The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:19 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:27 pm
Daehawk wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:25 pm Chicago - "So I see you have chosen death"
Chicago chose to mandate. Federal and county judges chose to block the mandate (temporarily).

FWIW, the cops didn't have to be vaccinated until the end of the year. The nurses had to be vaccinated by midnight on 10/31.

Spoke with a judge over a few drinks,.the CPD one is all procedural. They haven't exhausted contractual remedies yet. Basically sending the city back to the negotiating table.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:02 am

Business wins:

President Joe Biden will begin enforcing his mandate that private-sector workers be vaccinated against COVID-19 or be tested weekly starting Jan. 4, in a reprieve to companies struggling with labor shortages during the crucial U.S. holiday season.

U.S. officials on Thursday also said a requirement that federal contractors be vaccinated was moved back a month to the same date. Millions of workers in healthcare facilities and nursing homes participating in Medicare and Medicaid will need to get their shots by Jan. 4 as well.

Biden established the requirements to raise vaccination rates and get more people back to work. But in numerous meetings with companies and industry groups representing retailers, logistics companies, construction workers, executives asked the administration to delay the implementation deadline after the New Year, citing concerns about worker shortages.

Employers will also not be required to provide or pay for tests and the rule offers medical and religious exemptions.

Failure to comply with the mandate will result in an approximately $14,000 fine per violation with a scale that increases with several violations, senior administration officials said. They did not offer clarity on whether workers will be fired if they refuse to get the shot or tested.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:32 am

https://mobile.twitter.com/keithboykin/ ... 1899122688

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:32 am

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:02 am Business wins:

They did not offer clarity on whether workers will be fired if they refuse to get the shot or tested.

What other option is there? Unpaid indefinite furlough?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:35 am

malchior wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:32 am https://mobile.twitter.com/keithboykin/ ... 1899122688

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:38 am

stessier wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:32 am What other option is there? Unpaid indefinite furlough?

If you work in a manufacturing facility and refuse to wear PPE or follow safety regulations, how many hours does it take to get fired?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:43 am

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:38 am
stessier wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:32 am What other option is there? Unpaid indefinite furlough?
If you work in a manufacturing facility and refuse to wear PPE or follow safety regulations, how many hours does it take to get fired?

I know - which makes the idea of not offering clarity stupid. "They will get reviewed for termination as I would expect would any employee who refused to comply with safety regulations" is the one and only answer needed.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:45 am

Got it. I think we're on the same page. The trick will be in getting people outside the manufacturing facility (office workers) to understand how OSHA regulations apply to them. While they might not have direct historical experience or necessarily benefit from a majority of what is covered through OSHA, they do now.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:18 pm

Jan 4 2022 is the federal requirement for all health care workers to have the vax. Any provider/facility that accepts Medicare/caid funds. Which means over 17M healthcare workers. So all those that quit rather than get the jab, good luck staying in the field.

This is over and above the OSHA vaccine requirements that are limited to workplaces with over 100 employees and allow for testing exceptions.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:15 pm

So this headline feels quite... tangled.

AZ Supreme Court justices uphold ruling that blocks state's mask mandate ban

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/video/997174

Justices on the Arizona State Supreme Court have upheld a judgment from a lower court that found a mask mandate ban passed by the GOP-controlled state legislature as having violated the state's constitution. FOX 10's Matt Galka reports.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:50 pm

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/stat ... 7943602181

Newsmax is implementing a vaccine mandate and is requiring all employees to be vaxxed by Jan. 4, or undergo weekly COVID tests.

Railing against vax mandates has been a regular feature of Newsmax programming.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:56 pm

Eh, if they were forced to implement it because of the new rule targeting companies with 100 or more employees, I wouldn't consider it hypocritical.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:18 pm

5th Circuit blocks Biden administration private vaccine mandate and offers expedited hearings.

CNN

In the brief order, a three-judge panel on the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals said that the petitioners in the case -- Republican-led states and private businesses -- "give cause to believe there are grave statutory and constitutional issues with the Mandate."

The court asked the government to respond by 5 p.m. on Monday and said it would expedite the case. The court did not specify whether its order would have nationwide effect or would only apply to the states under its jurisdiction.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:20 pm

More background

https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/statu ... 0045828096

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:35 pm

Seriously. File a criminal complaint against someone that you suspect had or performed an abortion? Awesome. Mandating health and safety regulations for the workplace? No, no, we cannot have that - you've gone too far.

We are off the goddam rails.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:23 pm

It's rather ridiculous. But there was never any chance that this was going to take effect without legal challenge, so buckle up, I guess.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:08 pm

Covid-19: Researcher blows the whistle on data integrity issues in Pfizer’s vaccine trial

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:13 pm

Counterpoint:

https://twitter.com/CDlbcl/status/1455800766917189634

This headline is inappropriately alarmist given the content of the paper.

It will obviously be misused by anti vaxxers.

I thought it worth a short thread to highlight what it means.

TL;DR nothing in this paper undermine trust in data on BioNtech / Pfizer trials.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:46 pm

I still plan to get my Pfizer booster next week if I can. I dont care what the stupid do.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:28 am

Daehawk wrote:I dont care what the stupid do.

Sadly that's become my default state to endure the pandemic. I can't force people to do the right thing, so all I can do is do the right thing for my family and I. I feel like I've been forced into being the same selfish, uncaring person that everyone around me seems to be.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:47 am

We have to care what the stupid are doing because their decisions affect us. Dealing with them? That's a whole different discussion. But ignoring them? That's why we're on the current path of ~1000 deaths a day nationwide for the last two months and no one is blinking.

As another example of how far gone we are:

https://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/stat ... 0901363714

They're actually going after... Big Bird for promoting the COVID vaccine?

Imagine being triggered by a fictional character promoting a vaccine that has already saved countless lives.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:42 am

First they came for Mister Rodgers, and I said nothing, as he was not my neighbor…

Do they not realize that Big Bird is a government contractor?

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:12 pm

Big Bird is another name for the Fowl industrial complex - it's not part of the government, but it's got tons of lobbyists.

(It's why a turkey gets pardoned every year).

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sun Nov 07, 2021 3:34 pm

It's going to be a hard sell for people in places that are not getting hit hard to not go back to normal.

For example, we have 8 Covid patients in the hospital right now. During peak times we had 150+.

The 1000 deaths a day doesn't really mean much here, and if you couldn't get people to wear masks/get vaccinated when we had 150 in the hospital, you're sure as hell not going to do it now.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:45 pm

https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1 ... 1765550082

There is a viral disease

Where most infections are mild, asymptomatic

With a very low fatality rate

And large age gradient: kids are even lower risk than adults

And less than 1% of kids have any serious complications at all

Yup

Polio

And we vaccinate against it

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:06 pm

This is such a mistake:

Gov. Tom Wolf said he plans to lift the state’s K-12 school mask mandate on January. 17, 2022, leaving the decision on masking to local officials.

In New Jersey, Gov. Phil Murphy suggested changes could be coming here, too, at his Monday coronavirus briefing.

“The executive order for mask mandates in schools, and I’m not suggesting this is the date... January 11 that expires,” he said. “I hope this is the beginning of a process. I can’t tell you when, it won’t be today, but sooner than later.”

You don't lift a mask mandate in schools for an airborne respiratory virus at the height of winter during a goddamn pandemic. We have learned nothing. I give up.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:14 pm

You lie. If you were a giver-upper, you would have given up a long ass time ago.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:16 pm

I am legitimately at the end of my rope.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:17 pm

And Murphy just got reelected, so it's not like he has political pressure to blame for this.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:23 pm

It's annoying, but expect to see a lot more of that. Everyone in the 5-11 cohort that wants to be vaccinated has the opportunity to be fully-vaxxed by Christmas. Powers that be are going to latch onto that as a reason that mask mandates in schools are no longer required.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:24 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:45 pm
Polio

And we vaccinate against it

Well, for now you do. Just give it some time...

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:09 pm

We were talking last night about getting the Wonder Twins 8.4 vaccinated. We tried to get on the list as soon as we could, but it will still be a two week wait for them to get the first shot. There's lots of kids in Utah.

Little B 12.9 told us yesterday that she plans to keep wearing a mask at school, even though she knows she doesn't have to. She said "I just feel better knowing that I can't accidentally give it to someone on the slim chance I have COVID". Made me proud to know she gets it...wish we could say the same for adults.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:26 pm

Surprising no one here, A huge number of US adults lack basic critical thinking skills.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:54 am

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:26 pm Surprising no one here, A huge number of US adults lack basic critical thinking skills.

The headline:

38% of US adults believe government is faking COVID-19 death toll

I guess I fit into that category, just not in the way they intended - I believe the many state governments are going out of their way to present the data in a manner that understates the death toll by either not looking too closely at peripheral cases, tweaking the presentation of the data, or constantly rewriting the definition of what qualifies as a 'COVID death.'

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:47 am

https://mobile.twitter.com/washingtonpo ... 3413779466

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:24 am

It would be great if I could muster up some sympathy for him but all that tweet does is make me hope his loss serves as a prompt for other holdouts to go get vaccinated.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:30 am

Remus West wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:24 am It would be great if I could muster up some sympathy for him but all that tweet does is make me hope his loss serves as a prompt for other holdouts to go get vaccinated.

+1, but it won't and it hurts to know this at the personal level.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:34 am

For shot #2 it took about 24 hours to get severe flu-like symptoms that lasted 12 hours or so. Knocked me on my ass.

I got my booster yesterday and the onset was much quicker, like 4 hours and I was out again for 10-12 hours. Still feel like shit (sore arm, headache) but didn't get a fever.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:44 am

LordMortis wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:30 am
Remus West wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:24 am It would be great if I could muster up some sympathy for him but all that tweet does is make me hope his loss serves as a prompt for other holdouts to go get vaccinated.
+1, but it won't and it hurts to know this at the personal level.

Exactly. I weep inside for the loss of empathy I have experienced. I have become less of a person that I used to be. Or perhaps I have simply developed a better self awareness and have always been this way.

Two days ago I stopped and helped a guy push his car out of traffic because he had run out of gas and was pushing it alone. Two other people also stopped and helped and we easily moved the car. Rather than leaving feeling warm from a sense of community and good about helping I left wondering about their vaccination status and if I'd been near enough long enough to be at risk of bringing crap home to my unvaccinated daughter (who gets her shot in two weeks because that was the soonest we could get in - which is a good thing because that means a LOT of people are scheduling their children).