[TV] Wheel of Time series

[Smoove_B]

Am I the only one watching on Thursday nights like a goon?

This episode was a bit slower (I think) in terms of overall action (compared to Ep4) but it feels like some really big plot elements were dropped in.

RE: the addition of the new character

Spoiler:

Loilal didn't look as bad as I was fearing. Sure, he's clearly not 10' tall, but I think he feels/acts like I'd imagine - for the little he was in this episode.

[RunningMn9]

They drop at midnight, right? I normally watch then, but didn’t last night. I’m looking forward to it though.

[Smoove_B]

I was watching at 11pm EST, but the internet is telling me it is available every week starting at 7pm EST (12am GMT).

[Jaymann]

Braid pull spotted! It took a funeral to elicit it, but hey...

[Zaxxon]

Good to know for future eps.

[Archinerd]

Am I the only one watching on Thursday nights like a goon?

This episode was a bit slower (I think) in terms of overall action (compared to Ep4) but it feels like some really big plot elements were dropped in.

RE: the addition of the new character

Spoiler:

Loilal didn't look as bad as I was fearing. Sure, he's clearly not 10' tall, but I think he feels/acts like I'd imagine - for the little he was in this episode.

Spoiler:

Agreed, much less goofy than that first peek we got.

Braid pull spotted! It took a funeral to elicit it, but hey...

I spotted a skirt smoothing too.

[Hrothgar]

Goatbarn

Dragonborn's Goatbarn.

Cool band name.

[RunningMn9]

I’m going on record with something that I think, which I noticed on a subsequent view.

Spoiler:

I am certain that Perrin’s wife was a dark friend.

When Perrin gets done chopping that Trolloc to bits, he takes a moment to rest and calm himself from his frenzy. That was the last Trolloc, but he doesn’t know it.

He hears something behind and spins with the axe, chopping his wife in half. Sadness ensues.

His wife was behind him and had a moment to survey the room, and would have seen that there are no more Trollocs in the room.

So why is she doing what she’s doing?

My thinking is that this is the only way he’s going to be able to move on and marry Faile. I cannot see him doing that after murdering his first wife, unless his first marriage was a lie. I originally thought it was just about showing us his aversion to violence, but they do need a way to get him back on track later on.

That’s my theory.

[RunningMn9]

The one reveal that I wasn't expecting was the identity of the Questioner, mostly because that character isn't a Questioner in the books, nor is he a serial killer. That said - the scenes with him in episode 5 were my favorite. That actor is doing an excellent job of making that character a goddamn nightmare - I liked how they blended a bunch of plot elements from the book into those scenes. I'm getting better at seeing something, drawing the connection to what it's trying to accomplish from the book, and then enjoying it.

I'm looking forward to each episode, which is a positive development. Although I do think that all the stuff with Stepin was both incredibly heavy-handed, but also took up way too much of our precious screen time.

[Jaymann]

I’m going on record with something that I think, which I noticed on a subsequent view.

Spoiler:

I am certain that Perrin’s wife was a dark friend.

When Perrin gets done chopping that Trolloc to bits, he takes a moment to rest and calm himself from his frenzy. That was the last Trolloc, but he doesn’t know it.

He hears something behind and spins with the axe, chopping his wife in half. Sadness ensues.

His wife was behind him and had a moment to survey the room, and would have seen that there are no more Trollocs in the room.

So why is she doing what she’s doing?

Spoiler:

Maybe she just wanted to comfort her husband? You may be overthinking this.

[RunningMn9]

Spoiler:

Maybe she just wanted to comfort her husband? You may be overthinking this.

I’m going to go out in a limb and say that you didn’t re-watch the scene?

[Jaymann]

Spoiler:

Maybe she just wanted to comfort her husband? You may be overthinking this.

I’m going to go out in a limb and say that you didn’t re-watch the scene?

I re-watched on You Tube (in spoiler) and...

Spoiler:

She was rearing back over her head with no trollics present, but if she wanted to kill her husband, wouldn't it be much easier in his sleep or poison him.

[Archinerd]

Spoiler:

Maybe she just wanted to comfort her husband? You may be overthinking this.

I’m going to go out in a limb and say that you didn’t re-watch the scene?

I re-watched on You Tube (in spoiler) and...

Spoiler:

She was rearing back over her head with no trollics present, but if she wanted to kill her husband, wouldn't it be much easier in his sleep or poison him.

Spoiler:

Hmm, you may be right.

[RunningMn9]

Spoiler:

Are you suggesting she was coming up behind him with both her arms raised with a hammer, aimed at her husband’s back/head, and the thought is that she was coming to comfort him? Is that what you are suggesting Jaymann?

[Jaymann]

Spoiler:

Are you suggesting she was coming up behind him with both her arms raised with a hammer, aimed at her husband’s back/head, and the thought is that she was coming to comfort him? Is that what you are suggesting Jaymann?

Spoiler:

Not at all. From that angle (and shaky cam) you could not tell there was no more trollic threat. It's just that that did not seem the most opportune time for homicide. For one thing, Perrin was protecting her from trollics. As was shown with the innkeeper, being on the dark side does not drive one insane.

That being said, it's possible she was under orders to destroy the possible Dragonborn, and she wanted to make it look like the trollics killed him. But unless they specifically spell this out later in the series, color me skeptical.

[dbt1949]

Well, as someone who hasn't read the books and knows nothing but what I've seen in the series so far I just thought is was just kind of a berserker rage caught up with in the heat of battle on both parties.

[YellowKing]

Re: a certain character introduced in the latest episode:

Spoiler:

I really liked Loial's portrayal in terms of his dialogue, mannerisms, etc. I'm still having trouble getting past how a character in the book described as having shaggy black hair wound up looking like they hot glued a Little Orphan Annie wig from Spirit Halloween to the top of his head. The actor really deserved a much better look - that fact that he won me over despite that trainwreck of an appearance speaks volumes about his talent.

[EvilHomer3k]

Can those who have read the books and are discussing future possibilities that only those who have read the books would know note that in their posts? It can be confusing if something is spoilered because it's from the newest episode vs something in the books. I don't really care if you spoilier things from the books so long as the timeline is before the latest episode (though I suppose others might).

I will say that it's hard to keep track of all the characters with only one viewing. I've got a handle on all the main characters but part of that is due to the information on the shows page and Amazon's showing of actors and who they play is helpful as well. Pike is a bit wooden in her performance but I think she's already started to warm up a tiny bit. Overall, though, I'm really enjoying the show.

[Jaymann]

In the books did Moiraine...

Spoiler:

get busy with the Queen of Sheba?

[Pyperkub]

I bounced hard off of the casting decisions of the Two Rivers folks and change to Perrin in the first 15-20 minutes of ep1 when I started it a week ago, and switched over to Hawkeye.

Liked Moiraine and Lan and Elaida (assuming that was her), but Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene all seemed really wrong to me.

Do they get better?

[Smoove_B]

The first episode (imho) was not great and the second episode was a little rough. However, since Ep3, it really feels like they're improving each week. I'd be amazed if you still felt the same about those actors after watching the first 6 episodes in total.

[Pyperkub]

Cool. Thanks. I'll give it another shot.

[dbt1949]

It seems that not having any knowledge of the books is an advantage here.

[ydejin]

I bounced hard off of the casting decisions of the Two Rivers folks and change to Perrin in the first 15-20 minutes of ep1 when I started it a week ago, and switched over to Hawkeye.

Liked Moiraine and Lan and Elaida (assuming that was her), but Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene all seemed really wrong to me.

Do they get better?

I thought Episode 1 took forever to takeoff. The first 40 minutes or so were completely boring. Once it gets past that though, I think the show has been really great.

Disclaimer: I’ve only read the first 3-4 books and read them ~30 years ago when they first came out. I don’t remember more than a rough outline. So if you’re a big book fan, you might have a very different reaction.

[Redfive]

In the books did Moiraine...

Spoiler:

get busy with the Queen of Sheba?

No, not at all.

Edit

Spoiler:

Actually, I looked into it some more and apparently there is some reference to it in the prequel, so it’s not being made up, just extended. I haven’t read the prequel .

[Pyperkub]

I bounced hard off of the casting decisions of the Two Rivers folks and change to Perrin in the first 15-20 minutes of ep1 when I started it a week ago, and switched over to Hawkeye.

Liked Moiraine and Lan and Elaida (assuming that was her), but Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene all seemed really wrong to me.

Do they get better?

I thought Episode 1 took forever to takeoff. The first 40 minutes or so were completely boring. Once it gets past that though, I think the show has been really great.

Disclaimer: I’ve only read the first 3-4 books and read them ~30 years ago when they first came out. I don’t remember more than a rough outline. So if you’re a big book fan, you might have a very different reaction.

Hoppped back in and restarted after Mrs. Kub and I finished up s2 of Ted Lasso.

Now that I'm a bit prepared for the casting shock, I'm settling in and enjoying it a lot more.

[Jaymann]

Perrin is no Andre the Giant (like on the cover of book 1), but he's coming around.

[dbt1949]

He looks like a big doll.

[ydejin]

An interview with Daniel Henney (Lan) at the start and end of the video, with a round table discussion with a bunch of YouTubers in the middle and a short clip with Rosamund Pike before Henney’s last discussion.

Definitely thought the interview sections with Henney were very good. The YouTubers were fine, but I can imagine a lot of people will just scan through that. At the end, Henney does talk about accidentally sending Pike to the hospital during a stunt, so that was an interesting discussion.

[RunningMn9]

Well, I watched Ep.7 but I don’t see anyone talking about it. I would say that I disliked it more than I disliked the pilot, and leave it at that.

[Zaxxon]

It was less than great.

[RunningMn9]

I really need for the set and costume designers to understand how dirt works, and what kind of torches these people would have access to.

These are episode spoilers, not book spoilers.

Spoiler:

My long list of complaints:
1) All that effort towards diversification, such that the Asian-only city felt really weird.

2) Moraine makes it clear that the Eye of the World is a days journey from the island in the Ways. But then a Trolloc shows up (didn’t bother me, they needed to show the Trollocs are using the Ways), someone channels and here comes Machin Shin. Cool. But their response was “F this noise let’s take this Way Gate to Fal Dara!”. Which coincidentally is a day’s walk to the Eye of the World. Why wasn’t the original plan to just got to Fal Dara to get the hell out of the Ways ASAP?

3) Every scene with Lan and Nynaeve.

4) Lord Agelmar being a bit of a dick. Why is everyone constantly acting like assholes?

5) Why does Moraine keep harping on everyone else dying? She has literally no evidence for that, given that the Dragon Reborn has never hiked out to the Eye of the World to fight the Dark One (with or without companions). I though it was just a way to build tension - except then they leave everyone else behind?! Including her goddamn Warder?!?

6) Min was ok, got to see some auras, but then after Rand is like “J/K LOL I’m the Dragon!”, she’s like “My first vision was totally seeing your birth and I knew it was you the whole time!”.

7) The visual of the blight might be the worst thing I’ve ever seen in television history.

8) Why is Lan randomly having soup with people?

9) Why show me Padan Fain, but without giving me more than a little taste of him. I guess we have to wait for the next season.

10) Secret love triangle!

Hard dislike on this episode. Let these goddamn people get their clothes dirty!

[Jaymann]

What's not to like? The episode had:

Winter is Coming
Mt. Doom
Mines of Moria
More getting busy, and most importantly...

Two braid pulls spotted!

[EvilHomer3k]

I really need for the set and costume designers to understand how dirt works, and what kind of torches these people would have access to.

These are episode spoilers, not book spoilers.

Spoiler:

My long list of complaints:
1) All that effort towards diversification, such that the Asian-only city felt really weird.

2) Moraine makes it clear that the Eye of the World is a days journey from the island in the Ways. But then a Trolloc shows up (didn’t bother me, they needed to show the Trollocs are using the Ways), someone channels and here comes Machin Shin. Cool. But their response was “F this noise let’s take this Way Gate to Fal Dara!”. Which coincidentally is a day’s walk to the Eye of the World. Why wasn’t the original plan to just got to Fal Dara to get the hell out of the Ways ASAP?

3) Every scene with Lan and Nynaeve.

4) Lord Agelmar being a bit of a dick. Why is everyone constantly acting like assholes?

5) Why does Moraine keep harping on everyone else dying? She has literally no evidence for that, given that the Dragon Reborn has never hiked out to the Eye of the World to fight the Dark One (with or without companions). I though it was just a way to build tension - except then they leave everyone else behind?! Including her goddamn Warder?!?

6) Min was ok, got to see some auras, but then after Rand is like “J/K LOL I’m the Dragon!”, she’s like “My first vision was totally seeing your birth and I knew it was you the whole time!”.

7) The visual of the blight might be the worst thing I’ve ever seen in television history.

8) Why is Lan randomly having soup with people?

9) Why show me Padan Fain, but without giving me more than a little taste of him. I guess we have to wait for the next season.

10) Secret love triangle!

Hard dislike on this episode. Let these goddamn people get their clothes dirty!

1) It didn't seem odd to me but I suppose with all the effort it could be seen as odd. My guess is that on the outskirts of the world there is less Div.
2) I look at that as the plan was going to be an easier day than what they ended up doing.
3)It did seem a bit forced.
4) I think it was a bad job of conveying that it was just a misunderstanding.
5) It's more dramatic that way. But it does get old as there is no evidence of that.
6) I don't think she actually said the last part. Just that she was the birth and it was special.
7) I guess I didn't really pay much attention but thinking back it wasn't good.
8) I thought that scene was well done. The only part that bothered me was the power of teleportation.
9) No idea who that is outside of the show so it didn't bother me at all.
10) Agreed.

[Jaymann]

Re: 1 gripe:

Spoiler:

The only reason I can think Moiraine ditched Lan is she really believes anyone but the Dragon would die at the Eye of the World. Does that mean Moiraine plans on dying?

And for book readers:

Spoiler:

I don't think Rand was revealed as the Dragon Reborn anywhere near this soon. Was the seer in the books or she she just wearing plot advancement armor?

[YellowKing]

Re: the diversification, I've always applauded the diverse casting but they've seemingly made it a point to be as random (or maybe, as unrandom) as possible with it. To me it feels less like genuine diversity, and more like a stock photo company trying to make sure they get a person of every race in the same picture. Diverse leads? Fantastic, let's roll with it. Every village, tavern, inn room, Aes Sedai Ajah, and city street consisting of exactly X Asians, X African-Americans, X Indians? I mean come on. You can take even the best of intentions so far they start getting absurd.

I thought Episode 7 was *slightly* better than the utter snooze-fest that was Episode 6, but it was still chock-full of problems and dragged in spots. If they're going to waste this much time focusing on every nuance of every character's relationship to every other character, they're never going to get through this.

As for the focus on relationships, it would be much more interesting if any of the couples had an ounce of chemistry between them, but they don't.

My initial optimism is waning, fast.

[RunningMn9]

Re: 1 gripe:

Spoiler:

The only reason I can think Moiraine ditched Lan is she really believes anyone but the Dragon would die at the Eye of the World. Does that mean Moiraine plans on dying?

And for book readers:

Spoiler:

I don't think Rand was revealed as the Dragon Reborn anywhere near this soon. Was the seer in the books or she she just wearing plot advancement armor?

Spoiler:

In the books, Rand is revealed in the next episode (at the Eye of the World). But we pretty much already knew when reading.

Yes, Min is *kind of* important in the books - but is introduced much earlier (as soon as they leave the Two Rivers, in Baerlon).

[ydejin]

I really liked Episode 7. That fight at the start was one of the best melee fights I can recall seeing in recent memory. The rest of the episode was slow, but I thought it did a good job character building. I don’t really recall the characters very well from reading the first 3-5 books some 30 years ago, but the TV show does have me invested in the characters, and getting a sense that I know who they are and what they are like.

As far as the diversity goes, I’m starting to think of it a bit like a Shakespeare production which has a mixed ethnicity cast. With this approach that Shakespeare companies sometimes seem to take, you just hire a bunch of good actors and you don’t worry that the ethnic mix doesn’t really reflect what Elizabethan England (or Venice or wherever the play was set) would have looked like.

I think the actors and actresses are all doing a great job. That’s the most important thing. And if viewers of all backgrounds feel included in this world, that’s great. The alternative is something like The Lord of the Rings, which I generally adore, but it really presents the world as White European’s are good (even when they aren’t humans) and anyone not White European is bad (e.g. Orcs, Harads, everyone else not white). Sure it’s ethnically consistent (and probably reflects JRR Tolkien’s view of the world, which is pretty much what you’d expect from someone born in 1892). Unfortunately a lot of fantasy fiction does seem to follow the trope that one’s ethnicity defines whether someone is good or not — for this taken to it’s natural extreme see The Belgariad another series I enjoyed, but which mostly follows the idea that if someone is from this race, that 100% determines their morality or lack thereof.

[ydejin]

Starting fight scene took 5 days to shoot. Also discussion of the set for “The Ways”:

[RunningMn9]

Once again, the better scenes in the show are the ones that have nothing at all to do with the book - in this case Tigraine’s fight on Dragonmount. Sure, it doesn’t make much sense to free climb a mountain, in winter, while pregnant.

Or to have a bunch of soldiers follow her up. But cools sword/spear fight (while in labor), so I’ll allow it.