Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:23 pm

Yes. For the last two months it's been "We're just waiting on the containers to arrive..." and sure enough, as of last week, all of them are finally here. Now it's switched to "We need to take care of some things first", which sounds really sketchy - I doubt highly something just came up that couldn't have been resolved over the last 8+ weeks, other than a balance due. I know shipping is all kinds of cocked up right now and QML is operating slower (Final Girl took 6 days to go from starting to ship to actually ship for me, which is not normal), but I can't imagine QML is in a position to be holding on to 10 containers worth of goods unless they're owed money for sorting and shipping.

They're getting absolutely destroyed in the KS comments too. I have been a faithful supporter of all things BLG; Street Masters is still my go-to solo game. I've tried being patient regarding everything pandemic, but I no longer believe the pandemic is fully responsible for all of their delays.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:03 am

OOooofff.... I don't like hearing this. I have way too much in on Lasting Tales and the second wave of Fantasy minis that I certainly do not want to lose. I think the Pledge Manager is still open, but I am still going to take a little bit of a wash if this sinks under.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:48 am

I backed the Girl Genius RPG for $50. What the heck, I love me some Girl Genius. Backerkit went out today, I gave them my info…and they said I owe $2300 for shipping.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:32 am

She really is a genius with that scam!

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:35 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:23 pm They're getting absolutely destroyed in the KS comments too. I have been a faithful supporter of all things BLG; Street Masters is still my go-to solo game. I've tried being patient regarding everything pandemic, but I no longer believe the pandemic is fully responsible for all of their delays.

Apparently the Sadlers have admitted the issue is financial. No details beyond that, but best guess is they can’t pay the taxes or the storage fees (or both). My concern now is that we’re either going to get asked to chip in more money, or BLG is about to announce they’re going into bankruptcy.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:46 pm

Here's what I don't get. I feel like if BLG said back in September that because of paying extra to get the containers, they need to ask people to toss an extra $5 in for shipping, overwhelmingly people would have done it - particularly if it meant getting your stuff before Xmas. I know quite a few KS projects have already gone that route and my unofficial recollection is that it was supported - people were very understanding given everything else going on. But in this situation, they've (BLG) have done the opposite - lots of general statements and half-truths since the summer and then pulling the rug out this week with the latest announcement - they've set up a adversarial relationship with backers.

I also fear they're insolvent and everything in their queue is now in jeopardy. Based on photos I know the expansion for Street Masters was created, along with Buddy Cop card game. Hour of Need has been created and is now in the US, but I fear it's in the same limbo non-payment so no delivery situation. They've said Dire Alliance has been created, but now it's sitting in China. Not sure the status of Lasting Tales. My point with all this is that they have things ready to be delivered that cannot and then stuff still in development (Lasting Tales + Fantasy Series 2). I am beginning to think that the pandemic and just trying to develop too many things disrupted their cash flow and now they have nothing coming in and tons of bills due.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:13 pm

I’ve got about 500 bucks invested in these undelivered games (Hour of Need, the new Street Masters expansion with a bunch of add ons, and Dire Alliance). I really hope they make good on all that. A new post from one of the brothers just showed up in the Hour of Need comments assuring everyone that everything will be delivered. But I’m still worried.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:28 pm

Maybe they’re negotiating for another investor to buy in.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:25 am

Got the update today that Core Space: First Born is on the boat and underway! Should be here not long into the New Year.

Dungeon Universalis (Second Printing) however, seems to have ground to a halt. It is being fulfilled in Europe, but the creator just sort of... stopped with US fulfillment. One of his last comments in the general comment section was that he was frustrated and tired when discussing US shipping. Not a great sign. People are offering to pay more, which I would certainly do (rather than not get my copy), but so far - mums the word.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:42 am

baelthazar wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:25 am Dungeon Universalis (Second Printing) however, seems to have ground to a halt. It is being fulfilled in Europe, but the creator just sort of... stopped with US fulfillment. One of his last comments in the general comment section was that he was frustrated and tired when discussing US shipping. Not a great sign. People are offering to pay more, which I would certainly do (rather than not get my copy), but so far - mums the word.

This same thing happened with The Hunters 2104 AD. It was stuck in Poland for *months* with the creator saying he was trying to secure a shipment to the United States. In late September, he eventually allowed backers to pay extra (on top of what we already paid in shipping) to have them mail them individually to us through (ultimately) the USPS. I did this and it took 7 weeks (I didn't opt for the FedEx shipping, more expensive) but it did arrive. He finally announced in mid November (it had started shipping elsewhere in July of 2021) that shipping to the US was not possible via a traditional shipping container and that all packages would be sent the cheapest way to US and Canada with no additional charge (but they would accept donations). So realistically then, most US backers will have their copies at some point in January. I feel kind bad now as I'm not even sure I want the game anymore.

It won't surprise me to learn the same exact thing is going to happen for DU - I'm a backer as well.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:48 am

I'm also a backer for DU....and I almost immediately regretted it after doing so. Not because of any issues with customer service (at that time) but because I'm a bit burned out on fantasy based dungeon crawlers.

This new issue makes me regret backing it even more though. At the very least, I would have sold it off to recoup my money.

p.s. I've been perusing the comments for DU and I'm not seeing any hostile comments from the creator. If anything, he seems to be trying really hard to get around shipping issues that are hitting everyone trying to get goods into the US. Folks are offering to chip in to help him offset these unexpected costs, but he noted he's trying to find an alternative shipping method that would cost him more, but get them to NA faster than the current one. Sadly, this is just the state of things and I don't believe he's dropped the ball in any significant way. Shipping sucks for everyone right now.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:14 pm

I just realized I only have two outstanding Kickstarters. I'm actually kind of excited about that. I could be kickstarter clean by spring (ok maybe summer, but definitely probably fall)!

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:24 pm

I'm only at four pending right now.

3 of them I have no concerns at all - AuZtralia expansions, which have been giving regular updates, Nemo's War expansions, ditto, and Hoplomachus because.....Chip Theory.

Freedom Five is the only one that gives me any concern, but that's more on *when* I'll get it rather than *if* I'll get it. That one's a big publisher with two famous designers, so I have little doubt it will be fulfilled someday. However when the game should have been in my hands right now and the only update I've received is "hey new board art!" I have little hope of getting it before this time next year.

I came very close to backing DU, and now glad I didn't. The delay doesn't bother me as much as the fact I have shelves full of unfinished dungeon crawlers at the moment.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:35 pm

I've got nine, but I'm pretty sure only two of them were more recent than a year ago. And (ports willing), all nine should be here in the next few months. The latest scheduled arrival I have is 'Quarter 1 2022' (Ancient Chronicles), and I have one that's hitting in February (Critical Role.) My guess? Ancient Chronicles will be the last to arrive, mostly because Ares Games has a terrible record for timeliness.

Although I'm pretty sure that if everything had been delivered on time, I'd only have two still out, one of which (Core Space First Born) wasn't my dime.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:39 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:35 pm My guess? Ancient Chronicles will be the last to arrive, mostly because Ares Games has a terrible record for timeliness.

...and delayed. Brand new update, brand new five week delay, and now assembly is landing afoul of the Chinese New Year.

Funding period
Nov 5 2018 - Nov 21 2018

Estimated delivery Dec 2019

Pfft. I don't doubt that I'll get it, but they've yet to run a project that wasn't horrendously late.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:29 pm

I don’t think the Dungeon Universalis creator is hostile, but one or two of his comments seem very… defeated? I feel for him, because it is a bad situation and who knows what exactly he can do. With the holidays, likely not much.

I have less good will towards Petersen Games. Their games are always years late and Hyperspace has no end in sight. They said August, they said by end of year, now it’s all up in the air.

Same with Lasting Fantasy. Their latest update made no mention of the troubles in their other Kickstarters. I’m very concerned about that one.

Core Space should be here by early next year. It is on its way, IIRC.

The other stuff I am waiting for was always a ways of and I feel pretty confident in them (Everdell, Hoplomachus, Perserverance).

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:06 am

What ticks me off is that Europeans got their copies of DU before Americans. Sure, they're a Spanish developer...BUT WE'RE AMERICAN, DAMN IT!

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:10 pm

I have to hold off one more hour to stop being tempted by the Skyrim board game.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:07 pm

[Narrator]He failed.[/Narrator]

Malificent · Post by **Malificent** » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:48 pm

Woot, my Batman: The Animated Series game arrived. Super excited to get to painting those minis...oh, and play the game I suppose...

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:33 am

The Assault on Doomrock Ultimate Edition preview page is now up on Gamefound. Launches Q1 2022.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:21 pm

Every so often I check the Hour of Need KS comments and BGG for any tidbits of information. On the one hand there was a thread on BGG where the post author wrote some speculation and then to me started talking like it was fact which I thought wasn’t fair. Then one of the developers chimed in but didn’t really fill people with confidence with his remarks. I don’t really pay attention to KS shipping promises since shit happens but I also keep going back to the fact that the games are on US soil and have been for a few weeks I believe. And being secretive about things they need to do before the games are released is just poor form. I think that all these game developers forget that they’re distributors too and all the geek good will that board gamers extend doesn’t mean they ignore reasonable public relations with backers. I’ll speculate that they didn’t account for additional tariff fees so once they hit US soil they needed to pay up. But that’s just speculation on my part. As of now it’s actually better if I get the game in early Jan due to travel but I’m pretty happy not backing anything else from them for the foreseeable future.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:25 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:33 am The Assault on Doomrock Ultimate Edition preview page is now up on Gamefound. Launches Q1 2022.

I'm on that like Daehawk on Windows 2000!

Oh, i see they have a playmat add on.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:29 pm

$iljanus wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:21 pm but I’m pretty happy not backing anything else from them for the foreseeable future.

Yeah, both Hour of Need and the series one fantasy miniatures have been at QML for weeks now, held up by "something else they need to do before shipping starts", aka pay someone money. I have been a BLG fanboy since discovering Street Masters, but this has really, really soured me on supporting them moving forward. I do have quite a few of their games still waiting to be delivered, but I'm having a hard time imagining a situation where I'd be forking over money in the future after what just happened. COVID delays are one thing, but this sounds like a much larger issue and its making me question whether or not they're financially stable.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:30 pm

I truly believe they bit off more than they could chew with the numerous concurrent projects on kickstarter/gamefound/whatever. They had like 4 or 5 going at the same time, I believe.

Malificent · Post by **Malificent** » Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:49 pm

The next Kilforth game (Call of Kilforth) is about to kickstart. I've been interested in this series, but I have a hard time telling whether there is enough difference between them to buy each version. And it's not clear to me how much coop interactivity there is or whether everyone is all off on their own solo path.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:51 pm

I own a couple of their games, and I see there's some neat things going on with them. But I don't see enough to make me own more than one or two entries in their franchise.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:08 pm

Yeah, I agree. I have the original and I did back Shadows, but I never find myself wanting to play it. Instead, I always just bust out the original and use that, separate from the last game (even though you can integrate them). There are some additional mechanics in Shadows and presume even more in what will be this newest one, but I really just like the core game. I think it comes down to theme and Gloom has that "classic" high fantasy feel. Shadows moves into Asian mythology and his new one seems to be leaning into port cities and a nautical theme. I am a huge fan of Gloom and the story it creates, but like hepcat I don't really feel like adding new titles with a different them and slightly adjusted mechanics is for me. I also think Gloom has some of the best art ever produced in a game. From what I understand she only worked on the first game and has since moved on. I don't think the art for Shadows is nearly as amazing and if I were being honest, it was a bit of a bummer.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:37 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:30 pm I truly believe they bit off more than they could chew with the numerous concurrent projects on kickstarter/gamefound/whatever. They had like 4 or 5 going at the same time, I believe.

Speculative but I certainly can see why they would be so cagey about it if they were embarking in a pyramid scheme to pay for current costs using KS pledges for future games.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:46 pm

Ooof....

Yesterday we finally got an update on Dungeon Unversalis and shipping to the US.

US/CANADA

Regarding US/Canada shipments, during the summer we were told that there would not be many problems. But shortly after, in the middle of the logistic phase, we were informed that many ports were collapsed, costs had increased a lot and we were given waiting times in port of more than 3 months, without any guarantee that the situation wouldn't get worse in what regarded to costs or deadlines. During the campaign we were given shipping prices (about 38-40$ for DUN, 47-52$ for Lord of DUN) that we tried to respect. But currently the cost has risen to almost $70. Since I was tired of changing information, uncertainty and increasing prices, I finally decided to pay for air shipping, even though the price was increasing even more (up to $85 per set on average). Remember that I am talking about the cost of shipping. This does not include the costs of management and handling, nor the handling of the packages at origin. Shipping by plane seemed to guarantee the shipment in 3 weeks, which meant the games would be delivered before the end of the year.

I also thought of including some sort of voluntary payment through Paypal, to cover part of the extra costs, considering the suggestions sent by many of you (I really thank you for that, it is comforting to have that support and to see that people are volunteering for this).

However, I was informed this week that the plane with the 36 pallets destined for US/Canada has not yet been loaded. That means that the air shipping overcost would not have done much good and would have only expedited the delivery a bit, but at a very high cost. In short: it will be impossible for us to deliver before the end of the year, and shipments will unfortunately be made as originally planned, by ship, despite the 3 month delivery expectation provided to us.

Then he waxes philosophical about the future of DUN in general. It doesn't look pretty. He had a terrible two years and I don't think his passion project to release DUN has worked out. I suspect that Second Printing will be it, and that this will be one of those games that people talk about but that is rare in the wild. Hopefully, I'll get a copy that is complete and in good condition. Looks like it might be March before that happens, however.

I feel bad for him and certainly don't blame Ludic Dragon. This has been very hard on everyone in the gaming industry, but particularly bad on these small developers.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:48 pm

Yeah, I was going to jump in and state it's nearly 100% identical to the path and messaging I had for Hunters 2114 AD. Months of trying, then finally giving up and deciding to ship it to each person individually via (ultimately) USPS.

Part of me is hoping they offer full refunds to American customers and they can just repurpose the stock for the EU market. I don't blame them at all either.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:52 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:48 pm Part of me is hoping they offer full refunds to American customers and they can just repurpose the stock for the EU market. I don't blame them at all either.

I think that would kill them financially, without having guaranteed European buyers. I sort of wish they would have offered the direct shipping method for those willing to pay. I might be inclined to pony up for that. But I think we are looking at just under 2000 backers in the US, so that would be a pretty herculean task for a small company.

Too bad they can't get a logistics company to help them, like QML. I am not sure what logistics group they are using.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:53 pm

The customs situation in the UK is also a nightmare.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:23 pm

I can wait another 3 or 4 months. I was just worried it was a lost cause.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:13 pm

Just got this update on the Pathfinder for Savage Worlds project, due to ship shortly.

We've been on track for a January 10th arrival date for months now and we've been a bit vague on that to allow for inevitable delays here and there, and the delay has occurred. Our container was sold to higher bidders and we are currently priced out of the market.

That is genuinely screwed up. The shipping companies are riding this wave for all its worth. It's a Shane Hensley/Pinnacle project, so I have no concerns about actually receiving it, but still.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:23 pm

Wow, I didn’t realize they could just sell your booked container right out from under you. That seems illegal, to me.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:16 pm

I don't know Chinese law well enough to say, but the idea of deep pockets essentially denying access to shipping to others genuinely angers me.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:45 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:23 pm Wow, I didn’t realize they could just sell your booked container right out from under you. That seems illegal, to me.

That happened to me back when the pandemic first started and things were just starting to get bad. Now you have to be very lucky or willing to put up a lot of money to secure a container.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:03 am

This looks to be a beautiful production of an excellent game. Someone in my gaming group already owns the previous edition, but I may back this anyway.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:04 pm

Lordnine wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:45 am
hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:23 pm Wow, I didn’t realize they could just sell your booked container right out from under you. That seems illegal, to me.
That happened to me back when the pandemic first started and things were just starting to get bad. Now you have to be very lucky or willing to put up a lot of money to secure a container.

When the communists show you how bad untrammeled capitalism can truly be.