Ukraine
Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus
- YellowKing
- Posts: 31154
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:02 pm
Re: Ukraine
Wait, I'm confused. I thought only presidents controlled gas prices.
I read another NextDoor post today where this guy was arguing vehemently that Biden was solely in control of gas prices. The real kicker was him insulting anyone who disagreed with him and blaming them for - and I quote - "only getting their news from one source."
I read another NextDoor post today where this guy was arguing vehemently that Biden was solely in control of gas prices. The real kicker was him insulting anyone who disagreed with him and blaming them for - and I quote - "only getting their news from one source."
- Jaymann
- Posts: 20599
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
- Location: California
Re: Ukraine
That will be the deplorable spin. Gas prices dropped because Florida Man is on the verge of being reinstated.YellowKing wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:24 pm Wait, I'm confused. I thought only presidents controlled gas prices.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Leave no bacon behind.
]==(:::::::::::::>
Leave no bacon behind.
- Zarathud
- Posts: 17056
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
- Location: Chicago, Illinois
Re: Ukraine
Russia still has to maintain internal order.
It’s one thing to invade Ukraine on the assumption of being hailed as liberators. But Putin cannot open up the opportunity for internal dissension. Even without a NATO counter-attack, Putin needs to maintain control.
Putin can always sit down to negotiate a deal dividing up Ukraine and declare victory. Can’t declare “mission accomplished” with riots in the motherland.
It’s one thing to invade Ukraine on the assumption of being hailed as liberators. But Putin cannot open up the opportunity for internal dissension. Even without a NATO counter-attack, Putin needs to maintain control.
Putin can always sit down to negotiate a deal dividing up Ukraine and declare victory. Can’t declare “mission accomplished” with riots in the motherland.
"A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on." -Terry Pratchett, The Truth
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it." -Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it." -Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment
- IceBear
- Posts: 12519
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:58 pm
Re: Ukraine
But it seems that most Russians believe what Putin is saying. There's an interview on CNN with a Russian living in Ukraine who couldn't get his own father to believe him when he said what is going on. This mirrors what my cousin told me about her friend's father. If we could get most of the Russian people to see what's going on maybe there'd be change. As it is they believe NATO is attacking them with economic sanctions for no reason other than to attack Mother Russia
- stimpy
- Posts: 6178
- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:04 pm
Re: Ukraine
Show me the pumps.Daehawk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:12 pm Oil prices plunge as UAE supports supply boost
Told ya the deplorables would regret those gas pump stickers.
Oil prices have plunged after the United Arab Emirates said it supported increasing production.
Brent crude, an international benchmark, fell more than 17% at one point after the statement by the UAE, a member of the powerful oil cartel Opec.
The fall follows weeks of skyrocketing oil prices due to supply disruptions sparked by Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
He/Him/His/Porcupine
- hepcat
- Posts: 54086
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Ukraine
stimpy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:49 pmShow me the pumps.Daehawk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:12 pm Oil prices plunge as UAE supports supply boost
Told ya the deplorables would regret those gas pump stickers.
Oil prices have plunged after the United Arab Emirates said it supported increasing production.
Brent crude, an international benchmark, fell more than 17% at one point after the statement by the UAE, a member of the powerful oil cartel Opec.
The fall follows weeks of skyrocketing oil prices due to supply disruptions sparked by Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
Master of his domain.
- Alefroth
- Posts: 9258
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
- Location: Bellingham WA
- Alefroth
- Posts: 9258
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
- Location: Bellingham WA
Re: Ukraine
I think a lot of people are driven by the instant and personal gratitude they receive.
- Alefroth
- Posts: 9258
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
- Location: Bellingham WA
- LawBeefaroni
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 56027
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
- Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything
Re: Ukraine
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:50 pmConsidering that a lot of those yachts were paid for by siphoning money from the military budget, I'd say yachts. But only assuming the yachts are truly lost. If they're just held for a month and then returned it's merely an inconvenience.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:40 pm
I'd be curious which is more infuriating, seizing yachts or losing a regiment of tanks?
Russian ex-minister says invasion of Ukraine is stalling because officials stole from military budget for 'mega-yachts in Cyprus.
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 3:26 pm
No one had the balls to tell Putin they siphoned from the military budget to build his palaces.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
- Defiant
- Posts: 21045
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
- Location: Tongue in cheek
Re: Ukraine
At the rate Ukraine is killing generals, they might be grateful for being sacked.
Unless "sacked" is a euphemism for getting killed? It is, isn't it?
- Kurth
- Posts: 6401
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:19 am
- Location: Portland
Re: Ukraine
I thought the Ukranians already took care of "sacking" Gerasimov.
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
- Alefroth
- Posts: 9258
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
- Location: Bellingham WA
Re: Ukraine
Different Gerasimov.
- Lagom Lite
- Posts: 3439
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
- Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Re: Ukraine
Finland's Minister of Defense Antti Kaikkonen told the press that the continuation of Nato's open-door policy is important for Finland, but because of the situation in Ukraine, this is not the right time to apply for Nato membership.
"It seems that the idea within Nato is that the most important thing now, understandably and rightly, is how to ease the war in Ukraine, to achieve a ceasefire and perhaps a negotiation process. It's probably not the right time to post that membership application right now. Discussions are still underway and [Finland's] political parties are also considering their own positions," Kaikkonen said.
The defence minister added that he and his US counterpart were able to map out a number of areas of cooperation which can be further enhanced.
"A little later, I think we have something to tell on this front. The basis is now established. Next, we'll roll up our sleeves and get to work," is how Kaikkonen put it.
Aamulehti further reports that in addition to co-operation between Finland and the US, the Finnish defence minister said that he had also raised trilateral co-operation between Finland, Sweden and the US.
...
(A few days ago, Swedish PM Magdalena Andersson stated that a Swedish membership in NATO was not on the table.)
"It seems that the idea within Nato is that the most important thing now, understandably and rightly, is how to ease the war in Ukraine, to achieve a ceasefire and perhaps a negotiation process. It's probably not the right time to post that membership application right now. Discussions are still underway and [Finland's] political parties are also considering their own positions," Kaikkonen said.
The defence minister added that he and his US counterpart were able to map out a number of areas of cooperation which can be further enhanced.
"A little later, I think we have something to tell on this front. The basis is now established. Next, we'll roll up our sleeves and get to work," is how Kaikkonen put it.
Aamulehti further reports that in addition to co-operation between Finland and the US, the Finnish defence minister said that he had also raised trilateral co-operation between Finland, Sweden and the US.
...
(A few days ago, Swedish PM Magdalena Andersson stated that a Swedish membership in NATO was not on the table.)
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?
"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
Is there anyone in hell?
"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
- LawBeefaroni
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 56027
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
- Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything
Re: Ukraine
Cold Response 2022 should be fun.
WHO: Around 30,000 troops from over 25 countries from Europe and North America
WHAT: Training together in cold weather exercises – on land, in the air and at sea
WHERE: NATO Ally Norway and surrounding seas
WHEN: March-April 2022
WHY: Helping Allies and partners practise working together so that they are prepared for any situation
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton
MYT
-
- Posts: 24795
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm
Re: Ukraine
UK sanctions Abramovich - crippling Chelsea football club sports operations for the near-term. They can not sell additional tickets or buy/sell players amongst the many restrictions.
- dbt1949
- Posts: 25954
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:34 am
- Location: Spiro Oklahoma
Re: Ukraine
I just saw a clip about a Ukrainian guy who called his dad in Russia to say he was okay after the Russian invasion. His father refused to believe him and even after a follow up call still thinks he lying and that the Russians are getting rid of Nazis in Ukraine.
Do the Russian get the news on the internet? Of course they are not as many people who have the internet but those who do have access "real" news?
Do the Russian get the news on the internet? Of course they are not as many people who have the internet but those who do have access "real" news?
Ye Olde Farte
Double Ought Forty
aka dbt1949
Double Ought Forty
aka dbt1949
- noxiousdog
- Posts: 24627
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
- Contact:
Re: Ukraine
As long as oil stays over $80/barrel we are energy exporters. That's roughly the break even price for our shale oil resources.Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:22 am Forbes: Surprise! The U.S. Is Still Energy Independent
We had lost our energy independence several times on a monthly basis since May 2020. But, the full calendar years of 2020 and 2021 both turned out to be net export years.
...
[T]he graph also shows that once we first gained energy independence — which happened in April 2020 on a rolling 12-month basis — we have never lost it. But the downward trend switched directions in June 2021 (which covers the period of June 2020 through May 2021 — portions of both the Trump and Biden presidencies).
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
- IceBear
- Posts: 12519
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:58 pm
Re: Ukraine
That's the clip I was referring to earlier. My cousin, who lives in Alberta now, has a co-worker who is Ukrainian and married to a Russian. His mom is here visiting, but when they called his Dad back in Russia, they got the exact same response (this was Tuesday of this week). Given how, over here, we have many people believing weird conspiracy crap, I can see how they believe their propaganda news. So, it's not Putin's fault for the sanctions, it's ours, so if Putin declares war on the West, they'll heartily agree *sigh*dbt1949 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:29 am I just saw a clip about a Ukrainian guy who called his dad in Russia to say he was okay after the Russian invasion. His father refused to believe him and even after a follow up call still thinks he lying and that the Russians are getting rid of Nazis in Ukraine.
Do the Russian get the news on the internet? Of course they are not as many people who have the internet but those who do have access "real" news?
- LordMortis
- Posts: 71738
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Ukraine
CNBC is reporting that China is echoing Putin's speeches on sanctions being a US created problem and the US having bioweapon labs in Ukraine. They also mentioned anger that the US is claiming China knew Russia would invade Ukraine before hand (like every other government in the world knew Russia was preparing to invade Ukraine) Following with reports of some minister or another in China warning that China will not tolerate sanctions that affect the Chinese economy.So, it's not Putin's fault for the sanctions, it's ours, so if Putin declares war on the West, they'll heartily agree *sigh*
- Max Peck
- Posts: 14898
- Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
- Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole
Re: Ukraine
China is probably referring to the allegations that China pressured Russia to delay the invasion until after the Olympics (i.e. they didn't know about the invasion via intelligence, they knew about it because they discussed it with Russia).
"What? What? What?" -- The 14th Doctor
It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
- LordMortis
- Posts: 71738
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm
Re: Ukraine
I wouldn't presume to call it collusion but when Xi and Putin are publicly proclaiming the depths of their bonds in front of Olympics while all the governments of the world know Russia is openly preparing to invade Ukraine and Russia invaded Crimea right after the Winter Olympics in 2014, well...
- Scraper
- Posts: 2964
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:59 pm
Re: Ukraine
This really isn't good. If somehow it becomes a war between Russia and NATO you can bet that China will become involved and at that point we're officially in WW3. I think the only way this feasibly happens is if Russia keeps going past Ukraine and invades Finland or Moldova or Poland or some other eastern European country. At that point NATO will have no choice but to respond with force.LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:10 amCNBC is reporting that China is echoing Putin's speeches on sanctions being a US created problem and the US having bioweapon labs in Ukraine. They also mentioned anger that the US is claiming China knew Russia would invade Ukraine before hand (like every other government in the world knew Russia was preparing to invade Ukraine) Following with reports of some minister or another in China warning that China will not tolerate sanctions that affect the Chinese economy.So, it's not Putin's fault for the sanctions, it's ours, so if Putin declares war on the West, they'll heartily agree *sigh*
FTE
- Carpet_pissr
- Posts: 20793
- Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
- Location: Columbia, SC
Re: Ukraine
Based on ‘leaked’ maps, Moldova is also part of the plan. Rather, images of strategic maps showing future Russian troop positions.
- IceBear
- Posts: 12519
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:58 pm
Re: Ukraine
Yeah, I was really hoping the peace talks would have gone somewhere today (though I really doubted it, but was hoping there was enough for Putin to "save face"). I suspect they'll soon start using chemical weapons and try to spin it on the US/Ukraine
- Lagom Lite
- Posts: 3439
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
- Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Re: Ukraine
If Putin follows through on invading Moldova after the Ukrainan failure, he's officially lost his tiny mind.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 10:09 am Based on ‘leaked’ maps, Moldova is also part of the plan. Rather, images of strategic maps showing future Russian troop positions.
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?
"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
Is there anyone in hell?
"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
- Isgrimnur
- Posts: 84902
- Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
- Location: Chookity pok
- Contact:
Re: Ukraine
Then that makes it a market problem, rather than a policy issue.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:56 am As long as oil stays over $80/barrel we are energy exporters. That's roughly the break even price for our shale oil resources.
My rep, ladies and germs.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
-
- Posts: 3193
- Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:46 pm
Re: Ukraine
It's really only younger folks in Russia who get news from the internet. Part of Putin's overall political strategy has been allowing a limited degree of independent press to give the illusion of freedom and openness, but that's been gradually disappearing. All of the television news is state owned and run. WSJ just ran an interview with the last independent media outlet in Russia that shut down last week.dbt1949 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:29 am I just saw a clip about a Ukrainian guy who called his dad in Russia to say he was okay after the Russian invasion. His father refused to believe him and even after a follow up call still thinks he lying and that the Russians are getting rid of Nazis in Ukraine.
Do the Russian get the news on the internet? Of course they are not as many people who have the internet but those who do have access "real" news?
No sig, must scream, etc.
- Jaymann
- Posts: 20599
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:13 pm
- Location: California
Re: Ukraine
My most egregious take away is "woke climate activism" trying to equate action on climate change with woke culture. Some of the advocates may overlap, but the two issues are unrelated.
Last edited by Jaymann on Thu Mar 10, 2022 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Leave no bacon behind.
]==(:::::::::::::>
Leave no bacon behind.
- Daehawk
- Posts: 65722
- Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:11 am
Re: Ukraine
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
When in doubt, skewer it out...I don't know.
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
When in doubt, skewer it out...I don't know.
- Zaxxon
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 28520
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:11 am
- Location: Surrounded by Mountains
Re: Ukraine
Straying far afield now, but IMO it's just another in a long line of turning words that mean positive things into perceived negatives...
- Woke = Internally 'woke up,' realizing issues with things previously taken as A-ok but that in reality trampled on others in some way. But now it's a pejorative. We can't be re-evaluating long-standing beliefs, after all!
- Progressive / liberal = wanting progress, to move society forward. Of course these are positive things, but now we just gots to own the libs. Being for progress is a terrible thing, as it's spun to mean 'taking things from me and mine in order to give to The Other.'
- Elite = have done well in life. That's a terrible thing now, though.
- Skinypupy
- Posts: 21149
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:12 am
- Location: Utah
Re: Ukraine
This is perfectly on brand.
“Zelenskyy is a thug. Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies.”
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
- Blackhawk
- Posts: 46054
- Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
- Location: Southwest Indiana
Re: Ukraine
So, Microsoft, EA, GOG, Epic, ActiBlizz, Ubisoft, Nintendo, and Playstation have all cut off services to Russia. Steam hasn't, but without credit cards or PayPal, the purchase options are limited. Without their time sinks, that'll be sure to get the young folk riled.
Can't have the young folks riled! Just legalize piracy. The masses need their opiates.
Can't have the young folks riled! Just legalize piracy. The masses need their opiates.
What doesn't kill me makes me stranger.
- El Guapo
- Posts: 42013
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
- Location: Boston
Re: Ukraine
Well, that fear is predicated on Russia eventually overwhelming Ukraine. It's hard for me to assess how likely that is at this point, though.Lagom Lite wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:52 amIf Putin follows through on invading Moldova after the Ukrainan failure, he's officially lost his tiny mind.Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 10:09 am Based on ‘leaked’ maps, Moldova is also part of the plan. Rather, images of strategic maps showing future Russian troop positions.
Black Lives Matter.
- $iljanus
- Forum Moderator
- Posts: 13919
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 pm
- Location: New England...or under your bed
Re: Ukraine
Brother in law reached out to someone he knew in Moscow and asked if he knew what was happening in Ukraine. My brother in law is almost 50 so I’ll make the assumption that the person he was talking to is around the same age. The Russian said he didn’t watch much state news but all he heard was that there was fighting and Ukrainian soldiers were using civilians as human shields and blowing up civilian structures. Also said how Russians were suffering too, I assume referring to their economy crashing and the lack of Big Macs. BIL then set him straight on what was happening and implored him to spread the information. I think we have an uphill battle to try and spread the truth to a pretty large country with a substantial population and no free press. But if we are going to shorten this war we gotta try.paulbaxter wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:00 pmIt's really only younger folks in Russia who get news from the internet. Part of Putin's overall political strategy has been allowing a limited degree of independent press to give the illusion of freedom and openness, but that's been gradually disappearing. All of the television news is state owned and run. WSJ just ran an interview with the last independent media outlet in Russia that shut down last week.dbt1949 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:29 am I just saw a clip about a Ukrainian guy who called his dad in Russia to say he was okay after the Russian invasion. His father refused to believe him and even after a follow up call still thinks he lying and that the Russians are getting rid of Nazis in Ukraine.
Do the Russian get the news on the internet? Of course they are not as many people who have the internet but those who do have access "real" news?
"Who's going to tell him that the job he's currently seeking might just be one of those Black jobs?"
-Michelle Obama 2024 Democratic Convention
Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
-Michelle Obama 2024 Democratic Convention
Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
- Isgrimnur
- Posts: 84902
- Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
- Location: Chookity pok
- Contact:
Re: Ukraine
I forgot that Russia is so low in corruption. Oh, wait...
It's almost as if people are the problem.
- Unagi
- Posts: 28221
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Ukraine
wouldn't the lowest-rated have a ranking of 180th out of 180?
- IceBear
- Posts: 12519
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:58 pm
- hepcat
- Posts: 54086
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!
Re: Ukraine
Try drilling for oil near one of their homes and we'll see how long it takes them to become anti climate change. I've always thought that the moment someone puts an oil rig within sight of Mar-a-Lago is the moment Trump starts screaming that we're doing too much drilling.Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:54 amThen that makes it a market problem, rather than a policy issue.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:56 am As long as oil stays over $80/barrel we are energy exporters. That's roughly the break even price for our shale oil resources.
My rep, ladies and germs.
Master of his domain.
- Isgrimnur
- Posts: 84902
- Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
- Location: Chookity pok
- Contact:
Re: Ukraine
It's almost as if people are the problem.