Ukraine

[LawBeefaroni]

Seems like ole Roman is calling in some favours.

An MP has claimed that the Russian oligarch and Chelsea football club owner, Roman Abramovich, is hastily selling UK properties to avoid potential financial sanctions.

Chris Bryant, the Labour MP and head of the parliamentary standards committee, said the government was moving too slowly on imposing sanctions on those with alleged links to Vladimir Putin following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

He told the Commons on Tuesday: “I think he [Abramovich] is terrified of being sanctioned, which is why he’s already going to sell his home tomorrow, and sell another flat as well. My anxiety is that we’re taking too long about these things.”

[Daehawk]

I dont get how Russia has come full circle back to being ruled with an iron fist without freedoms. Since the late 80s and early 90s I thought they had moved past so much bs . They cant even protest this war without being arrested or having their life marked forever. Looks like they need a new revolution and finish what they started decades ago.

[LawBeefaroni]

[LawBeefaroni]

I dont get how Russia has come full circle back to being ruled with an iron fist without freedoms. Since the late 80s and early 90s I thought they had moved past so much bs . They cant even protest this war without being arrested or having their life marked forever. Looks like they need a new revolution and finish what they started decades ago.

Those anti-protest laws aren't new.

[Daehawk]

Ukraine invasion: Russians feel the pain of international sanctions

"There are no dollars, no roubles - nothing! Well, there are roubles but I am not interested in them," said Anton (name changed), who is in his late 20s and was queuing at an ATM in Moscow.

"I don't know what to do next. I am afraid we are turning into North Korea or Iran right now."

Buying foreign currency costs Russians about 50% more than it did a week ago - if they can get hold of it at all.

At the start of 2022 one dollar traded for about 75 roubles and a euro for 80. But the war has helped set new records - at one point on Monday a dollar cost 113 roubles and a euro, 127.

[Isgrimnur]

As a Cold War kid, I'm having a very difficult time with this.

One of my students (an 18 or 19 year old kid) said that it was weird to think about nuclear war as an actual possibility.

I couldn't help it. I literally giggled.

I was an Air Force Brat that lived down the road from the Fighter Weapons School.

[raydude]

As a Cold War kid, I'm having a very difficult time with this.

One of my students (an 18 or 19 year old kid) said that it was weird to think about nuclear war as an actual possibility.

I couldn't help it. I literally giggled.

My kids (17, 16, 13) totally don't get it. They look at me incredulously when I explain that when I was in elementary school, nuclear armageddon was a very real concern. Up until just recently, they thought that was quaint.

It's heartening to know that before now, the threat of nuclear war has diminished to the point of being quaint. It's depressing to know this generation has to face it.

[Kurth]

I dont get how Russia has come full circle back to being ruled with an iron fist without freedoms. Since the late 80s and early 90s I thought they had moved past so much bs . They cant even protest this war without being arrested or having their life marked forever. Looks like they need a new revolution and finish what they started decades ago.

Ever since Putin took over from Yeltsin, he's been gradually returning Russia to autocratic rule. The first signs were the crackdowns on the press. Investigative journalists trying to report on corruption or anything deemed unflattering to the Putin regime and its oligarch cronies were routinely killed on the streets. From there, it was just an unceasing slide into repression.

[msteelers]

There's an episode of Dan Carlin's Hardcore History from 2017 that keeps coming up as more and more relevant. It's called The Destroyer of Worlds, and it's a long (6-hour!) history of the atomic and nuclear age. I've listened to it twice already over the years, and I'm working through it for a third time now.

One of the things that I think he nails is that we all forget what is at risk here. He likens nuclear weapons and a third world war as the Sword of Damocles hanging over all of our heads. If you were alive when the atomic bombs dropped, and saw the devastation of WWII, you are all too aware of just how sharp that sword is. But as you get further and further away from those events, it's easy to forget that the sword is even there let alone how destructive it could be.

The other imagery he uses, that is far more chilling, is the idea that we are now in an ongoing experiment. Now that humans have the capability of destroying ourselves, can we evolve to a point where we won't do it? It's an experiment that can never end, unless we prove that we can't.

[Daehawk]

I want to move off planet to a colony wheres there are no weapons or money. Just machines that can break stuff down into component atoms and molecules and make anything you want or need. Want s steak dinner? Just toss in a tree log. Need a air conditioner? Pour in some water and some sand.

[Holman]

The other imagery he uses, that is far more chilling, is the idea that we are now in an ongoing experiment. Now that humans have the capability of destroying ourselves, can we evolve to a point where we won't do it? It's an experiment that can never end, unless we prove that we can't.

It's not for nothing that the architect of the nuclear bomb was also the originator of the Fermi Paradox.

[Alefroth]

It'll probably be harder to get a ticket to places not closed to Russian flights.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/03/airline ... seats.html

[msteelers]

The other imagery he uses, that is far more chilling, is the idea that we are now in an ongoing experiment. Now that humans have the capability of destroying ourselves, can we evolve to a point where we won't do it? It's an experiment that can never end, unless we prove that we can't.

It's not for nothing that the architect of the nuclear bomb was also the originator of the Fermi Paradox.

I didn’t know that!

[Alefroth]

It'll probably be harder to get a ticket to places not closed to Russian flights.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/03/airline ... seats.html

[Kraken]

There seems to be this sense from some that we're "doing nothing" to stop Putin.

We're doing a LOT to stop him. Historic sanctions, cutting off business ties, removing banks from SWIFT - those are a far cry from "doing nothing."

Militarily, yes, he may take Ukraine. But at what cost? A tanked economy, a constant drain on his military, being shunned from the world stage, strengthening NATO alliances. Doing nothing would be letting him waltz in without consequences, which is 180 degrees removed from what we're doing.

The intent of those were never to stop him from taking Ukraine. They're designed to make the cost outweigh the benefit.

Agreed. We are fighting back with political and economic power on a scale that's never been done before, and Biden deserves considerable credit for leading the alliance of democracies that trumputin tried to gut.

The long-term danger is from driving Russia and China closer together, but that would be even more true if we fell back on good old military might.

I'm not sure what else we have to wield against Putin, and that has to be clear to him, too.

The biggest economic gun of all is sanctioning Russian oil. That's the diplomatic nuclear option. It would destroy Russia's economy while doing dramatic collateral damage to the world economy, including ours. War must never inconvenience Americans!

[Jaymann]

The other imagery he uses, that is far more chilling, is the idea that we are now in an ongoing experiment. Now that humans have the capability of destroying ourselves, can we evolve to a point where we won't do it? It's an experiment that can never end, unless we prove that we can't.

It's not for nothing that the architect of the nuclear bomb was also the originator of the Fermi Paradox.

I didn’t know that!

Nothing like postulating and creating a Great Filter.

[Daehawk]

All that sucks because it depends upon the species as a whole. Me alone would not destroy myself or others.

[xwraith]

Please stop having firefights close to nuclear reactors.

Thanks!

-- The world

[Smoove_B]

Please stop having firefights close to nuclear reactors.

Thanks!

-- The world

Not good.

These bastards are shelling the largest nuke plant in Europe. I just recorded this off a livestream two minutes ago.

[malchior]

Lots of folks melting down on twitter because the Russians are attempting to take over a nuclear power plant. Complete with rocket fire. People are losing their minds thinking it'll explode like an atomic bomb. That's not happening. Could there be an incident? For sure but the reactions help explain to me why people are so scared of them. They have no idea how they work.

[xwraith]

It's even being live streamed:

[El Guapo]

Lots of folks melting down on twitter because the Russians are attempting to take over a nuclear power plant. Complete with rocket fire. People are losing their minds thinking it'll explode like an atomic bomb. That's not happening. Could there be an incident? For sure but the reactions help explain to me why people are so scared of them. They have no idea how they work.

So, what happens if they hit the plant? What are the odds that there is an 'incident' if they do?

[IceBear]

I don't think it goes boom like a nuke...it could be another Chernobyl

[malchior]

Lots of folks melting down on twitter because the Russians are attempting to take over a nuclear power plant. Complete with rocket fire. People are losing their minds thinking it'll explode like an atomic bomb. That's not happening. Could there be an incident? For sure but the reactions help explain to me why people are so scared of them. They have no idea how they work.

So, what happens if they hit the plant? What are the odds that there is an 'incident' if they do?

Well we don't even know if it was running. It if wasn't running, then mostly nothing bad will immediately happen. Maybe you leak contaminated water. If it's running, you probably could range up to a partial/full melt down - that'd be bad.

I participated in tabletop exercises around cybersecurity awareness attacks (big difference!) at some nuke plants domestically and I'd assume that bullets/bombs could easily do the same things as hacks. It comes down to whether the reactor units are 1) running, 2) the facility loses power *or* they lose any of the cooling loops (pumps/pipes in the facility/inlets at the nearby water source/cooling tower damage/etc.) In those cases, depending on the design they might be able to manually shut it down or it might even automatically shut down. These things typically have pretty heavy duty containment buildings. Chernobyl blew it's stack because of steam loac but most of those flawed designs were retired IIRC. Safer designs will have venting failsafes, they'll have reservoirs of coolant that'll give you hours to moderate the reactor, and some even have core catchers. Meaning if they melt down the core hits something very dense that'll give you a chance to recover. That'd all still be bad though because it could mean radioactive steam might be released (that happened at 3 Mile). In any case, these things need power and need to be cooled constantly or they risk a meltdown. Don't get me wrong here, the whole thing is super not ideal but it isn't going to result in an atomic explosion.

[IceBear]

It's on fire apparently

[malchior]

It's on fire apparently

I saw that - reported outside the facility. That might not mean much.

[Archinerd]

Crater own economy, check.
Become World's largest pariah state, check.
Self own with radioactive fallout, ...pending.

It's looking more and more like a Pyrrhic Putin Victory to me.

[Isgrimnur]

VVER-1000 reactors

[malchior]

VVER-1000 reactors

I was just reading that - 6 units. That's a very big facility. Hopefully these idiots don't knock out the power and can't get fuel to the generators. That is probably a bigger risk than knuckleheads firing RPGs.

[Defiant]

The reactor on fire is not operating, but does have fuel inside.

Tuz told Ukrainian television that shells were falling directly on the Zaporizhzhia plant and had set fire to one of the facility’s six reactors. That reactor is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside, he said.

Tuz said firefighters cannot get near the flames because they are being shot at. Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba tweeted a plea to the Russians to stop the assault and allow fire teams inside.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/war-i ... 1646352432

[Defiant]

Is Kasparov wrong here?



I think I'm in the camp that questions whether the "but Putin has NUKES" argument against more forceful intervention on behalf of the Ukranians really should end the conversation.

First of all, shouldn't that be "but Putin's words are backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS"?

I think the response to attacking a NATO country is clearly understood and has been for decades.

That said, when it comes to nuclear risk - I was listening to an interview with a former NATO official and he said that the possible use of nuclear weapons is much more ingrained in Russia's current thinking - including first strike useage. In addition, unlike in the Soviet Union, where the Politburo could act as a checks and balances, Putin has complete control over the nuclear weapons.

He also said that NATO isn't currently prepared for an attack on the Baltic states in terms of the forces there - that NATO should move (is moving?) more of it's forces into those countries (but that it'll be a slow process), and that longer term, if you want peace in NATO countries, Europe needs to build up it's deterrence and should be re-arming, etc. like it hasn't since the Cold War.

[Defiant]

[Smoove_B]

Well, I guess we officially know who's been blackmailing Lindsey now.

Also, WTF

[Jaymann]

That is just an assertion and a bunch of comments. Where is the statement from Graham?

[LawBeefaroni]

What good could possibly come of saying that out loud?

These idiots are just making things worse.


Mr. Wetworks over here.

Iran is angry with a prominent US senator, accusing him of calling on Israel to kill the Islamic Republic’s nuclear scientists.


Last month, Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina spoke to reporters in Jerusalem about the ongoing Iran nuclear deal talks. Graham reportedly said, “A lot of Iranian scientists have had a lot of accidents, and we would expect more accidents to come.”

[Defiant]

That is just an assertion and a bunch of comments. Where is the statement from Graham?

So he's calling on Russians to assassinate him, so not quite the same thing as it sounded.

[Jaymann]

Thanks, that's pretty close. Has Florida Man weighed in?

[Daehawk]

Maybe we can fly Lindsey over to Russia so he can take care of bid'ness.

[Unagi]

I said the same thing to my wife about 6 hours ago: That someone close to him, just needs to poison his tea.

He's a complete idiot to say this as a US Senator, at least at this stage of the game...

[Isgrimnur]

Especially seeing as he was on the Armed Services Committee for 16 years.