How is your career going?

[ImLawBoy]

I just found out that I'm about to reach the salary cap for my position. I have 1, *maybe* 2 more years of raises before I'm maxed. That's going to bring some interesting decisions. Really the only way for me to move up to a new tier is to go into management, something which I've been loathe to do since I enjoy the technical side and don't really want the stress that comes with a management role.

On the other hand, never getting another raise is a sucky position to be in as prices continue to climb. My wife hasn't had a raise in 6 or 7 years, so we've been depending on my raises to keep up with the cost of living.

My dad capped out toward the end of his career, so he worked out alternate arrangements with his employer. The biggest one was that they gave him a company car and paid for gas he used in it regardless of whether he was using it for business or not.

[Carpet_pissr]

OK, guys, last chance to weigh in on my dilemma!

Not sure if I posted here, or in a separate thread, but here's the skinny I'd like advice on if you're willing:

My age: 49
Been in sales my whole career (approx 95 to 2018).
Let go in 2017 from a sales position, and worked as a consultant (independent) for about a year, with one client that took most of my time.
Then I just fizzled completely and started either doing nothing, or what most would consider menial jobs I guess, or at least jobs that don't require a degree: delivery, construction, some census work, lots of Instacart, and even USPS for about 8 months.
That's not a judgement on menial work AT ALL( I actually have and always have had a healthy, honest respect for it), just that it was a 180º from what I had been doing (office work, lots of international travel, lots of autonomy, and a commensurate salary and perks).

FF to today. Literally the first job application I have sent in maybe 3 years, I got an immediate call back, with them wanting to talk to me. I have an interview tomorrow for a job that resembles my previous sales career, for better or for worse.

The problem: On my resumé, I have INDEPENDENT TRADE CONSULTANT from 2018 to present. That's a bit of a white lie, as I had one major client for 15 months, but since then nothing, and have not actively tried to get more clients. That leaves a "gap", for RELATED work, from about April 2019 - to current.

1. I'm wondering if I should adjust my resumé in some way for this time period, as I am afraid when it inevitably comes up in the interview...they will figure out that at the least I fudged the truth (or feel like I did, or that something is 'off'). I also feel sure that if I list all my "experience" after I stopped doing consulting work, no one in this field, for the level of positions I am applying for, will even talk to me, much less hire me. It's too...weird and questionable, and a bunch of other not so nice adverbs.

2. Re: tomorrow specifically, how do you think I should handle the question: "so tell me about what you are doing now? How many clients do you have?"
My suggested answer: I worked almost full time for one client for about 15 months, then my wife went back to work and I became a stay at home Dad (3 kids). I kept my business, but didn't have the time to pursue other clients at that point. (or, "I kept my consulting business, but made a conscious decision not to pursue any more contracts for the medium term given my personal situation").

The REAL answer is: being a stay-at-home Dad for the past 2.5 years, with some flex work mixed in when I was able. My wife thinks I should just say that, because otherwise they will think I am lying and that will be the end of that.

FWIW I did not technically end my consulting business...if someone were to approach me today with another consulting project like the first one I had, I would take it in a heartbeat. My hope is that at some point in the interview, we can focus on the work I did that is more relevant to the position I am applying for, instead of getting hung up on the consultant bit (which yes, I am aware, is a red flag on any resume). I will also say that the work I did for my client was directly related to the positions I am applying for. Essentially they used me as a contracted salesperson, and for my global network of people I knew and met over 16 years.

[LawBeefaroni]

COVID, man. Most applicants I've seen lately either took time off during COVID or switched careers.

"Stay at home dad not actively pursuing new clients during COVID uncertainty" covers 2021 and 2020. You kept your skills sharp with the one major client.

I wouldn't fib, it's not really necessary and can be confusing in an interview, getting too "creative". Just kind of blur the lines a bit.

[gilraen]

Blame COVID

Seriously, though, don't say that you explicitly took 2.5 years off, say that you took about 6 months after April 2019 to "reassess what you wanted to do" (or some-such), and then as you were ready to start looking for more consulting opportunities, COVID happened (and at that point, you just did some occasional flex work but didn't actively pursue anything more time-consuming).

Edit: LawBeef beat me to it

[Carpet_pissr]

I like those, thanks guys. Someone in my other post about this mentioned COVID as well. I guess because I was totally working out and about from the outset of COVID, through last quarter, I lost sight of how it probably affected white collar office work.

I will add that to my arsenal.

[stessier]

I like those, thanks guys. Someone in my other post about this mentioned COVID as well. I guess because I was totally working out and about from the outset of COVID, through last quarter, I lost sight of how it probably affected white collar office work.

I will add that to my arsenal.

I've been looking to hire people - in fairness, not at your level - and the COVID answer is real and totally understandable/believable. It's not even worth asking about - I just move on to the skills they had in the before times.

[Carpet_pissr]

I like those, thanks guys. Someone in my other post about this mentioned COVID as well. I guess because I was totally working out and about from the outset of COVID, through last quarter, I lost sight of how it probably affected white collar office work.

I will add that to my arsenal.

I've been looking to hire people - in fairness, not at your level - and the COVID answer is real and totally understandable/believable. It's not even worth asking about - I just move on to the skills they had in the before times.

Oooh, that's good to know. I'm not sure what my level even is...now. It was 'Asssistant Sales Director - Latn America' when I got the boot (but TBH they only gave me that title so they could justify my higher base salary compared to my peers) From a typical role/function perspective at say a large or enterprise level company, I would probably put it at Sr. Account Executive.

I am not looking for that now, though. Been there, done that... too much travel and time away from the fam. Inside sales would be fine, or some kind of sales type job that doesn't carry a quota. "Customer Success Manager" is a newish thing...that sounds more my speed at this age.

[Zarathud]

COVID + foreign sales is a damn good explanation. It’s not like you could travel overseas to raise new business.

[LordMortis]

I handed off my work phone today. It's been a crappy day from the moment I walked in but giving up that phone felt great. I am eager to go back to working from home and letting the next guy handle the shit show and to having less calls and constant *ding*s.

[Carpet_pissr]

Welp, the HR person did not call me at the time we were supposed to 'chat' this morning. Pretty damn unprofessional if you ask me.

I assume they already made an offer to someone else (though I expressed interest in two different openings), or more likely, did some digging on me to see how old I was.
49 is not that old, people!!
The qualifications are right on target, like eerily so (including "nice to have" speaking both Spanish AND Portuguese!).

Possible that "independent consultant" on my cv also scared them off. Dammit.

But at least give a brother a shout out that you're "going in a different direction" or some similar bs business speak. Ghosting, especially when a specific day and time was set, ain't cool. Now I'm wishing I had not told the kids about my exciting job interview.

[Smoove_B]

This is work related to I'm going to post it here. I know it's small potatoes in comparison to what so many are dealing with, but JFC already - how is it 2022 and people don't understand "reply" vs "reply all" when they see an email request?

[EvilHomer3k]

This is work related to I'm going to post it here. I know it's small potatoes in comparison to what so many are dealing with, but JFC already - how is it 2022 and people don't understand "reply" vs "reply all" when they see an email request?

Not only that. Most email programs make it hard to hit reply all.

[Carpet_pissr]

Finally got a response from HR that missed our interview call 2 days ago. She apologized and said she dropped the ball. Two days is not HORRIBLE (I remember being so busy that I did this kind of thing myself a couple of times), but I will say it dimished my excitement about the position. Especially now that I think I have found a better niche for me at this point in my career: Customer Success Manager (insert trumpet fanfare sound here)

What is that you ask? It's a hybrid of a sales role and a customer service role - primarily focused on client retention, training, onboarding, etc. And best of all? NO QUOTA! The one position have applied to so far shows only 10% travel (and it shows UP TO), which is perfect for me. I'm very much not interested in traveling much more than that. Been there, done that in my earlier days (maybe 40-50% at one point).

I plan to use this rescheduled interview as practice, and to get some of the rust off of my interviewing skills, before I start interviews for positions I *really* want. If they make me some crazy offer I can't refuse, fine, but given their size and age, I seriously doubt that will happen.

I also feel optimistic for the first time in a very long time (thanks, Welbutrin! ), feeling like I can finally get back on the proverbial horse again (if the horse will still have me at an ancient 49 years old).

My real desire after getting laid off so many years ago (2017?), was to spend my pretty massive severance package on a pivot to starting my own business (other than the consulting I did do for just a year). But I didn't make that happen for a lot of reasons, one important one being I had so many ideas, I couldn't decide where to jump! Anyway, I didn't quite spend my severance on hookers and blow, but I might as well have, considering my wife was not working at the time. With three kids, and no one working, well, you get the idea. Basically used all that severance to fund my lack of working (other than gig type stuff I did off and on) for about 3 years.

It's past time to correct that, and even though I am going back to a world I thought I left behind for good (white collar office work), at least I am enthused about it NOT being pure sales, which to be quite honest, burned me out so badly, it was if I was in a haze for years (looking back with hindsight).

Onwarrd and upward (hopefully)!

[Carpet_pissr]

One more thing, for anyone looking right now, I can't recommend the Fishbowl app enough. You can log in using your LinkedIn profile, and I have never seen such a...honest? and helpful board.

I guess the idea is that it's a group of professionals (almost all posters seem to be above, or well above entry level, and lots of VP's), chatting about their work. I was floored by the quality of the conversation, and the candor, frankly.

Want a job working for X company as a Y? Ask about it, and likely someone currently working in that role will answer. Or more generally, something like "what does it realistically take to pivot from an engineer role to sales?" or whatever. Realllly solid info, including a lot of hiring managers reading and responding (and even asking some people to email them directly) at top companies.

An example I saw posted today that had some great advice:

"Would you leave a top IT company to move to a start up that is highly anticipated and is eminently going public within the next 2 years? This company would have higher pay and seemingly more opportunities for growth as well…need help!"

fishbowlapp.com if anyone is interested. Even if you aren't looking for a job, I think it's pretty cool to be able to converse very candidly about certain companies, their cultures, etc. Kinda surprised LinkedIn never created something like this and integrated it into their platform...it fits PERFECTLY. Well, one of the ideas is that you can post RELATIVELY anonymously on Fishbowl (you decide how much info is shown when you post...could be "Sr. VP at Cisco" or just "Cisco" or just "Sr. VP".

Another example:
"Hi everyone. I’m currently an AM at docusign, making a decent living and find the product easy to sell. However I have been approached by Gartner, and in the process of interviewing with them.
If we’re talking same title (compensation is slightly higher but I’m not moving because of the money) which company is better?
Criteria I am looking for is:

Career growth
Overarching targets
Looks better on the CV"

Someone that worked at Gartner responded directly, and pretty quickly. Pretty cool!

Note also that the "bowls" I am looking at are sales-related, but they have "engineering" bowls, "IT" bowls, etc.

[LawBeefaroni]

Finally got a response from HR that missed our interview call 2 days ago. She apologized and said she dropped the ball. Two days is not HORRIBLE (I remember being so busy that I did this kind of thing myself a couple of times), but I will say it dimished my excitement about the position. Especially now that I think I have found a better niche for me at this point in my career: Customer Success Manager (insert trumpet fanfare sound here)

When I interviewed here, the HR process was horrible. Almost put me off but I'm glad it didn't. I later learned sitting on the other side that the screening team here sucked. Nice people but terrible at HR. Fortunately didn't reflect the rest of the organization.

[coopasonic]

Yeah our hiring process can be... disappointing at times, but it's a great company to work for. There is just too much going on at any one time. We are supposed to hire a lot (not sure what info is public so can't be more specific) this year and our recruiting staff is spread pretty thin. When I started here, from application submitted to first day on the job was like 6 business days. Now it may be 2-3 weeks just to get an interview slot.

[Carpet_pissr]

Now it may be 2-3 weeks just to get an interview slot.

Why? I would think it would be the opposite considering the unemployment rate.

[coopasonic]

Now it may be 2-3 weeks just to get an interview slot.

Why? I would think it would be the opposite considering the unemployment rate.

To get hired as a software engineer with my employer, there is a pre-screen and 4 (or 5 for higher levels) one hour interviews performed by 4 different people in the same or similar role. You can only do so many of those a day. We have actual job responsibilities, so we can't be interviewing people all the time. We could do it faster, but we actually need good devs who would also be good employees and that's not a simple determination to make.

Which doesn't seem to answer your questions, really. Tech is a very high turnover field and a job here is actually pretty in demand based on "best place to work" stuff and our salaries.

[Carpet_pissr]

Now it may be 2-3 weeks just to get an interview slot.

Why? I would think it would be the opposite considering the unemployment rate.

To get hired as a software engineer with my employer, there is a pre-screen and 4 (or 5 for higher levels) one hour interviews performed by 4 different people in the same or similar role. You can only do so many of those a day. We have actual job responsibilities, so we can't be interviewing people all the time. We could do it faster, but we actually need good devs who would also be good employees and that's not a simple determination to make.

Which doesn't seem to answer your questions, really. Tech is a very high turnover field and a job here is actually pretty in demand based on "best place to work" stuff and our salaries.

I snipped the quote too short - I meant why is it so much longer now, compared to the 6 days it previously took?

[coopasonic]

The massive volume. Our workforce needs to grow significantly, including in recruiting staff. Tech recruiters are in nearly as much demand as tech talent. Interestingly the actual interviews today are not all that different than what I went through 20 years ago

[Carpet_pissr]

The massive volume. Our workforce needs to grow significantly, including in recruiting staff. Tech recruiters are in nearly as much demand as tech talent. Interestingly the actual interviews today are not all that different than what I went through 20 years ago

Yeah, that is one shocking thing I am seeing now in the market. A few of the companies I was looking at (I think Salesforce was the main one), there were, and I'm not exaggerating...dozens and dozens (maybe more than a hundred?!) of openings for recruiters! I actually thought it was some kind of mistake, that the same job opening was being repeated page after page....but no. And I saw that at so many similar, larger companies.

[Kasey Chang]

Just finished my 2nd tour. Twelve people, got about 80-90 in tips, not bad. But one day out of the week ain't quite enough to feed myself and pay all my expenses. I'll need to find something for M-F.

It's weird that I keep applying and my resume keeps getting round-filed for tech jobs. Anyone want to look my resume over and figure out what's wrong with it?

[Jaymann]

Might I suggest:

[Isgrimnur]

[LordMortis]

That's is exactly the format of resumes I saw when interviewing. We chose... poorly. But then there weren't a lot of candidates and none of them were great.

[Jeff V]

Might I suggest:

The eye patch would be mandatory if cutlass use below decks is needed.

[gbasden]

Customer Success Manager (insert trumpet fanfare sound here)

If you feel like moving to Sacramento and working with California State Government, my team at Microsoft has or will have two open Customer Success Account Manager roles opening shortly. The benefits rock and the pay is pretty decent.

[Kasey Chang]

Sac's a little too far for me, unfortunately.

I have a connection that indicates some jobs available at the airport, not tech-related, but something is better than nothing. Commute would be a little long, but not outrageously so. The problem is commute cost. BART to airport from downtown is $10 EACH WAY, and that's assuming I walk to BART station. Taking the bus would add $5 round trip per day or extra 100 per month. That's 500 a month (assuming 20 working days per month). But if it pays a decent salary with benefits, then it may be tolerable.

[Carpet_pissr]

Customer Success Manager (insert trumpet fanfare sound here)

If you feel like moving to Sacramento and working with California State Government, my team at Microsoft has or will have two open Customer Success Account Manager roles opening shortly. The benefits rock and the pay is pretty decent.

Almost all of the jobs I am considering are remote these days. It's amazing the difference that COVID made in that respect. From almost zero position titles showing "remote", to almost every position stating it, or at least indicating it's possible in the description. Amazing how fast things can shift.

And yeah, from the salaries I am seeing for a Customer Success Manager role, they aren't very close to what I was making before as a Sr. Account Manager (wow!), but if I can get away from quarterly quota mania which almost all sales roles employ, I think I will be much more productive, and also will enjoy my work more. I will be happy to take that hit (especially since I have not made any serious money in about 4 years).

"Put my three kids through college" money is what I am talking about here.

[Kasey Chang]

I'm applying to be a delivery coordinator (junior dispatcher) at the local Food Bank. I believe I have the experience for it. We shall see.

I'm also applying for a remote tech support position. But I'm been striking out with almost all tech support positions. I can't even get a PHONE BANK position a year ago, strangely. Not sure why they rejected me. I spoke perfect English and have a calm demeanor and all that.

[gilraen]

I'm also applying for a remote tech support position. But I'm been striking out with almost all tech support positions. I can't even get a PHONE BANK position a year ago, strangely. Not sure why they rejected me. I spoke perfect English and have a calm demeanor and all that.

You need to simplify your resume when you are applying to tech support. When you tell them you are full-stack developer (or even just a software developer, or present yourself as one), that just screams "I'm only applying for your job because I can't get hired as a developer, and I'll be gone the moment something better comes along".

[RMC]

I'm also applying for a remote tech support position. But I'm been striking out with almost all tech support positions. I can't even get a PHONE BANK position a year ago, strangely. Not sure why they rejected me. I spoke perfect English and have a calm demeanor and all that.

You need to simplify your resume when you are applying to tech support. When you tell them you are full-stack developer (or even just a software developer, or present yourself as one), that just screams "I'm only applying for your job because I can't get hired as a developer, and I'll be gone the moment something better comes along".

Yeah, I throw overqualified resume's into the trashcan, and don't even interview them.

[Carpet_pissr]

I'm also applying for a remote tech support position. But I'm been striking out with almost all tech support positions. I can't even get a PHONE BANK position a year ago, strangely. Not sure why they rejected me. I spoke perfect English and have a calm demeanor and all that.

You need to simplify your resume when you are applying to tech support. When you tell them you are full-stack developer (or even just a software developer, or present yourself as one), that just screams "I'm only applying for your job because I can't get hired as a developer, and I'll be gone the moment something better comes along".

Yeah, I throw overqualified resume's into the trashcan, and don't even interview them.

Why, specifically? Afraid they will ask too much money? Or accept the lower than they are used to pay, and continually be unhappy with it?

I for one, am at a point in my career where I would happily accept a more junior position than what I did for 17 years. I'm happy to take the $$ hit, and can assure anyone that I would do it with a lot more success and enthusiasm than a similar role to what I had.

Now if they see my resume and immediately deep six it for being overqualified, that is going to be a problem!

[RMC]

I'm also applying for a remote tech support position. But I'm been striking out with almost all tech support positions. I can't even get a PHONE BANK position a year ago, strangely. Not sure why they rejected me. I spoke perfect English and have a calm demeanor and all that.

You need to simplify your resume when you are applying to tech support. When you tell them you are full-stack developer (or even just a software developer, or present yourself as one), that just screams "I'm only applying for your job because I can't get hired as a developer, and I'll be gone the moment something better comes along".

Yeah, I throw overqualified resume's into the trashcan, and don't even interview them.

Why, specifically? Afraid they will ask too much money? Or accept the lower than they are used to pay, and continually be unhappy with it?

I for one, am at a point in my career where I would happily accept a more junior position than what I did for 17 years. I'm happy to take the $$ hit, and can assure anyone that I would do it with a lot more success and enthusiasm than a similar role to what I had.

Now if they see my resume and immediately deep six it for being overqualified, that is going to be a problem!

If they are applying for an entry level position with credentials for sr leadership? I am just bringing them in to lose them in a short period of time. If I don't have enough applicants, sure I will bring them in and talk to them, but almost always they are looking for a foothold and want to go elsewhere. I don't have the time to train someone who is going to leave in 90 days. When I was a new manager, I would bring in those type of people and get some nice hand shakes that they would stay for at least a year, all gentlemans agreements, but none of them stayed even six months. And some even left our organiztion, so not even climbing higher up within my organization so some of the training would be preserved.

So, I might lose out on some good candidates, but I have been burned a lot. Heck, in one notable case, I had to go and get approval to hire them because they wanted higher $$, they left prior to 90 days. So I don't do that anymore, for the most part.

[Jeff V]

Yeah, I throw overqualified resume's into the trashcan, and don't even interview them.

And this is why I'm approaching 2 years without a job.

[RMC]

Yeah, I throw overqualified resume's into the trashcan, and don't even interview them.

And this is why I'm approaching 2 years without a job.

Yeah, that is most likely true. I hate to admit it, but it is one of my more easy ways to lower the number of applicants.

[malchior]

The massive volume. Our workforce needs to grow significantly, including in recruiting staff. Tech recruiters are in nearly as much demand as tech talent. Interestingly the actual interviews today are not all that different than what I went through 20 years ago

I spend about 5 hours a week conducting interviews for my clients. I'm conducting an hour long one this evening. The ability to find talent is the first hurdle. Then you have to evaluate the candidates and get them through a hiring pipeline. It is overwhelming many of my high tech clients at the moment.

[Kasey Chang]

I do NOT mention full-stack webdev or even other qualifications UNLESS they specifically mention programming or scripting needed.

The problem is more like... I can't even get a job tutoring kids on programming.

[gilraen]

I do NOT mention full-stack webdev or even other qualifications UNLESS they specifically mention programming or scripting needed.

It's on your LinkedIn profile, though.

[Kasey Chang]

I do NOT mention full-stack webdev or even other qualifications UNLESS they specifically mention programming or scripting needed.

It's on your LinkedIn profile, though.

That's the problem when I apply to large variety of positions, INCLUDING those in tech.