Tabletop Randomness

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:12 pm

I do worry about everything playing out via social media though. I’m not saying I don’t believe the accusations; and the response, as I noted earlier, seems suspect. But I worry sometimes that someone could use this same action to destroy someone who they simply don’t like, or for monetary reasons.

Edit: I’m seeing more and more people verifying his abuse of others. Sounds like this may have been the only way to bring him to justice after all. Social media still worries me, but I can see it being used in this manner when there simply aren’t any other avenues.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:13 pm

It would be a great opportunity for the entire company - minus the asshole - to take one giant step to the side and create a new company. Hell, offer to buy him out on the factory for a pittance.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:40 pm

Bringing this over from the Kickstarter thread:

malchior wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:53 pm I just got an update on the Frosthaven kickstarter that they've cut their relationship with Broken Token over an accusation of harassment against the CEO of the company by a former employee. This feels pretty drastic. So far there is only a single allegation and it was posted just 2 days ago. Though other businesses are apparently doing the same.

I'm also not a fan of the 'until proven innocent' approach, but the guy's statement in this was very... off. I can understand companies being cautious here, and I can also imagine that some of these companies have avenues that we lack to check some of these things. I've been around enough people in the games industry to know that it's often close knit, that reputations are known, and that lines of communication are open. When large organizations are involved, checking facts becomes even easier. The Game Manufacturer's Association, which was mentioned in the claim (in a positive way), said this:

Which felt, again, like it was on her side on this even if they couldn't openly state it.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:03 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:40 pm Bringing this over from the Kickstarter thread:

malchior wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:53 pm I just got an update on the Frosthaven kickstarter that they've cut their relationship with Broken Token over an accusation of harassment against the CEO of the company by a former employee. This feels pretty drastic. So far there is only a single allegation and it was posted just 2 days ago. Though other businesses are apparently doing the same.
I'm also not a fan of the 'until proven innocent' approach, but the guy's statement in this was very... off. I can understand companies being cautious here, and I can also imagine that some of these companies have avenues that we lack to check some of these things. I've been around enough people in the games industry to know that it's often close knit, that reputations are known, and that lines of communication are open. When large organizations are involved, checking facts becomes even easier. The Game Manufacturer's Association, which was mentioned in the claim (in a positive way), said this:

Which felt, again, like it was on her side on this even if they couldn't openly state it.

Not disagreeing with the general feel but do have some thoughts here. Also sorry I didn't see this posted over here. My take is that this is a serious allegation but I think that kneejerk business decisions based in social justice are a moral/ethical quagmire. While I do agree his statement had a serious red flag, I would have preferred that folks had taken a calmer more measured approach to the allegations which would have less impact on the rest of the business. Demand an investigation, ask for him to take a leave of absence from the company, or other remedies might have been more responsible. Instead this feels very kneejerk to me and it has massive impact on the livelihoods of what maybe a dozen or two people who had absolutely nothing to do with it. I disagree though on the GAMA statement. I don't think it implies anything and think it is pretty much boiler plate.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:08 pm

When the court of public opinion moves at lightning speed, unfortunately I think this is a result. I would hope that he did a reasonable evaluation of the allegations and consulted with others before making a move, but the reality is that he represents such a *huge* portion of independent development and publishing for board games. I'm sure the pressure to (1) acknowledge and (2) take a stand is gigantic. Truth be told, I'd rather he did something like this than waffle for weeks or stay neutral until it's no longer necessarily relevant or important to take a stand.

But you're right - there's always the chance this blows back on him if the allegations are proven to be false. However, I still maintain that she has much more to lose by going public with all this and nothing at all to gain. That alone (ignoring the CEO's comments on FB) makes me more inclined to hear her story and believe her account.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:11 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:08 pmBut you're right - there's always the chance this blows back on him if the allegations are proven to be false. However, I still maintain that she has much more to lose by going public with all this and nothing at all to gain. That alone (ignoring the CEO's comments on FB) makes me more inclined to hear her story and believe her account.

Right and there could be a world where we believe her and not nuke an entire company from orbit. We live in a world where we inflict financial hardship on groups of people with 2 days notice based on a post on medium. I think that is dangerous. I can't help but feel we can both protect people and act with some responsibility towards a wider stakeholder audience.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:25 pm

I don't disagree with that. I'm a believer in benefit of the doubt and not acting without information (and I often play devil's advocate and get yelled at in that regard.) But the statements and responses in this one really have me leaning toward her. I'm still not sure that these companies didn't get on the phone and talk to their guy at GAMA, and their buddy who knows the guy, and their associate who used to work with him, then put it all together and discuss it behind the scenes between companies before they acted. I've seen game designers work that way before.

But at the same time, there's also a huge amount of societal pressure right now not to be the business associate who didn't act on the accusations. Act too soon and you risk doing unnecessary damage. Act too late and you end up sharing the blame (in peoples' eyes.) It really is a mess we've made for ourselves.

And it's a small company. They may not have the kind of organization that can ask him to step down if he doesn't volunteer, or to pay for an investigation unless its coming out of his pocket (which would be an issue, too.) There may be no way to address him without addressing the company (the only estimates I've been able to find is less than ten employees and no leadership structure beyond the owner and a manager.)

I don't know the answer.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:36 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:25 pm I don't know the answer.

Like everything else, this is likely the natural end result of decades of inaction - the pendulum is now fully on the opposite side. I've lost track of the many people that have observed that 10 years ago, Governor Cuomo wouldn't have resigned, all things being equal.

In time things will likely move back towards the center, but I can't argue anymore that these types of responses aren't warranted when you have generations of women (of all ages and all different demographics) detailing what they needed to accept or endure in the work place in order to get a paycheck.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:40 pm

Frosthaven also has consider that Broken Token’s business will be impacted and that may limit performing on the Kickstarter contract.

I expect Gloomhaven and Frosthaven have been big profit drivers at Broken Token. That could also be used as leverage to force change — ie, this stops, settle and wrongs must be righted or the business is moved. And any profit from a Frosthaven insert goes directly to the injured women.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:06 pm

Exactly what I would have liked to have seen. However when you must deliver "justice" to a mob under intense pressure in a day or two you can't really pursue something more nuanced. On the other hand, it doesn't allow the 'good old boys' to sweep the conduct under the rug either. I get that concern since it was the defacto move for many years. I can only hope we discover a reasonable balance because right now I can't help but think this ultimately is destructive.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:32 pm

Using profits from the Gloomhaven and Frosthvaen inserts is still a good idea. It's a way to make the backers whole but then still use their money towards something good. Doing that at the same time of evaluating future contracts / obligations does seem more reasonable though I still think Issac saying something (strongly, definitively) is a smart move.

I guess we'll see.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:14 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:36 pm
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:25 pm I don't know the answer.
Like everything else, this is likely the natural end result of decades of inaction - the pendulum is now fully on the opposite side. I've lost track of the many people that have observed that 10 years ago, Governor Cuomo wouldn't have resigned, all things being equal.

Not to be "that guy" but Elliot Spitzer DID resign as governor of New York, fourteen years ago, for similar charges as Cuomo. And yes, New York has lost two governors within two decades for this sort of stuff.

While, yes, I do believe that people should get a fair trial - if that woman's story is true, then Broken Token has been tainted by this from the start. This is too bad, I actually really liked their inserts. I also feel bad for all of those good employees that helped this woman but are now going to get hurt as the company takes a hit and likely folds.

The bad thing is this hobby (both boardgaming and TTRPG) has been rife with this sort of culture for years. Rampant misogyny, racism, sexual predators, and lots of mental abuse. Everyone knows stories about things that happen at ComicCon, Dragon Con, and - to some extent - GAMA and GenCon. Just like we discussed in another thread, there are types of game genres that attract crowds of bad people like this.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:54 am

Anytime there is a sexual relationship with a subordinate, consent cannot be assumed. Period. She and any other employee he was having sex with can feel coerced and forced into it to keep their job.. He's an idiot and his explanation is total bullshit. I switched to using Folded Spaces inserts years ago and glad I did.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:23 am

baelthazar wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:14 am The bad thing is this hobby (both boardgaming and TTRPG) has been rife with this sort of culture for years. Rampant misogyny, racism, sexual predators, and lots of mental abuse. Everyone knows stories about things that happen at ComicCon, Dragon Con, and - to some extent - GAMA and GenCon. Just like we discussed in another thread, there are types of game genres that attract crowds of bad people like this.

And, as so recently discussed, video games are the same way. The comic book industry as well. Is it all of nerd culture that has an undercurrent of rot?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:15 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:23 am
baelthazar wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:14 am The bad thing is this hobby (both boardgaming and TTRPG) has been rife with this sort of culture for years. Rampant misogyny, racism, sexual predators, and lots of mental abuse. Everyone knows stories about things that happen at ComicCon, Dragon Con, and - to some extent - GAMA and GenCon. Just like we discussed in another thread, there are types of game genres that attract crowds of bad people like this.
And, as so recently discussed, video games are the same way. The comic book industry as well. Is it all of nerd culture that has an undercurrent of rot?

I think we are finding out this is just how *everything* is. I think the question is whether it is just more concentrated in this culture. To fix this things will have to get better society wide. Unfortunately this is being polarized like every other problem and will resist change.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:28 am

I think it is more concentrated in gaming/geek culture because of how white male dominated the industry has been from the beginning. There were extremely important contributions from others but they were rarely allowed to share the stage. Thus, games tended to be male power fantasies and there was a distinct lack of character choices and representation. It was hard to break into these zones - I can’t imagine what women and minorities going to a 90s gaming convention faced.

I still remember when RPGs made female characters default to lower strength scores but higher charisma/beauty scores. Think about how big a deal it was when people found that code that revealed Samus was a woman, it was like “what a surprise, a woman hero!” Pages of articles and full-page photo spreads were done on Stevie Case, because she was an attractive female developer in the 90s.

So, I do think the culture of gaming was openly all this and in a stronger way than other areas. It was also fed by the general social gender norms - “girls don’t play video games/roleplaying games/board games they play with dolls/makeup/clothes/kitchens.” It was a big deal some ten years ago when Target removed the “Toys for Boys” (action figures/guns/normal legos) and Toys for Girls (everything pink/stuffed animals/dolls/kitchen and home themed legos).

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:49 am

baelthazar wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:14 am Not to be "that guy" but Elliot Spitzer DID resign as governor of New York, fourteen years ago, for similar charges as Cuomo. And yes, New York has lost two governors within two decades for this sort of stuff.

Spitzer resigned when the feds caught him using high-end prostitutes. I am not aware of sexual harassment charges ever being levied against him by coworkers or subordinates, though I could just be forgetting things.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:22 pm

And Carlos Danger went to jail for naming himself Carlos Danger.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:36 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
baelthazar wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:14 am Not to be "that guy" but Elliot Spitzer DID resign as governor of New York, fourteen years ago, for similar charges as Cuomo. And yes, New York has lost two governors within two decades for this sort of stuff.
Spitzer resigned when the feds caught him using high-end prostitutes. I am not aware of sexual harassment charges ever being levied against him by coworkers or subordinates, though I could just be forgetting things.

I was thinking more along the lines of using the power of their posts for their predatory activities, but yeah, they aren’t exactly the same. But ugh, I forgot Carlos Danger was also New York. Speaking of bad cultures, I think New York politics might be an example.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:20 am

The Queen's Gambit: Das Damengambit: Das Brettspiel

or in English, The Queen's Gambit: The Queen's Gambit: The Boardgame

Seems like a weird decision? I mean, if you're going to sell a game based on a TV series about chess, why not just sell... chess.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:49 am

If only that show was based on a popular board game!

Maybe it is trying to simulate was high-level chess is like for normal people like me?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:27 am

Robo Rally Chess!

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:12 pm

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:52 am

We knew it was coming, but this is the first publisher-wide announcement I've seen regarding prices:

Asmodee, the parent company for publishers such as Fantasy Flight Games - the studio behind the aforementioned Arkham Horror: Third Edition - and Star Wars: X-Wing makers Atomic Mass Games, has announced that several key titles from its catalogue will see an increase from their usual retail release price.

These tabletop titles include the games mentioned above - with Arkham Horror: Third Edition increasing from $69.95 (£50) to $79.99 (£58), Cosmic Encounter going from $59.95 (£43) to $69.99 (£50) and Mansions of Madness: Second Edition rising from $99.95 (£72) to $109.00 (£79) - as well as many other recognisable releases from both Fantasy Flight and Atomic Mass such as the classic horror board game Elder Sign, Marvel Champions: The Card Game and Dead of Winter.

A reminder:

According to Asmodee, the price increases on its products are due to the current shipping issues and resource shortages being faced by tabletop gaming publishers and companies.

I'm guessing demand for used games will to surge as well.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:04 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:52 am
According to Asmodee, the price increases on its products are due to the current shipping issues and resource shortages being faced by tabletop gaming publishers and companies.

I'm sure that once the market has adjusted to the new prices and the current world crisis is over, they'll drop them right back down.

Right?

...guys?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:27 am

I guess we'll see in ~2024 or so how that works out.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:17 pm

Not quite what I was expecting:

Tracy Hickman and Laura Hickman, the husband and wife team behind the original Dragonlance and Ravenloft settings, have announced a new and ambitious project. Called Skyraiders of Abarax, it’s described as a “5E-compatible experience” that will be “discovered through magical books.” The project will appear on Kickstarter this fall.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:55 am

Oh boy...I knew it was coming, but hopefully we get more information soon - it's the fantasy themed version of Core Space...

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:35 pm

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:00 pm

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:08 pm

That made me laugh. What a great gif.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:10 pm

I use it daily in so many places in various capacities. It's surprisingly versatile.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:10 pm

I wish I had waited for the fantasy version. I really haven't played my copy of Core Space enough to have made it worth the investment. But I don't blame the game - I've never been a big sci-fi fan, so I was taking a risk with the theme going in.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:01 pm

I could see combining that with my Warlock tiles for a pretty awesome tabletop game.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:12 am

Well...that's not encouraging. Ravensburger taking no new orders after Sept 17 due to supply chain issues.

To make that decision as the holiday season is ramping up would indicate that the situation is dire indeed.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:29 am

Yikes. Everything I've been reading/following from KS projects has repeatedly suggested Q4 shipping is worse than prior months - demand is still insanely high and shipping containers are priced at absurd levels. So yeah, not just board gaming but anything and everything related to American holiday spending is in jeopardy. That's the first board game specific article I've seen though from a publisher where they're flat out just not taking more orders. Wow.

EDIT: Yeah, I just received an update for a KS that will arrive in the US in the next two weeks, but they don't think it will actually start to be delivered to backers until some time in November. This is for a series of RPG books, which IMHO is way easier to ship than board games.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:54 am

If you read the article, they admit to having warehouse problems. It suggests even if they got containers, they couldn’t get product to buyers. So there’s no profit in adding to the back log.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:17 pm

The Sleeve Kings Premium Sleeves KS said yesterday that US backers will be waiting until around November (they think Black Friday time period) for their fulfillment. Even though other parts of the world are getting their ships, the US ship has been sitting in Singapore for around a month and the updated itinerary has it sitting there even longer.

And this is just sleeves.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:18 pm

Has anyone tried Bolt Action? I'm don't have any real plans in that direction, but it looks kind of appealing. What kind of table size in required, and about how much is the buy-in (assuming solo play?)

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:02 pm

Blackhawk wrote:Has anyone tried Bolt Action? I'm don't have any real plans in that direction, but it looks kind of appealing. What kind of table size in required, and about how much is the buy-in (assuming solo play?)

My buddy Tommy (who’s my go-to for WWII) looked at Bolt Action but bypassed it for Chain of Command. No clue if it’s solo friendly, but that’s his game now. I played about half a game 2 weeks ago, and enjoyed myself.