How is your career going?

[Default]

Somewhat over a year, and I'm done. I get a couple of months off per knee, and then whatever I can stuff into the bank until then.

[Octavious]

Unless I win the lottery or my daughter takes over the world Im a lonnnngg ways off. I'm literally at the halfway point and that's so depressing.

[stessier]

As tax season rolls around, I've been looking at the bigger financial picture and running numbers. Looks like retiring at 60 might be doable - maybe pick up a low stress job for some extra spending money, but probably not necessary. Might be sooner if the kids get a bunch of scholarships (and being women in STEM, that's not out of the question). 60 would mean 11 more years - crazy to think of it as that close.

[Isgrimnur]

There are better workplaces out there.

[Octavious]

There's a solid chance my daughter gets a full scholarship somewhere, so I'm kind of in a position to not want to rock the boat too much for the next two years. That pans out I'll go sell surfboards on a deserted island or something.

Right now she has a weighted gpa of 4.4 and murdered the PSAT without even studying. I'm not 100 sure she is really my kid.

[coopasonic]

As tax season rolls around, I've been looking at the bigger financial picture and running numbers. Looks like retiring at 60 might be doable - maybe pick up a low stress job for some extra spending money, but probably not necessary. Might be sooner if the kids get a bunch of scholarships (and being women in STEM, that's not out of the question). 60 would mean 11 more years - crazy to think of it as that close.

Same place for me likely, right down to the 11 years. In theory, I could double my retirement account in that time if the market can give me a few good years. 11 years of maxed out contributions will hardly change anything. If I can get promoted it will help, though that would likely prompt my wife to stop working so it might be a wash. I haven't actually run the numbers because it is too far to really think about it and there isn't much more I can do to prepare. I know my wife has significant assets, but I actually don't know the numbers and am not legally supposed to know. I guess eventually we'll have to talk about that...

[Madmarcus]

I know my wife has significant assets, but I actually don't know the numbers and am not legally supposed to know. I guess eventually we'll have to talk about that...

You said that earlier but it still doesn't compute to me. Are you married to a mafia kingpin's daughter? Or Sam Walton's granddaughter? Keeping your money separated in marriage doesn't make sense to me but I can see the reasoning if you married after you both had careers or if it was a second time around for one or both of you. But the legal part feels crazy?

[stessier]

I know my wife has significant assets, but I actually don't know the numbers and am not legally supposed to know. I guess eventually we'll have to talk about that...

You said that earlier but it still doesn't compute to me. Are you married to a mafia kingpin's daughter? Or Sam Walton's granddaughter? Keeping your money separated in marriage doesn't make sense to me but I can see the reasoning if you married after you both had careers or if it was a second time around for one or both of you. But the legal part feels crazy?

+1

Do tell!

Also - have you maxed out all your other forms of savings? HSA and Roth IRA (assuming that is still open to you)?

[coopasonic]

I know my wife has significant assets, but I actually don't know the numbers and am not legally supposed to know. I guess eventually we'll have to talk about that...

You said that earlier but it still doesn't compute to me. Are you married to a mafia kingpin's daughter? Or Sam Walton's granddaughter? Keeping your money separated in marriage doesn't make sense to me but I can see the reasoning if you married after you both had careers or if it was a second time around for one or both of you. But the legal part feels crazy?

Pre-nup. My wife's father died when she was young and left her a decent inheritance. It has been sitting in investment accounts for ~35 years. My wife would probably be fine with sharing details at this stage, as we've been married for 22 years and raised 2 kids together but it doesn't really matter yet.

[hitbyambulance]

QA please test this system with this user for the basic functionality in this documentation attached.They reply that they need to know exactly every setting that they will be using and what to test. Sooooo me as not the QA dude is going to have to do what they can freaking do and login as the user and see what the f is turned on You can just go into the settings and there's freaking checkboxes of what is turned on for that user... Test that... FFFFFFFF.. I'm so going to punch someone. Good thing most of them are nowhere near my office.

Oh and at some point it was decided that the PMs would do the test plans for QA. That's like 100% not how it's supposed to work.

as a QA lead this is funny to read...

[coopasonic]

Also - have you maxed out all your other forms of savings? HSA and Roth IRA (assuming that is still open to you)?

No HSA as I have no predictable recurring healthcare needs (Is there way to use that as a retirement savings vehicle or is there another kind of HSA that means something else). No Roth due to income and when we didn't make too much we didn't have any other money to spare.

[Octavious]

QA please test this system with this user for the basic functionality in this documentation attached.They reply that they need to know exactly every setting that they will be using and what to test. Sooooo me as not the QA dude is going to have to do what they can freaking do and login as the user and see what the f is turned on You can just go into the settings and there's freaking checkboxes of what is turned on for that user... Test that... FFFFFFFF.. I'm so going to punch someone. Good thing most of them are nowhere near my office.

Oh and at some point it was decided that the PMs would do the test plans for QA. That's like 100% not how it's supposed to work.

as a QA lead this is funny to read...

Our QA had like a 75% turnover the last year because other companies right next door pay a lot more. So it's gone downhill super quick...

So for a project I have to:
Get the requirements
Write all the documentation and maintain the plan (Which I mean duh of course I should)
Review it with QA and give them every single tiny detail. Like literally telling them how to write the script.
Write the freaking test plan for QA (This 100% should not be me)
They write the test scripts and I have to review them (Which again is fine)

And then Development.. Oh god development
They provide zero insight/feedback on how to actual create anything
I generally have to tell them exactly to the T how to create something (Go here and select this checkbox etc..)
If I tell them something dumb they never provide feedback to help avoid it
I think I could create a plan to create a bridge that drops you off a cliff and they wouldn't make a peep

This isn't how it works in a normal company. I have no idea how anyone that hasn't been here for 200 years could PM here. It's nonsense.

Oh and then the integration team. Oh my...
They have like a 75% turnover rate as well
They have keep on making major mistakes like oh I don't know turning off a server for 7 hours for no reason.
They then insist that the PM group should review the releases after the deployment to verify they didn't screw up their jobs. Which screw you that's not happening. On a release weekend I'm releasing to 30+ countries. There's not enough coke in the world for me to go through that in a weekend.

I give up.....

[Kraken]

I'm 60 years old.
Quite a few of my friends and family have started retiring, some early.
Almost all of them say it is not what they expected and that they are considering part time work.
Some for the extra money. Some because they found out they have too much time on their hands.
I could definitely retire tomorrow, but one of the reasons I have no plans to retire early is because I like my job. I'm paid well.

2.5x salary plus paid health insurance? I could put up with alot of shit for that

I have one recently retired friend who's very happily traveling to visit his children, hanging out with friends, doing projects around the house, and generally keeping himself busy and amused. He can't say enough good things about retirement.

Me, I plan to start drawing SS as soon as I turn 66.5 (about 20 months from now), but I don't intend to stop working. I don't have any friends or family, or any hobbies. I hate traveling. I don't play golf. I wouldn't know how to fill my days if I didn't have work to do. I'll get more selective about the clients and assignments that I take, but I won't fold my business. In fact, Wife's planning to work for Kraken Enterprises after she retires in two years, although she probably won't draw SS until she's 70.

Of course, a health emergency could upend those plans, but for now we're both still vital.

[RMC]

QA please test this system with this user for the basic functionality in this documentation attached.They reply that they need to know exactly every setting that they will be using and what to test. Sooooo me as not the QA dude is going to have to do what they can freaking do and login as the user and see what the f is turned on You can just go into the settings and there's freaking checkboxes of what is turned on for that user... Test that... FFFFFFFF.. I'm so going to punch someone. Good thing most of them are nowhere near my office.

Oh and at some point it was decided that the PMs would do the test plans for QA. That's like 100% not how it's supposed to work.

as a QA lead this is funny to read...

Our QA had like a 75% turnover the last year because other companies right next door pay a lot more. So it's gone downhill super quick...

So for a project I have to:
Get the requirements
Write all the documentation and maintain the plan (Which I mean duh of course I should)
Review it with QA and give them every single tiny detail. Like literally telling them how to write the script.
Write the freaking test plan for QA (This 100% should not be me)
They write the test scripts and I have to review them (Which again is fine)

And then Development.. Oh god development
They provide zero insight/feedback on how to actual create anything
I generally have to tell them exactly to the T how to create something (Go here and select this checkbox etc..)
If I tell them something dumb they never provide feedback to help avoid it
I think I could create a plan to create a bridge that drops you off a cliff and they wouldn't make a peep

This isn't how it works in a normal company. I have no idea how anyone that hasn't been here for 200 years could PM here. It's nonsense.

Oh and then the integration team. Oh my...
They have like a 75% turnover rate as well
They have keep on making major mistakes like oh I don't know turning off a server for 7 hours for no reason.
They then insist that the PM group should review the releases after the deployment to verify they didn't screw up their jobs. Which screw you that's not happening. On a release weekend I'm releasing to 30+ countries. There's not enough coke in the world for me to go through that in a weekend.

I give up.....

I got out of being a PM and got into management for all those reasons. When I started to have to tell people what to do, and they basically said, I don't have to do it because you are not my boss.. I was like MBA here I come, because I am so going to be your boss and not a PM any more.

Been in management for almost 15 years, and it sucks in different ways, but at least when I tell someone to do it, they eitehr do it, or I have consequences for them.

[stessier]

Also - have you maxed out all your other forms of savings? HSA and Roth IRA (assuming that is still open to you)?

No HSA as I have no predictable recurring healthcare needs (Is there way to use that as a retirement savings vehicle or is there another kind of HSA that means something else). No Roth due to income and when we didn't make too much we didn't have any other money to spare.

There is no income limit for contributing to an HSA and contributions are tax deductible. Inside the HSA, the funds can be invested just like a 401k. When you eventually have qualified medical expenses (and you will, barring going tragically quick), you can withdraw tax free as well. It's triple tax advantaged!

Normal caveat - I am not Zarathud and this is not tax advice.

[Octavious]

QA please test this system with this user for the basic functionality in this documentation attached.They reply that they need to know exactly every setting that they will be using and what to test. Sooooo me as not the QA dude is going to have to do what they can freaking do and login as the user and see what the f is turned on You can just go into the settings and there's freaking checkboxes of what is turned on for that user... Test that... FFFFFFFF.. I'm so going to punch someone. Good thing most of them are nowhere near my office.

Oh and at some point it was decided that the PMs would do the test plans for QA. That's like 100% not how it's supposed to work.

as a QA lead this is funny to read...

Our QA had like a 75% turnover the last year because other companies right next door pay a lot more. So it's gone downhill super quick...

So for a project I have to:
Get the requirements
Write all the documentation and maintain the plan (Which I mean duh of course I should)
Review it with QA and give them every single tiny detail. Like literally telling them how to write the script.
Write the freaking test plan for QA (This 100% should not be me)
They write the test scripts and I have to review them (Which again is fine)

And then Development.. Oh god development
They provide zero insight/feedback on how to actual create anything
I generally have to tell them exactly to the T how to create something (Go here and select this checkbox etc..)
If I tell them something dumb they never provide feedback to help avoid it
I think I could create a plan to create a bridge that drops you off a cliff and they wouldn't make a peep

This isn't how it works in a normal company. I have no idea how anyone that hasn't been here for 200 years could PM here. It's nonsense.

Oh and then the integration team. Oh my...
They have like a 75% turnover rate as well
They have keep on making major mistakes like oh I don't know turning off a server for 7 hours for no reason.
They then insist that the PM group should review the releases after the deployment to verify they didn't screw up their jobs. Which screw you that's not happening. On a release weekend I'm releasing to 30+ countries. There's not enough coke in the world for me to go through that in a weekend.

I give up.....

I got out of being a PM and got into management for all those reasons. When I started to have to tell people what to do, and they basically said, I don't have to do it because you are not my boss.. I was like MBA here I come, because I am so going to be your boss and not a PM any more.

Been in management for almost 15 years, and it sucks in different ways, but at least when I tell someone to do it, they eitehr do it, or I have consequences for them.

Honesty it was fine until we hit such a resource crunch that there's nobody left that knows anything. Otherwise being a PM is a job I quite like even though it was nothing that I had ever thought I would do. I really just need to get off my ass and do the PMP. If I have that it will be super easy to find something else.

[coopasonic]

Also - have you maxed out all your other forms of savings? HSA and Roth IRA (assuming that is still open to you)?

No HSA as I have no predictable recurring healthcare needs (Is there way to use that as a retirement savings vehicle or is there another kind of HSA that means something else). No Roth due to income and when we didn't make too much we didn't have any other money to spare.

There is no income limit for contributing to an HSA and contributions are tax deductible. Inside the HSA, the funds can be invested just like a 401k. When you eventually have qualified medical expenses (and you will, barring going tragically quick), you can withdraw tax free as well. It's triple tax advantaged!

Normal caveat - I am not Zarathud and this is not tax advice.

Now I know why I didn't know. We don't have health insurance that would qualify us for an HSA.

[Isgrimnur]

Honesty it was fine until we hit such a resource crunch that there's nobody left that knows anything. Otherwise being a PM is a job I quite like even though it was nothing that I had ever thought I would do. I really just need to get off my ass and do the PMP. If I have that it will be super easy to find something else.

Sounds like you got two years to get it done.

[Octavious]

Ya in a perfect world I would get that done this year. Find a remote job and move to Virginia. Like my brother Malchior I'm not exactly in love with NJ.

At least there the property taxes make some sense. And if my daughter is done with school I don't care about the schools there.

[Zarathud]

Also - have you maxed out all your other forms of savings? HSA and Roth IRA (assuming that is still open to you)?

No HSA as I have no predictable recurring healthcare needs (Is there way to use that as a retirement savings vehicle or is there another kind of HSA that means something else). No Roth due to income and when we didn't make too much we didn't have any other money to spare.

There is no income limit for contributing to an HSA and contributions are tax deductible. Inside the HSA, the funds can be invested just like a 401k. When you eventually have qualified medical expenses (and you will, barring going tragically quick), you can withdraw tax free as well. It's triple tax advantaged!

Normal caveat - I am not Zarathud and this is not tax advice.

You need to be on a high deductible insurance plan and the tax deductible contributions are limited. I know because my insurance costs are crazy with diabetic kids.

[Isgrimnur]

Ya in a perfect world I would get that done this year. Find a remote job and move to Virginia. Like my brother Malchior I'm not exactly in love with NJ.

At least there the property taxes make some sense. And if my daughter is done with school I don't care about the schools there.

Stop hoping for a perfect world and start formulating a plan.

[Octavious]

LOL ya I really want to get the PMP thing done this year. That would be such a big thing as pretty much any PM job is looking for that and will certainly help me get some interviews for sure. And more money. I mean I don't know it doesn't sound worth it.

[LordMortis]

I'm broken.

Me too! I would retire tomorrow if I could. I completely appreciate your position and wouldn't be looking to adjust my timeline if I'd already mentally committed to the exit date. It's not about money for me anymore. I'm basically working at this point for Cadillac healthcare benefits. I'm doing everything I can to help others move forward, but for me? I'm done.

I realistically should still work 3-5 more years but I'm broken. I don't know how to bounce back. I don't know if I can bounce back. I have no idea how I'll survive. The market turns sour and inflation heats up then both my 401K and my money to bridge getting there won't be enough but I'm broken. We'll see how long it takes to start exercising, eating better, and taking care of my house before I start to feel like I can work again and if I get there it will be at something mindless where the job is left at work and they could fire me and plug in a different drone in a day sort of work. I'll burn that bridge if I get to it. I'm more of the opinion that matter how much better I take of myself, I'm going to continue to slide at an accelerated rate and I lived a lifetime to do nothing but mostly help make sure some parts got on your car and they were safe enough.

[stessier]

Also - have you maxed out all your other forms of savings? HSA and Roth IRA (assuming that is still open to you)?

No HSA as I have no predictable recurring healthcare needs (Is there way to use that as a retirement savings vehicle or is there another kind of HSA that means something else). No Roth due to income and when we didn't make too much we didn't have any other money to spare.

There is no income limit for contributing to an HSA and contributions are tax deductible. Inside the HSA, the funds can be invested just like a 401k. When you eventually have qualified medical expenses (and you will, barring going tragically quick), you can withdraw tax free as well. It's triple tax advantaged!

Normal caveat - I am not Zarathud and this is not tax advice.

You need to be on a high deductible insurance plan and the tax deductible contributions are limited. I know because my insurance costs are crazy with diabetic kids.

Oh yeah, I've been on a high deductible plan for more than ten years and forgot there were other options.

[Madmarcus]

Pre-nup. My wife's father died when she was young and left her a decent inheritance. It has been sitting in investment accounts for ~35 years. My wife would probably be fine with sharing details at this stage, as we've been married for 22 years and raised 2 kids together but it doesn't really matter yet.

Good to hear. I didn't want to add anything just in case my memory wasn't good but the fact that you seemed to be in a pretty stable marriage was one of the reasons it sounded weird.

[Isgrimnur]

I was given an actual office on Friday as part of the personnel shuffling that occurred near year's end. They're still stringing me along with regard to the actual manager title promotion.

Starting on 10/5, I will officially get my first minion since leaving the world of call centers at the end of 2007. The pay/promotion issue is progressing with tidbits that are pleasing to the ear being dropped prior to official paperwork being generated.

Well, she was an excellent employee for six and a half years. Moving up the food chain to the AA credit union.

And seeing as I'm a VP now, I can't say I've been treated poorly.

[Zarathud]

So they’re moving you to a dedicated server room, Isg?

[Jeff V]

Had another interview last week. They were looking for an IT guy with experience with business relationship management -- I only have about 15 years experience with the exact thing they are looking for, but I assume again, they want someone twice the experience and half my age. Was supposed to hear back last Friday. Crickets...

Two weeks ago I sent an application to a company that expressed an urgent need for a pharmacy delivery driver. I saw the advertisement on this job earlier, but my wife got a recommendation from the dude who delivers drugs at her job, and he said they were desperate for drivers and he was making an absurd amount of money doing so. I figured at half what he said would still be pretty good, and work doesn't get much easier than that. I applied...and crickets. At this point, I'm not sure what I could do make an income of any sort...

Are your skills translatable to consulting work?

Not so much these days. 10 years at my deeply siloed last job shielded me from emerging technology, such as cloud-based infrastructure. I had some exposure, just not enough to claim any sort of competence in.

So i gave it a week, and crickets from the interview for a job I was most certainly qualified for. Wife's chicken farm is doing well enough not only to pay for the house being built in Ormoc, but also to soon move to a larger facility to meet an increasing demand. Hopefully it will soon be able to pay the condo in Manila as well. Then I can possibly relocate there and die without stress.

[Isgrimnur]

So they’re moving you to a dedicated server room, Isg?

I've been cloud-based for two years.

[Kasey Chang]

Joined the Sidewalk Food Tour as a guest, didn't eat much, but it's surely something I can do, walk around Chinatown and talk about it while stopping by a few restaurants and whatnot. Too bad it's only 3-4 tours a weekend, but it may double up in the summer. Steady income would be good. That leaves me a lot of time to do other things.

[Carpet_pissr]

Successfully worked in SaaS sales for 15 years, burned out after startup was bought by a large public company, and was let go 3 years after buyout. I spiraled hard since around that same time as my "position was eliminated", I had serious marital and health issues. Trifecta of loveliness.

The next 4 years I did menial jobs that required no experience or education. This from making mid $200's as a successful sales rep. Literally from 14th floor corner office white collar guy, to demo'ing and remodeling houses (aka construction) @$17/hour.

What would my resume even show for this "blackout" period? I'm finally ready to "get back out there" but I suspect it may be too late (at least in sales, and certainly at the level I was, but not looking for that). Even a complete pivot into something unrelated will ask me questions like: where do you currently work? What have you been doing for...4 years?! etc. Questions I guess I would rather not answer.

Wife suggests "stay at home Dad" but I think that might tank. I DID do some consulting after I was let go, for about a year, but heart was not in it at the time, as it was almost exactly what I had been doing before, but without the pressure of quotas (or the money).

Any suggestions appreciated!

[LordMortis]

Even a complete pivot into something unrelated will ask me questions like: where do you currently work? What have you been doing for...4 years?! etc. Questions I guess I would rather not answer.

I don't think that's that difficult to answer. The hard part would be getting someone to actually look at your resume after the absence. Explaining the absence should be easy, so long as you find someone you are willing to work for. If burnout is an issue for them, it's likely because they want to put you in a position that would make you burn out again.

[Carpet_pissr]

Even a complete pivot into something unrelated will ask me questions like: where do you currently work? What have you been doing for...4 years?! etc. Questions I guess I would rather not answer.

I don't think that's that difficult to answer. The hard part would be getting someone to actually look at your resume after the absence. Explaining the absence should be easy, so long as you find someone you are willing to work for. If burnout is an issue for them, it's likely because they want to put you in a position that would make you burn out again.

In that case maybe I should just leave my consulting work "to date" since technically I am still self employed. Now, I haven't actively SOUGHT (and gotten) consulting work since 2019, but if the lack of something relevant in that space will keep eyes from even looking at me, I have no problem using that white lie. The problem I guess is that if I put that on there AND then get an interview, they will ask about what kind of work I did. Since I would never lie, the answer would likely turn them off:
"after I was laid off from X company, and after the no compete year was over, I did consulting work for a startup in the same space for 6 months, then....stopped."

[Smoove_B]

In that case maybe I should just leave my consulting work "to date" since technically I am still self employed. Now, I haven't actively SOUGHT (and gotten) consulting work since 2019, but if the lack of something relevant in that space will keep eyes from even looking at me, I have no problem using that white lie. The problem I guess is that if I put that on there AND then get an interview, they will ask about what kind of work I did. Since I would never lie, the answer would likely turn them off:
"after I was laid off from X company, and after the no compete year was over, I did consulting work for a startup in the same space for 6 months, then....stopped."

Everything is wonky now. I had started consultant work as a process improvement advisor with a local public health agency back in the Fall of 2019. We had been meeting to scope out the big issues that were raised by state auditors and trying to come with a plan. After a holiday break in December, we came back in January and met a few more times before it all went sideways in February and March of 2020.

And that's where it's been sitting for almost 2 years now - untouched. On paper it looks like I was a consultant for 6 months...and then it just stopped.

I waited 15+ years for that opportunity and it was *yoinked* by a pandemic.

Anyway, I wouldn't get too deep in the weeds. As I said, everything has been weird. Just roll with it.

[Carpet_pissr]

In that case maybe I should just leave my consulting work "to date" since technically I am still self employed. Now, I haven't actively SOUGHT (and gotten) consulting work since 2019, but if the lack of something relevant in that space will keep eyes from even looking at me, I have no problem using that white lie. The problem I guess is that if I put that on there AND then get an interview, they will ask about what kind of work I did. Since I would never lie, the answer would likely turn them off:
"after I was laid off from X company, and after the no compete year was over, I did consulting work for a startup in the same space for 6 months, then....stopped."

Everything is wonky now. I had started consultant work as a process improvement advisor with a local public health agency back in the Fall of 2019. We had been meeting to scope out the big issues that were raised by state auditors and trying to come with a plan. After a holiday break in December, we came back in January and met a few more times before it all went sideways in February and March of 2020.

And that's where it's been sitting for almost 2 years now - untouched. On paper it looks like I was a consultant for 6 months...and then it just stopped.

I waited 15+ years for that opportunity and it was *yoinked* by a pandemic.

Anyway, I wouldn't get too deep in the weeds. As I said, everything has been weird. Just roll with it.

Interesting. So you're saying fill the space ACTUALLY occupied by gig work, census, construction and USPS (6 months) with "Consulting"?

[Smoove_B]

Interesting. So you're saying fill the space ACTUALLY occupied by gig work, census, construction and USPS (6 months) with "Consulting"?

I mean, if it fits. I was (and technically still am) a consultant with this local health agency, though I haven't actually done anything for 2 years. Because of that, my resume has a hard-stop in February for 2020 for this activity. Some might say to just ditch it completely as it was only 6 months, but I disagree in this situation - it ended because of the pandemic. If you were hired in a temporary, provisional or seasonal capacity, I'd be clear about that.

I think my point is that everyone in every facet of life has a * next to their resume bullet items right now. I don't care if you're a student, laborer or CEO - what we've all been asked to do since March of 2020 isn't even slightly comparable to the before times; we are all (still) in uncharted waters.Inconsistencies, gaps, breaks, etc... in resumes likely don't matter nearly as much as anyone thinks (IMHO) - everyone is trying to survive.

[Default]

Nobody is going to hammer you over leaving the PO, once you tell them what your schedule was like.

[Isgrimnur]

13.25% bonus to be paid next Friday.

[coopasonic]

eeek, I don't want to consider bonus in percentage terms. Over the past few years we have been moving comp from bonus to salary. It makes the bonus look a bit weak. 7% for me.

[Zarathud]

It’s been almost 25 years practicing law before I’ve had to “no comment” reporters. Next week is going to get interesting….