How is your career going?

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, the one time I submitted my resignation, my boss was actually angry at me. However for 6+ months prior she'd been telling me there was talk of cutting my position completely or cutting it down to part time. I now think she was trying to "scare" me into working harder and be appreciative that she was really "going to bat" to keep me fully employed - maintaining an abusive relationship. She didn't consider that by telling me that it lit a fire to find employment elsewhere and as soon as I did, I quit on the spot. She gambled and I called her bluff. As you may recall, this was the boss that told me on my first day that I actually wasn't her first choice as a hire but the other person turned down the offer to it was offered to me. Talk about setting the tone immediately - I should have quit right then. Anyway, to malchior's point they're not listening to you and assuming, oh he's still coming in, everything is super. You really do need to prioritize your own mental health.

Also, when you finally draw a line in the sand and give them a day (like some random date in March), expect things to get worse between now and then. What I'm saying is giving them 6 months notice might really work against you. Consider telling them on February 1st you're leaving March 1st. Maybe even less.

[LordMortis]

It's possible they didn't take your conversation seriously.

I think they are trying to show compassion and leave me an out to stay and in doing so are not understanding the urgency at which I feel done. I keep trying to express it but without a firm exit date, I think it's not taken to heart.

Another is that they might not get what you do. Meaning they have no idea what the impact of you leaving will be and that it is a fundamental emergency.

They don't and they know it. I don't want to get in the mud on that conversation because it's not right for the company. It's something that needs to get better when they find the next round of help, which hopefully will be more than one person.

expect things to get worse between now and then. What I'm saying is giving them 6 months notice might really work against you. Consider telling them on February 1st you're leaving March 1st. Maybe even less.

I think about that and I won't accept it. I think the answer of offboarding me is going to be giving me more work and that's not negotiable. I don't think my boss will try to make it harder. I don't think her boss will try to make it harder. I think the other entities we act as customer service toward will insist on it and I simply won't comply. But that's putting the horse before the cart at this point... Something my anxiety is all but too happy to do...

[FishPants]

LM - Set your date, which it sounds like is in March but follow Smoove's advice. You've given plenty of notice already, and this company has abused you for years - make the decision about March based on the longer run improvements income wise (does that bridge you to retirement fund draw down now?).

Also - Fuck the dog. I mean it. Unless a server room is on fire, log a ticket and enjoy a cup of coffee. Go for lunch, then go for a walk, then go back. I was in a miserable place of work 3 jobs ago (so about 8 years ago now?) where it went from a fantastic place to work to working for the most evil SOB ever (CTO retired because "I have too much money I won't spend it all now because of my stock options"... Same conversation he told me my pittance of a stock option grant was now gone because new CTO demanded such a big package, all directors had theirs pulled to fund him). Anyways long story short is I had gut wrenching anxiety working for this maniac -- every day I got up in the winter in the darkness, drove 30 mins to the train station, got on the train for 1:20 minutes and then transferred to a subway for another 20 minutes. ONE WAY. On top of that the guy was a grade A cocksucker for a lot of reasons.

Anyhow one night I wake up to my heart doing things a heart shouldn't do (and this had never happened in my life before).. I end up in the ER; lots of tests, some suggestions - the primary one being "quit". So I put my resume out there, but didn't take the first thing that came along - I wanted to be sure this time I wasn't working for another asshat.. It took a few months, but you know what I did in the meantime at current job? Sweet. Fuck. All. I told my boss what he wanted to hear to keep him off my back, otherwise I had some spectacular lunches and walks - saw some museums, did shit for me and it did a lot for my mental health.

When I found a new job I just quit on the spot with Mr. McCockFace, and the irony is a year or two later when he was finally fired - he actually reached out to me on LinkedIn to ask me to intro him to my current boss for his own private consulting company he was starting. That was the first and last time I've used "LMAO Get fucked" on LinkedIn.

Anyways that's a really long and roundabout way of saying to abuse the shit out of that "free" money - they want your name on the desk to fill a hole while they navel gaze and contemplate your replacement? Fine! But bro; working notice for that long and actually working? Hell no. Learn to screw the pooch a bit (I haven't since, but that's because I have a job I love).

Good luck man, fuck that place.

[dfs]

LM,
Just adding my collective weight to the previous post. Yup. Yup. Yup.

[Drazzil]

Its like bad relationships. Once you get loose of them you will wonder how and why you stayed so long.

Or I'll get all passive aggressive and never want to hear their name again...

Really, I have no love for the company but I do care about many of the people I work with and they will have a really bad time for quite some time if I check out without having a replacement settled and in place. At the same time, I can't wait forever. March is not the deadline they want to hear but it's the one they are going to get. It's not a good time to work on replacing me but quite frankly with the way the shop is run, it will never be a good time.

Rescind march and tell them you're done in 2 weeks but would be happy to continue on after that at a consultant rate at a hair short of extortionate.

[Kraken]

Its like bad relationships. Once you get loose of them you will wonder how and why you stayed so long.

Or I'll get all passive aggressive and never want to hear their name again...

Really, I have no love for the company but I do care about many of the people I work with and they will have a really bad time for quite some time if I check out without having a replacement settled and in place. At the same time, I can't wait forever. March is not the deadline they want to hear but it's the one they are going to get. It's not a good time to work on replacing me but quite frankly with the way the shop is run, it will never be a good time.

Rescind march and tell them you're done in 2 weeks but would be happy to continue on after that at a consultant rate at a hair short of extortionate.

That's the logical play but LM fears free agency and doesn't want to hurt their feelings. He could make good bank on the way to the exit if he wanted to, but free agency isn't in his wheelhouse.

[LordMortis]

FP, wow. Glad you got out.

4 more months won't fully bridge the gap but I'm OK with that. If I underestimate the lifestyle I need to bridge the gap to my 401K, I'll still have plenty of time to fix that at a low income job with trivial benefits.


The not hurting feeling is a thing or worst the idea of burning bridges if I need to go back to work anywhere. Free agency is possibly on the table but you are right it appeals to me not. If I have to go back to work I want to be a cog, an interchangeable part of a team. Someone asks me to do things that check boxes, I check those boxes and get another list.

[TheMix]

<snipped>

I agree 100% with everything FP posted. Probably because I had similar experiences. Including chest pains and doctor visits from stress. To the point that I think it's likely the stress has shortened my life expectancy. And I get what you are saying, LM, I had some of the same feelings. Loyalty towards my co-workers. It makes it hard. But you need to get over/past that. They also have the option to get out if it gets bad. You aren't responsible for them. This is your life. And it's the only one you are going to get.

Personally, I think March is absurd. Based on the amount of notice you've given them. I think you should tell them December 31st, but that you'll consider some amount of part-time contract work through March.

[TheMix]

The not hurting feeling is a thing or worst the idea of burning bridges if I need to go back to work anywhere.

It is. It definitely is. I feel you. I want the same thing.

If I have to go back to work I want to be a cog, an interchangeable part of a team. Someone asks me to do things that check boxes, I check those boxes and get another list.

Me too. Me too. But I don't know where it exists any more. Small companies, maybe. Startups. Though with a startup you likely would have to deal with lots of hours. Though if the work environment is good, that might not come with unwanted stress. But I've become jaded to bigger companies (and I'm only talking about a couple hundred people, maybe... anything big enough that you are insulated from anyone more than a couple levels above in the food chain). At that point you have to realize that "they" (the people at the top making the decisions) don't know or care about you. And even if you have the greatest boss in the world, if you aren't being treated well at the corporate peon level (i.e. discounting that your boss may be trying to insulate you and treat you well), understand that you. don't. owe. them. shit.

Look at it this way. You have a "contract" with the company. You promise to do your job to the best of your ability. And they promise to take care of you (health-life balance, benefits, etc.). In your case that contract is broken. But you are still trying to uphold your end. Stop. I think that if you can get out from under this, your health will recover. Some.

Hell, I can even sleep on my left side now. Sometimes. I had to stop because it would trigger the chest pains that developed from all the stress. It's taken years, but recovery can happen.

[Default]

Go work for a temp agency. You said trivial job, right?

[FishPants]

FP, wow. Glad you got out.

4 more months won't fully bridge the gap but I'm OK with that. If I underestimate the lifestyle I need to bridge the gap to my 401K, I'll still have plenty of time to fix that at a low income job with trivial benefits.


The not hurting feeling is a thing or worst the idea of burning bridges if I need to go back to work anywhere. Free agency is possibly on the table but you are right it appeals to me not. If I have to go back to work I want to be a cog, an interchangeable part of a team. Someone asks me to do things that check boxes, I check those boxes and get another list.

Me too! I still have some form of PTSD from working for that clown (he used to fire teams of people without even thinking about it.. he fucked up his strategy and a team didn't deliver because of his changing scope, then he got bored and just let 25 people go and it didn't even phase him). Now I'm at one of the best employers in Canada (my previous company got swallowed up by them) and I'm running the show in Infosec for a company of 27k employees - it's fucking nerve wracking at times, but I catch myself still expecting the worst from my boss/company at times because of the two years I worked for that chump.

Seriously though, slow roll your tickets; and go for those lunches. I know the weather is turning to the shits, but on the few nice days take a couple hours and go for a walk somewhere. What the fuck are they going to do about it? Fire you? You've basically been begging them to let you cut ties. If you can actually make ends meet without making that your new stress though, just go in on Monday and give 2 weeks notice firm "due to health issues"; that should settle that - otherwise milk it. I savored the days at the royal ontario museum, and the art gallery of ontario - I found some great asian places to eat in Chinatown in Toronto, and spent quiet afternoons on a patio in tucked away locations in the city.

Life's short enough, you don't owe that fuckhole anything.

A very good quote is from one of my favourite dudes that I miss still today, Anthony Bourdain:

Eat at a local restaurant tonight. Get the cream sauce. Have a cold pint at 4 o’clock in a mostly empty bar. Go somewhere you’ve never been. Listen to someone you think may have nothing in common with you. Order the steak rare. Eat an oyster. Have a negroni. Have two. Be open to a world where you may not understand or agree with the person next to you, but have a drink with them anyways. Eat slowly. Tip your server. Check in on your friends. Check in on yourself. Enjoy the ride.
– Anthony Bourdain.

[LordMortis]

Eat at a local restaurant tonight. Get the cream sauce. Have a cold pint at 4 o’clock in a mostly empty bar. Go somewhere you’ve never been. Listen to someone you think may have nothing in common with you. Order the steak rare. Eat an oyster. Have a negroni. Have two. Be open to a world where you may not understand or agree with the person next to you, but have a drink with them anyways. Eat slowly. Tip your server. Check in on your friends. Check in on yourself. Enjoy the ride.
– Anthony Bourdain.

I want that. That's my goal.

[FishPants]

I want that. That's my goal.

Quit Monday + 2 weeks, hard stop - health reasons. That's not a lie, prioritize you for a change.

[LordMortis]

March will be prioritizing me. OtOH, if they don't like the answer they likely push the date up, not out. So looking forward to it.

[stimpy]

A very good quote is from one of my favourite dudes that I miss still today, Anthony Bourdain:

Eat at a local restaurant tonight. Get the cream sauce. Have a cold pint at 4 o’clock in a mostly empty bar. Go somewhere you’ve never been. Listen to someone you think may have nothing in common with you. Order the steak rare. Eat an oyster. Have a negroni. Have two. Be open to a world where you may not understand or agree with the person next to you, but have a drink with them anyways. Eat slowly. Tip your server. Check in on your friends. Check in on yourself. Enjoy the ride.
– Anthony Bourdain.

It's hard to read something like that from someone who committed suicide.
Apparently he could think the thoughts and write the words, but not take his own advise.
Truly sad.

[dfs]

Seriously though, slow roll your tickets; and go for those lunches. I know the weather is turning to the shits, but on the few nice days take a couple hours and go for a walk somewhere. What the fuck are they going to do about it? Fire you? You've basically been begging them to let you cut ties. If you can actually make ends meet without making that your new stress though, just go in on Monday and give 2 weeks notice firm "due to health issues"; that should settle that - otherwise milk it. I savored the days at the royal ontario museum, and the art gallery of ontario - I found some great asian places to eat in Chinatown in Toronto, and spent quiet afternoons on a patio in tucked away locations in the city.

Spend at least a day a week channeling Peter Gibbons from Office space. Come in late. Do what you want to do. Chat with coworkers in the morning. Go for a long lunch. Explore your building in the afternoon. Leave early. It will brighten up all your hours.

[Zarathud]

At the end of the day, the company is paying you to work and put up with their bullshit. You’re past the point the pay isn’t worth the cost. You’ve given plenty of notice, and they will keep you as long as dealing with your bullshit is a better option than doing without.

Every day you wake up, you have a choice to work or stop. There may be consequences, but realizing you have the power may help with the stress.

[Jeff V]

I just checked out a job listing that LinkedIn sent me. Senior Infrastructure Manager. ENTRY LEVEL. Requires 15 years experience.

I don't meet the application delivery requirements, so I won't bother applying.

On Friday, I got an inquiry from a company that was an 80% job...meaning I'm about 80% what they were looking for. I was going out of town on a long weekend, and asked if we could schedule a call today...crickets.

Another job that called unexpectedly 2 weeks ago (their meeting invite somehow wasn't visible in Gmail, unless I search for it). I don't care for ambush interviews, I like to be a little bit prepared. That led me to be especially nervous, and some questions I simply could not answer because I was unprepared. But they set up a follow-up interview this week.

[Jeff V]

And after closer review, the interview scheduled tomorrow is in-person, downtown Chicago, 2:30-3:30. No can do...I need to be home by 4:15 to take my son to dance class...which has Parents Observation Day so I need to be there for show of support. The commute (if train schedules align) is 90 minutes at best. Driving could be upwards of 3 hours.

I requested a reschedule to earlier in the day, but...crickets. Oh well, it's a non-for-profit organization so they likely won't be showering me with the bucks needed to make it work (it's an ass-in-the-office job). I'd need to hire an ersatz parent to get them off to school in the morning (daughter needs to be driven) and to dance class 2 nights a week.

[Kasey Chang]

I think I have a lead on my next job... as a driver again. A competitor of my last employer. And their office is not far from my house, which is even better for me. Possibly at a slightly better pay as well. We shall see.

[Formix]

The not hurting feeling is a thing or worst the idea of burning bridges if I need to go back to work anywhere.

Look at it this way. You have a "contract" with the company. You promise to do your job to the best of your ability. And they promise to take care of you (health-life balance, benefits, etc.). In your case that contract is broken.

This is always how I have looked at employment. "I agree to do X, you agree to supply me with remuneration Y" If you change X too much without me agreeing to it, we no longer have a contract.

Lots of change where I work. Senior leadership is retiring, my director is leaving soon, and would recommend me for their position. Not sure I want it, and not sure the new senior leadership would agree, and even if they do, I'm not sure I want to work with them.
So I applied for another director position at what looks like a nice company. I have my first phone interview tomorrow. Not certain I have what it takes, but does anyone ever think they do?

[ImLawBoy]

Today marks my 24th anniversary with AT&T (although I started with Ameritech, which was acquired by SBC, which acquired AT&T and took the AT&T name). I remember looking at my ID when I started and noting that it expired in 2 years. "Like I'm still going to be here then," I thought.

[stessier]

Today marks my 24th anniversary with AT&T (although I started with Ameritech, which was acquired by SBC, which acquired AT&T and took the AT&T name). I remember looking at my ID when I started and noting that it expired in 2 years. "Like I'm still going to be here then," I thought.

Congrats!! I think we've all said that at some point.

[hepcat]

I still always hope you're the switchboard operator when I use my phone.

[ImLawBoy]

After 24 years? Heck, I supervise the switchboard operators.

[FishPants]

Not certain I have what it takes, but does anyone ever think they do?

Yeah every time I think that, I get promoted or something. Our company got acquired by a behemoth in the industry, and I thought "well for sure they already have a security team in place, let alone an exec to run it" and I was right, but they put me on a retention bonus to make sure I didn't bail early while they figure out how to integrate everything.. Except it ends up the exec in charge wants to retire, so they are just putting me into this massive role (my team is a few hundred people now.. it used to be 30).

Imposter syndrome is real, so enjoy the ride and try not to think about it too much!

[malchior]

I have been enjoying my run at a lower pace boutique consulting company. I had clients who were easy to manage and appreciated the help. I charged fair rates to help them out. It was nice. That all changed a few weeks ago when I ran into the consultants worst nightmare, the super unreasonable client.

I have experience working with unreasonable clients since I have worked in competitive consulting at Fortune 5 and Fortune 50 type companies. Those clients can be very demanding. This one takes cake and unfortunately I can't get into the details but my problem revolves around a tooth I broke on my first client trip out there.

The day after I broke the tooth I tried to push a meeting to get an appointment to have the issue evaluated but the client insisted on keeping the meeting. I did a lot of dialing and was able to sneak an emergency dentist's appointment early in the morning. I was afraid to fly back home until I knew what I was dealing with. They said I was fine to travel but to get it evaluated as soon as I got home. I got home, visited my dentist, and had to schedule surgery and follow up appointments.

The client then insisted I fly back out the next week. I told them what was happening but they were unmoved. Dutifully I moved the surgery and dental follow up appointments -- one of which was today. On Friday afternoon, just before I flew back home, I had a client call when a senior executive asked to up our urgency. I guess skipping dentist's appointments didn't demonstrate enough urgency. Anyway they dropped a meeting on my calendar that overlapped today's appointment. I pushed back and they once again insisted that I join the call. Lovely human beings.

I called the dentist on Saturday but the office wasn't open (it usually would be but wasn't due to the holiday). They just called me a few minutes ago, I explained my dilemma and they said they could only fit me in next week now. I can't do it because the client -- no surprise -- wants me back out next week. I even asked for the meeting to just slip an hour back but it is with executives so I knew that was a pipe dream.

So now I'm in a pickle because I can't get the health care issue taken care of because the client is desperate and holding huge purse strings. To make a bad situation worse, on Thursday the person who owned the client relationship up and quit the engagement. Partly because he is a huge drama queen and wasn't the star of the show (seriously - my boss agreed with my assessment on it) leaving me solo on it. I'm the technical muscle the project needs and no one else in my group can help with this issue. The colleague basically took the exit ramp I didn't think existed. Quitting the engagement was a possibility? I would have tried it if I'd known. But frankly I couldn't have done it because the project would have collapsed. He only gets away with this because the project can survive him leaving. Ugh. Consulting is great until it is fucking horrible.

[Jeff V]

So I did have the interview last week after all, the CIO met me at an unfinished facility in Lisle, about half way between where I live and downtown (and Stimpy's old playpen). The interview went pretty well all in all, although there was an impromptu tech interview, most things I knew, some I guessed at (like specific syntax for some Excel functions). After he declared the interview over, he offered an assessment, saying I did really well and I'm a viable candidate (he has a few more interviews yet), I'm strong technically, HOWEVER, I should not act so confidently when giving a bullshit answer when I'm guessing wrongly on something I really don't know. Anyway, his interviews will finish up next week, so I ought to hear something after that. It would be an interesting position -- half my staff would be regular employees, the other half people in their training program. This company also provides IT infrastructure and support for similar non-profits in the job training/retraining space.

[LordMortis]

Boss is back from vacation. Told her March. She shrugged. She has a lot of shit on her plate. She understands and knows exactly why I want out by spring but she also sees the wave and doesn't know it's going to be ridden.

So March it is.

[stimpy]

So I did have the interview last week after all, the CIO met me at an unfinished facility in Lisle, about half way between where I live and downtown (and Stimpy's old playpen). The interview went pretty well all in all, although there was an impromptu tech interview, most things I knew, some I guessed at (like specific syntax for some Excel functions). After he declared the interview over, he offered an assessment, saying I did really well and I'm a viable candidate (he has a few more interviews yet), I'm strong technically, HOWEVER, I should not act so confidently when giving a bullshit answer when I'm guessing wrongly on something I really don't know. Anyway, his interviews will finish up next week, so I ought to hear something after that. It would be an interesting position -- half my staff would be regular employees, the other half people in their training program. This company also provides IT infrastructure and support for similar non-profits in the job training/retraining space.

I loved living in Lisle, but I've gone back there a few times over the past couple years and it's a mere shell of itself these days.
I think Covid hit it hard, as the downtown area was a ghost town and alot of the little local restaurants were shuttered.
But thank goodness Schmaltz is still standing, but even they are going thru major changes. The dine in was completely closed and the place looked like a wreck. Still best corned beef around, though.

[telcta]

Boss is back from vacation. Told her March. She shrugged. She has a lot of shit on her plate. She understands and knows exactly why I want out by spring but she also sees the wave and doesn't know it's going to be ridden.

So March it is.

Excellent! And that's not far away. And you'll be able to go outside this spring and walk (and do whatever) whenever you want.

[Jeff V]

So I did have the interview last week after all, the CIO met me at an unfinished facility in Lisle, about half way between where I live and downtown (and Stimpy's old playpen). The interview went pretty well all in all, although there was an impromptu tech interview, most things I knew, some I guessed at (like specific syntax for some Excel functions). After he declared the interview over, he offered an assessment, saying I did really well and I'm a viable candidate (he has a few more interviews yet), I'm strong technically, HOWEVER, I should not act so confidently when giving a bullshit answer when I'm guessing wrongly on something I really don't know. Anyway, his interviews will finish up next week, so I ought to hear something after that. It would be an interesting position -- half my staff would be regular employees, the other half people in their training program. This company also provides IT infrastructure and support for similar non-profits in the job training/retraining space.

I loved living in Lisle, but I've gone back there a few times over the past couple years and it's a mere shell of itself these days.
I think Covid hit it hard, as the downtown area was a ghost town and alot of the little local restaurants were shuttered.
But thank goodness Schmaltz is still standing, but even they are going thru major changes. The dine in was completely closed and the place looked like a wreck. Still best corned beef around, though.

They even announced that this year was the last for their Balloon festival.

[hepcat]

HOWEVER, I should not act so confidently when giving a bullshit answer when I'm guessing wrongly on something I really don't know.

There goes 90 percent of the tech world!

But in all seriousness, good luck, man!

[Jeff V]

HOWEVER, I should not act so confidently when giving a bullshit answer when I'm guessing wrongly on something I really don't know.

There goes 90 percent of the tech world!

But in all seriousness, good luck, man!

I always preferred written exams, because given that opportunity, I could bullshit like nobody's business. It was a little hard to do on, say, an exam about a book, but easy when it came to composition, history, sociology, psychology and other soft sciences.

And these days really, there's no need to remember trivial shit like exact syntax of things. If the F1 key doesn't give it to you, Google does. Like phone numbers, my brain doesn't make space to keep that sort of info anymore.

[Kasey Chang]

Some progress on the work front.

I have a quick pre-interview (from the recruiter, not employer, who has a position in mind, and already read through my resume) on Monday. It's another auto car position and I *should* be a shoo-in... if they read my resume. I understand it's Thanksgiving Weekend, but they claim to typically take only 3 days to review. It's been more like 5.

And I've been invited for a helpdesk position placement exam for the city on December 6th, which I am not sure if I am going or not. The city's job is part-time on-call, so not sure how much I'd get paid for that, or how the schedule would be like. But may as well see what's up.

[Jeff V]

If you have the bandwidth to take on a part time job (do you currently have a full-time gig? My recollection is that you did), then it might be a helpful step-up to something you want to get into, assuming it was 100% remote and you could do it from the comfort of your home bar.

[hitbyambulance]

found out, 2 1/2 months into my job, that i have not been getting paid what i should be getting - about 40% is missing. i have, needless to say, raised the issue to HR and one of the co-founders.

[Lassr]

found out, 2 1/2 months into my job, that i have not been getting paid what i should be getting - about 40% is missing. i have, needless to say, raised the issue to HR and one of the co-founders.

Why'd it take so long to notice? That's a huge hit.

[LordMortis]

[hepcat]

Are you sure you're not pulling a Kramer and you've just shown up to an office where you don't actually work for the last few months?