Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

[Zaxxon]

We started watching the final season of Goliath and there's a Lucid. Very sharp looking car.

Agreed. And one of the few that looks to be comparable-ish to Tesla in efficiency. 118 kWh, I believe, and they're saying 520 miles of range. I hope they do well.

[malchior]

So it looks like the EV credit is indeed in the BBB reconciliation bill. The rumored unions provisions are in the bill. The base credit is $4K. There are the following add-ons: $3500 credit for plug-in battery capacity, $500 if the battery pack is made domestically, and $4500 for domestic production at a factory which has a collective bargaining contract in place.

They are going to phase in the new credit on December 31st, 2021. At the end of 2022 it'll change and impose some dollar limits on the cost of vehicles covered under the credit. For example, SUVs the cap would be $69,000 as drafted.

There is a lot of talk already about people talking about whether they should hold up their orders to get the credit in 2022. Good. Bump me up in line.

[Zaxxon]

There's been some Aptera talk here, so...

https://electrek.co/2021/10/28/an-up-cl ... s-anthony/

[Formix]

There's been some Aptera talk here, so...

https://electrek.co/2021/10/28/an-up-cl ... s-anthony/

Well...very disappointed the timeline is sliding, but glad another outsider is looking at them semi-favorably. Thank goodness they're not another Elio. So instead of having mine near the end of Q1 as I hoped, I'm now setting my expectation for the end of Q3.

[Zaxxon]

One quarter of Volvos now have a plug. I'm breaking the thread title a bit, as most of these are PHEVs and not BEVs. But I've been impressed with Volvo sticking to its relatively ambitious plan, so I'm putting it here.

In 2016 when we got our PHEV Volvo, dealers were selling single-digit PHEVs per month (most of them low single-digits) and Volvo had zero BEVs. Now, five years later, 3% are BEVs and 22% PHEVs. 4 years from now they expect > 50% to be PHEVs or better, and 9 years from now, all BEVs.

More of this, please.

[Madmarcus]

I'm rambling a little after reading the derail in the Global Warming thread.

I love the idea of an EV but I hate the state of the EV market right now. I view cars are tools. I've basically driven a Honda Civic my entire life and been perfectly happy about it. I'm going to need a new car in 8 months with a use case of driving one or two people plus groceries (stand in for the size of things to be carried) for daily driving of less than 50 miles most days and 100 miles maximum.

But I'm also really good at over analyzing things (and even worse when you add my wife) so I now look at all the different new brands, models that are in limited supply or coming soon, and so forth and it feels like the market for a new car is much messier than it was when I last bought one (in 2004!).

[Zaxxon]

The good news is you have a ton of options.

[Madmarcus]

The good news is you have a ton of options.

Well yes but also...

But I'm also really good at over analyzing things (and even worse when you add my wife)

I will say that loved seeing you link the Aptera as they are one of two oddball cars (the other is the Canoo truck version) that I have been looking at but it is unclear that I could get either one in the summer of 2022. Plus I'm not a fan of buying the first production run of any car.

[Isgrimnur]

Aspark Owl

[Zaxxon]

I don't get the Aptera credit. Though I'd also suggest checking out Arcimoto. Very different, but also a minimalist EV.

[Madmarcus]

I've seen the Arcimoto. I've never been a motorcycle person so the open sides and lack of storage are turn offs but I'd test one if they had them in my state.

[ImLawBoy]

One quarter of Volvos now have a plug. I'm breaking the thread title a bit, as most of these are PHEVs and not BEVs. But I've been impressed with Volvo sticking to its relatively ambitious plan, so I'm putting it here.

In 2016 when we got our PHEV Volvo, dealers were selling single-digit PHEVs per month (most of them low single-digits) and Volvo had zero BEVs. Now, five years later, 3% are BEVs and 22% PHEVs. 4 years from now they expect > 50% to be PHEVs or better, and 9 years from now, all BEVs.

More of this, please.

Not to continue derailing your thread too much, but I pulled the trigger on a Volvo S60 Recharge (PHEV) on Saturday. The ol' Audi A6 was getting on in years (17 years!) and the mileage was terrible. I'm driving more and longer distances now with where we moved to and where the twins go to school. The great news is that taking them to school today barely burned any gas. On surface roads I stayed electric the whole way. The expressway to school only had small bit of the engine going (too much traffic to get it up to speed). The expressway home had some speeds with the engine running, but overall this will save a ton of gas. I plugged it back in when I got home and it should be ready to go to pick them up. The electric range isn't all that great, but most of my drives won't exceed it.

[Zaxxon]

Sweet!

[Daehawk]

If you get a chance look up Vintage Volts. Its a shop I think in the UK. He converts about anything to electric....from a Beetle to a Ferrari 308. Theres a few he refuses to do like a old Aston Martin Db.

[LordMortis]

CNBC is reporting that Ford and Rivian have dropped plans to codevelop a an EV line. That hurts. That was, in part, what drove my increasing interest in Rivan... and hope for Ford to actually pursue a real EV after being largely dormant.

[LordMortis]

I don't know who the Council of Economic Advisors (they are some white house people) are but the person they chose to go on CNBC was a poor choice. The host asked if the Tax Credit on BEVs which essentially goes to the wealthy, how are they going to contribute to the taxes that pay for the roads and if this essentially makes the tax credit a regressive tax and she totally talked about the dire need to save the environment and that the credit pays for itself. She pretty much left the hosts head scratching.

The snippet of the interview caught my attention because this has long been a concern of mine. (not the tax credit part) but the taxes lost, or as CNBC put it, how the taxation for road (and kitty stealing as we have in Michigan) will become regressive as we transition toward electric.

[Zarathud]

There will be an EV plate tax to substitute for lost revenue.

[Zaxxon]

There will be an EV plate tax to substitute for lost revenue.

There already is, in many states.

[stessier]

and hope for Ford to actually pursue a real EV after being largely dormant.

I don't understand this part of the quote. What about the Mach E and Lightning?

[Zaxxon]

and hope for Ford to actually pursue a real EV after being largely dormant.

I don't understand this part of the quote. What about the Mach E and Lightning?

They count, once they are a large percentage of Ford's sales in their respective classes.

[malchior]

I don't know who the Council of Economic Advisors (they are some white house people) are but the person they chose to go on CNBC was a poor choice. The host asked if the Tax Credit on BEVs which essentially goes to the wealthy, how are they going to contribute to the taxes that pay for the roads and if this essentially makes the tax credit a regressive tax and she totally talked about the dire need to save the environment and that the credit pays for itself. She pretty much left the hosts head scratching.

The snippet of the interview caught my attention because this has long been a concern of mine. (not the tax credit part) but the taxes lost, or as CNBC put it, how the taxation for road (and kitty stealing as we have in Michigan) will become regressive as we transition toward electric.

Getting P&R but this feels like a defense for special interests. It interesting how this would come up as an area of concern when it is a relatively tiny factor (which will become more significant over time) when compared to much bigger issues about how the wealthy don't contribute.

[hitbyambulance]

i want this one

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... l-lighting

[malchior]

Dodge to phase out Charger and Challenger and replace them in their lineup with "eMuscle" cars. The big surprise is the time frame - 2024. I traded in my Charger for my Model Y and I look forward to what Dodge will bring to the table.

[Zaxxon]

Dodge to phase out Charger and Challenger and replace them in their lineup with "eMuscle" cars. The big surprise is the time frame - 2024. I traded in my Charger for my Model Y and I look forward to what Dodge will bring to the table.

I saw that this am and had a little internal chuckle. My former boss is a huge Challenger-head (term I just made up) and was not at all convinced that EVs are the future. I'd like to see his reaction to this news. I'm also interested to see what Dodge does with a full-EV Challenger.

[The Meal]

Roughly one dozen more trips to the gas station left in my primary driver.

[LordMortis]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/13/rivian- ... -year.html

MotorTrend called the R1T, which is the first mass-produced electric truck in the U.S., “the most remarkable pickup truck we’ve ever driven,” in a release announcing the award.

We'll see how they scale. I heard report that they are trying to scale up to meet orders but don't want to sacrifice anything on the scale up so while they are increasing reservations, they are careful with their ramp up. The latest in many wise moves by them. Wish I could afford one and that it would easily fit in my driveway/garage.

[stessier]

National EV Charging Summit open to the public

Since I think it is just a press release, I copied it all.

A coalition of business, labor, and environmental advocacy leaders will host the US’ first-ever National EV Charging Summit on January 20, 2022. Members of the public are invited to attend, and it’s free.

The event will bring together representatives from the Biden administration, vehicle and utility industries, unions, and outside experts to showcase a new level of collaboration supporting the federal commitment to build out a US-wide electric vehicle charging infrastructure.

The virtual event, hosted by the National EV Charging Initiative, will feature conversations about the development and operation of a US-wide EV charging network. It follows President Joe Biden’s signing of infrastructure legislation that includes $7.5 billion to install charging stations along highways and in communities nationwide.

The summit will also spotlight government, industry, and regional collaboration, and corporate commitments that are helping to drive the development of that charging network.

Panels will discuss:

The numbers and types of EV chargers that will be needed to support scaled EV adoption in the US
The different needs of different sizes of EV vehicles
How a national EV infrastructure sector can build inclusive economic growth, increase stable and well-paid jobs, and address the mobility needs of everyone, especially historically underserved communities
Financing challenges and opportunities to mobilize the private investment needed to scale and deploy EV charging across the US
Panelists include:

Danielle Eckert, director of government affairs, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers
Britta Gross, managing director, mobility, RMI
Maria Bocanegra, commissioner and chair, National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners (NARUC) EV Task Force
Cathy Zoi, CEO, EVgo
Jane Hunter, CEO, Tritium
John Bozella, CEO, Alliance for Automotive Innovation
Pedro Pizarro, CEO, Southern California Edison
Andrea Marpillero-Colomina, clean transportation consultant, Green Latinos
Jigar Shah, US Department of Energy loan programs office director
Generate Capital chair Richard Kauffman
Linse Capital founder and managing director Michael Linse

The summit will take place on January 20 from noon to 3:45 p.m. EST.

[LordMortis]

Was talking to one our BEV owners at work and things I would have never thought about came up. (We're up to better than 10% of the office now. I think I'm in the wrong pay scale) She says she can't wash her car at a traditional car wash. Does that sound right? She said the guides on the car wash tracks pose too much risk to the under carriage, aka batteries.

[Isgrimnur]

[malchior]

Tesla does have that mode but even with that mode available I limited myself to only touchless car washes even with my previous ICE car. Regular car washes often lead to swirls or scratches in the paint in my experience. We don't really have touchless in my area so I have for some time driven to a self-wash place. I have no idea what the heck the battery concern is talking about.

[Zaxxon]

Ford's marketing folks are in the meme game today...

(thread)

[LordMortis]

For the first time ever, I'm interested to see how Musk responds and there's not an unreasonable chance, I'll smile and nod at his response.

[malchior]

The Verge

It’s time for car companies to shut up about electric vehicles and just ship them

The auto industry is going electric. We know because they’ve been telling us, over and over, in earnings calls, virtual events, podcast interviews, and in many television commercials. (Hi, Malcolm Gladwell!) Gone will be the dirty internal combustion engines of yesteryear, replaced by zero-tailpipe emission electric vehicles. The future is here, and it probably has a light bar.

The spotlight is on the auto industry like never before. President Joe Biden, who is spearheading a plan to spend billions of dollars on EV charging infrastructure and new incentives for car buyers, has test driven not one but two electric pickup trucks this year. Car companies are under enormous pressure to help usher in this electric future. And they know it.

“The transition to EVs is both happening far later than many people had hoped for and far faster than most legacy [automakers] expected two or three years ago,” said Sam Abuelsamid, principal analyst for electric mobility at Guidehouse Insights. He argues that car companies have been “downplaying” the prospect of mass adoption of electric vehicles for years, sitting back while Tesla soaked up market share. Now, EV sales are way up, Tesla is one of the most valuable companies in history, and the entire auto industry finally sees there’s profit in plug-in cars.

As expected, the transition has been stilted and plagued with problems. There’ve been battery fires, recalls, fraud allegations, a global chip shortage, and numerous missed deadlines. The number of new electric vehicles that went on sale this year is still laughably small compared to all the gas-guzzling, planet-warming, glacier-melting trucks and SUVs that still dominate the roads.

The rollout of new EVs remains fairly thin. There’s the Ford Mustang Mach-E, Volkswagen ID 4 … and that’s about it. The Porsche Taycan and Polestar 2 helped fill out the premium segment, while shorter-range EVs, like the BMW i3, Ford Focus Electric, and the VW e-Golf, got the ax. Audi released a $140,000 electric sports car that’s fantastic to drive but won’t move the sales needle that much.

Other rollouts have been a mixed bag. Rivian, which went public in one of the biggest IPOs of all time, saw its stock tumble on the news that production of its first electric truck and SUV would be slow going. The 2021 Chevy Bolt and Bolt EUV were both recalled after a number of worrisome battery fires, while the Mercedes-Benz EQS was recalled for an infotainment snafu. General Motors managed to start delivering the Hummer EV trucks to its first customers, just under the wire. The Tesla Cybertruck was delayed until 2022.

“It felt like we were setting ourselves up for a big EV year,” said Jessica Caldwell, director of insights at Edmunds. “Then the Mach-E came out, and that was about it.”

...

“There are a lot of new challenges for automakers in doing all of this stuff,” Abuelsamid said. “They know how to assemble vehicles, but much of the rest is new and convincing consumers they know what they are doing won’t be easy.”

The slow rollout of new EVs gives the false impression that we have time when, in reality, the clock is ticking. There are roughly 280 million cars and trucks on the road in the US today, only 3 percent of which are electric. Americans typically buy 16–17 million cars every year, which means it will take roughly 16 years of EV-only sales to completely replace all of the gas cars currently on the road.

Meanwhile, climate change experts insist that we have to limit global warming to no more than 1.5 degrees Celsius above preindustrial levels in order to avoid some of the worst-case scenarios that climate change could create. We’re on track to surpass that in a few decades.

[LordMortis]

This confirms my bias so it must be true.

[Zaxxon]

See also 2019. Remember when the 2017 Chevy Bolt was going to change everything?

[stessier]

See also 2019. Remember when the 2017 Chevy Bolt was going to change everything?

What do you mean? The success of that car lead to the other big manufacturers jumping in.

[Zaxxon]

See also 2019. Remember when the 2017 Chevy Bolt was going to change everything?

What do you mean? The success of that car lead to the other big manufacturers jumping in.

Totally.

[Jaymann]

Here is an excellent summary of the issues surrounding charging stations and compatibility. Apologies if this has been BAMed, I did not search the whole thread.

[Daehawk]

Tesla recalls 475,000 vehicles due to camera and front trunk issues

[Hrothgar]

I realize there are some trollish aspects to this column, but the fundamental question is valid.

Imagine Virginia’s icy traffic catastrophe — but with only electric vehicles

Clearly more charging infrastructure could help. Is he right that once an EV is completely drained there's no recourse but towing?