COVID-19 treatment and vaccine update thread

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:15 pm

You know how #antivaxxers will spin this? "Vaccines failed 34% of the time"

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:15 pm

Wife returns to the office two days a week beginning next Tuesday, for the first time in a year and a half. Nobody is excited about it. They will all be tested weekly and are required to remain masked at all times. With schools reopening at around the same time, this will be our first serious exposure to Delta. We figure (hope) that they'll go all-remote again as soon as someone tests positive.

Victoria Raverna · Post by **Victoria Raverna** » Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:39 pm

If they didn't produce antibody against the virus, how they recovered?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:08 pm

Victoria Raverna wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:39 pm If they didn't produce antibody against the virus, how they recovered?

The human immune system is complicated, despite what the Facebook experts will tell you. It's possible to recover from a disease and not develop long term immunity. I wouldn't say it's common, but it happens. It's also possible to get vaccinated and not have a strong response. The only way to know is to do a titer...or give you another shot.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:54 am

More Atlantic goodness, this time from Katherine Wu:

What we Actually Know About Waning Immunity

tl;dr - If you thought the headlines were mostly over-selling the drama, you're a winner!

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:15 am

Kraken wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:15 pm Wife returns to the office two days a week beginning next Tuesday, for the first time in a year and a half. Nobody is excited about it. They will all be tested weekly and are required to remain masked at all times. With schools reopening at around the same time, this will be our first serious exposure to Delta. We figure (hope) that they'll go all-remote again as soon as someone tests positive.

I'm back in the office more days that not. Masking is required in common areas, but not if you're alone in an office or conference room. Since I spend most of my time in my office, it's not a big deal. There are also not that many people in the office these days, keeping exposure small. My biggest exposure at the moment comes from my train ride, but 99% of folks are masking on the trains and they're not nearly as crowded as they were in the before times.

At the same time, the twins started in-person school this week. We're in a (with respect to COVID) sane city and state, so full-time masking is required, but the social distancing is probably spotty given everyone's back in the classroom.

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:08 pm It's also possible to get vaccinated and not have a strong response.

A guy who retired from my office a couple of years ago had to go for two rounds of vaccinations. He has MS and something about it (maybe a medication?) caused the first round to not take. His doctor just had him do a full second round. He said it wasn't considered a booster - just a regular vaccination. Fortunately the second round apparently took.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:28 am

How does one know that it took? or didn't take, for that matter?

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:32 am

I don't know for sure, but I think they test for antibodies or something like that. I'm sure that the doctor took extra precautions with this guy because of his MS.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:49 am

Unagi wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:28 am How does one know that it took? or didn't take, for that matter?

Sorry, that's the titer I mentioned. It's like an audit of your immune response. They collect blood and extrapolate the strength of the immunity based on the number and type of antibodies they find.

The one way most people are kinda familiar with is if you've ever needed to get a TB test for employment. The expensive way is to do a titer. The cheap way is to inject a protein solution under your skin and look for a reaction (a raised lump), aka the Mantoux test.

In a perfect world we could give everyone a COVID-19 titer and see how the vaccines are working. In practice they might be focusing on higher risk people. I'm guessing running titers was foundation data for recommending additional shots.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:56 pm

OH MY FUCKING GOD, GET THE FUCKING VACCINE ALREADY, YOU FUCKING FUCKS

Strong arguments.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:09 pm

She's my spirit animal. I saw that earlier today and it actually made me feel better to read it.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:18 pm

Posted this in a different Covid thread, but going to post it here as well - A UK study shows that vaccinating reduces your chances of getting Long Covid if you get a breakthrough infection (as compared to unvaccinated people who get Covid)

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58410354

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:36 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:56 pm OH MY FUCKING GOD, GET THE FUCKING VACCINE ALREADY, YOU FUCKING FUCKS

Strong arguments.

I prefer the Arnie version.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:37 pm

What Michelle was told today: The vaccine is electromagnetic, and in a few years the Russians will 'activate' it causing it to detonate inside of every American dumb enough to take it.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:45 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:37 pm What Michelle was told today: The vaccine is electromagnetic, and in a few years the Russians will 'activate' it causing it to detonate inside of every American dumb enough to take it.

In that case, China must be worse because they have close to a billion people fully vaccinated.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:44 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:15 am
Kraken wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:15 pm Wife returns to the office two days a week beginning next Tuesday, for the first time in a year and a half. Nobody is excited about it. They will all be tested weekly and are required to remain masked at all times. With schools reopening at around the same time, this will be our first serious exposure to Delta. We figure (hope) that they'll go all-remote again as soon as someone tests positive.
I'm back in the office more days that not. Masking is required in common areas, but not if you're alone in an office or conference room. Since I spend most of my time in my office, it's not a big deal. There are also not that many people in the office these days, keeping exposure small. My biggest exposure at the moment comes from my train ride, but 99% of folks are masking on the trains and they're not nearly as crowded as they were in the before times.

Wife suggested that we go out to dinner in the city on Tuesday, which was a thing we used to do in the Before Times. That would entail one of us taking the T into the city...not a risk either of us wants to take unnecessarily. Pity; it would be "fun" (remember what that was?) I haven't been downtown since the lockdown and won't go until we get another good lull in the pandemic.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:49 pm

Every time I see 'the before times' I tend to mental picture Mel Gibson in the desert with kids with an old pilot uniform and a crashed airliner.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:07 pm

Kasey Chang wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:45 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:37 pm What Michelle was told today: The vaccine is electromagnetic, and in a few years the Russians will 'activate' it causing it to detonate inside of every American dumb enough to take it.
In that case, China must be worse because they have close to a billion people fully vaccinated.

Yes, but then the Chinese people can all stand around in a circle and jump up and down in unison to create an electromagentic shield to protect against the Russians. Also, they can generate all the electricity they need at the same time.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:24 pm

It continuously amazes me that people will refuse to believe something with volumes of evidence touted by thousands of specialists in the field, but will 100% believe something some rando on YouTube told them that makes no sense whatsover when you think about it for a minute or two.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:36 pm

YellowKing wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:24 pm It continuously amazes me that people will refuse to believe something with volumes of evidence touted by thousands of specialists in the field, but will 100% believe something some rando on YouTube told them that makes no sense whatsover when you think about it for a minute or two.

And then if they get seriously sick, it's immediately back to the experts for help. At least be internally consistent, folks.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:20 pm

Sister-in-law just tested positive. She was vaccinated quite a while ago, but not sure which one she got.

Wondering if maybe the efficacy was not as high as predicted, or perhaps the protection just isn’t lasting as long as they hoped. Maybe both.

I do plan to get a booster as soon as it’s available.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:13 pm

YellowKing wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:24 pm It continuously amazes me that people will refuse to believe something with volumes of evidence touted by thousands of specialists in the field, but will 100% believe something some rando on YouTube told them that makes no sense whatsover when you think about it for a minute or two.

It doesn't surprise me at all. People want to be happy. Americans in the past few decades, especially, have been conditioned to look for the happy. Most of us have never faced real adversity or a real threat. The last time the US itself was in actual danger was, what, the Spanish Flu? Even the World Wars barely touched the continental US. We have forgotten what a threat actually is.

A pandemic is scary. Scary makes not happy. A lie makes happy. If you think about the lie, it doesn't make happy anymore, and then the scary is back. So you accept the lie, and then you get to be happy again. And that's all we know how to do.

As someone who (like most of us here) has spent the last couple of years analyzing the scary, I absolutely get it. I'd love to believe the lie, just for a couple of weeks, long enough for my blood pressure to drop and my shoulders to unknot. So I get it.

It's still absurd, it's still idiotic, but I get it.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:51 pm

I'll have to wait until she gets home to fill in the details but the wife sent me a brief text letting me know that they had to call 911 because an angry MAGA-type stormed into the treatment area of the veterinary clinic where she works demanding access to Heartguard.

Guess what the primary ingredient of Heartguard is....yeah, Ivermectin.

My primary concern was that she is safe which she confirmed after the guy left before the police arrived.
As a precaution, they are now having to disinfect the entire clinic since it seems likely that this asshat posed a Covid risk.

People suck.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:57 pm

I'm sorry... that's beyond insane.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:41 pm

Wife's home, safe and sound, and apparently I've covered pretty much all the important bits.

Her telling of the story involves a whole lot more swearing (in imitation of the "client") and also includes the additional detail that no police ever showed up so one of the receptionists went to the police station to make sure a report gets filed.

Crazy Lady · Post by **Crazy Lady** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:57 pm

(Wife's home, safe and sound, and apparently I've covered pretty much all the important bits.

Her telling of the story involves a whole lot more swearing (in imitation of the "client") and also includes the additional detail that no police ever showed up so one of the receptionists went to the police station to make sure a report gets filed)

The part Brian left out was he was threatening us and even jumped over the counter and stormed into our treatment area, through the only door we keep unlocked. Also, he brought race into it. "Because he's black we won't sell him the Heartgard".

We have never seen his pet and we do not sell any kind of drug or preventative care without an exam and a negative heartworm test.

And to top it all off I wasn't even supposed to be there today.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:19 pm

Well, it's at least because he's not a black lab.

Seriously, I'm glad it went the way it did. It could have gone a lot worse.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:21 pm

I've been hearing some crazy stories, but that is up there. Has there been any communication among veterinarians (state, local, nationwide?) about this kind of potential behavior? The idea that someone might force their way in and demand medication is...not something I'd considered at all.

Wow. Every day it's something else.

Crazy Lady · Post by **Crazy Lady** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:28 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:21 pm I've been hearing some crazy stories, but that is up there. Has there been any communication among veterinarians (state, local, nationwide?) about this kind of potential behavior? The idea that someone might force their way in and demand medication is...not something I'd considered at all.

Wow. Every day it's something else.

As far as I know, there hasn't been any talk. But that may change now.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:48 pm

Definitely encourage it. I doubt he came up with this idea on his own. In my part of NJ there are quite a few large animal veterinarians and I'd expect they might have supplies stored on site. I actually didn't know it was in Heartgard, but that's common enough that people might be motivated to try exactly what happened to your office.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:58 pm

Damn, now my sister apparently has it. Also vaccinated (quite early on since she’s a teacher).

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:44 am

This thread has entirely too much personal news lately. I wish to believe that covid is happening Out There.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:03 am

Shit, just warned my sister who runs a California vet clinic. She thinks it’s malpractice to use Imervectin for human treatment even if they were examined.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:04 pm

Bah, just tell them you'll prescribe it, but only if the patient has been spayed/neutered.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:52 pm

…which they will gladly perform in-house, and no fee.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:48 pm

Twice this week I had to be an "Uber Eats" driver without the pay or tip, delivering food to my wife's dumbass friend who refuses to get vaccinated. Her kids met my with my kids a week ago, but even though IDPH declared her quarantine over as of today, a friend doesn't think my kids should be out tomorrow celebrating their birthdays (son is 8 tomorrow, daughter is 5 on Wednesday). They interacted with the infected one's kids 8 days ago.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:03 am

Carpet_pissr wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:58 pm Damn, now my sister apparently has it. Also vaccinated (quite early on since she’s a teacher).

Were they symptomatic or discovered just though testing?

Asking because most of the vaccinated cases I'm hearing about personally were asymptomatic and discovered because of random testing or testing after exposure.

I'm coming up on 9 months and will get a booster as soon as they provide them at work, which looks like after the immunocompromised boosters are done in a week or so.

Jaymon · Post by **Jaymon** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:23 pm

Bit of a back story. Like many people. I have a crazy ex. She is into spiritual healing and reiki and natural remedies and such. We had many arguments about vaccines and doctors in the past. My 17 daughter lives with her mostly, and as such, has not yet got the covid vaccine.

Daughter had 1 week of school, and then started feeling sick. They have masks in place, but of course don't wear them while eating. So she stayed home the second week with mild fever and sore throat, but lost her sense of smell on Saturday. Ugh. Shes going in for covid test today.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:27 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:03 am
Carpet_pissr wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:58 pm Damn, now my sister apparently has it. Also vaccinated (quite early on since she’s a teacher).

Were they symptomatic or discovered just though testing?

Asking because most of the vaccinated cases I'm hearing about personally were asymptomatic and discovered because of random testing or testing after exposure.

I'm coming up on 9 months and will get a booster as soon as they provide them at work, which looks like after the immunocompromised boosters are done in a week or so.

Both symptomatic and got tested as a result. Seems to be mild symptoms so far:

Ringing ears
No sense of taste or smell
Upset stomach
Seasonal Allergy like symptoms

I assume if they were not vaccinated things would be much worse for them right now.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:57 pm

Jaymon wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:23 pm Bit of a back story. Like many people. I have a crazy ex. She is into spiritual healing and reiki and natural remedies and such. We had many arguments about vaccines and doctors in the past. My 17 daughter lives with her mostly, and as such, has not yet got the covid vaccine.

Daughter had 1 week of school, and then started feeling sick. They have masks in place, but of course don't wear them while eating. So she stayed home the second week with mild fever and sore throat, but lost her sense of smell on Saturday. Ugh. Shes going in for covid test today.

Man, sorry. That sucks. Hope it's mild, whatever it is.