Marvel's Midnight Suns [Firaxis]

[coopasonic]

I do. I guess I've just come to accept the convention. Buttons and APs aren't "realistic" either. This doesn't have to be Marvel: The Simulation. We can have Marvel: Street Fighter Clone, or Marvel: Puzzle Quest, or whatever.

Sure, but it's not what those of us dying for xcom 3 are looking for and it will be a disappointment. I guess we'll find out more this afternoon but my expectations have been lowered significantly.

[Grifman]

I do. I guess I've just come to accept the convention. Buttons and APs aren't "realistic" either. This doesn't have to be Marvel: The Simulation. We can have Marvel: Street Fighter Clone, or Marvel: Puzzle Quest, or whatever.

AP are indeed realistic in some sense. They symbolize the amount of time it takes to carry out an action. You could argue whether those time increments are accurate but there is an attempt to be "realistic" in some sense, at least at lot more than just drawing action cards at random.

[Sudy]

Sure, but it's not what those of us dying for xcom 3 are looking for and it will be a disappointment.

But we already knew that by now.

AP are indeed realistic in some sense. They symbolize the amount of time it takes to carry out an action. You could argue whether those time increments are accurate but there is an attempt to be "realistic" in some sense, at least at lot more than just drawing action cards at random.

Cards represent the fog of war. (Or something.) Everything's an abstraction on some level. But I get that you want something "more" realistic.

[Max Peck]

I've never played a "card battler" so I have no idea if this would be good or bad. I'm seeing plenty of reactions to the GameInformer leakage on either side of the fence, so it seems to come down to personal preference for the play style, and whether or not the implementation is good, obviously.

IGN will be streaming the event on their Twitch and Youtube channels.

[Zenn7]

I played the original Xcom a couple times (once all the way through), none of these newer ones. I could get excited about a Marvel game maybe (really like superheroes, but suck at these arcade style fighting games).

But I agree the cards mechanic is not my thing. It's not a realism thing for me, it's a control thing. If I want Cap to throw his shield, I want him to be able to do it, or if he can't be cause it's on cooldown or insufficient AP or something, it's something I control. Just didn't get the card this turn? That's random bad luck.

Don't get me wrong, I've played some card games too and they are fun being what they are, just not what I was looking for here.

[Max Peck]

Cards represent the fog of war. (Or something.) Everything's an abstraction on some level. But I get that you want something "more" realistic.

My gut reaction is that only being able to take an action that a randomly drawn card says you can is a fundamentally different (and, for me, inferior) flavor of gameplay than a system that lets you choose the action with some sort of die roll or skill check to determine the outcome. I'll probably buy it, but I suspect that I'll be wishing I was playing Marvel's Midnight XCOM Suns instead of Marvel's Midnight Gwent Suns.

We'll see if they win me over, though.

[TheMix]

I wonder if the cards are their way of giving you lots of skills/actions without having a skill bar that looks like WoW's.

I could see it being potentially interesting if there are ~30 different skills, for example. I definitely would not want that many buttons and having to choose between each one every turn. But if it's more like 3-5 skills and just lots of the same cards getting cycled through, I'll be a lot less interested.

Also, I chuckled when they said it was all new, unique gameplay (paraphrasing). It may be a new combination/way of putting things together, but everything I saw was derivative of something that came before.

I also did an "uh oh" when they mentioned that you can customize costumes and that there would be pets. That smells like a bit of $$ grab. Not a deal breaker since I won't buy the stuff (and as long as it's not pay-to-win).

[Max Peck]

That was disappointingly short. Aside from confirming the card-based tactical gameplay, there wasn't anything really substantial revealed. This all could have been included in their GamesCom time slot. I was hoping that they delayed this event by a week so that they could take a more in-depth look at the gameplay, but that obviously wasn't the case.

[coopasonic]

I'm definitely going to be playing it as a marvel fan and a Firaxis fan. I do think there is some similarity to xcom. The heart of the tactical combat in xcom is solving the puzzle that each encounter presents. How am I going to use the abilities and equipment that are available to me to eliminate these enemies before they can wipe my team. Preferably before they can get a shot off.

In XCOM your tactics and numbers give you an edge over generally more powerful opponents. In this game, for the most part it looks like you are fighting greater numbers of less powerful opponents so maybe having the option to do whatever you want with the skills your character has would trivialize the encounters so the hand of cards restricts your tools for the fight. In XCOM, I can apply the same basic set of tactics and abilities to most encounters and it's really only changed up by the map, available cover, high ground, flanking opportunities, but even with all that I am basically always doing the same thing, scout, surprise, snipe, flank and if anything is left standing maybe toss a grenade. Here, if I don't have my go to tool in my hand, I need to figure out how to apply what I did draw in order to succeed.

I'm interested in the relationship and team stuff, which appears in xcom 2 but not in any real narrative way and with relatively light tactical impact.

[Grifman]

That was disappointingly short. Aside from confirming the card-based tactical gameplay, there wasn't anything really substantial revealed. This all could have been included in their GamesCom time slot. I was hoping that they delayed this event by a week so that they could take a more in-depth look at the gameplay, but that obviously wasn't the case.

Yeah, I was expecting something a lot more in depth, it was rather disappointing and half the show was a repeat of the reveal interview with Solomon.

[Hamlet3145]

I'm trying to be open minded, but put me in the camp of not being enthused by the card mechanic. Will definitely be waiting for reviews/being on sale.

[naednek]

Just think of all the times when you lose a battle you can now say, I guess it wasn't in the cards...

[Smoove_B]

Well, they're clearly taking a chance on trying a new mechanic/style. I'll also try to keep an open mind about it. Might end up really working because of the theme and known characters - the cards and their powers. Likely an easier sell than using generic theme and random characters with archetypal themes.

I guess we'll see.

[Freyland]

Just needs Gambit and I can pre-order with ease.

Doesn't the card-mechanic pretty much guarantee it?

[Smoove_B]

I kinda set myself up for that one. Should have said as a character, not a mechanic.

[Max Peck]

There's going to be an actual gameplay stream next week.

Watch the Hunter and Wolverine take on Sabretooth!

Watch the Hunter and Wolverine take on Sabretooth during the first Marvel's Midnight Suns gameplay stream, September 7 at 11:30am PT!

To say that Wolverine and Sabretooth are sworn enemies doesn't even begin to describe the depth of their hatred for one another. The regenerating mutant pair have been fighting and occasionally killing each other in comic books since the mid '80s when, after sharing the cover of Power Pack #27, they clashed in Uncanny X-Men #212. They've scrapped in sewers and secret labs, gone head-to-head in Hell, and even tore into each other as zombies. At 11:30am PT / 7:30pm BST on September 7 (2:30am UTC+8 / 4:30am AET on September 8), the Hunter and Wolverine are teaming up against Sabretooth for a ferocious grudge match during the first ever gameplay stream of Marvel's Midnight Suns.

In one corner, we've got the Hunter and Wolverine fighting to save the world. Wolverine's razor-sharp claws, regenerating health, and ability to taunt enemies into focusing on him make him well-suited to fighting on the front line. Tilting the odds in Wolverine's favor on this occasion will be members of the Firaxis development team and the Hunter, Marvel's Midnight Suns' protagonist and the first customizable original hero in the Marvel Universe. The Hunter has a previous lifetime of training and experience to draw on and can fill a number of different combat roles by focusing on dealing damage, supporting allies, controlling enemies, mitigating incoming damage, or any combination thereof.

In the other corner is Wolverine's age-old nemesis Sabretooth, another mutant with a superpowered healing factor and the animalistic instincts and strength of a fearsome predator. Even in a two-on-one battle, Sabretooth should prove to be a fierce opponent. You'll have to tune in to see who stands victorious when Wolverine and the Hunter take on Sabretooth in an intense head-to-head fight.

If you've been anxiously waiting to get a good look at Marvel's Midnight Suns' tactical combat system, this epic battle is not to be missed! Watch it right here or over at IGN.com.

[Max Peck]

To me, the tactical combat seems to giving off a strong JRPG vibe.

[coopasonic]

I'm intrigued. Not sold by the tactical combat yet, but wanting to see more. As I said before, I will be buying this because Firaxis and Marvel, which is kind of funny to say as I still haven't bought the Avengers game. Square Enix and Marvel should be a pretty similar draw for me, but it just didn't catch my eye as much.

[Baroquen]

I'm intrigued. Not sold by the tactical combat yet, but wanting to see more. As I said before, I will be buying this because Firaxis and Marvel, which is kind of funny to say as I still haven't bought the Avengers game. Square Enix and Marvel should be a pretty similar draw for me, but it just didn't catch my eye as much.

That's interesting. I'll probably pick this up on the value (for me) of Firaxis and Marvel, too. I agree - Avengers should have turned out better given the Square Enix / Marvel names. I did buy that one, but have hardly played it enough. Hopefully Midnight Suns turns out better.

[Grifman]

I thought the game play video was pretty good. But the two biggest take aways for me were that you'd see and fight other Marvel villains (I thought the only enemies would be Hydra and Lilith's minions) and corrupted Marvel heroes, which is very interesting. Maybe that's how you'll recruit some of them (maybe the ones that haven't been shown yet?) Anyway, this looks like a Day One purchase for me.

[Smoove_B]

Just a long message on Twitter basically indicating it's been delayed to "Second Half" of 2022.

[hepcat]

Oh, this was a kickstarter?

[Smoove_B]

Clearly there's a memo template being circulated.

[Max Peck]

Marvel's Midnight Suns leak reveals Spider-Man, Scarlet Witch, and a release date

A late 2021 delay pushed Marvel's Midnight Suns, the turn-based tactical RPG being developed by XCOM studio Firaxis, into the second half of 2022. An official release date still hasn't been announced, but it may have slipped out thanks to leaked box art and preorder details.

The leaked images have been taken offline by a copyright claim issued by 2K Games (although they're still easy enough to find if you're interested), but as noted by Nils Ahrensmeier on Twitter, they indicated an October 6 release date, and that three editions will be available: The standard release, an Enhanced Edition with five premium skins (Captain America (Future Soldier), Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell), Magik (Phoenix 5), Nico Minoru (Sister Grimm), and Wolverine (X-Force), and a Legendary Edition, with 23 premium skins and the four-DLC season pass.

Nine of the 12 Marvel heroes who will appear in Midnight Suns are already known—Doctor Strange, Magik, Iron Man, Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Blade, Captain America, Nico Minoru, and Captain Marvel—and the box art leak revealed two more: Spider-Man and the Scarlet Witch. That leaves one character still unaccounted for (could it actually be Morbin' Time for real?), while the player will take on the role of a 13th hero known as the Hunter.

[Max Peck]

A new trailer dropped today, giving a release date of 7 Oct 2022.

[coopasonic]

*continues twiddling thumbs impatiently*

[Max Peck]

Here's some new gameplay to whet your appetite.

[Max Peck]

The Steam page has been updated to include prices and allow pre-orders.

[Freyland]

That gameplay video did not make me want to play this.

[Max Peck]

They do seem to be going out of their way to say that this isn't XCOM with superheroes, that's for sure. Which makes me a little sad, because X-COM with superheroes has been exactly what I've wanted ever since Guardians: Agents of Justice died along with Simtex.

How Marvel's Midnight Suns is 'the complete opposite' of XCOM

It's kind of preposterous to say that Marvel's Midnight Suns is "the complete opposite" of XCOM 2. They're both turn-based tactics games. And yet, I have a hard time completely disagreeing with that claim from creative director Jake Solomon. They kind of are opposites. At the very least, Midnight Suns is the version of XCOM you'd get if you rewrote all its rules after declaring that it's Opposite Day. (Something I can imagine Solomon doing.)

A couple weeks ago, I spoke to Solomon and played Midnight Suns for a feature appearing in the next issue of PC Gamer magazine (on sale late June 23 in the UK and July 12 in the US). This is an excerpt from that article that I've modified for the web.

Here are a few of the ways that Midnight Suns really is the Bizarro version of XCOM (excuse the DC reference):

• In XCOM, each unit acts independently with their own resources. In Midnight Suns, three heroes all share the same turn and resources.
• In XCOM, deciding who to send charging toward near-certain death to complete an objective is an essential part of the experience. In Midnight Suns, it isn't super important which hero lifts the concrete slab off a bystander, just that it gets done.
• In XCOM, you always know what each soldier can do on a turn (shoot at aliens, mostly), but there's a chance they'll miss. In Midnight Suns, your heroes never miss, but what they can do on a turn is always changing, because their abilities are cards dealt from a shuffled deck.

[coopasonic]

That gameplay video did not make me want to play this.

I'm mixed on it. I will definitely check it out but I am not a quarter as excited about this as I would be about XCOM2.6 (assuming War of the Chosen is XCOM2.5).

[Hamlet3145]

[*]In XCOM, you always know what each soldier can do on a turn (shoot at aliens, mostly), but there's a chance they'll miss. In Midnight Suns, your heroes never miss, but what they can do on a turn is always changing, because their abilities are cards dealt from a shuffled deck.[/list]

That . . . sounds awful.

[Max Peck]

RPS has a pretty good article up, combining some hands-on impressions (they played a 4-hour demo) with background and snippets of an interview. I mentioned previously that the combat reminded me of JRPGs, and there are a couple of points in the article that make me believe that is quite intentional. Thankfully it isn't going to be a dating sim, at least.

How Marvel's Midnight Suns lost the race with the MCU, but came out all the better for it

[Kasey Chang]

It's a little more like WH40K spacewolves, or Fight in Tight Places.

[Grifman]

My only complaint was the Venom boss fight. I got tired of all the adds, it just seemed to go on and on, way too long, IMO.

[Max Peck]

My only complaint was the Venom boss fight. I got tired of all the adds, it just seemed to go on and on, way too long, IMO.

That may be due to the player stringing it out.

From the RPS article:

Having waves of enemies does come as a surprise. Instead of all goons appearing onscreen at the start of battle, a handful of back-up bods keep flooding the compact battle arenas at the end of each turn until everyone’s felled at the same time. Compared to XCOM, battles are much more about effective crowd control than picking off troublesome loners, which perhaps sounds tedious on paper, but it feels pretty rad under the thumbs. The best comparison I can give is probably Into The Breach, just with superheroes instead of giant mech suits.

It helps that battles are much shorter than XCOM’s. There are no hour long wars of attrition here; nearly all of my Midnight Suns missions were done and dusted in around 20 minutes. Solomon has spoken before about how fast this game is compared to Firaxis’ previous work, and battles really do have a welcome zip. With each attack guaranteed to hit, you’re free to plot epic takedowns rather than cringe through dice rolls, especially as you can also use those cards to shove enemies into sparking electrical transistors for extra damage, or put them down altogether to topple a lamp post onto their skulls, or lob a stack of Daily Bugles into their kneecaps. Say goodbye to cowering behind cover in Midnight Suns. Here, it’s just another supercharged tool for your toolbox.

[Smoove_B]

The idea that there's a $100 "Legendary Edition" version of this game has me thinking maybe I should dial back all of my expectations. That feels...excessive. If I need to pay $40+ more to get Gambit in a special pair of pants so he looks like the comic book version, that's kinda tainto.

[coopasonic]

So no Deluxe Edition with the season pass but none of the skins? That's lame. I mean, they are likely saving me $20 as I rarely touch DLC anyway... except in their damn games!!! XCOM and XCOM2 have some of the best DLC significantly expanding the value of the base game. It looks like the DLC for this might just be a touch less impactful anyway.

Keep the pressure on Lilith with the Season Pass, an extra dose of vengeance that includes four DLC packs for Marvel’s Midnight Suns, each introducing a new fully playable hero, new missions, new enemies, and more. DLC contents and release timing will be revealed at a future date.

but I want it.... but I don't care about skins.. but I want the season pass. I guess I can actually play the game first.

[Smoove_B]

There's like 4 different versions, starting at $60 and going up to $100. It looks like the $70 and $80 versions are extra skins and the $99 is all that plus the "season pass" for DLC.

I thought this type of nonsense stopped years ago, but I guess when you have a Marvel license you need to monetize the shit out of every last thing you can.

[Grifman]

This is an excellent overview of the game by “Mr. XCom”, Christopher Odd, based upon 5 hours of game play. It really goes into a lot, and I mean a lot of detail about the game - combat, relationships, crafting, your base, hero skills, etc. It’s really got me looking forward to release in September: