Racism in America (with data)

[Jaymann]

Can a white person profile a white skinhead?

[stimpy]

Can a white person profile a white skinhead?

As an asshole? Yes.
Racially? I dont know, hence the question.

[Unagi]

No, you say, "Hi, I'd like to speak to a manager privately.". You give said manager the slip and ID (and uncover your face.)

But wouldn’t the bank first take the withdraw slip and ID and see if I might just be using the bank?


I will certainly say that handing a bank teller a hand written note is profoundly odd, but I’d honestly think the presentation of valid ID and a bank withdrawal note with this ID’s valid bank account informational would basically relieve one of all concerns.

I dunno, this seems like a massive mistake that can’t just be waved away by “makes sense if you think about it”

[Unagi]

Can a white person profile a white skinhead?

As an asshole? Yes.
Racially? I dont know, hence the question.

Yes. To answer your question.

[Blackhawk]

Can a black person (the teller) racially profile another black person (the customer)?

Absolutely.

And it may have happened. I'm not denying that there was a racial element somewhere between the teller, the manager, and the cops.

I'm saying that there is nothing in the story as reported that suggests it without injecting assumptions. I don't like to condemn people for terrible injustices based on assumptions.

[Unagi]

It is not only white officers who abuse their authority. The effect of institutional racism is such that no matter what color the officer abusing the citizen is, in the vast majority of those cases of abuse that citizen will be black or brown. That is what is allowed.

This has nothing to do with bank tellers, but on a police force it’s a thing.

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/r ... ce-officer

[Zarathud]

If you ever have this situation, it helps to have a private banker you can call to make arrangements in advance. The bank likely gave him a contact in that department so it wouldn’t happen again.

[Blackhawk]

No, you say, "Hi, I'd like to speak to a manager privately.". You give said manager the slip and ID (and uncover your face.)

But wouldn’t the bank first take the withdraw slip and ID and see if I might just be using the bank?

You wouldn't offer the teller a slip. Just a request. I'd imagine they might ask you what it concerns, or might have a teller meet with you in private (that's what they do at my bank - a teller steps into one of the offices with you.) And again, that's why, if you have time to write notes, you have time to call ahead, tell them you'd like to arrange a large withdrawal in private, and ask for a manager.

[Unagi]

If you ever have this situation, it helps to have a private banker you can call to make arrangements in advance. The bank likely gave him a contact in that department so it wouldn’t happen again.

While that is probably true, I bet the bank gave him more than a phone number, for him to ‘move on’, but perhaps he felt he had some blame for handing over any written note - and didn’t make a stink.

[Unagi]

No, you say, "Hi, I'd like to speak to a manager privately.". You give said manager the slip and ID (and uncover your face.)

But wouldn’t the bank first take the withdraw slip and ID and see if I might just be using the bank?

You wouldn't offer the teller a slip. Just a request. I'd imagine they might ask you what it concerns, or might have a teller meet with you in private (that's what they do at my bank - a teller steps into one of the offices with you.) And again, that's why, if you have time to write notes, you have time to call ahead, tell them you'd like to arrange a large withdrawal in private, and ask for a manager.

I guess I am just looking at this entirely from another angle.

Bear with me.



After being handed ID and a withdrawal slip and being given no ‘demands’, what would make the teller think it was a hold up? I mean he had ID and a withdrawal slip. What else on earth doesn’t establish your legitimate request for money at a bank if not that?

[Blackhawk]

After being handed ID and a withdrawal slip and being given no ‘demands’, what would make the teller think it was a hold up? I mean he had ID and a withdrawal slip. What else on earth doesn’t establish your legitimate request for money at a bank if not that?

Your face, for one. ID minus a face isn't ID. And the cashier possibly overreacted. But that's just people - not necessarily race.

[Blackhawk]

FWIW, I've been trying to find clear accounts of what happened from sources that aren't focusing on the OUTRAGE (IE - coloring their narrative.) There aren't many.

Again, race may have been a factor. Overreaction and fear were definitely a factor. It's just hard to be sure without anyone telling their story (and neither Coogler nor the bank are - just PR releases.)

FWIW, from the looks of things the teller, manager, and both arresting officers were all black.

[LawBeefaroni]

Bottom line, don't go off script in a bank. Definitely don't slip the teller notes and ask to go to a back room.

I always remove my sunglasses before entering and my hat if I'm wearing one. It's a courtesy to everyone working there.

[noxiousdog]

This is an incident that I could 100 percent see playing out the same way with a white man.

I'm with you up until this point. I firmly believe that if I, a clean-cut white male, did the same exact thing the cops would not have been called. I'm sure the bank would be suspicious, but I bet their first instinct would be to ask me more questions rather than calling the cops.

Let's test it.

[Zarathud]

If you ever have this situation, it helps to have a private banker you can call to make arrangements in advance. The bank likely gave him a contact in that department so it wouldn’t happen again.

While that is probably true, I bet the bank gave him more than a phone number, for him to ‘move on’, but perhaps he felt he had some blame for handing over any written note - and didn’t make a stink.

The bank definitely kissed his ass and set up a meeting with the contact who is now responsible for being highly accommodating. If you have that level of means and access, you get special treatment. Which is why you don’t go to a retail teller with that ask.

[LawBeefaroni]

After being handed ID and a withdrawal slip and being given no ‘demands’, what would make the teller think it was a hold up? I mean he had ID and a withdrawal slip. What else on earth doesn’t establish your legitimate request for money at a bank if not that?

He also gave the teller a note with special instructions. That is almost guaranteed to raise suspicion and get a finger on the silent alarm. That's exactly how a bank robber would do it, appear to present ID and withdrawal slip and include a note announcing the robbery. If his note started with, "I would like $12,000...." the teller is probably in panic mode right there and not really going to read the rest of it.

[Blackhawk]

Watching all of the bodycam footage, I don't see any issues with the cops at all. They walked up on an unknown person that had the potential to be dangerous (they'd only received a call that there was a potential robbery, they didn't have the specifics until later.) They detained him long enough to confirm he wasn't a threat, then uncuffed him and discussed it with him, sans bullshit.

Bottom line, don't go off script in a bank. Definitely don't slip the teller notes and ask to go to a back room.

My time working in casinos has made that kind of thing second nature. It's probably why I can see the bank's perspective here, too.

[Blackhawk]

To put another angle on it, I'm at a teller making a transaction, and a person with his face covered walks up to the teller next to me. He hands her some papers. She says, "Good morning. How can I help you?" and he says, "Read the note."

I don't care if he's a clean-cut middle aged white man wearing a three-piece suit with a caduceus lapel pin and a minister's collar. I'm glancing at the exits, I'm looking for the nearest cover, and I'm casually stepping away with an eye for who might be with him. There are just too many warning signs there to ignore.

[stimpy]

To put another angle on it, I'm at a teller making a transaction, and a person with his face covered walks up to the teller next to me. He hands her some papers. She says, "Good morning. How can I help you?" and he says, "Read the note."

I don't care if he's a clean-cut middle aged white man wearing a three-piece suit with a caduceus lapel pin and a minister's collar. I'm glancing at the exits, I'm looking for the nearest cover, and I'm casually stepping away with an eye for who might be with him. There are just too many warning signs there to ignore.

You wouldnt tackle him and save the day?

[Blackhawk]

You wouldnt tackle him and save the day?

Tackle a potential (not confirmed) threat in order to save insured money? If all he's taking is money, I'll hold the damned door open for him and wish him a nice day.

[Isgrimnur]

Can a black person (the teller) racially profile another black person (the customer)?

Yes.

[Unagi]

I'm going to downgrade my position a notch. Depending on how the note read, I can see how it could invoke a silent alarm trigger, especially with the added sunglasses/hat thing, regardless of race.

It's odd that he claims to the police that this is how he always does it (pretty sure he said that in his explanation to the police, outside).


I can certainly say that I would not go into my bank, w/ hat-glasses & mask - and feel ok handing the teller a handwritten note, (especially as a freaking movie director) without realizing how that may look.

That being said, it strikes me that a deaf person may start with a note to the teller (minus the attire) each time they visit the bank, so I would think the note's content would be the most important part of this story.

[LawBeefaroni]

If he's done this a lot, he'd probably know that it's best to call ahead and/or ask for a manager or client service rep. Even is every goes smoothly, most tellers aren't going to have $12K in the drawer. He would be wasting a lot of time doing it that way.

If he meant he always used the teller for smaller amounts, sure. But again, anything over $10K hits special procedures.

[Unagi]

He seemed to imply (perhaps I read into it) that he has paid this woman this much money in cash before, and that he likes to do it discretely to feel safe, and that he does it here and always does it like this (I'd need to go back and listen to his words to see if he says just that). But that was what I got from listening to his backseat interview.


I'm not arguing with anyone, I agree it was stupid and there are established ways to make large withdrawals from banks, and that if he's done it before - wouldn't he know it.

It's all very odd.

[Blackhawk]

I would think the note's content would be the most important part of this story.

“I would like to withdraw $12,000 cash from my checking account. Please do the money count somewhere else. I’d like to be discreet.”

Again, it does sound like the teller misinterpreted/overreacted to the note. There was one source that said that she went to the manager, the manager said, "Let's go talk to him", and she was so scared that she refused (she was pregnant and feared he had a gun.) I couldn't find other sources with that, though, so didn't mention it previously. If that is true, though, it was avoidable. The manager could have talked to him without her. But fear is a powerful factor in situations like that, and the teller's fear could have been passed on to the manager - it works that way, sometimes. When the manager felt that fear, he may have played it safe and asked the cops to figure it out. It still sounds like it was a misunderstanding with some culpability from both sides.

Another thing, related - what was painful was seeing how much fear Coogler was experiencing, and justifiably (as the rest of this thread shows.)

[Blackhawk]

Keeping in mind that 'bank manager' is a job in which the idea of someone standing there with a gun is a real, every day possibility. I can't imagine any bank manager that hasn't had a terrifying scenario or two play out in his mind. The basis for the fear is real.

And that's sad, too.

[Unagi]

she was pregnant and

oh well shit. That right there is probably an enormous player.

[Freyland]

she was pregnant and

oh well shit. That right there is probably an enormous player.

Hey! That's Hormone Profiling!

[Alefroth]

Bottom line, don't go off script in a bank. Definitely don't slip the teller notes and ask to go to a back room.

I always remove my sunglasses before entering and my hat if I'm wearing one. It's a courtesy to everyone working there.

It's more than a courtesy where I work, it's a requirement. As well as momentarily lowering your mask and looking at the camera.

I was working on a computer next to a window that was getting robbed. No one knew it was a robbery until the robber left, other than the teller. He hadn't lowered his mask, and a teller from a couple of windows over kept asking him to lower his mask. The robber just kept nodding and the teller just kept asking. Eventually the robber just walked away.

[Alefroth]

If he's done this a lot, he'd probably know that it's best to call ahead and/or ask for a manager or client service rep. Even is every goes smoothly, most tellers aren't going to have $12K in the drawer. He would be wasting a lot of time doing it that way.

If he meant he always used the teller for smaller amounts, sure. But again, anything over $10K hits special procedures.

The special procedures don't involve the customer at all.

Tellers don't have 12K in their drawer, but it's easily accessible from a cash dispenser which is right on the teller line. Some tellers don't have a drawer at all and work right out of the dispenser.

[Daehawk]

https://twitter.com/nbcsnl/status/1502873834029989889

[em2nought]

So what's the best way to take a large sum of cash out of your account discretely? The drive thru? What's the best way to keep Police from taking it from you in a traffic stop? The idea that they could do that, and just say "drugs" always scares me as an average person looking below average in my twenty year old vehicle.

[Isgrimnur]

Bank check to the recipient (how I paid my roofer), preloaded debit card, wire transfer,…

[em2nought]

Bank check to the recipient (how I paid my roofer), preloaded debit card, wire transfer,…

The pertinent word here being "cash". I think those preloaded debit cards can be seized too, at least I read something about having that ability in Oklahoma which isn't pertinent to me unless it's other states as well.

[LawBeefaroni]

So what's the best way to take a large sum of cash out of your account discretely? The drive thru? What's the best way to keep Police from taking it from you in a traffic stop? The idea that they could do that, and just say "drugs" always scares me as an average person looking below average in my twenty year old vehicle.

Call ahead, meet with private banker/client services. Backpack. Keep a bank receipt/transaction slip with the money.

I once deposited $21k in mixed bills in a drive through. Took 30 minutes about 45 minutes before closing. Felt bad but they knew me and said it was fine. I would have called but someone dropped off what I expected.to be checks in cash and I wasn't keeping that in the house. Was a slightly uncomfortable drive too.

[stessier]

That's good for depositing or withdrawing, but in terms of keeping the cops from taking it, you don't have a chance. Just having that amount of money on you is considered evidence of a crime by police and prosecutors in a ton of cases. And once they have it, you'll spend more trying to get it back. It's really crummy how asset forfeiture works.

[Unagi]

Best advice for you em2nought would probably be to have the hooker meet you just outside the bank.

[Grifman]

https://twitter.com/minjinlee11/status/ ... 68075?s=21

[Daehawk]

Someone out there raised that piece of shit. They're as responsible as he is.

[LawBeefaroni]

Someone out there raised that piece of shit. They're as responsible as he is.

He's 42. Lots of shit happens between being raised and being 42 regardless of who raised him. I'd say this is all on him.