The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[malchior]

You’re no longer trapped by taking care of your mother. There are ways out that don’t depend on the government.

I'm more than ok with people taking help when they need it. However, then turn around and whine about how the system is failing them? Talk about hubris.

So Valentine finally kicked the bucket huh? He himself said that him getting covid and it killing him was less than a half a percent chance. Must not have been covid Why, just ask his listeners.

That is ultimate sacrifice. Maybe the mathematical chances were small but he died a free man for stiggint.

[Daehawk]

[LordMortis]

Sneeze three PO. If he's going to have a fit like that, he should be wearing a mask.

[Smoove_B]

https://twitter.com/marynmck/status/1429497448809050119

Universities that have vaccination mandates for students are reporting coverage that is astonishingly higher than the vaccination rate of that overall age cohort, and I just wonder whether anyone has noticed this is also a group that has long acquaintance with fake IDs.

[Max Peck]

The article sounds like they're playing free and loose with the term breakthrough. They seem to mean it in the sense of testing positive rather than serious illness, with the entire student population being tested within the first week of arrival. The university isn't releasing the numbers, so it's hard to say whether the positivity rate is actually unusually high as opposed to simply being higher than the university was expecting.

[Smoove_B]

Yes - using it when it isn't *technically* correct has been happening all along. The problem is that we're still not routinely testing asymptomatic people that are vaccinated so we have no idea how many to expect that would test positive as potentially carrying the virus but aren't themselves infectious. It could turn out quite a few of us are carrying it around, even Delta. The difference with Delta is that it seems to have dramatically increased the chances of symptoms and people noticing something (i.e. they might have it) in vaccinated populations.

My own employer has reported a similar level of vaccination compliance in the student body (~98%). I want to believe this is a group of people highly motivated to do the right thing and get back to campus. However, I also trust no one and am confident there's more than a few fake documents that were submitted. Unless schools/employers/businesses are getting certified data -or- are being given certifications from a 3rd party that the data submitted is accurate, I have a feeling we're about to find out colleges around the U.S. are going to have a very different semester than they are currently planning. Instead, everything was self-submitted and as far as I'm aware, no audit or verification was ever performed. Just a simple checkbox that's clicked saying information provided is true. The honor system does not work.

This is why public health agents have been going into K-12 schools and conducting vaccination audits for decades. Not only to make sure people are submitting paperwork, but that the information being provided is true.

[malchior]

Hopefully that moves the needle somewhat on hesitancy.

https://twitter.com/tylerpager/status/1 ... 5280199688

[Dramatist]

Hopefully that moves the needle somewhat on hesitancy.

https://twitter.com/tylerpager/status/1 ... 5280199688

Hooray! I share your somewhat hopefulness.


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[Zaxxon]

New York quick on the follow-up to full approval this morning...

NYC requiring all education staff to have received at least one dose by 9/27, with no option to instead submit to testing.

[Defiant]

I think mandates imposed because of this full approval will push much more hesitant people than the approval itself will.

[Octavious]

Considering there's a thread on Foxnews complaining that they are being told not to take horse drugs, I'm not exactly getting my hopes up.

[LordMortis]

Hopefully that moves the needle somewhat on hesitancy.

Hopefully it moves the needle on whatever is influencing my mother's decision making process.

[El Guapo]

I think mandates imposed because of this full approval will push much more hesitant people than the approval itself will.

Yeah, I think that's right. I assume a handful of people will be persuaded by this. But I think there's a large group that will just come up with different reasons not to take it. I also think there's a larger group that will begrudgingly get vaccinated if not doing so becomes too inconvenient for the things that they want to do.

[Smoove_B]

Military:

https://twitter.com/laraseligman/status ... 2998373382

BREAKING: Pentagon will now mandate all troops be vaccinated against Covid-19, following the FDA's full approval of the Pfizer shot, says @PentagonPresSec

[LawBeefaroni]

Some large labor unions will probably pivot as well. They will no longer have EUA as an excuse.

[Smoove_B]

Yes. My money is on the private sector, schools, insurance companies, etc... increasing uptake. Not a "wave" of hesitant individuals that are now going to overwhelm vaccination centers because the FDA gave a thumbs-up.

And at least we know what Fox news spent all weekend working on:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1429809303716864001

And there go the goalposts

[LawBeefaroni]

Yes. My money is on the private sector, schools, insurance companies, etc... increasing uptake. Not a "wave" of hesitant individuals that are now going to overwhelm vaccination centers because the FDA gave a thumbs-up.

And at least we know what Fox news spent all weekend working on:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1429809303716864001

And there go the goalposts

If I wanted to spend 10 seconds at Fox News, I'm sure I could find a headline praising Trump for pushing for speedy approval.

[malchior]

Yes. My money is on the private sector, schools, insurance companies, etc... increasing uptake. Not a "wave" of hesitant individuals that are now going to overwhelm vaccination centers because the FDA gave a thumbs-up.

This sounds right in retrospect especially in combination with the key word of money.

[Alefroth]

I think mandates imposed because of this full approval will push much more hesitant people than the approval itself will.

Yeah, I think that's right. I assume a handful of people will be persuaded by this. But I think there's a large group that will just come up with different reasons not to take it. I also think there's a larger group that will begrudgingly get vaccinated if not doing so becomes too inconvenient for the things that they want to do.

I imagine most of the hesitant will just distrust this approval and claim it was rushed and/or politically motivated.

edit: And then I read the rest of the thread.

[Smoove_B]

Not sure if his Italy trip and Henri is delaying word from our Governor, but he really needs to step up and start mandating it for teachers. Then State Police. Then locals. Anyone on a public retirement/pension. Childcare employees. I'm waiting to see the first major private employer in our state to mandate it (J&J? Bank of America? CVS? Prudential?) and that will hopefully start the ball moving...

EDIT: UA already did...

EDIT #2 - it's like he's listening to me and only me. For NJ:

NEW: All preschool-through-12 school personnel are required to complete a full vaccination course or undergo regular testing at a minimum of once to twice each week.

Full compliance is required by October 18th.

EDIT #3: Big day

All state employees – including those at state agencies, authorities, and public colleges and universities – are required to complete a full vaccination course or undergo regular testing at a minimum of once to twice each week.

Full compliance is required by October 18th.

[LordMortis]

Just got back from the dentist. My last visit, 4 months ago, they had you locked down at the door with questionnaires and temp takin. You had phone before coming in.

Today, the office staff weren't wearing masks. Two of us in the waiting room were wearing masks... There were probably 8 of us in the waiting room. I'm still totally not ready for this. We're still largely done with a virus that still isn't done with us. My workplace is hardly a liberal bastion but at least we still require masks when you leave your work space, even if plenty pay lip service... Nose service? We still do questionnaires and still take temp, even if pretty much only care about the non vaccinated feedback into that system.

/checks worldometers... Sure enough we've been trending back up since mid July.

Here's to hoping the approval of pfizer gets more shots in arms and specifically a couple of shots in my mother's arm.

[YellowKing]

My daughter (12) got her first shot yesterday. Has there been any word on whether full approval will lead to them lowering the age limit?

[LawBeefaroni]

My daughter (12) got her first shot yesterday. Has there been any word on whether full approval will lead to them lowering the age limit?

Full approval doesn't have impact on ages outside of the approved range. Under 12s are on a different approval track.

[Smoove_B]

No. But I did see some chatter about how a fully approved vaccine might allow a doctor to go "off label" and give it to an 11 year old. I doubt it would happen widely, but if I had a kid that was going to be 12 in the next six months, I'd likely be calling my pediatrician and asking.

Unrelated, but amazingly the usual suspects from the party of personal responsibility are apparently quite upset that teachers and government workers are being mandated to get the vaccine or submit to testing. Weird, right?

[coopasonic]

No. But I did see some chatter about how a fully approved vaccine might allow a doctor to go "off label" and give it to an 11 year old. I doubt it would happen widely, but if I had a kid that was going to be 12 in the next six months, I'd likely be calling my pediatrician and asking.

I was about to send this to my wife, but then I'm thinking his birthday is in 16 days... we probably couldn't get in before then anyway. I guess I should be happy that it could be harder to get him an appt for the vaccine because people are moving on it again.

[LawBeefaroni]

Good news everybody!

Dr. Scott Gottlieb told CNBC on Monday he believes the delta variant-driven Covid surge that slammed the American South has reached a top.

"I thought there was an indication the South was peaking, and I think it's pretty clear right now the South has peaked," the former Food and Drug Administration commissioner said. "It doesn't feel that way because we still have a lot of new infections on a day-over-day basis, and the hospitals still have some very hard weeks ahead," he acknowledged. "They're still going to get maxed out as the infections start to decline."

[LordMortis]

It doesn't feel that way because we still have a lot of new infections on a day-over-day basis

What usage of the word peaked is he basing his statement on? I don't dislike Gottlieb as others seem to, and I hold is position on the Pfizer board as a cautionary listen, but that quote has sort of lost me.

Also, from the ignorant seats in the bleachers, I believe all of the in person schooling and then holiday after holiday after holiday will put his statement to the test. My hope is to be wrong, that infection spread plus vaccination eventually sees a nice leveling but my state seems to keep urinating on my hopes.

[malchior]

Good news everybody!

Dr. Scott Gottlieb told CNBC on Monday he believes the delta variant-driven Covid surge that slammed the American South has reached a top.

"I thought there was an indication the South was peaking, and I think it's pretty clear right now the South has peaked," the former Food and Drug Administration commissioner said. "It doesn't feel that way because we still have a lot of new infections on a day-over-day basis, and the hospitals still have some very hard weeks ahead," he acknowledged. "They're still going to get maxed out as the infections start to decline."

I'll take it with a grain of salt - he's pretty much guessing out loud.

MON, JUL 26 2021

Dr. Scott Gottlieb told CNBC on Monday he expects rising U.S. coronavirus cases, linked to the highly transmissible delta variant, to start declining in the next two to three weeks, pointing to the U.K.’s fall in infections as evidence for what may play out in America.

England’s experience during the pandemic has been viewed a harbinger for the U.S. and other countries, offering insight into how new strains of the virus may spread later on.

“I think the more observable trend is what’s going on in the United Kingdom, where cases are clearly coming down at this point. There’s a very clear trend down. It seems like they’ve peaked,” Gottlieb said in an interview on “Squawk Box.”

The U.K.’s seven-day average of new infections reached roughly 47,700 on July 18, after a steady increase beginning in late May, according to government data. Cases have started to fall in recent days, with 29,173 being reported Sunday.

“If the U.K. is turning the corner, it’s a pretty good indication that maybe we’re further into this than we think and maybe we’re two or three weeks away from starting to see our own plateau here in the United States,” said Gottlieb, who led the Food and Drug Administration commissioner from 2017 to 2019 in the Trump administration.

[Smoove_B]

I'm not one to normally disagree with doctors and former heads of federal organizations, however using the India and UK data to guess at what is happening in America hasn't worked out great so far - other than to demonstrate that Delta ripped quick through unvaccinated people.

Let's see what happens when schools resume nationwide in a few more weeks before declaring the peak is over. I mean, I hope he's right, but I am genuinely in knots over what's about to potentially happen.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Way to bring me down, Smoove. And just as I had unfurled my Mission Accomplished sign.

[malchior]

Even if the shape of our curve was like the UK it isn't very good news. The UK fell to about 50% peak over 2 weeks between mid-July to early August and has been steadily increasing back toward peak but not nearly as sharply.

[Kraken]

Let's see what happens when schools resume nationwide in a few more weeks before declaring the peak is over. I mean, I hope he's right, but I am genuinely in knots over what's about to potentially happen.

Yeah, I have a feeling we're on the verge of a turbo-surge. Cold weather is coming, and bringing its holidays, starting with Halloween in just a couple of months. Let's hope all the new vaccine and mask mandates will counterbalance that, at least in the blue states.

[Paingod]

I don't want her to die.

This. And it's why I both push the vaccine and compassion for everyone.

Mom's wear's her mask and keeps up hygiene. She out there doing high stress and unhygienic community work for people she has no relationship with and will never meet again. She does it because she loves the living. She may very well love the living for the glory of God but it does not change how intrinsically good she is. And she won't get vaccinated.

I don't want her to die.

I don't want her to die either. While she's being awesome and unvaccinated, if/when she catches COVID she'll pass it right on to other people. A mask isn't a guarantee. In turn those people may pass it on to hundreds and then thousands. In loving the living, she may very well make quite a few of them them stop being that. It's just the way the virus works. Every single person who won't get vaccinated for reasons becomes another glowing node in an endless chain of unnecessary deaths and overworked medical professionals. They may not die themselves, but the virus they hand off will eventually kill someone.

I'm not comfortable with that weighing on me. I've never once thought I was at risk of dying from COVID, or even having a particularly bad episode. I'm relatively young and lack any risk-multiplying factors. I just didn't want others down the line to die after I had gotten over my sniffles and they were experiencing multiple organ failure with my fingerprints on it. You don't even have to be a hero. You just have to show up, sit down, feel a pinch, and walk away.

I suppose that's why I get so angry at all the anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers. They'll get sick. They may live. Someone else down the line won't. Maybe someone's immunocompromised child. Maybe someone who was vaccinated and had a breakthrough case. All of it largely avoidable with one or two shots and some minor inconvenience.

[Isgrimnur]

I'm not one to normally disagree with doctors and former heads of federal organizations, however using the India and UK data to guess at what is happening in America hasn't worked out great so far - other than to demonstrate that Delta ripped quick through unvaccinated people.

Next up, extrapolating from New Zealand!

[LordMortis]

My cousin got married in Kentucky a few weeks ago. The non vaccinated side of family mostly went down (and came up etc...). Fortunately, my parents were unable to attend. My cousin just got put into medically induced coma. A number of my 2nd cousins are hospitalized. My aunt and uncle, neighbors to my parents have COVID and have been spending time at my parents house umasked. Dad's not happy but mom still isn't seeing needle move. I don't think I'm going to sleep tonight.

[Zaxxon]

Ugggghhh.

[Paingod]

That's ... just horrible. I'm sorry for what you're going through.

[TheMix]

That's ... just horrible. I'm sorry for what you're going through.

This. That's heartbreaking.

[Kraken]

That's ... just horrible. I'm sorry for what you're going through.

This. That's heartbreaking.

Yes, sorry to read it, LM.

[Alefroth]

That's really awful. Whenever I can't sleep, I turn to https://www.mypillow.com/