Thinking of dumping my car... Thoughts?

[Drazzil]

So. I've been having a time of things lately. I've been sober for the last year. Job searching for the last six months. Its been... difficult. Lots of applications, lots of interviews, lots of rejections, and lots of rejecting.

I get the phone ringing off the hook for warehouse and home caregiver jobs which I will not do. The job market in the Portland metro area is INSANE. Companies want one or two years recent experience for an office job that pays fifty cents over minimum wage.

Just for fun I did an interview with a local safeway, had the manager swear blind she was going to call me that day to work out the details and ghosted me. I had Securitas basically offer me a job, and have the hiring person send me home telling me she would e mail me that day with a list of posts I could choose from and ghost. I interviewed for a job at the Nike campus and got hired for a food safety position, only to be told later on the position that I accepted was ACTUALLY janitorial.

Its crazy.

[Jaymann]

Hi Draz. Glad to see you're getting with the whole civilization program.

[Drazzil]

Hi Draz. Glad to see you're getting with the whole civilization program.

For the good it's going to do me.

[Scuzz]

My daughter and her friend had no problem finding jobs when they moved to Portland last year, but yea, they aren't getting paid much above minimum wage for office jobs. One works for attorneys and one works for accountants.

[dbt1949]

Well, Have you thought of becoming a lumberjack?

[Alefroth]

Just like his dear papa?

[Jeff V]

Well, Have you thought of becoming a lumberjack?

Is he OK?

[Zenn7]

Hey Draz! Glad to hear you're staying on the right track! And welcome back!

Not necessarily a question for Drazzil, just a general curiosity thing:
Office jobs, $.50 over minimum wage? Does that have anything to do with Portland's high minimum wage? Don't they have $15 or close to it for minimum wage?

[Drazzil]

Hey Draz! Glad to hear you're staying on the right track! And welcome back!

Not necessarily a question for Drazzil, just a general curiosity thing:
Office jobs, $.50 over minimum wage? Does that have anything to do with Portland's high minimum wage? Don't they have $15 or close to it for minimum wage?

Yes but everything here is hellishly expensive. Its like the entire effing area decided everyone made 30.00 an hour and decided to mark everything up accordingly. Parking is expensive as hell. 200 a month in my section 8 apartment building. Restaurants are *REDICULIOUS* for even the food carts. Double the prices of Berdoo for everything. Even before COVID (How has spellcheck not learned COVID yet?) I had to kick my restaurant habit in a BIG hurry. Now I make my own pizza, stir fry, barbeque and anything else I may want/need to eat. Cept for Mexican food. I cant seem to perfect al pastor. I already know my own.

Portland OR DMV has decided to stick its hand in my pocket again. Need to renew my registration. And the DEQ test they seem to do every year to everyone's a scam too.

It sucks walking past the billions of crazed tent people to walk past restaurant row and watch the people with money having fun on the way to the supermarket every week. Have to watch the sidewalks to avoid slipping on human shit and landing on the needles.

Even with all the trouble this town has, it still cant hold a candle to the shittiness of my old one.

[Scuzz]

Hey Draz! Glad to hear you're staying on the right track! And welcome back!

Not necessarily a question for Drazzil, just a general curiosity thing:
Office jobs, $.50 over minimum wage? Does that have anything to do with Portland's high minimum wage? Don't they have $15 or close to it for minimum wage?

I think my daughters starting wage in Portland was right around $16, with no health insurance.

I don't know what the minimum wage there is. But California minimum now is $15 I think, and I believe Seattle is about there so Portland probably is as well. The cost of living there isn't cheap.

[hitbyambulance]

Yes but everything here is hellishly expensive. Its like the entire effing area decided everyone made 30.00 an hour and decided to mark everything up accordingly.

preeeettty sure you were warned about that (if i didn't, someone else must have)

[Zenn7]

Kinda crazy.

Hope that doesn't spread across the whole country.

(Edited previous response just in case it might inadvertantly cause a R&P discussion)

[Roman]

Just curious - what hourly wage are you looking for in order for you to live on?

Does taking the $15.50 hour allow you some independence from gov't security assistance and then build up your experience for the next gig?

[Jeff V]

I don't know what the minimum wage there is. But California minimum now is $15 I think, and I believe Seattle is about there so Portland probably is as well. The cost of living there isn't cheap.

I don't think there's anywhere in this country where the cost of living is cheap enough to live on that. Which is why as a class the working poor seem to be revolting...or at least leveled up to less objectionable work.

Last week, twice my wife dispatched me for fast food for her lunch at work. First was spring rolls from a Pho restaurant, and they were closed at dinner time rush. Second was Popeyes the next day, and they too were closed at dinner time rush.

Most of these jobs do nothing to prepare you for anything further. A lot of them used to be taken by immigrants, and an unfriendly immigration policy is partly responsible for them now being vacant. I remember some years ago the Alabama governor launched a crusade against mostly illegal migrant workers, and then begged them to come back when the crops died on the vine because guess what? Americans don't want to do that kind of work at the rate employers are willing to pay.

[Zarathud]

They do show you can hold down a job. Which is important if you’ve been out of the workforce long-term.

[Blackhawk]

I don't think there's anywhere in this country where the cost of living is cheap enough to live on that. Which is why as a class the working poor seem to be revolting...or at least leveled up to less objectionable work.

$15/hour? Assuming you got a full 40 hours (wishful thinking) that would be in excess of what I had coming in before Michelle and I got back together, and I was able raise kids on it with a little to spare for fun as long as I stuck tightly to my budget. So there are places you could live on that.

But of course minimum wage here is less than half of that ($7.25/hr), which you could live on only if you cut everything else down to the bone - minimal utility phone, email-quality internet connection, no streaming, cheap food, no hobbies, etc.

[Scuzz]

Every job my daughters had in retail limited their hours. They never got 40 hour weeks unless someone else was unable to work. That is one reason why even at $15 an hour things are hard.

[Zenn7]

I don't think there's anywhere in this country where the cost of living is cheap enough to live on that. Which is why as a class the working poor seem to be revolting...or at least leveled up to less objectionable work.

$15/hour? Assuming you got a full 40 hours (wishful thinking) that would be in excess of what I had coming in before Michelle and I got back together, and I was able raise kids on it with a little to spare for fun as long as I stuck tightly to my budget. So there are places you could live on that.

But of course minimum wage here is less than half of that ($7.25/hr), which you could live on only if you cut everything else down to the bone - minimal utility phone, email-quality internet connection, no streaming, cheap food, no hobbies, etc.

Think Jeff has lived in big cities or gotten too used to a more luxury lifestyle.

A single person starting out in life could live on that in lots of lower cost of living places I think. Alabama, Mississippi, other poor states like those. Small towns, etc. You aren't going out to eat at expensive restaurants more than once in a blue moon or for lunch every day, no $5 Starbucks coffee daily, not on the Verizon unlimited data plan with your $1000 latest Samsung/Iphone, not socking away a ton for retirement, not driving new vehicles, probably renting a 1 bedroom apartment (maybe a smallish house). Also need to be reasonably healthy (no major medical expenses). Probably a good idea to clip coupons and shop sales to improve your diet beyond ramen/bread/water. But you can do it in many places.

You just aren't likely to get $15/hour, 40 hours/week jobs in those places (not for entry level/unskilled labor type jobs).

[Kraken]

I don't think there's anywhere in this country where the cost of living is cheap enough to live on that. Which is why as a class the working poor seem to be revolting...or at least leveled up to less objectionable work.

$15/hour? Assuming you got a full 40 hours (wishful thinking) that would be in excess of what I had coming in before Michelle and I got back together, and I was able raise kids on it with a little to spare for fun as long as I stuck tightly to my budget. So there are places you could live on that.

But of course minimum wage here is less than half of that ($7.25/hr), which you could live on only if you cut everything else down to the bone - minimal utility phone, email-quality internet connection, no streaming, cheap food, no hobbies, etc.

Think Jeff has lived in big cities or gotten too used to a more luxury lifestyle.

A single person starting out in life could live on that in lots of lower cost of living places I think. Alabama, Mississippi, other poor states like those. Small towns, etc. You aren't going out to eat at expensive restaurants more than once in a blue moon or for lunch every day, no $5 Starbucks coffee daily, not on the Verizon unlimited data plan with your $1000 latest Samsung/Iphone, not socking away a ton for retirement, not driving new vehicles, probably renting a 1 bedroom apartment (maybe a smallish house). Also need to be reasonably healthy (no major medical expenses). Probably a good idea to clip coupons and shop sales to improve your diet beyond ramen/bread/water. But you can do it in many places.

You just aren't likely to get $15/hour, 40 hours/week jobs in those places (not for entry level/unskilled labor type jobs).

Yeah, me and Wife are secure and comfortable, but not rich for where we live. My family in Muskegon MI thinks we're one-percenters, but our standard of living isn't a whole lot higher than theirs. My niece owns a nice-enough house on a large and pleasant property that's worth 1/5 of my smaller nice-enough house on a postage-stamp lot. It's all location-relative. In the cities that drive the economy, the prevailing wage is necessarily much higher than the minimum wage. A loaf of bread is like 10 cents in Muskegon.

[Blackhawk]

Also need to be reasonably healthy (no major medical expenses).

Honestly, that isn't a huge factor. After the first bill, it's simply unpayable debt, or else it's a huge pot that you're paying pittance to in order to keep from wrecking your credit rating (I remember staving off collection agencies for years by paying $10/month on a $2,500 bill - had it been $5,000 or $25,000, the impact on my budget would have been exactly the same.)

[Zenn7]

Also need to be reasonably healthy (no major medical expenses).

Honestly, that isn't a huge factor. After the first bill, it's simply unpayable debt, or else it's a huge pot that you're paying pittance to in order to keep from wrecking your credit rating (I remember staving off collection agencies for years by paying $10/month on a $2,500 bill - had it been $5,000 or $25,000, the impact on my budget would have been exactly the same.)

I was more thinking prescriptions/chronic issues that require recurring smaller bills. For instance, diabetes - insulin is NOT cheap! Or breathing issues, some inhalers are NOT cheap! Thinking if you were in one of these cheaper places making that much money, you would be unlikely to qualify for much in the way of public assistance or whatever to pay for the drugs, but I don't know that for sure.

[dbt1949]

It still works using Blackhawk's way. You put everything on credit cards.

[LordMortis]

I don't think there's anywhere in this country where the cost of living is cheap enough to live on that. Which is why as a class the working poor seem to be revolting...or at least leveled up to less objectionable work.

$15/hour? Assuming you got a full 40 hours (wishful thinking) that would be in excess of what I had coming in before Michelle and I got back together, and I was able raise kids on it with a little to spare for fun as long as I stuck tightly to my budget. So there are places you could live on that.

But of course minimum wage here is less than half of that ($7.25/hr), which you could live on only if you cut everything else down to the bone - minimal utility phone, email-quality internet connection, no streaming, cheap food, no hobbies, etc.

Think Jeff has lived in big cities or gotten too used to a more luxury lifestyle.

A single person starting out in life could live on that in lots of lower cost of living places I think. Alabama, Mississippi, other poor states like those. Small towns, etc. You aren't going out to eat at expensive restaurants more than once in a blue moon or for lunch every day, no $5 Starbucks coffee daily, not on the Verizon unlimited data plan with your $1000 latest Samsung/Iphone, not socking away a ton for retirement, not driving new vehicles, probably renting a 1 bedroom apartment (maybe a smallish house). Also need to be reasonably healthy (no major medical expenses). Probably a good idea to clip coupons and shop sales to improve your diet beyond ramen/bread/water. But you can do it in many places.

You just aren't likely to get $15/hour, 40 hours/week jobs in those places (not for entry level/unskilled labor type jobs).

Yeah, me and Wife are secure and comfortable, but not rich for where we live. My family in Muskegon MI thinks we're one-percenters, but our standard of living isn't a whole lot higher than theirs. My niece owns a nice-enough house on a large and pleasant property that's worth 1/5 of my smaller nice-enough house on a postage-stamp lot. It's all location-relative. In the cities that drive the economy, the prevailing wage is necessarily much higher than the minimum wage. A loaf of bread is like 10 cents in Muskegon.

Heh, I'm trying to budget out my post work years and I don't know how anyone does it. $15/hour at 40. Nope. Maybe in early 1990s money with no medical insurance worries.

House is paid off, so this is monthly estimate, no disasters, No fixing, no replacements, no inflation.

$200 property taxes
$200 electric and natural gas
$200 media (cable or whatever post cable will be plus Internet)
$400 food and auto gas
$200 home and auto insurance
$100 water and phone

$1300 a month

No extras.

$1500 medical
??? Dental and vision

= $2800 minimum = $17.5 an hour if you paid no taxes.

That's not fancy big city living. That's scraping by being fortunate to have my own home and with no accounting for maintenance and allowing myself TV/media consumption.

[Daehawk]

Garbage truck drivers in Chattanooga make $18 - $21 an hour. Is it me or is that high? Bah probably me as my minimum wage was $3.25 or so an hour when I tried to work at age 17 hehe. Took me 2 weeks to make a little over $200 after taxes. Then I spent it on my car, cigarettes, and girls.

[Scuzz]

That seems really low to me, but in California that would attract some really crappy drivers.

[Kraken]

Garbage truck drivers in Chattanooga make $18 - $21 an hour. Is it me or is that high?

I believe people's compensation should be based, in part, on how important their job is and how unpleasant or dangerous it is. Trash removal is both very important and highly unpleasant, so they ought to be paid pretty well even if they don't need special skills or education. I was surprised to learn that EMTs are basically minimum-wage workers -- you'd think they'd be up there with doctors, or at least cops.

[LordMortis]

I was surprised to learn that EMTs are basically minimum-wage workers

Me too, especially when they actually need a level of education and physicality and preform a valuable service that I'd never want to do.

[Jeff V]

But of course minimum wage here is less than half of that ($7.25/hr), which you could live on only if you cut everything else down to the bone - minimal utility phone, email-quality internet connection, no streaming, cheap food, no hobbies, etc.

How do you afford health insurance, which isn't less than $1000/mo on family plans without being well-subsidized by an employer? And I'll bet employers paying that little aren't lavishing their workers with top-shelf benefits.

[Blackhawk]

If you make that little? The government. Welcome to Medicaid.

[LordMortis]

But of course minimum wage here is less than half of that ($7.25/hr), which you could live on only if you cut everything else down to the bone - minimal utility phone, email-quality internet connection, no streaming, cheap food, no hobbies, etc.

How do you afford health insurance, which isn't less than $1000/mo on family plans without being well-subsidized by an employer? And I'll bet employers paying that little aren't lavishing their workers with top-shelf benefits.

I can find it as cheap as $350 a month through the ACA for one person with an annual OOP max of $8500 on a tiny low coverage network. That is for the worst coverage possible for when you are 25 and healthy.

To get a good network of doctors, it's about $790 for one person with an OOP max of $7500 or around $1500 a month if you have pre-existing conditions that are going to chew through your OOP expenses, which is the whole reason I need the marketplace providers.

When my income basically drops to zero, the ACA subsidies or medicaid kick in but how is a mystery to me and from the sound of it, I need to avoid medicaid even if it's the ultra cheap route, so I'm sticking with the $1500 per month projection and hoping the ACA give me "free" money.

[Zenn7]

But of course minimum wage here is less than half of that ($7.25/hr), which you could live on only if you cut everything else down to the bone - minimal utility phone, email-quality internet connection, no streaming, cheap food, no hobbies, etc.

How do you afford health insurance, which isn't less than $1000/mo on family plans without being well-subsidized by an employer? And I'll bet employers paying that little aren't lavishing their workers with top-shelf benefits.

I can find it as cheap as $350 a month through the ACA for one person with an annual OOP max of $8500 on a tiny low coverage network. That is for the worst coverage possible for when you are 25 and healthy.

To get a good network of doctors, it's about $790 for one person with an OOP max of $7500 or around $1500 a month if you have pre-existing conditions that are going to chew through your OOP expenses, which is the whole reason I need the marketplace providers.

When my income basically drops to zero, the ACA subsidies or medicaid kick in but how is a mystery to me and from the sound of it, I need to avoid medicaid even if it's the ultra cheap route, so I'm sticking with the $1500 per month projection and hoping the ACA give me "free" money.

Had a response written up but decided I may have derailed (or help derail at least) this topic away from the original post. So...

Welcome back Draz! Glad you are staying on track. Hope you are able to find a job soon.

[Jeff V]

But of course minimum wage here is less than half of that ($7.25/hr), which you could live on only if you cut everything else down to the bone - minimal utility phone, email-quality internet connection, no streaming, cheap food, no hobbies, etc.

How do you afford health insurance, which isn't less than $1000/mo on family plans without being well-subsidized by an employer? And I'll bet employers paying that little aren't lavishing their workers with top-shelf benefits.

I can find it as cheap as $350 a month through the ACA for one person with an annual OOP max of $8500 on a tiny low coverage network. That is for the worst coverage possible for when you are 25 and healthy.

To get a good network of doctors, it's about $790 for one person with an OOP max of $7500 or around $1500 a month if you have pre-existing conditions that are going to chew through your OOP expenses, which is the whole reason I need the marketplace providers.

When my income basically drops to zerThio, the ACA subsidies or medicaid kick in but how is a mystery to me and from the sound of it, I need to avoid medicaid even if it's the ultra cheap route, so I'm sticking with the $1500 per month projection and hoping the ACA give me "free" money.

We were denied Medicare or subsidies. And it's a family plan we need, not an individual one. Wife had a good plan with her previous employer, $400/month, all meds paid. Her current employer is over $1000 per month. I got a bridge policy that costs us $500 per month, but on meds anyway it's useless. We're about to find out if it's any good for regular checkups and labs. This would be up for renewal at the end of October.

Its fortunate none of us have severe illness but wife and I are type-2 diabetic, so the costs are still significant just for regular labs and maintenance meds. For us to be able to afford getting by on my wife's salary would require me cashing in my 401(k) to pay off our debts...something I can't really do until December when I hit 59.5 on the odometer and can do so without penalty. If I don't find a job before then, this is going to result in my effective retirement...I'll keep trying to get WFH gigs, but being Mr. Mom will be my raison d'etre.

And I'm sharing this in Drazzil's thread just to let him know the struggle is real, and he's not alone.

[JCC]

I believe you can withdraw at 55 without penalty as long as you aren't earning income. I am not sure if your wife earning income affects that.

My current plans are to retire at 55.

[stessier]

I believe you can withdraw at 55 without penalty as long as you aren't earning income. I am not sure if your wife earning income affects that.

My current plans are to retire at 55.

From what I found, you have to quit, be laid off, or fired between 55 and 59.5 for that to work. It's called the IRS Rule of 55.

[LordMortis]

That is what I found as well. Look up Rule of 55 and it's a pretty narrow circumstance.

https://www.google.com/search?q=rule+of+55

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc558

IANAZ (I am not a Zarathud)

No Additional 10% Tax

...

Distributions made to you after you separated from service with your employer if the separation occurred in or after the year you reached age 55, or distributions made from a qualified governmental benefit plan, as defined in section 414(d) if you were a qualified public safety employee (federal state or local government) who separated from service in or after the year you reached age 50.

But there's a whole lot more.

[JCC]

My bad, I assumed you were still working and could quit.

[Drazzil]

Yes but everything here is hellishly expensive. Its like the entire effing area decided everyone made 30.00 an hour and decided to mark everything up accordingly.

preeeettty sure you were warned about that (if i didn't, someone else must have)

Yeah. Its difficult. Everything was MUCH cheaper when I vacationed even 5 years ago. Now I just don't eat out, or do ANYTHING fun really .

[Drazzil]

Just curious - what hourly wage are you looking for in order for you to live on?

Does taking the $15.50 hour allow you some independence from gov't security assistance and then build up your experience for the next gig?

I could take a job at or near minimum and be fine, I guess section 8 and food stamps would still cover me. I would hate to do that though. Would effectively mean the six years I took to get the business degree were effectively down the shitter.

I decided to open myself up to temp work. Who knows if that'll work out.

[Jeff V]

Would effectively mean the six years I took to get the business degree were effectively down the shitter.

I decided to open myself up to temp work. Who knows if that'll work out.

When you accept a job, you are setting your current worth. A friend of mine has an engineering degree and is somewhat of an expert in teflon. When the only company he worked for as a teflon engineer cut him loose, he's not been able to find a professional job since...going on 15 years now. The talking heads on TV exhorting people to snatch up those coveted (by no one) restaurant and retail jobs are oblivious to this, and that's part of the reason so much of the country is still out of work. It really can be career suicide to take such jobs.

Temp work is much more worthy of your time. It generally pays even better than a staff job, but typically lacks benefits. Significant assignments with major companies get mentioned on my resume. My last job of 10 years began as contract assignment for one international company that was being bought by another. My boss liked me, and had me made a regular employee weeks before the acquisition took place. In the past I had a 2 week assignment with the Chicago Tribune turn into a 2 year regular job; a 2 week assignment with General Growth turn into 9 months, and a 2 week assignment with Sara Lee turn into 2 years. Some companies want to try before they buy, others might grow fond of you and look for reasons to keep you around.

[Blackhawk]

I could take a job at or near minimum and be fine, I guess section 8 and food stamps would still cover me. I would hate to do that though. Would effectively mean the six years I took to get the business degree were effectively down the shitter.

That is absurd. Extremely so.

Not working at all means it is even further down the shitter. Not working means it's harder to convince a good job to hire you if one comes along. Not working means that you don't have opportunities to impress and network. Not working makes you look far worse than working a low-paying job.