The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:42 pm

John Boozman is the incumbent, held the position since 2011. Jake Bequette, former NE Patriot, probably has just as good a chance.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:25 pm

Given that as of Mid-August US is only 51% fully vaccinated against COVID, and current COVID death count for US is at 659K (thanks Google!) we may yet hit 1 million dead by year-end.

I don't really wish ill upon the COVID deniers or the vaccine "hesitant"... I just wish they stop lying about being "hesitant". They are just NOT going to vaccinate no matter what FDA tells them. Before it as "it's not fully approved". Now it's "approval was rushed", and they label themselves so I can avoid them at all costs.

US has enjoyed the LEAD in both new COVID cases and COVID deaths for weeks, probably MONTHS. We're beating out Russian, Iran, Turkey, India, and leaps and bounds over China. Thanks to the "vaccine-hesitant".

Biden *should*, but probably won't and can't, do what Samoa did to quell the 2019 Measles outbreak. Not only Samoa declared a full curfew and closed EVERYTHING (esp. schools) , it also made vaccine mandatory for every resident (and organized EVERY civil servant available into vaccine teams that went door to door), and even arrested the head antivaxxer on the island (who was later released on bail and charges dropped) when he was posting **** on Facebook. Only took them 3 months to declare the outbreak over.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:20 pm

The way I look at it, ~30000 people died in August from COVID and for the vast majority of them it's nearly all their own fault. Month after month we'll be seeing this and they'll still be at this dumb stiggint game? I can't be sorry about this anymore.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:31 pm

Meanwhile, most Federal employee unions support the federal vaccine mandate. A few were what WaPo described as "lukewarm" and one is outright hostile to it. Spoiler below but if you didn't guess at the least the profession of the employees covered then you probably haven't been paying attention.

Spoiler:

The reaction of federal employee organizations to President Biden’s new vaccine mandate demonstrates it is not a simple yea or nay proposition.

A key element in his far-reaching, aggressive assault against covid-19 is a requirement for “all executive branch federal employees to be vaccinated,” he said Thursday, repeating “all” for emphasis. “And I’ve signed another executive order that will require federal contractors to do the same.”

Biden has the authority to order jabs for the 2.1 million civilian feds, noting, despite his repetition, “exceptions only as required by law.” But should he, and how should he, are issues raised by employee groups, whose reactions range from welcoming to flat-out opposing the mandate.

The reaction of federal worker groups, so far, mirrors that of American society. Those representing higher-wage earners — who tend to be more vaccine positive — have come out strongly in favor of the mandate, while organizations of lower-income workers have been less likely to embrace it outright.

While the largest federal union, the American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE), has “strongly encouraged” vaccinations for its members, it doesn’t want Biden’s executive order mandate to override collective bargaining prerogatives.

That order and another one on federal contractors override the previous White House position that employees and contractors must “attest to being fully vaccinated.” If they didn’t, they would face weekly or twice weekly coronavirus testing and restrictions on work related travel, in addition to masking and physical distancing requirements.

Union leaders generally don’t oppose the mandate, but “changes like this should be negotiated with our bargaining units where appropriate,” said AFGE President Everett Kelley. “Put simply, workers deserve a voice in their working conditions.”

The conditions include the consequences of compliance and noncompliance. Among the union’s questions: What disciplinary measures, from reprimand to firing, will employees who refuse vaccination face? Will those who get shots be required to stop teleworking and instead report to the office? What vaccination proof, if any, is required?

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:50 pm

FWIW, we lost 3000+ people on 9/11.

We lost 2418 people to COVID on 9/10/2021 ALONE. 659K people since the pandemic started.

We'll be hitting that 3000+ people DAILY mark very soon, unless something drastic is done. And it can't come soon enough.

For people who still want to choose, it's very simple... get vaxxed... or contribute to the epidemic as a super/spreader.

It pretty much comes down to "you can't tell me what to do!" Karen attitude. It's a NATIONAL EMERGENCY, for ****'s sake. Such entitled attitude.

When both Howard Stern and Arnold Schwartzneggar agreed on "F*** the antivaxxers", it's so blatantly obvious people who oppose it are just being selfish.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:04 pm

Kasey Chang wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:50 pm We'll be hitting that 3000+ people DAILY mark very soon, unless something drastic is done. And it can't come soon enough.

I just want to clarify this often confused element. The soon-to-be ~3000 daily deaths are a result of what was happening around 8/11. This time next month, whatever horrific death level we're at will be a result of what's happening today - and by all accounts its going to be awful.

Making decisions about masking (which, quite frankly is the single fastest/easiest/cheapest) measure we can universally enact starts working immediately. Vaccinations (while important) won't start providing a benefit for another 5+ weeks, at a minimum.

The issue we (public health) have been having since March of 2020 is trying to remind everyone about the significant lag time between exposure, illness, hospitalization and death (or recovery).

When you touch a hot stove, it's pretty easy to understand the immediate benefits of recommending you remove your hand. For communicable disease control, the benefits aren't necessarily going to be immediate. Trying to get people to understand the result of the current path is already set but we can start changing the path after 10/12 (or close to it) if we decide it's important enough. As I've been saying since April of 2020 or so, we're always ~4-6 weeks away from driving circulating virus levels down dramatically - we've had the tools and ability to do so from the get go. What we lack is the political will and/or the patience and belief in the tools we have.

Beyond frustrating.

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:00 pm

Went to Costco today, and masks are mandatory again. For the last few months, they were not required for vaccinated customers.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:09 pm

Healthcare "professionals' in NY State:

LOWVILLE, New York (WWNY) - Lewis County General Hospital will stop delivering babies after September 24 because too many maternity unit workers have resigned over COVID vaccination mandates.

That’s according to Lewis County Health System Chief Executive Officer Gerald Cayer, who held a news conference Friday in Lowville.

He said 6 employees in the maternity unit resigned rather than get a COVID shot and another 7 are undecided.

According to Cayer, the hospital will be unable to safely staff the unit and will pause delivering babies after September 24.

He said he hopes this is a temporary situation and will work with the state Department of Health to make sure the unit won’t permanently close.

These are people that work with newborns and they can't be bothered to get vaccinated. And I'm supposed to convince Johnny Lunchpail he should? JFC.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:47 am

My sister is pregnant and having to deal with an infant in quarantine is one of her biggest fears right now.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:49 am

WHY are the medical professionals fighting vaccination? Like nurses and NA's?

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:18 am

Politicalized > edumacated

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:02 am

Anniversary of 9/11 brought out the vocal people over the weekend and I was definitely emotionally triggered. Went for my infusion and had to sit next to a guy ranting about how 9/11 brought America together to and then Obama ruined everything. Then I went to grocery shopping and was caught in the insanely long check out in a largely unmasked (70/30 maybe) environment and had to listen to the griping about how people refuse to work in one breath and how no one is going to tell me what to do in another. And their holding these conversation with a bit volume purposely. It's a demonstration of power. I want so little to do the society I live in anymore.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:20 am

Huh - my whole company is held to the federal contractor vaccine requirements even though that business is overall pretty small. I'm all for it, but I'm curious if we are going to lose anyone from my facility as a result. The work is hard, but pays well and the company is good to work for in terms of benefits and stability.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:36 am

I went to the gun shop/range on Sunday and was pleasantly surprised when they voluntarily told me that all staff was vaccinated.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:39 am

Walmart again. As I walked in the woman in front of me looked to be 70 and 300+ lbs. No mask. Its like the walking dead.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 am

Good news: Our company announced a vaccine requirement last week, that goes into effect on Oct 1.

Bad news: Within an hour of that announcement, they also sent out an invite for a large farewell dinner for all local staff (a couple hundred people) for one of our execs that's retiring. It will be held in a big indoor hotel ballroom next week, and everyone is expected to attend.

I'm trying to figure out how to get out of it without getting in too much trouble.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:08 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 am I'm trying to figure out how to get out of it without getting in too much trouble.

To: Boss
CC: HR

Subject: Retirement Party RSVP

Not only no, but Fuck No. Please send exec my best regards.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:23 pm

Local dermatologist with a popular and successful practice just put out an add desperately seeking employees. Apparently, she mandated that everyone in her practice be vaccinated, and her entire front office staff quit. Receptionists, accounting, assistants. All quit rather than get vaccinated.

Meanwhile, despite mask mandates and social distancing, my kids are reporting that their teachers are preparing for the schools to close again and to shift to all-remote learning. We haven't heard that from the school yet, but based on the steady drip of cases being reported from the high school and middle school and the hysterical reactions we're seeing in the community, I wouldn't be surprised if that's where we're heading.

I couldn't be more unhappy with this situation. I've got a senior and a junior in high school. These are key years for those two as they prepare for college. And my youngest in 8th grade is already having a terrible time readjusting to actual school. Remote learning over the last year and a half was pretty much garbage time for him. He's the kind of kid who can and will game the system, and so he skirted by with straight A's but doing little to no work. It's like he may as well have missed a year and a half of school. He is so far behind and having such a difficult time getting back into the swing of things now, if he gets pulled out and put into remote learning again, I kind of feel like it's going to be the nail in his academic coffin. Which sucks, because he's a smart kid who has a lot of potential.

All this is the result of the idiots who won't get vaccinated. I'm also feeling more and more that a big part of the blame here lands on our leaders (local, state and national) who are afraid to take strong measures to mandate vaccines.

Seriously. Fuck these people. If you don't want to get vaccinated, go sequester yourself and leave us the hell alone. Do not send your kids to school with my kids. Do not infect them and their teachers. Do not go to work.

You want back in to society? Act like a rational human being and take the free, highly available, potentially life-saving vaccination we are offering you. Or go play the death lottery alone under some rock somewhere.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:24 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 am I'm trying to figure out how to get out of it without getting in too much trouble.

Call in sick.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:25 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 am Good news: Our company announced a vaccine requirement last week, that goes into effect on Oct 1.

Bad news: Within an hour of that announcement, they also sent out an invite for a large farewell dinner for all local staff (a couple hundred people) for one of our execs that's retiring. It will be held in a big indoor hotel ballroom next week, and everyone is expected to attend.

I'm trying to figure out how to get out of it without getting in too much trouble.

Sorry, but I was in close contact with a reported positive case, so I need to self-isolate for a few days instead of going. Gosh darn it! I was really looking forward to it, too . . . .

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:29 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 am Good news: Our company announced a vaccine requirement last week, that goes into effect on Oct 1.

Bad news: Within an hour of that announcement, they also sent out an invite for a large farewell dinner for all local staff (a couple hundred people) for one of our execs that's retiring. It will be held in a big indoor hotel ballroom next week, and everyone is expected to attend.

I'm trying to figure out how to get out of it without getting in too much trouble.

Just to highlight the difference, we are forbidden from organizing in person functions regardless of size or reason.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:30 pm

Kurth wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:23 pm Local dermatologist with a popular and successful practice just put out an add desperately seeking employees. Apparently, she mandated that everyone in her practice be vaccinated, and her entire front office staff quit. Receptionists, accounting, assistants. All quit rather than get vaccinated.

A friend of mine had a similar experience in his dentists office. The dentist called to cancel saying he lost his hygienists.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:32 pm

malchior wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:30 pm
Kurth wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:23 pm Local dermatologist with a popular and successful practice just put out an add desperately seeking employees. Apparently, she mandated that everyone in her practice be vaccinated, and her entire front office staff quit. Receptionists, accounting, assistants. All quit rather than get vaccinated.
A friend of mine had a similar experience in his dentists office. The dentist called to cancel saying he lost his hygienists.

Enjoy unemployment - not the payments (since they won't be getting any) but the literal state of being unemployed.

In a just world, those jobs will be quickly filled by vaccinated folks that have the required skills. We shall see.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:39 pm

https://twitter.com/JeriLRyan/status/14 ... 8131974?cn

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:44 pm

Two separate stories here....

1. Veronica Wolski, Chicago woman at the center of ivermectin firestorm, dies of pneumonia due to COVID-19 infection, officials say

Veronica Wolski, the QAnon adherent whose recent hospitalization made her a cause celebre for the controversial medication ivermectin, died in the intensive care unit of AMITA Health Resurrection Medical Center early Monday, a hospital spokeswoman said. She was 64.

Wolski’s cause of death was pneumonia due to COVID-19 infection with hypothyroidism as a contributing factor, a spokeswoman for the Cook County medical examiner’s office said Monday morning. The manner of death was natural.
For more than a week, her supporters had besieged Resurrection with demands that Wolski be given ivermectin. The medication is typically used to treat diseases caused by parasitic worms, but has been hailed as a COVID-19 cure by some despite a lack of definitive scientific proof or government authorization.

2. Alabama man dies after 43 hospitals with full ICUs turned him away; family urges COVID-19 vaccines

The family of an Alabama man who died of heart issues more than 200 miles from his home is asking people to get vaccinated against the coronavirus after more than 40 hospitals across three states were unable to accept him due to full cardiac ICUs.

Ray Martin DeMonia died Sept. 1; three days before his 74th birthday, his family said.

DeMonia suffered a heart attack and was transferred to the nearest available bed, which was more than 200 miles away at Rush Foundation Hospital in Meridian, Mississippi.

In his obituary, his family urged people to get vaccinated against COVID-19.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:45 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:32 pm
malchior wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:30 pm
Kurth wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:23 pm Local dermatologist with a popular and successful practice just put out an add desperately seeking employees. Apparently, she mandated that everyone in her practice be vaccinated, and her entire front office staff quit. Receptionists, accounting, assistants. All quit rather than get vaccinated.
A friend of mine had a similar experience in his dentists office. The dentist called to cancel saying he lost his hygienists.
Enjoy unemployment - not the payments (since they won't be getting any) but the literal state of being unemployed.

In a just world, those jobs will be quickly filled by vaccinated folks that have the required skills. We shall see.

This was NY so I don't know unemployment law there but it'd be *insane* to do it in NJ. Getting fired for not following the mandate is better. At least you might be eligible for benefits eventually. Quitting on your own blows up all eligibility until you work again for a period of time.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:08 pm

Up until some jackasses get it approved as constructive dismissal.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:09 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 am Good news: Our company announced a vaccine requirement last week, that goes into effect on Oct 1.

Bad news: Within an hour of that announcement, they also sent out an invite for a large farewell dinner for all local staff (a couple hundred people) for one of our execs that's retiring. It will be held in a big indoor hotel ballroom next week, and everyone is expected to attend.

I'm trying to figure out how to get out of it without getting in too much trouble.

You have kids. Why do you ever lack an excuse?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:34 pm

Very serious.

https://mobile.twitter.com/prchovanec/s ... 7165685769

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:42 pm

Kurth wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:23 pmI couldn't be more unhappy with this situation.

...

Stuff about the folks who are causing this, and what they should but most definitely will not do...

Welcome to the 'we're fucked' bandwagon. I just ate the last cookies, but we'll have more shortly.

LordMortis wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:08 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 am I'm trying to figure out how to get out of it without getting in too much trouble.
To: Boss
CC: HR

Subject: Retirement Party RSVP

Not only no, but Fuck No. Please send exec my best regards.

I see pre-retirement is setting in. Awesome!

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:43 pm

What's with the image of Biden doing some weird half-blink? It looks like he has some dust in his eye or something. If you're accusing him of being a tyrant, shouldn't you use an image where he looks at least vaguely sinister?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:55 pm

El Guapo wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:43 pm What's with the image of Biden doing some weird half-blink? It looks like he has some dust in his eye or something. If you're accusing him of being a tyrant, shouldn't you use an image where he looks at least vaguely sinister?

He has to be both sinister and old/inept to keep both of the the GOP charades going.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:04 pm

Daehawk wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:44 pm Two separate stories here....

1. Veronica Wolski, Chicago woman at the center of ivermectin firestorm, dies of pneumonia due to COVID-19 infection, officials say

Veronica Wolski, the QAnon adherent whose recent hospitalization made her a cause celebre for the controversial medication ivermectin, died in the intensive care unit of AMITA Health Resurrection Medical Center early Monday, a hospital spokeswoman said. She was 64.

Wolski’s cause of death was pneumonia due to COVID-19 infection with hypothyroidism as a contributing factor, a spokeswoman for the Cook County medical examiner’s office said Monday morning. The manner of death was natural.
For more than a week, her supporters had besieged Resurrection with demands that Wolski be given ivermectin. The medication is typically used to treat diseases caused by parasitic worms, but has been hailed as a COVID-19 cure by some despite a lack of definitive scientific proof or government authorization.

She's been a neighborhood fixture for some time, hanging out on an overpass on the Kennedy with her signs. Back in 2015/2016 she was a Bernie Bro but somewhere along the way she turned into a Q devotee. Her followers are now spamming the neighborhood message boards claiming the hospital murdered her by denying her ivermectin.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:50 pm

malchior wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:34 pm Very serious.

https://mobile.twitter.com/prchovanec/s ... 7165685769

You'd think they could get kicked out of Congress for malpractice.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:27 pm

It's all performative outrage for Cawthorn, Greene, Boebert, and others of their ilk.

raydude · Post by **raydude** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:54 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 am Good news: Our company announced a vaccine requirement last week, that goes into effect on Oct 1.

Bad news: Within an hour of that announcement, they also sent out an invite for a large farewell dinner for all local staff (a couple hundred people) for one of our execs that's retiring. It will be held in a big indoor hotel ballroom next week, and everyone is expected to attend.

I'm trying to figure out how to get out of it without getting in too much trouble.

If it’s not being billed as an office meeting I don’t see how work can ding you for not going to a dinner.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:04 pm

raydude wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:54 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 am Good news: Our company announced a vaccine requirement last week, that goes into effect on Oct 1.

Bad news: Within an hour of that announcement, they also sent out an invite for a large farewell dinner for all local staff (a couple hundred people) for one of our execs that's retiring. It will be held in a big indoor hotel ballroom next week, and everyone is expected to attend.

I'm trying to figure out how to get out of it without getting in too much trouble.
If it’s not being billed as an office meeting I don’t see how work can ding you for not going to a dinner.

To clarify, there wouldn't be any formal consequences. The company line would absolutely be "it's totally fine, you do what you feel is best for you and your family".

It's the potential informal/office politics sort of consequences that might hurt. I.E. "You know who didn't show up for the CEO's retirement dinner? Skinypupy. If he can't even bother doing that, then maybe he's not really committed enough to be management material after all..."

I typically don't get sucked into any of that nonsense, but I'm currently in a spot where I'm trying to move up a bit in the org. Missing out on a big black tie, "hobnob with all the bigwigs" sort of event could potentially hurt those prospects. Frankly, it kinda pisses me off that I even need to consider this.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:28 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:04 pm I typically don't get sucked into any of that nonsense, but I'm currently in a spot where I'm trying to move up a bit in the org. Missing out on a big black tie, "hobnob with all the bigwigs" sort of event could potentially hurt those prospects. Frankly, it kinda pisses me off that I even need to consider this.

Alternatively, there might be a number of openings after this group gathering...maybe 30 days or so.

But seriously, do you know what the protocol will be? You have young kids so *in theory* you wearing a mask there isn't unreasonable. Eating is going to be a red flag affair but going and hanging out in a mask is certainly feasible. Though if you're the only one in a mask, that might not be helpful.

Have you considered arranging to be (gently) hit by a car the day of the event? I'm so sorry you need to deal with this; it's crap.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:29 pm

So possible move up one day vs possible death and be buried sooner than expected.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:43 am

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:04 pm
raydude wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:54 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:24 am Good news: Our company announced a vaccine requirement last week, that goes into effect on Oct 1.

Bad news: Within an hour of that announcement, they also sent out an invite for a large farewell dinner for all local staff (a couple hundred people) for one of our execs that's retiring. It will be held in a big indoor hotel ballroom next week, and everyone is expected to attend.

I'm trying to figure out how to get out of it without getting in too much trouble.
If it’s not being billed as an office meeting I don’t see how work can ding you for not going to a dinner.
To clarify, there wouldn't be any formal consequences. The company line would absolutely be "it's totally fine, you do what you feel is best for you and your family".

It's the potential informal/office politics sort of consequences that might hurt. I.E. "You know who didn't show up for the CEO's retirement dinner? Skinypupy. If he can't even bother doing that, then maybe he's not really committed enough to be management material after all..."

I typically don't get sucked into any of that nonsense, but I'm currently in a spot where I'm trying to move up a bit in the org. Missing out on a big black tie, "hobnob with all the bigwigs" sort of event could potentially hurt those prospects. Frankly, it kinda pisses me off that I even need to consider this.

What's the vaccination rate? We've had a few similar but smaller send-offs and everyone was vaccinated. No bad outcomes.