The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[Defiant]

I sometimes wonder how bad this would be and far would it get if it dropped in the center of the Rome at the height of the Roman Empire. No planes and stuff. Traveling took weeks and months. There would be no vaccines though.

My guess is that it would reach the entire known world, especially along trade routes (so I guess all of Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, India, China, etc), but it would take years (it could also return in waves like other plagues - how long would natural immunity last?). In terms of how bad it would have been, on the one hand, I would imagine anyone who would need to be hospitalized in our time would die back the, so anyone seriously ill would be much less likely to survive. On the other hand, given a lower average age, I would figure there were a lot smaller percentage of people in their 60s or older so less of the population would be especially vulnerable. It almost certainly wouldn't have been as bad as the black death, for comparison.

[Drazzil]

I sometimes wonder how bad this would be and far would it get if it dropped in the center of the Rome at the height of the Roman Empire. No planes and stuff. Traveling took weeks and months. There would be no vaccines though.

My guess is that it would reach the entire known world, especially along trade routes (so I guess all of Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, India, China, etc), but it would take years (it could also return in waves like other plagues - how long would natural immunity last?). In terms of how bad it would have been, on the one hand, I would imagine anyone who would need to be hospitalized in our time would die back the, so anyone seriously ill would be much less likely to survive. On the other hand, given a lower average age, I would figure there were a lot smaller percentage of people in their 60s or older so less of the population would be especially vulnerable. It almost certainly wouldn't have been as bad as the black death, for comparison.

Much less population density means it would definitely affect the cities but I think because of the slower rate of travel back then it wouldn't be as bad. Two week incubation period would mean a lot of people would die on the roads trying to reach the next town. Who knows?

[Formix]

I sometimes wonder how bad this would be and far would it get if it dropped in the center of the Rome at the height of the Roman Empire. No planes and stuff. Traveling took weeks and months. There would be no vaccines though.

I would buy this Civ V / Pandemic expansion.

[LordMortis]

Sixty-nine studies were included, describing 57,420 adult patients with COVID-19 who received IMV [invasive mechanical ventilation]. Overall reported CFR [case fatality rates] was estimated as 45% (95% confidence interval [CI], 39-52%). Fifty-four of 69 studies stated whether hospital outcomes were available but provided a definitive hospital outcome on only 13,120 (22.8%) of the total IMV patient population. Among studies in which age-stratified CFR was available, pooled CFR estimates ranged from 47.9% (95% CI, 46.4-49.4%) in younger patients (age ≤40 yr) to 84.4% (95% CI, 83.3-85.4%) in older patients (age >80 yr).

I guess 50/50 isn't a death sentence I assume that includes earlier cases where people were dying more.

Watch the world die, indeed.

With my big black boots and my old suitcase, I do believe I'll find myself a new place...

[Skinypupy]

He seems nice.

https://twitter.com/ScooterCasterNY/sta ... 2224869393

"I'm going in there with 20 strong men, I'm going to speak to the school board and I'm going to give them an option. They can leave or they can be removed " said Steve Lynch who is running for PA Governor, "Make men men again", he said during Freedom Rally today.

[LawBeefaroni]

The bully-ification of politics. The only way to deal with this is meet them with equal [legal] force. They threaten to being "20 strong men", you bring 20 law enforcement officers.

[Kurth]

Real tough guy, there. I’d like to see him and his “12 Strong Men” try to do what he’s talking about. Just a whole bunch of bluster from someone who’s not going to do a goddamn thing. Same goes for the idiots watching him. Disgusting and pathetic.

[Smoove_B]

What in the hell is this nonsense, Ohio?

A Butler County judge ruled in favor of a woman last week who sought to force a hospital to administer Ivermectin — an animal dewormer that federal regulators have warned against using in COVID-19 patients — to her husband after several weeks in the ICU with the disease.

Butler County Common Pleas Judge Gregory Howard ordered West Chester Hospital, part of the University of Cincinnati network, to treat Jeffrey Smith, 51, with Ivermectin. The order, filed Aug. 23, compels the hospital to provide Smith with 30mg of Ivermectin daily for three weeks.

[Skinypupy]

So judges now get to decide on and mandate specific medical treatments? What could possibly go wrong there?

[LawBeefaroni]

So judges now get to decide on and mandate specific medical treatments? What could possibly go wrong there?

"Sorry, we don't have any veterinarians on staff. We'll prepare a transfer to the Parma Animal Hospital right away!"

[Smoove_B]

Things just got interesting. A month too late, but still interesting.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status ... 4043126785

Breaking:

WASHINGTON (AP) — Education Department opens civil rights investigations against five states that bar mask mandates for schools.

States being investigated:

Iowa
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Tennessee
Utah

[stessier]

Things just got interesting. A month too late, but still interesting.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status ... 4043126785

Breaking:

WASHINGTON (AP) — Education Department opens civil rights investigations against five states that bar mask mandates for schools.

States being investigated:

Iowa
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Tennessee
Utah

Finally. They have to go faster though.

My wife forced me to take my daughter to Girl Scouts this weekend because we were told it would be masked and outdoors. It was not. There were 16 of us in a room clearly labeled with an occupancy of 8. The leader started by asking how many had been in quarantine at some point - we were the only one's not to raise our hands. She also said they hoped to keep meeting in person unless COVID got bad. Our county has a 7-day moving average of 86/100k. We were at 2/100k on July 14th.

[Blackhawk]

So my kids school just made masks (mostly) mandatory (they're still optional in the halls during passing p[eriods.. .) It's giving me a chuckle - they were so anti-mask until they had to start dealing with compound contract tracing and it ground them into the floor. Then they were told that masking +6' meant that person could be excluded from contact tracing (I don't know if that's true or not, but still...) and they mandated masks.

[Blackhawk]

He seems nice.

https://twitter.com/ScooterCasterNY/sta ... 2224869393

"I'm going in there with 20 strong men, I'm going to speak to the school board and I'm going to give them an option. They can leave or they can be removed " said Steve Lynch who is running for PA Governor, "Make men men again", he said during Freedom Rally today.

Men were never men. Men were shallow caricatures of men.

And yes, take your twelve strong men, go into a school board meeting, and start dragging them out. Then you can run for office while in prison for some combination of battery, false arrest, kidnapping, and/or criminal confinement.

[coopasonic]

S It's giving me a chuckle - they were so anti-mask until they had to start dealing with compound contract tracing and it ground them into the floor.

Our schools AREN'T ALLOWED TO DO CONTACT TRACING. Oops did I leave Caps lock on there?

[raydude]

Things just got interesting. A month too late, but still interesting.

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status ... 4043126785

Breaking:

WASHINGTON (AP) — Education Department opens civil rights investigations against five states that bar mask mandates for schools.

States being investigated:

Iowa
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Tennessee
Utah

Finally. They have to go faster though.

My wife forced me to take my daughter to Girl Scouts this weekend because we were told it would be masked and outdoors. It was not. There were 16 of us in a room clearly labeled with an occupancy of 8. The leader started by asking how many had been in quarantine at some point - we were the only one's not to raise our hands. She also said they hoped to keep meeting in person unless COVID got bad. Our county has a 7-day moving average of 86/100k. We were at 2/100k on July 14th.

So, I'm guessing "no" on further Girl Scout meetings? On a somewhat related note, my wife and I initially RSVPed "yes" to her friend's wedding reception. They were already married but they put off the reception due to Covid. Then earlier this year when things started to look better they booked a place and announced a date for mid-September. Large reception in a ballroom of a fancy hotel. My wife is already starting to think it's a bad idea, and I told her "If you have a bad feeling about this we can tell them no."

I'm thinking the friend will understand, given that she's also in the medical field.

[Skinypupy]

I'll likely be skipping the first Utah football home opener in 18 years this week. The school announced there will be no mask mandates or vaccination requirements for the game. After reading hundreds of comments about how people are excited to be "proud to be yelling at the top of their lungs with no masks", I don't know that I can do it...even if I'm wearing my own.

[Kasey Chang]

So judges now get to decide on and mandate specific medical treatments? What could possibly go wrong there?

Wasn't the republicans that screamed about "death panels" to rant against Obamacare?

[Kasey Chang]

Antivax Georgia police captain who touted ivermectin and his lack of vaccination has died from COVID.

[Daehawk]

Despite court's decision, Florida withholds school board salaries over mask mandates

[El Guapo]

Despite court's decision, Florida withholds school board salaries over mask mandates

Jared Ochs, the director of communications for the state's Department of Education, told NBC News in an email Tuesday that the school funds have been withheld since Thursday.

"Our Department plans on continuing to follow the rule of law until such time as the Court issues its ruling, and subsequent to that ruling, we plan on immediately appealing this decision to the First DCA, from which we will seek to stay the ruling," he said.

I'm a little confused from the article about whether they're defying the court order or not.

[Isgrimnur]

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/sch ... s/2538847/

Leon County Circuit Judge John Cooper ruled the state has to give school districts due process and allow them to show their mandatory mask mandates are reasonable.

The executive order and rule “does not meet constitutional muster” and are being used in an “arbitrary and capricious” manner, Cooper said.
...
He granted an injunction against the education commissioner, Department of Education and the state Board of Education, prohibiting them from violating the Parents’ Bill of Rights (PBOR) by taking any action to effect a blanket ban on face masks mandates.

He also enjoined them from enforcing the executive order and the policies it generated which violate the PBOR by not giving districts an opportunity to show its actions are reasonable.

[El Guapo]

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/sch ... s/2538847/

Leon County Circuit Judge John Cooper ruled the state has to give school districts due process and allow them to show their mandatory mask mandates are reasonable.

The executive order and rule “does not meet constitutional muster” and are being used in an “arbitrary and capricious” manner, Cooper said.
...
He granted an injunction against the education commissioner, Department of Education and the state Board of Education, prohibiting them from violating the Parents’ Bill of Rights (PBOR) by taking any action to effect a blanket ban on face masks mandates.

He also enjoined them from enforcing the executive order and the policies it generated which violate the PBOR by not giving districts an opportunity to show its actions are reasonable.

Yeah I know about the court ruling, the question is whether the state is defying it or not. The headline implies that they are, but the part I quoted suggests that they're not planning to (but will appeal).

[malchior]

If he isn't defying a direct order, DeSantis seems to be skirting around the edge of the spirit of it. It reads to me like they can't withhold funds without a review process for 'reasonableness'. They are seemingly withholding funds nonetheless. Also, I'll leave it as an academic exercise to ponder what reasonable is going to look like to someone in DeSantis' orbit.

[El Guapo]

If he isn't defying a direct order, DeSantis seems to be skirting around the edge of the spirit of it. It reads to me like they can't withhold funds without a review process for 'reasonableness'. They are seemingly withholding funds nonetheless. Also, I'll leave it as an academic exercise to ponder what reasonable is going to look like to someone in DeSantis' orbit.

If I understand the ruling correctly, the order was unconstitutional because it omitted any review process. So DeSantis would need to issue a new order if he's not defying the court order - he can't just conduct a reasonableness process.

[malchior]

That is my take as well. I haven't seen anything about an appeal that'd change the calculus either. I guess we'll see when they inevitably petition for relief.

[Zaxxon]

In a rather remarkable meeting last night, our local health board pushed back against our crazy county commissioners. They removed the county-level opt-out provision while also expanding the mask mandate from 2-11 to all childcare/school settings.

Awesome. Unfortunately the long-term effect may be to nuke this health board altogether as the counties move to doing their own thing, whatever form that ultimately takes.

The two Douglas representatives on the board voted against both measures (of course), completely losing their composure in the process. (One went on an extended rant / motion-making spree claiming that the board was being unduly influenced, the meeting should be stricken from the record, etc, while the other got visibly angry and ranted about how we're both protecting the 'wrong' demographic as well as 'punishing the children.')

I weep for our future, but at least I can take solace in the fact that my children will in all likelihood now have a 'safe' school setting until they can get the vaccine, assuming it hits by EoY.

[El Guapo]

ranted about how we're both protecting the 'wrong' demographic

Good lord.

[Jaymon]

It would not surprise me, and I highly encourage it, for Florida teachers and staff to stage a massive walkout.
Every teacher I ever met was quite concerned about kids, and extremely fond of keeping them healthy and safe. (I know there are exceptions, but I have not personally met every teacher on the planet)

Would a statewide walkout cause massive hardships for millions of families? Yes it would. But, is that more or less hardship than the current plan of willingly exposing every family to covid?

[Isgrimnur]

Denver

Kevin Bracken, the newest board member representing Douglas County, said the board was trying to mask “the wrong demographic,” arguing children are not as vulnerable of a population as the elderly, 70-plus population.

“This board is completely missing the mark on protecting the people that are vulnerable. … You’re making (children) wear masks to protect someone at home when the person at home should be protecting themselves,” he said.

[Skinypupy]

https://twitter.com/rob_sheridan/status ... 0748116998

[Smoove_B]

In a rather remarkable meeting last night, our local health board pushed back against our crazy county commissioners. They removed the county-level opt-out provision while also expanding the mask mandate from 2-11 to all childcare/school settings.

From the article:

“You are, and we are, collectively masking the wrong demographic,” said Kevin Bracken, who hours earlier was appointed as an iterim board member from Douglas County.

What type of sorcery is this? How did this "interim" appointment take place? When someone is magically appointed and then immediately votes like a lunatic, that's a red flag.

Regardless, I'm happy to read your local health authorities are pushing back, despite knowing what's likely coming. Nothing but respect for folks actively doing something (anything) right now, trying to move the needle.

[Isgrimnur]

[El Guapo]

In a rather remarkable meeting last night, our local health board pushed back against our crazy county commissioners. They removed the county-level opt-out provision while also expanding the mask mandate from 2-11 to all childcare/school settings.

From the article:

“You are, and we are, collectively masking the wrong demographic,” said Kevin Bracken, who hours earlier was appointed as an iterim board member from Douglas County.

What type of sorcery is this? How did this "interim" appointment take place? When someone is magically appointed and then immediately votes like a lunatic, that's a red flag.

Regardless, I'm happy to read your local health authorities are pushing back, despite knowing what's likely coming. Nothing but respect for folks actively doing something (anything) right now, trying to move the needle.

Well, that's not nearly as bad as I feared when I read about a crazy person ranting about "the wrong demographic'.

[Smoove_B]

He's still a moron because the demographic for spreading the virus is "human" - which is what masks are trying to stop from happening.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

[Daehawk]

McConnell urges Americans to get vaccinated in new TV PSA

To break that down from political speak it basically says "I need my fellow deplorables to stop being deplorable long enough to get vaccinated so you can stay alive. We need living deplorables to vote for us deplorables in DC next term. So stop dying.

[Zaxxon]

What type of sorcery is this? How did this "interim" appointment take place? When someone is magically appointed and then immediately votes like a lunatic, that's a red flag.

To put the cherry on top, the prior person in that spot resigned because he works for our county school board, and thought voting on mask mandates would be a conflict of interest. I don't see it, but bottom line is he was abstaining rather than voting against. So the county commissioners had to get a yes man in there (or, rather, a no man).

Well, that's not nearly as bad as I feared when I read about a crazy person ranting about "the wrong demographic'.

True. In my defense, he did use that phrase.

He's still a moron because the demographic for spreading the virus is "human" - which is what masks are trying to stop from happening.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Absolutely. And it was clear based on his discussion last night (gods help me, I'm gonna need more beer if I keep attending these meetings) that he's on the 'if they're not being hospitalized or dying, they're not at risk' bandwagon. Which explains his viewpoint, and also reveals that he does not understand the situation at all. So, I guess good for him for getting onto a health board representing over 1M people?

[El Guapo]

McConnell urges Americans to get vaccinated in new TV PSA

To break that down from political speak it basically says "I need my fellow deplorables to stop being deplorable long enough to get vaccinated so you can stay alive. We need living deplorables to vote for us deplorables in DC next term. So stop dying.

"Look, we've exceeded the COVID rate at which it would be merely embarrassing for the Biden administration, and reached the point at which it is hurting big businesses. So we need to tamp it down at least somewhat."

[Isgrimnur]

Hey, Smoove! Tell us about 'ropeworms'!

[Daehawk]

Hey, Smoove! Tell us about 'ropeworms'!

Is that when tapeworms enter the rodeo?