Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column

[Unagi]

I said something, you replied with dripping sarcasm.
I asked if the point you were making was “x”, to which you replied that you knew how to write and would have written what I said had you wanted to.
I asked you to clarify then, and you came back here saying I was disingenuous.

Had you asked instead of patronizingly presuming, I may well have answered.\

I'm sorry, but most humbly I might protest: WTF - because the moment you are describing above, was me actually saying this:

So to be clear... AB, are you asserting that ....

This is literally me asking you, as best I can, if you are saying X --- and you couldn't even bother to correct me !?

What ever man. I am not your enemy and I am not trying to sell you short or anything like that. I am honestly trying to understand you, and trying to have you change my opinion, maybe even just understand you better, or tweak your own opinion - however unlikely. Your response (IMO) was weird, because I entirely expected you to merely put a finer edge on your original sarcastic (and I'm not down on sarcasm, because I'm guilty of using it 50% of the time as well) reply to my post.

I'll reiterate, I was pretty shocked that you replied the way you did to me, because I didn't feel I was 'patronizing presuming' beyond any level that each and all of us are guilty of, and is in no way deserving of your vitriolic response, etc (IMO).

I honestly ask that you should read your own worlds and contemplating if any of it applies here.:

Indeed, too often we judge others by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions. This is only exacerbated by social media, much of which is fuelled by those addicted to feeling offended all the time because it gives them a high. Being self-righteous and morally superior feels good. But as Nick Cave aptly observed, "moral certainty and self-righteousness shorn even of the capacity for redemption" embodies all of the worst aspects religion has to offer with none of its positive values. And because human nature means people tend to imitate one another in order to belong, social media discussions inevitably devolve into a constant exercise of swarm and shame, a pack of hyenas screaming for a scalp.

[Unagi]

Wow. That's one take, I suppose.

My impartial ruling sides with Unagi though. I thought he was genuinely trying to understand what you were saying. And you were a dick in return.

This is also not the first time that you've resorted to an "I know how to use words" response. But I have to wonder if you really understand how conversations work. You say "I meant exactly what I wrote". But the issue is that other people don't always understand what you mean. I don't see how getting snarky and unresponsive helps when people ask you to clarify. There is often meaning hiding behind words. I submit that your words are not as clear as you think they are. And if you are unwilling to put in any effort to clarify what your words mean, then, yes, you are definitely being disingenuous.

Just catching up - and thank you .


This is -- exactly -- what I am feeling and what I got from AB's reply.

I'm late to come back and catch up, and it's probably not helpful for me to say this - but it feels good to just read that someone else read me correctly, so... thanks.

[Kraken]

Arguments like this are why we lost Afghanistan.

We were a dick.

We still are.

The peanut gallery humbly moves that this thread return to Afghanistan. Yes, I want to go back in.

[Combustible Lemur]

Fwiw, from an educational perspective if you want to be clear that you are referring to behavior and not personality, you might use:

I feel that your behavior is dick like.
You are engaging in behavior that comes across to me as dickish.
While you may be a delightful person, you might be construed as behaving dickishly.
Your current choice of words runs the risk of seeming dickesque.

That is to say, you are inaccurately spraying urine and the occasional bloody stone into porcelain recepticals (Or Russian whores if you're Donald Trump).

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[Carpet_pissr]

Wow, there’s like 90% more dick talk in this thread than I would have expected considering the title.

‘What’s so funny about Biggus Dickus?’

[Drazzil]

[Anonymous Bosch]

I'll reiterate, I was pretty shocked that you replied the way you did to me, because I didn't feel I was 'patronizing presuming' beyond any level that each and all of us are guilty of, and is in no way deserving of your vitriolic response, etc (IMO).

I'll cop to posting snarkily, but as I told TheMix, a vitriolic response from me would be a WHOLE lot saltier and more colourful to say the least. I dunno, perhaps it's a cultural difference, but keep in mind I come from a culture in which the C-word gets thrown around liberally without anyone necessarily taking grievous offence. It would not be out of the ordinary to hear someone refer to a dear friend as, "you old cunt." And you’d definitely rather be a cunt than a wanker. So perhaps from an American perspective, you and TheMix are picking up sentiments from my British vernacular that just aren't there, or at least not intentionally on my part. Believe me, I'd have no problem informing you if they were.

And FWIW, this is what initially struck me as patronizingly presumptive:

May be important for folks like AB to keep in mind, that most people that actually want to throw mud on Biden (over, and over, and over) are not going to be like AB, someone that also is 100% behind them being able to come to Toledo Ohio and set up a new home.

…specifically because you inaccurately put words into my mouth instead of just asking me. Which is why I responded flippantly and sarcastically, and suggested that your observation that "this is about to get interesting/funny" implied that if it served as grist for the mill in the tedium of (R) vs. (D) tribalism, that was what seemed to matter to you. Which you then followed up with by insinuating what I'd posted was "FOX/etc spin," i.e. immediately relegating my opinion to an (R) vs. (D) box. You're free to view things from a purely binary (R) vs. (D) political perspective, but I'm also free to express a political opinion without joining a team. Not everything is ideologically pure.

I honestly ask that you should read your own worlds and contemplating if any of it applies here.:

Indeed, too often we judge others by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions. This is only exacerbated by social media, much of which is fuelled by those addicted to feeling offended all the time because it gives them a high. Being self-righteous and morally superior feels good. But as Nick Cave aptly observed, "moral certainty and self-righteousness shorn even of the capacity for redemption" embodies all of the worst aspects religion has to offer with none of its positive values. And because human nature means people tend to imitate one another in order to belong, social media discussions inevitably devolve into a constant exercise of swarm and shame, a pack of hyenas screaming for a scalp.

Firstly, I am sincerely not angry, offended, or riled-up in the slightest. I would not be posting here if I were, because I know better than to engage fellow forum members with said salty, colourful parlance. I neither insulted nor personally attacked anyone here, and all I originally tried to do was decline from participating in what I thought would be a hackneyed routine of having someone misrepresent what I think or feel, and then destroy that misrepresentation. But if I was mistaken in my interpretation and "judged you by your worst examples, while judging myself by my best intentions," then I freely acknowledge and apologise for that, with no moral superiority whatsoever. Because I'm every bit as fallible and human as anyone else posting here (well, except for the Isgrimbot).

[$iljanus]

So like an encouraging parent I’ll say I’m not angry at anyone but I think we should start moving back to the topic at hand.

Thanks! Your friendly neighborhood moderator

(Large font is not my yelling voice but more a firm grab your attention voice. Again, encouraging parent…)

[Freyland]

/removes diaper, smears feces on walls

[$iljanus]

/removes diaper, smears feces on walls

Well, that's one way to look at the US withdrawal from Afghanistan

[Carpet_pissr]

/removes diaper, smears feces on walls

Well, that's one way to look at the US withdrawal from Afghanistan

More like: remove full diaper, douse with gasoline, light on fire, and swing diaper around your head until walls are covered with flaming feces.

[Jaymann]

/removes diaper, smears feces on walls

Well, that's one way to look at the US withdrawal from Afghanistan

Or it was a dick move.

[Blackhawk]

Let's quit dicking around and get back on topic before Dad has to use his yelling voice.

[dbt1949]

I still find it funny that the Taliban is upset we disable/destroyed all our equipment when we left.

[$iljanus]

Let's quit dicking around and get back on topic before Dad has to use his yelling voice.

Don’t make me raise my font to huge!

[Zaxxon]

Let's quit dicking around and get back on topic before Dad has to use his yelling voice.

Don’t make me raise my font to huge!

I'll try...

After 9/11, the US Government got almost everything wrong. There may be a better thread for it, but this is a pretty good one.

That 17-minute delay between the two plane crashes—the brief period during which commuters looked up at the smoke rising from the North Tower and still went about their day—epitomized a New York and an America utterly unrecognizable today. Contrast it with this image: a video of a motorcycle backfiring in Times Square in the summer of 2019. Crowds flee; thousands run for their lives at the mere sound of a long bang. After the choices we made after 9/11 corrupted our national psyche and our politics, we are a fearful and divided country. The fear exacerbates the division. Gun sales have soared.

Ironically, we find ourselves in another fight against a shadowy, shape-shifting foe. The coronavirus has killed the equivalent of the 9/11 death toll every three days for the past 18 months. The total death toll surpasses the entire population of Wyoming. At least one part of the U.S. government’s response has been exemplary: Innovative and effective disease-defeating vaccines have been developed, approved, and administered to the majority of American adults for free at a truly impressive speed. Yet rather than pulling us together, the COVID-19 crisis has pushed Americans even further apart. Historians someday will study this moment and wonder how our society was so fragmented as to fumble a crisis that, in technical terms, we were well equipped to handle.

The answer, unfortunately, will be simple: We are confronting the current crisis with little of the hope, goodwill, and unity that 9/11 initially created, and that reality is inseparable from the fear and suspicion that came to dominate America’s reaction to the 2001 attacks—and yielded a long succession of tragic consequences, cynical choices, and poisonous politics. Looking back after two decades, I can’t escape the conclusion that the enemy we ended up fighting after 9/11 was ourselves.

[Blackhawk]

Only after 9/11?

[Zaxxon]

Only after 9/11?

I thought it was a pretty solid link to Afghanistan. YMMV.

[Blackhawk]

Only after 9/11?

I thought it was a pretty solid link to Afghanistan. YMMV.

That was political dissatisfaction snark, not actual commentary. I read that earlier, and yeah - Afghanistan is very much still a 9/11 aftershock.

[Zaxxon]

Only after 9/11?

I thought it was a pretty solid link to Afghanistan. YMMV.

That was political dissatisfaction snark, not actual commentary. I read that earlier, and yeah - Afghanistan is very much still a 9/11 aftershock.

[Drazzil]

I'm over 9/11. Far FAR over 9/11, and Afganistan, and Iraq and Al-Queda and all those attention whores in the middle east. They own a poison our nation and world should be over or at least trying to get over. Let the region handle its own bloodletting, and let US work on containing it within their borders. If we suffer another terrorist attack, instead of mucking about lets just be extremely disproportionate in our response. You know, the kind of shit that ends up on CNN with people wailing in a foreign language around a destroyed city and countless bodies.

But lets do it without landing. Never, ever touch the gods damned ground in any of these areas ever again. We cannot play by their rules. We must not nationbuild. We lack the commitment or the attention span.

The US was good at this sort of thing in the 50's-90's. A nation or dictator pissed us off? Attacked us? We blow up a city or a building with a bomb, the president goes on air and expresses our displeasure. Problem solved. Set an exchange rate. One of ours? 1000 of theirs. Lets make the consequences of terrorism towards us SO horrible that any nation that does us serves as a bloody public reminder of the cost of doing so. FROM THE AIR.

Somewhere, our military industrial complex got involved and decided to influence us to bring "democracy" to a nation of illiterate peasants. Now democracy is threatened in the United States, we didn't infect them with our values, they infected us with theirs.

We have far more pressing concerns then Afghanistan. Lets forget them and move along with trying to fix *our* problems.

[Drazzil]

Or instead of handling doing the bombing and retributions ourselves, if another terrorist attack comes from Afghanistan, blow up a Russian pipeline, or a Chinese mine. Make our anger very apparent and the Russian and the Chinese will handle our warcriming for us. They would have zero compunctions about playing by the rules in the region and speaking a language the populace understands.

[Carpet_pissr]

Dude.

[malchior]

Why not lob a nuke or two? Amirite? Let's show them who's boss by turning their villages to glass. Our problem is clearly that we've been too passive.

[Skinypupy]

Your continual fantasies and suggestions of mass violence and murder are getting awfully tiresome.

Get some help dude.

[Victoria Raverna]

Or instead of handling doing the bombing and retributions ourselves, if another terrorist attack comes from Afghanistan, blow up a Russian pipeline, or a Chinese mine. Make our anger very apparent and the Russian and the Chinese will handle our warcriming for us. They would have zero compunctions about playing by the rules in the region and speaking a language the populace understands.

You sure about that?

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-paci ... 021-07-14/

A blast on a bus killed 13 people in north Pakistan on Wednesday, including nine Chinese nationals in what Beijing said was a bomb attack but Islamabad called a vehicle failure.

Two Pakistani soldiers were also among the dead after the explosion sent the bus over a ravine, local government and police sources told Reuters.

Chinese engineers and Pakistani construction workers have for several years been working on hydroelectric projects as part of Beijing's Belt and Road Initiative in the western province of Khyber-Paktunkhwa, where the blast occurred.

China's embassy in Pakistan confirmed that nine of its nationals died. Terming the explosion a bomb attack but not giving more details, the Chinese foreign ministry offered condolences and urged both a thorough investigation and protection of its personnel and projects.

Pakistan's foreign ministry said a mechanical failure caused a gas leak which led to the explosion.

However, the province's top police official, Inspector General Moazzam Jah Ansari, earlier told Reuters foul play was suspected. "Looks like sabotage," he said.

A senior administrative officer of the Hazara region, who asked not to be named, said the bus was carrying more than 30 Chinese engineers to the Dasu dam in Upper Kohistan.

https://apnews.com/article/business-pak ... ee70fa59c5

QUETTA, Pakistan (AP) — A suicide bomber detonated his explosives Friday near a vehicle carrying Chinese workers in restive southwestern Pakistan, killing two Pakistani children playing by the roadside, the interior ministry and police said.

A Chinese and two other Pakistanis were wounded in the attack in Baluchistan province. Hours after the bombing, the separatist Baluch Liberation Army claimed responsibility for the bombing in the port town of Gwadar.

The police said the Chinese workers were traveling in three vehicles and were being escorted by security forces. The attacker detonated his device when officers tried to intercept him.

The area is a key district in southwest Pakistan where the Chinese are working on projects related to the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. The projects, including road construction and power plants to agriculture development, has cost billions of dollars.

China has in recent years played a key role in developing the deep-water port of Gwadar on the Arabian Sea. But, there have been some attacks on Pakistanis and Chinese working for the economic corridor projects.

Last month, a bus carrying Pakistani and Chinese workers fell into a ravine in northwestern Pakistan after a suicide bomber targeted the vehicle. Nine Chinese and four Pakistanis were killed in that attack in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province which borders Afghanistan.

[Drazzil]

Or instead of handling doing the bombing and retributions ourselves, if another terrorist attack comes from Afghanistan, blow up a Russian pipeline, or a Chinese mine. Make our anger very apparent and the Russian and the Chinese will handle our warcriming for us. They would have zero compunctions about playing by the rules in the region and speaking a language the populace understands.

You sure about that?

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-paci ... 021-07-14/

A blast on a bus killed 13 people in north Pakistan on Wednesday, including nine Chinese nationals in what Beijing said was a bomb attack but Islamabad called a vehicle failure.

Two Pakistani soldiers were also among the dead after the explosion sent the bus over a ravine, local government and police sources told Reuters.

Chinese engineers and Pakistani construction workers have for several years been working on hydroelectric projects as part of Beijing's Belt and Road Initiative in the western province of Khyber-Paktunkhwa, where the blast occurred.

China's embassy in Pakistan confirmed that nine of its nationals died. Terming the explosion a bomb attack but not giving more details, the Chinese foreign ministry offered condolences and urged both a thorough investigation and protection of its personnel and projects.

Pakistan's foreign ministry said a mechanical failure caused a gas leak which led to the explosion.

However, the province's top police official, Inspector General Moazzam Jah Ansari, earlier told Reuters foul play was suspected. "Looks like sabotage," he said.

A senior administrative officer of the Hazara region, who asked not to be named, said the bus was carrying more than 30 Chinese engineers to the Dasu dam in Upper Kohistan.

https://apnews.com/article/business-pak ... ee70fa59c5

QUETTA, Pakistan (AP) — A suicide bomber detonated his explosives Friday near a vehicle carrying Chinese workers in restive southwestern Pakistan, killing two Pakistani children playing by the roadside, the interior ministry and police said.

A Chinese and two other Pakistanis were wounded in the attack in Baluchistan province. Hours after the bombing, the separatist Baluch Liberation Army claimed responsibility for the bombing in the port town of Gwadar.

The police said the Chinese workers were traveling in three vehicles and were being escorted by security forces. The attacker detonated his device when officers tried to intercept him.

The area is a key district in southwest Pakistan where the Chinese are working on projects related to the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. The projects, including road construction and power plants to agriculture development, has cost billions of dollars.

China has in recent years played a key role in developing the deep-water port of Gwadar on the Arabian Sea. But, there have been some attacks on Pakistanis and Chinese working for the economic corridor projects.

Last month, a bus carrying Pakistani and Chinese workers fell into a ravine in northwestern Pakistan after a suicide bomber targeted the vehicle. Nine Chinese and four Pakistanis were killed in that attack in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province which borders Afghanistan.

Jeez. Hmm.

[Alefroth]

Your continual fantasies and suggestions of mass violence and murder are getting awfully tiresome.

That's putting it mildly.

[dbt1949]

What group is opposing the Chinese?

[Victoria Raverna]

What group is opposing the Chinese?

According to Pakistan, the Pakistan version of Taliban, Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan.

But Pakistan also accused India.

[Isgrimnur]

But Pakistan also accused India.

That's hardly probative and not at all surprising. Neither side is known to be very diligent with the truth regarding the other.

PC Gamer

In a bizarre development, some Indian news broadcasts claimed that the Pakistani airforce attacked the Panjshir valley, an Afghanistan mountain province home to about 170,000 people, which is currently the last major holdout of anti-Taliban forces.

The only problem? The footage used to report the supposedly pro-Taliban airforce attack came from the popular military simulation game Arma 3.

[Drazzil]

Your continual fantasies and suggestions of mass violence and murder are getting awfully tiresome.

That's putting it mildly.

Or you know, we *could* do what we should have done from the beginning and make it a law enforcement matter. Hardly think we can do this now though, and not sure how much a "stan" would cooperate.

[Carpet_pissr]

But Pakistan also accused India.

That's hardly probative and not at all surprising. Neither side is known to be very diligent with the truth regarding the other.

PC Gamer

In a bizarre development, some Indian news broadcasts claimed that the Pakistani airforce attacked the Panjshir valley, an Afghanistan mountain province home to about 170,000 people, which is currently the last major holdout of anti-Taliban forces.

The only problem? The footage used to report the supposedly pro-Taliban airforce attack came from the popular military simulation game Arma 3.

Wow, huge marketing opportunity for the makers of ARMA III (if they are still marketing it, which I doubt).
"Our engine is so realistic, it was used in a real world fake news incident!"

[Blackhawk]

Or instead of handling doing the bombing and retributions ourselves, if another terrorist attack comes from Afghanistan, blow up a Russian pipeline, or a Chinese mine. Make our anger very apparent and the Russian and the Chinese will handle our warcriming for us. They would have zero compunctions about playing by the rules in the region and speaking a language the populace understands.

What the hell? You are suggesting either 1) carpet bombing and becoming the terrorists, likely resulting in international sanctions that would cripple the nation, and would make it really, really easy to for the terrorists to recruit new volunteers, or 2) literally starting world war 3, likely causing billions of deaths, and positioning ourselves as the bad guys from day 1 so that we'd be going it alone, without our allies.

Your over-the-top hatred and desire to inflict suffering is a sign of some real, dangerous mental illness. Get help. If I knew you in person, I'd be notifying the authorities about you right now. You're that far gone. Get help before you have a bad day and end up getting yourself and other people killed.

[$iljanus]

Or instead of handling doing the bombing and retributions ourselves, if another terrorist attack comes from Afghanistan, blow up a Russian pipeline, or a Chinese mine. Make our anger very apparent and the Russian and the Chinese will handle our warcriming for us. They would have zero compunctions about playing by the rules in the region and speaking a language the populace understands.

Did you forget a word or two in your opening sentence, such as “…or they (the terrorists) blow up…” or are you suggesting that we bomb Russian or Chinese assets to start a conflict which reads like a really bad Tom Clancy knockoff?

I don't think Russia is very interested in either carpet bombing or Misadventures in Afghanistan part 2. Nor do I think China is dumb enough to start reprisal bombings. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

[Isgrimnur]

CNN

The first international passenger flight to take off from Afghanistan since the chaotic US military airlift last month landed in Qatar on Thursday, carrying more than 100 foreign nationals, including Americans, according to a source with knowledge of the matter.

Passengers on board the chartered Qatar Airways flight that departed from Kabul airport -- including Canadian, Ukrainian, German, British and US citizens -- were among some 200 foreigners that the Taliban have cleared to leave the country, the source said.

[El Guapo]

Or instead of handling doing the bombing and retributions ourselves, if another terrorist attack comes from Afghanistan, blow up a Russian pipeline, or a Chinese mine. Make our anger very apparent and the Russian and the Chinese will handle our warcriming for us. They would have zero compunctions about playing by the rules in the region and speaking a language the populace understands.

Did you forget a word or two in your opening sentence, such as “…or they (the terrorists) blow up…” or are you suggesting that we bomb Russian or Chinese assets to start a conflict which reads like a really bad Tom Clancy knockoff?

I don't think Russia is very interested in either carpet bombing or Misadventures in Afghanistan part 2. Nor do I think China is dumb enough to start reprisal bombings. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Yeah, and there's no way that Russia could fail to bring an Islamic insurgency in Afghanistan to heel, right?

[$iljanus]

Or instead of handling doing the bombing and retributions ourselves, if another terrorist attack comes from Afghanistan, blow up a Russian pipeline, or a Chinese mine. Make our anger very apparent and the Russian and the Chinese will handle our warcriming for us. They would have zero compunctions about playing by the rules in the region and speaking a language the populace understands.

Did you forget a word or two in your opening sentence, such as “…or they (the terrorists) blow up…” or are you suggesting that we bomb Russian or Chinese assets to start a conflict which reads like a really bad Tom Clancy knockoff?

I don't think Russia is very interested in either carpet bombing or Misadventures in Afghanistan part 2. Nor do I think China is dumb enough to start reprisal bombings. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Yeah, and there's no way that Russia could fail to bring an Islamic insurgency in Afghanistan to heel, right?

But I can see a movie where Ivan Drago's son who was working for a private security company gets blown up by Taliban terrorists and when he goes to Afghanistan to exact vengeance he runs into Rambo who is trying to get the family of the freedom fighter he worked with out of the country. Much mayhem ensues as they team up.

This is of course a movie, not foreign policy...

[Drazzil]

Or instead of handling doing the bombing and retributions ourselves, if another terrorist attack comes from Afghanistan, blow up a Russian pipeline, or a Chinese mine. Make our anger very apparent and the Russian and the Chinese will handle our warcriming for us. They would have zero compunctions about playing by the rules in the region and speaking a language the populace understands.

Did you forget a word or two in your opening sentence, such as “…or they (the terrorists) blow up…” or are you suggesting that we bomb Russian or Chinese assets to start a conflict which reads like a really bad Tom Clancy knockoff?

I don't think Russia is very interested in either carpet bombing or Misadventures in Afghanistan part 2. Nor do I think China is dumb enough to start reprisal bombings. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Yeah. Dumb idea maybe. Ignore that last one.

[Drazzil]

Or instead of handling doing the bombing and retributions ourselves, if another terrorist attack comes from Afghanistan, blow up a Russian pipeline, or a Chinese mine. Make our anger very apparent and the Russian and the Chinese will handle our warcriming for us. They would have zero compunctions about playing by the rules in the region and speaking a language the populace understands.

Did you forget a word or two in your opening sentence, such as “…or they (the terrorists) blow up…” or are you suggesting that we bomb Russian or Chinese assets to start a conflict which reads like a really bad Tom Clancy knockoff?

I don't think Russia is very interested in either carpet bombing or Misadventures in Afghanistan part 2. Nor do I think China is dumb enough to start reprisal bombings. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Yeah, and there's no way that Russia could fail to bring an Islamic insurgency in Afghanistan to heel, right?

Yeah. I guess if warcriming was going to bring Afganistan in line, the Russians would have done it. Ignore that last one. I was having a terrible day.