesn't have to be replication. It could just be transfer. I have skepticism as it seems to be primarily a respiratory disease and not a blood disease.

I'm just brainstorming.

Replication is really the only way for mosquitoes to pass on disease. See HIV. Massively studied, zero transmission. It doesn't replicate and dies in the mosquito.

Instinctively, I'm with you, it feels like a possible vector. But it isn't.

[Max Peck]

Re: Deer - How about mosquitos as a transmission vector?

I see no need to blame mosquitoes for the deeds of furries with a bambi fetish.

[Smoove_B]

Instinctively, I'm with you, it feels like a possible vector. But it isn't.

Exactly. Something else is going on and (to me) it suggests an intermediary host. However, I'm at a loss to explain what would be around people and deer with high enough contact that could spread a respiratory virus.

[hitbyambulance]

the head of our company came down with C19 - fully vaccinated, 'is not sure' how it happened, is in recovery now (was not hospitalized).

[Smoove_B]

https://twitter.com/carlzimmer/status/1 ... 8223884289

Louisiana is now shooting past its previous peak.

Yikes is all I can say.

[stessier]

The Delta variant is as contagious as chickenpox, leaked CDC presentation warns

I want to see the WaPo article, but don't have a subscription.

[malchior]

I just read it - I'll post the conclusion because the rest is just reinterpreting a slide deck which is ... imperfect at best because slide decks are a poor medium of communication on their own.

A person working in partnership with the CDC on investigations of the delta variant, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak, said the data came from a July 4 outbreak in Provincetown, Mass. Genetic analysis of the outbreak showed that people who were vaccinated were transmitting the virus to other vaccinated people. The person said the data was “deeply disconcerting” and a “canary in the coal mine” for scientists who had seen the data.

If the war has changed, as the CDC states, so has the calculus of success and failure. The extreme contagiousness of delta makes herd immunity a more challenging target, infectious-disease experts said.

“I think the central issue is that vaccinated people are probably involved to a substantial extent in the transmission of delta,” Jeffrey Shaman, a Columbia University epidemiologist, wrote in an email after reviewing the CDC slides. “In some sense, vaccination is now about personal protection — protecting oneself against severe disease. Herd immunity is not relevant as we are seeing plenty of evidence of repeat and breakthrough infections.”

The document underscores what scientists and experts have been saying for months: It is time to shift how people think about the pandemic.

Kathleen Neuzil, a vaccine expert at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, said getting more people vaccinated remains the priority, but the public may also have to change its relationship to a virus almost certain to be with humanity for the foreseeable future.

“We really need to shift toward a goal of preventing serious disease and disability and medical consequences, and not worry about every virus detected in somebody’s nose,” Neuzil said. “It’s hard to do, but I think we have to become comfortable with coronavirus not going away.”

[msteelers]

At this point all I really care about is when I can get my daughter vaccinated. She’s 9 months old, so we have a ways to go.

The last I heard was Fauci saying kids as young as 4 years old could get the vaccine sometime by the end of this year or Q1 2022. That’s not good enough.

[stessier]

I get the frustration, but studies take time. There's not a lot one can do about it.

[Smoove_B]

“We really need to shift toward a goal of preventing serious disease and disability and medical consequences, and not worry about every virus detected in somebody’s nose,” Neuzil said. “It’s hard to do, but I think we have to become comfortable with coronavirus not going away.”

I had thought most of us were already there, but this thought overall is still a post-pandemic scenario. While we're in the middle of a raging inferno, we don't get to sit back and just accept the non-stop level of smoke and fire around us.

Instead, we need to do everything we can to stop the virus from circulating out of control - as it is currently doing. Vaccinations are going to help mitigate complications from infections, but if the data is now telling us that vaccinated people are also spreading the virus then guess what? We need to rely on additional strategies to reduce risk.

If not, things are going to continue to escalate and at some point, potentially get worse - for the vaccinated and unvaccinated as well. I know this is not ideal, but until vaccinations are an option for everyone, I don't know how anyone can shrug their shoulders and move on with their lives as though nothing is happening.

The last I heard was Fauci saying kids as young as 4 years old could get the vaccine sometime by the end of this year or Q1 2022. That’s not good enough.

I'm following this as closely as I can, and I haven't seen anything suggesting vaccinations are going to be offered to anyone younger than 2 anytime soon, just based on the studies currently running. To the degree I am capable, I empathize with your situation as I am not sure how I'd be handling having a child that is too young to be vaccinated other than saying, "not well".

[El Guapo]

Any change in expectations for when 2 - 12 will be authorized? I had heard September 2021 for a long time, then the latest seemed to be mid-winter, which was obviously disappointing.

[Smoove_B]

Dr. Fauci has repeatedly expressed September, but I think he's being hopeful. Everywhere else seems to be hedging on Q1 2022.

I don't know if there's now mounting pressure given Delta to somehow accelerate the process. I'd personally think it would be a better use of political capital right now to push states to reinstate masks and to lean heavy on corporate America to adopt worker vaccination policies and state universities to require it for students, faculty and staff.

The general idea is to keep it a multi-prong approach and not just rely on people to just get vaccinated. We tried that for ~4 months and here we are.

[Paingod]

It seems like the GOP and their supporters may actually fix climate destruction after all. Just not in the way anyone expected.

I'll keep getting whatever vaccines they have to release to combat the new COVID-GOP variants. I can't bring myself to feel sorry for people who have all the tools and options to avoid this but walk into it with their eyes shut, screaming denials. For every other sane person around them who has to deal with them, in hospitals and elsewhere, my deepest condolences and sympathies.

[stessier]

OSHA guidance says

OSHA has stated that employers are obligated to implement multiple controls to protect not-fully-vaccinated employees, visitors, business partners and customers based on CDC guidance.

CDC guidance says that anyone fully vaccinated has face coverings optional (among other things).

So we're asking vaccination status and then managing people's hygiene requirements (which falls to the supervisors). This is going to get interesting.

At least we didn't interpret the OSHA guidance to mean everyone had to remain in face coverings to protect the unvaccinated. While undoubtedly the safest route, I'm not in a particularly charitable mood this week.

We got out of masks at work around 7/12. At that point, our 14 day rolling average was around 2.5 cases/100k. We are now above 6.0 and have to go back into masks if we get above 10. We have until 7/30 to fill out a report on our vaccination status to allow us to remove masks. I'm betting we end up mandated back in them before everyone gets out of them.

Give that man a prize!!

Back to Phase 1 at work as of noon today - everyone in masks regardless of vax status. N95s required inside 6'. Conference room limits, cleaning high touch surfaces...we're back to the very beginning minus the work from home option.

[Archinerd]

I think we are at the point where the vaccines aren't going to be enough to prevent another shut down.
Hold on to your butts.

[malchior]

I think we are at the point where the vaccines aren't going to be enough to prevent another shut down.
Hold on to your butts.

I don't know if there is the political will for shutdowns. People are having meltdowns over masks.

[Paingod]

People are having meltdowns over masks.

Again. Still.

I'm sure it's the same people as the first time. And they'll resist as long as they can. Then they'll complain from the hospital bed that they thought it was all a hoax. Infinite COVID loop.

[LawBeefaroni]

I think we are at the point where the vaccines aren't going to be enough to prevent another shut down.
Hold on to your butts.

I don't know if there is the political will for shutdowns. People are having meltdowns over masks.

The difference, right now anyway, is significantly lower hospitalizations and mortality. That will avoid shutdowns as.long as the rates stay down. Right or wrong.

Infection rate is half-data anyway, since we don't test.

[Skinypupy]

Got a message this morning that my co-worker has improved quite a bit. She actually got admitted on Friday night (miscommunication from my boss) with really low Oxygen levels and a high fever. Spent the weekend in the hospital, and they have been able to get both back to normal. They said that if her blood work comes back normal today, they might actually be able to send her home. She feels completely exhausted and miserable, but they think she should be out of immediate danger. That's really encouraging.

One thing was odd though, they apparently will not tell either her or her primary care doctor if she has the Delta variant or not. The lab has apparently said they know, but won't release that info. That struck me as really strange, but maybe it's common procedure. I have no idea.

Co-worker still in the hospital. Unfortunately, it appears that Mast Cell Activation Syndrome and COVID are a particularly nasty combination (which is why they had been reluctant to have her get the vaccine).

She initially responded well to treatment and was supposed to go home on Monday, but took a turn for the worse and they've ended up keeping her there all week. She's lost both taste and smell, and said she's never felt worse in her entire life. Doesn't appear that it's life-threatening at this point, but she's still in a really bad way and has no idea when her body will recover enough to go home.

[malchior]

I think we are at the point where the vaccines aren't going to be enough to prevent another shut down.
Hold on to your butts.

I don't know if there is the political will for shutdowns. People are having meltdowns over masks.

The difference, right now anyway, is significantly lower hospitalizations and mortality. That will avoid shutdowns as.long as the rates stay down. Right or wrong.

Generally true but there are places seeing the worst hospitalization rate they've seen yet - Louisiana and Missouri off the top of head. I'm not even sure what'd happen if the hospitals nationwide started falling over. I mean aside from the likelihood that it'd be chaotic and uncoordinated.

[LawBeefaroni]

I think we are at the point where the vaccines aren't going to be enough to prevent another shut down.
Hold on to your butts.

I don't know if there is the political will for shutdowns. People are having meltdowns over masks.

The difference, right now anyway, is significantly lower hospitalizations and mortality. That will avoid shutdowns as.long as the rates stay down. Right or wrong.

Generally true but there are places seeing the worst hospitalization rate they've seen yet - Louisiana and Missouri off the top of head. I'm not even sure what'd happen if the hospitals nationwide started falling over. I mean aside from the likelihood that it'd be chaotic and uncoordinated.

Those are mostly unvaccinated hospitalizations in the lowest vax rate regions. As Delta continues north it will hit higher vaxxed populations. Still won't be pretty but will look a bit different than LA and MO. Or so I've been led to believe.

[LordMortis]

Just had my first true aw fuck moment in the last 18 months. We did our first department lunch in forever. I figure, I've eaten in doors three times now. I can do this.

0 masks, employees or patrons
People huddled together table stacked against table.
Every one loud talking in the packed arena to be heard over the din.

And now, I return to not eating out. This 4th experience completely broke me. I am confident in saying I won't be seeing my parents face to face in the next two weeks while I literally let today wash off me.

[Archinerd]

Fine.
Rolling shut downs then, not a blanket shut down.