The rhetoric out of the French Economic Minister is not subtle:
Bruno Le Maire, France’s economy minister, said Europe was going to wage “total economic and financial war against Russia” with “formidable” sanctions. “We are going to cause the Russian economy to collapse,” Mr. Le Maire told Franceinfo radio on Tuesday morning.
When was the last time we saw a package of sanctions referred to as “total economic and financial war”?
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
Strong pushback from Belarus AND France? And apparently a little from his own foreign ministry?
Great news!
I still suspect he’ll eventually take Ukraine, but at hopefully a much, much higher cost than he anticipated (though I do feel for any Russian conscripts who were duped or forced into this - if some of those videos I saw of captured Russian soldiers are real, that is heartbreaking).
That goes back to my probing question upthread ‘challenging’ that Putin miscalculated (on Day 2).
Obviously he knew there would be consequences to this action - what’s missing from the equation is how much he was willing to bear/accept in exchange for Ukraine.
Actually how much IS he willing to bear is a much more important question. I suspect his calculus has changed assuming the resistance from all over is stronger than expected. I don’t think we can know what he was expecting vs what he’s got right now.
em2nought wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:33 pm
The mainstream media is going to start WW3 because they're bored without Trump in office.
No, Putin is starting WW 3 because people like you don’t care what he does, hate democracy and hope to live under someone like him…if not him.
It's called Facism. Putin and Trump have more than proven what they stand for and what they want. Repugnant people like Boebert who call for the "Liberation" of Canada just amplify it. As for Em2nuoght, he's just a troll with nothing serious to say, don't feed him.
I forgot to call it "a box of pure malevolent evil, a purveyor of
insidious insanity, an eldritch manifestation that would make Bill
Gates let out a low whistle of admiration," but it's all those, too.
-- David Gerard, Re: [Mediawiki-l] Wikitext grammar, 2010.08.06
Vladimir Putin’s unprovoked invasion has not simply elicited a resistance among Ukrainians that is inspiring the world. It has also triggered a set of geopolitical shifts that are astonishing in their scale and rapidity. The world is not the same today as it was last week, and while the course of Putin’s invasion and Russian policy remain uncertain, there will be no full reversion to the global status quo ante. The post–Cold War era that began in 1991 may have just ended.
Just days ago, Russia was widely seen in Washington, D.C., and major European capitals as a sullen and revisionist power, led by a president discontented with his country’s place in the world, but who generally chose pragmatism and opportunism over blundering savagery. This sentiment has transformed overnight, and Moscow is now viewed by Western leaders as a clear and present danger. Putin’s war of aggression in Ukraine is the obvious, but not the only, evidence. Russia threatened “military and political consequences” against Finland and Sweden should they join NATO, and put nuclear forces on alert. Just days ago, European leaders visited Moscow to discuss the international deal that sought to end his last territorial assault in Ukraine, in 2014. No more—governments now have no trust in or tolerance for the Putin regime.
...
Neutrality is on the wane, too. Finland and Sweden are firmly aligned with the West and against Moscow, and the invasion may tip them into NATO membership. Policy makers in both countries are openly discussing the possibility—hence Moscow’s preemptive threat—and for the first time a majority of Finns favor joining the alliance. Even if Helsinki and Stockholm do not sign up as allies, they have already begun collaborating with NATO more closely than ever before. Both, for example, are sending arms to Ukraine.
Even neutral Switzerland—Switzerland!—will freeze Russian assets as a result of Moscow’s aggression. “Russia’s attack is an attack on freedom, an attack on democracy, an attack on the civil population, and an attack on the institutions of a free country,” the country’s president, Ignazio Cassis, said over the weekend. “This cannot be accepted.” Large-scale protests on the streets of Bern, expressing popular revulsion at the invasion, helped focus minds in a country that has essentially been militarily neutral since 1516.
...
But some geopolitical outlines have already come into focus, and they are drastically different from the old ones. Lenin reportedly once said, “There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen.” This is one of those weeks.
em2nought wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:33 pm
The mainstream media is going to start WW3 because they're bored without Trump in office.
No, Putin is starting WW 3 because people like you don’t care what he does, hate democracy and hope to live under someone like him…if not him.
It's called Facism. Putin and Trump have more than proven what they stand for and what they want. Repugnant people like Boebert who call for the "Liberation" of Canada just amplify it. As for Em2nuoght, he's just a troll with nothing serious to say, don't feed him.
Just think of all the damage this unhinged loon has done to our country for…60 years. It really saddens me.
I've decided to be a prophet like Pat. I'm going to predict every morning around 7am that today is the last day our world will exist. Eventually, I'll either get it right or I'll die and it won't matter. There, I've just obtained the same level of credibility as Pat.
NOW BOW BEFORE ME, SHEEP!
...oh, and the world is going to end today around 2pm.
Belarus's citizens don't surprise me. It wasn't too long ago that they actually elected another president. But Lukashenko was successful in his attempt to overturn the election (Trump must be so jealous).
My 15 yr old niece made it over the border into Poland successfully on Friday and is now in the US. Her story is echoed by thousands who are trying to leave the Ukraine. After rocket strikes struck the nearby airport he decided to send her to join her sister who is college in the US. He drove her, another girl and the other girl’s father who was handicapped to the border. They had to leave their car 2 km from the border because traffic made further travel by car impossible. At a checkpoint where buses were supposed to take pedestrians into Poland they were told that there were stopping for the evening. The handicapped father was also not allowed to cross. My brother in law who is an American citizen but wasn’t leaving due to his wife and her family staying then looked for any “friendly” cars at the checkpoint who were driving into Poland. They found someone who was willing to drive my niece and her friends across and he left them with the driver. He then started walking back to his car which was 2 km away with the handicapped father in the dark and a few hours later got video of his daughter crossing into Poland where she was to meet friends who lived outside Warsaw. They had to hitchhike a little however to get to their pickup point. After that she was able to catch a flight to the US on Sunday. We wished he had sent her over before the war started but she was very fortunate because the situation at the border has grown considerably worse.
In the meantime my brother in law was part of a caravan trying to evacuate families from a church in the outskirts of Kyiv, traveling by day due to curfew and avoiding areas of fighting. There was a Russian jet which overflew them at low altitude but it was probably more concerned by the Ukrainian jet that was pursuing it. He was approaching from the west so there were some open routes. He finally made it back to his town with “a van full of women” (his words).
"Who's going to tell him that the job he's currently seeking might just be one of those Black jobs?"
-Michelle Obama 2024 Democratic Convention
Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
It's all preliminary but I'm seeing reports via private CTI (cyber threat intelligence) that social media bots have dramatically decreased. The CTI showed the drop since the sanctions were being phased in and especially after Twitter was blocked in Russia. It's actually pretty remarkable. I'm not working directly in that area but I'm sure that CTI analysts are probably identifying the *absence* of "voices" by looking at past Twitter trend data to figure out what was what. Even with this drop we're still expecting a surge in other cybercrime related to this war especially as a workaround for sanctions.
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:05 am
Can we keep that up through the election?
Seriously.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:05 am
Can we keep that up through the election?
Hopefully. We had an inkling that the Russians have been conducting a ceaseless military attack on our society. We are now getting a glimpse at how pervasive it is. And there is no way Facebook didn't know this.
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:05 am
Can we keep that up through the election?
Hopefully. We had an inkling that the Russians have been conducting a ceaseless military attack on our society. We are now getting a glimpse at how pervasive it is. And there is no way Facebook didn't know this.
Seems like this should also yield some helpful information / intelligence around the sources and patterns of Russian disinformation, since we now effectively have a "before" and "after" period to analyze.
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:05 am
Can we keep that up through the election?
Hopefully. We had an inkling that the Russians have been conducting a ceaseless military attack on our society. We are now getting a glimpse at how pervasive it is. And there is no way Facebook didn't know this.
Seems like this should also yield some helpful information / intelligence around the sources and patterns of Russian disinformation, since we now effectively have a "before" and "after" period to analyze.
Exactly my thought... it's not unlike detecting exoplanets through the transit method, where you can only notice the missing starlight, not the planet... but you know what causes the missing starlight - so bang,
I don't have access but the social media mobsters at Facebook have to have noticed this. We're seeing this through scraping. They have access to the raw data. Some have suspected for some time that Twitter was doing a much, much better job at this and that is to some extent being proved out. Tiktok/Insta/etc. really weren't bad either. It was mostly FB and they knew it. Too bad they escaped the noose a few months ago. They need to be regulated.
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:05 am
Can we keep that up through the election?
Hopefully. We had an inkling that the Russians have been conducting a ceaseless military attack on our society. We are now getting a glimpse at how pervasive it is. And there is no way Facebook didn't know this.
Seems like this should also yield some helpful information / intelligence around the sources and patterns of Russian disinformation, since we now effectively have a "before" and "after" period to analyze.
"Dark have been my dreams of late," he said, "but I feel as one new-awakened.
I would now that you had come before, Gandalf.
For I fear that already you have come too late, only to see the last days of my house.
Not long now shall stand the high hall which Brego son of Eorl built."
I was talking to one of my best friends yesterday evening (who grew up in Moscow until he was about 10) and found out that he has distant relatives in Kharkiv. His family is in contact with them, and unsurprisingly the situation is not great.
Also, a couple Russian parents from our kids' school community sent out an e-mail to the community denouncing the war and Putin. I have to think that they were worried about social blowback on them for being Russian.
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:42 am
I don't have access but the social media mobsters at Facebook have to have noticed this. We're seeing this through scraping. They have access to the raw data. Some have suspected for some time that Twitter was doing a much, much better job at this and that is to some extent being proved out. Tiktok/Insta/etc. really weren't bad either. It was mostly FB and they knew it. Too bad they escaped the noose a few months ago. They need to be regulated.
El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:47 amI have to think that they were worried about social blowback on them for being Russian.
Maybe they saw things like this happening. We (as a society) need to be careful not to assign blame to the people of Russia who are very much victims of this corrupt autocracy as well.
Fiona Hill, one of America’s most clear-eyed Russia experts, someone who has studied Putin for decades, worked in both Republican and Democratic administrations and has a reputation for truth-telling, earned when she testified during impeachment hearings for her former boss, President Donald Trump.
Article is about the historical context of both Russia and Putin and why this is a Big Deal.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:55 amWe (as a society) need to be careful not to assign blame to the people of Russia who are very much victims of this corrupt autocracy as well.
Completely agree, but it should be noted that not all Russians are victims - there are many, MANY actual supporters of Putin that love his...reign(?), and share the same dreams he has of a re-instated USSR (or Russia at the least) as major world player, at any cost.
Just like most Americans frown upon our self-own on Jan 6, there are still quite a few people who think it should have gone farther, or at the least support the movement behind it. 30% or so of the population? No idea.
"We (as ROW) need to be careful not to assign blame to the people of America who are very much victims of this corrupt Trumpism as well."
Last edited by Carpet_pissr on Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This is inline with observations that UA elements captured fully functional/fueled Russian equipment. It also lines up with the stories that the soldiers involved didn't know they were invading Ukraine. The military guys are now out loud wondering if the Russians didn't commit all their forces because many refused to move forward.
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:55 amWe (as a society) need to be careful not to assign blame to the people of Russia who are very much victims of this corrupt autocracy as well.
Completely agree, but it should be noted that not all Russians are victims - there are many, MANY actual supporters of Putin that love his...reign(?), and share the same dreams he has of a re-instated USSR (or Russia at the least) as major world player, at any cost.
Just like most Americans frown upon our self-own on Jan 6, there are still quite a few people who think it should have gone farther, or at the least support the movement behind it. 30% or so of the population? No idea.
"We (as ROW) need to be careful not to assign blame to the people of America who are very much victims of this corrupt Trumpism as well."
I get what you are saying but it doesn't 100% line up. Russia doesn't have fair and free elections. We don't know Putin's actual support. Our system - dumb as it is - elected Trump in a fair and free election. If/When the GOP pulls off overturning/stealing an election then we'll be in the same boat as Russia to some extent.
Last edited by malchior on Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Unagi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:58 am
The windows shouldn’t have been touched , but Russia House maybe should chill on flying the flag.
If I were them I would probably take it down to be safe, but they shouldn't have to remove the flag. They're not part of the war or the Russian government, and they're still Russians and shouldn't have to hide that.
Unagi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:58 am
The windows shouldn’t have been touched , but Russia House maybe should chill on flying the flag.
If I were them I would probably take it down to be safe, but they shouldn't have to remove the flag. They're not part of the war or the Russian government, and they're still Russians and shouldn't have to hide that.
The irony is the owner isn't even Russian. He is a guy named McGovern. It was just branding.
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:55 amWe (as a society) need to be careful not to assign blame to the people of Russia who are very much victims of this corrupt autocracy as well.
Completely agree, but it should be noted that not all Russians are victims - there are many, MANY actual supporters of Putin that love his...reign(?), and share the same dreams he has of a re-instated USSR (or Russia at the least) as major world player, at any cost.
Just like most Americans frown upon our self-own on Jan 6, there are still quite a few people who think it should have gone farther, or at the least support the movement behind it. 30% or so of the population? No idea.
"We (as ROW) need to be careful not to assign blame to the people of America who are very much victims of this corrupt Trumpism as well."
I don't think this lines up tbh. Russia doesn't have fair and free elections. We don't know his actual support. Our system - dumb as it is - elected Trump in a fair and free election. If/When the GOP pulls off overturning/stealing an election then we'll be in the same boat as Russia to some extent.
Fair enough, but he does have supporters. Hell, I've known a couple, and even worked with one for a while. She couldn't stop talking about Putin and how awesome he was.
I guess we can assume it's the economic upper class that supports him.
$iljanus wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:57 am
My 15 yr old niece made it over the border into Poland successfully on Friday and is now in the US. Her story is echoed by thousands who are trying to leave the Ukraine. After rocket strikes struck the nearby airport he decided to send her to join her sister who is college in the US. He drove her, another girl and the other girl’s father who was handicapped to the border. They had to leave their car 2 km from the border because traffic made further travel by car impossible. At a checkpoint where buses were supposed to take pedestrians into Poland they were told that there were stopping for the evening. The handicapped father was also not allowed to cross. My brother in law who is an American citizen but wasn’t leaving due to his wife and her family staying then looked for any “friendly” cars at the checkpoint who were driving into Poland. They found someone who was willing to drive my niece and her friends across and he left them with the driver. He then started walking back to his car which was 2 km away with the handicapped father in the dark and a few hours later got video of his daughter crossing into Poland where she was to meet friends who lived outside Warsaw. They had to hitchhike a little however to get to their pickup point. After that she was able to catch a flight to the US on Sunday. We wished he had sent her over before the war started but she was very fortunate because the situation at the border has grown considerably worse.
I'm so glad your niece has made it out and into the EU.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)
Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:23 pmFair enough, but he does have supporters. Hell, I've known a couple, and even worked with one for a while. She couldn't stop talking about Putin and how awesome he was.
Oh for sure. I'm beginning to wonder though if he is more popular here (with the Trumpists) than he is at home.
I think there's also lots of disinformation/propaganda that affects the views of Russians and why he's seen (hopefully, was seen at this point) positively by many Russians.
Unagi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:58 am
The windows shouldn’t have been touched , but Russia House maybe should chill on flying the flag.
If I were them I would probably take it down to be safe, but they shouldn't have to remove the flag. They're not part of the war or the Russian government, and they're still Russians and shouldn't have to hide that.
Yeah, I agree. I’m just giving advice for them to avoid the inevitability of being targeted by people looking for local ways to punish supporters of Russia. And flags are literally symbols of support.
