How is your career going?

[Carpet_pissr]

Hmmm, now I am starting to question my IMO very professional, non-greedy counter offer, which I sent (email) late Friday. Have heard nothing back, not even confirmation or recognition that it was received.

Slightly redacted version below for some feedback to see if anyone finds this objectionable enough (or presumptuous, use whatever word you feel is appropriate) to ghost me. Note that I have been in almost constant contact with the HR person and others for a few weeks before this...texting, emailing back and forth, calls, video chats, etc...pretty responsive on both sides). Note also that if you think the tone is very informal, it's because our tone has been very much like this to date, on both sides (maybe even moreso).

Hi hiring person's first name,

Just wanted to follow up to our earlier call and clarify some things we touched on.

First, thank you again for the offer. I am quite interested in working with you guys and I think we would be a great fit for each other.

Second, regarding your base salary offer vs my request for an additional $10K (<-this is worded slightly differently in the email), hopefully the following will shed some light on my reasoning: I bring quite a bit of experience for an inside sales role, which is typically considered to be more of a junior position. I also offer the following skills: three languages, extensive CRM experience, viz tools experience, outside sales experience, presentation and training experience and a large global network of contacts in many different industries (including some in food and beverage).

Obviously, I don't expect to have the same base salary as my previous outside sales role, I'm just looking for a compromise level considering the above. I'm a quick and avid learner, and while I am new to the ingredients industry, the skills needed for the role will certainly transfer.

Finally, at my previous employer I had 5 weeks of PTO per year given my tenure, so the offered 3 weeks would be quite a step back. Would you consider 4 weeks as a compromise considering my experience?

Thanks again for all your time, and I look forward to your response. Have a great weekend!

CP

I think I will send an email to "confirm receipt" today. One full business day plus a few hours is enough time to wait for a response to something like this I would think, right? If this were a seasoned HR person or hiring manager, I would strongly suspect they are trying to ice me down to make me sweat a bit, give them some leverage on the final negotiation, and so I would be less worried. But I don't get that sense from this...kid. She's a pretty straight talker, and doesn't seem to play the typical hiring games that I've read about.

[malchior]

Not my career but figured I'd vent about my wife's situation. She recently (last June) went to a new chemical manufacturing job as Director of Quality. She rebuilt their whole QA lab department from scratch and completed a migration to a new QA system. She fixed the lab's reputation with the local chemical engineering schools because previous managers burned interns. She was able to fill positions that'd been open for years. At their holiday party I heard nothing but praise for turning around the ship. She was keeping production running (she has a background and would help out). That's all she heard. Praise.

Then they got bought. Her boss had kept it from her but it was in the works when she was hired. She got called one random night to meet the boss at a local diner. He sprang the news and asked her to sign a retention letter on the spot. It was a decent amount to stay through the end of March. This was December. Through the first few months they've had limited meetings but they kept talking about decisions were being made to either keep it independent or integrate. Come 4/1 her boss calls her again random time on a Saturday and tells her to call him back. She tries but never gets him.

The reason was clear because he was delivering bad news but trying to sell it as an opportunity. (I think he might have a bonus target for retaining staff at this point - because as you'll see this makes no sense). They're integrating and her boss was a previous owner and sounds like he is exiting in the next 3-6 months if my sense is right. All her peer Directors got lateral moves or promotions. He relayed mostly positive feedback but he did hear that they didn't think she was 'confident' as a leader. I love vague feedback like that. Is it coded sexism? Is it a stab at competence? Who knows! It's not all that actionable.

He then went on to say he didn't want her stuck under the acquiring companies Director of Quality. He said he'd like to help move her to a line role supporting sales. Wtf? I've never heard anything like that. In this scenario, they almost always offer a buy out. They think she is going to take a big demotion? She was a Quality Manager at her last job so this was the next step up.

I'm actually at a loss about what advice to give her because this is sort of way off the M&A playbook. Worse they gave her a spreadsheet with the new salary information in the new company for her team, and her title was listed as Quality Manager. (News to her!)

Ugh. I mean the most likely reason for this was she was brand new to the organization and never got really established pre-merger. The function at the acquiring company sounds pretty robust. The typical M&A redundancy/synergy line but that'd be a clear case to offer her a buyout. Instead they are hinting at a steep demotion? And several people reached out last week and yesterday telling her not to bolt? That's a clear indication the street knew she was being hung out to dry. She clearly was left out of the loop. Not surprising since none of her peers routinely came into the office. They're all at home or traveling. In any case the situation is weird as hell. I survived 10 mergers at one company and I can't figure out what is actually happening.

Obviously, this is a clear case to GTFO and not accept the demotion. She is strong technical Director and they want to stick her in a sales support role - sorta like a pre-sales engineer. That's ridiculous 15 years into a career with consistent managerial growth. I just feel terrible for her because she was busting ass for them and now she's wondering what she did wrong. Nothing. Sometimes it's just bad timing but this feels gross on top for some reason.

[malchior]

I think I will send an email to "confirm receipt" today. One full business day plus a few hours is enough time to wait for a response to something like this I would think, right? If this were a seasoned HR person or hiring manager, I would strongly suspect they are trying to ice me down to make me sweat a bit, give them some leverage on the final negotiation, and so I would be less worried. But I don't get that sense from this...kid. She's a pretty straight talker, and doesn't seem to play the typical hiring games that I've read about.

I would expect a response in at least a couple of days saying - we're looking at it. An offer is usually implicitly time conditional. I didn't see anything objectionable and the PTO amount in particular might very well be a policy issue which would be a straight answer while they get back to you on the other item. Maybe someone isn't available but you'd usually get some indication of that. Most places are rushing to sign candidates ASAP before they get snapped up somewhere else.

[Carpet_pissr]

Is it coded sexism?

the most likely reason for this was she was brand new to the organization

Probably yes to both, and if you made me guess based on what you wrote, moreso the latter.

1. How big was the company when bought? How big is buying company? Titles are funny things, and they vary wildly, but seem to...standardize the bigger the company. 100 or less employees? "Who wants to be a Sr. VP today?" "Manager" at one company could easily be "Director" at another.
2. Just read the other day that technical sales/sales engineer is one of the highest paying gigs out there. Has she seen the new salary? How does it compare to her old salary? More importantly, would she WANT to do technical sales, or whatever the role is? That would be a huge leap, functionally, from what it sounds like she has been doing.
3. To me, it sounds like she's getting these options BECAUSE of her proven/shown success. I think had she been a less...impressive employee, she might be sitting at home right now. But the current labor market is crazy, so who knows. From the little you wrote, it SOUNDS like they actually want to keep her, and this isn't some nasty ploy or fake for political reasons, or whatnot.

[Carpet_pissr]

Well, boys and girls, this is what happens when you make slight career pivots I guess (switching industries in my case, from tech to...manufacturing). They are using that pivot to apparently give them negotiating leverage. I bet if I had decided to stay in tech/software sales, this would probably not be happening right now (or I could just bounce and accept a different offer). A smarter person would have a couple of other tech jobs at least simmering, so I could have that in my pocket, even though I fear/loathe 100% remote work (which is most likely what it would be).

HR answer to my counter offer of more base and more PTO:

"I apologize for the late email. Unfortunately the offer is as it stands at the moment. Due to the level of experience you have in our industry(emphasis is mine), I would need to start you out at the offered base due to the ranges we currently have set. However, as you continue to show us your skills and abilities, we will be reviewing salaries.

Our policy is also that everyone starting gets 3 weeks of vacation. I do hope to be able to be flexible in the future, but at this time this is the current policy in place. I am sorry we could not come to a better agreement but we do hope you will still consider the offer as it stands. We are a growing company so there will be many positive changes as we continue to grow and expand our market and sales. It is a unique opportunity to come in at the ground level of the business and be a part of the founding team!"

I will still counter once more for $5K more (or for a signing bonus), and drop the PTO request, but in hindsight, the better tactic here would have been ONLY counter with the base (leaving the PTO out of it) initially. If I had gotten that base increase, then ask for the PTO as an aside, not expecing to get it (Oh, byt the way, I used to get....). Or I don't get the base increase, and ask for the PTO as a consolation prize. ("That is unfortunate about the base...considering that is not possible, would you be flexible on the PTO amount?")

What's vexing me a bit is this relative newbie, in the very first convo, revealed the salary ranges without me really prodding much, and during a later conversation, when I asked if they offered signing bonuses, she said something to the effect of: "we have offered those in the past, but if I were you, I would negotiate the base salary" !! WTF man. I guess I will be asking for a signing bonus!

Very sure the disconnect here is HER, the HR person, answering my questions, vs her then going to the owner and getting The Answer.

Sorry to hog the thread here guys, most of this is just me putting thoughts on digital paper. My drama should be over soon.

[stimpy]

Let's say you're asking for $100,000 a year.
10% increase is $10,000.
5% increase is $5,000.
An extra week of vacation is about $1950.

Anytime an employee of mine asks for more vacation as a negotiation, I almost always agree.

[malchior]

Is it coded sexism?

the most likely reason for this was she was brand new to the organization

Probably yes to both, and if you made me guess based on what you wrote, moreso the latter.

1. How big was the company when bought? How big is buying company? Titles are funny things, and they vary wildly, but seem to...standardize the bigger the company. 100 or less employees? "Who wants to be a Sr. VP today?" "Manager" at one company could easily be "Director" at another.

Yeah that's been accounted for. She is doing what would widely be recognized as a Technical Director work at the size of company that she worked at. The other side of the transaction is similarly sized. It was more merger than acquisition in the sense the buyer is more like 60% to 40% of the size. The incumbent Director would have equivalent skills. I think it's more that he is a known quantity and built that quality program.

That's why this is a more likely a redundancy thing. They don't have a role for her in the merged org. Which sucks but is the way of things. You talk that out and figure out a resolution. Which is 100% not what it happening here. She is being treated fairly poorly compared to the way I've seen other mergers handled. Whatever decisions are made get communicated in a cohesive way with information. Instead, it was rumor miils, pockets of information, inconsistent information, etc.

In that sense it really feels like leaving is a good option because the new leadership sounds...like it's pretty bad. Like 'The Office' level competence but without the whimsy. This is no way to run a merger if you want to keep people around. I'd take a strong guess none of these folks have ever pulled off a deal this size. These were no mom & pop shops (my guess at revenue would be combined $400M!) but I guess it wasn't big enough in their minds to bring in management consulting experts. It shows.

2. Just read the other day that technical sales/sales engineer is one of the highest paying gigs out there. Has she seen the new salary? How does it compare to her old salary? More importantly, would she WANT to do technical sales, or whatever the role is? That would be a huge leap, functionally, from what it sounds like she has been doing.

She has no interest and expressed no interest. It was just thrown out there as something she could do. This is all stuff pushed on her.

3. To me, it sounds like she's getting these options BECAUSE of her proven/shown success. I think had she been a less...impressive employee, she might be sitting at home right now. But the current labor market is crazy, so who knows. From the little you wrote, it SOUNDS like they actually want to keep her, and this isn't some nasty ploy or fake for political reasons, or whatnot.

Maybe but it's still bad for her career. What happens when her boss leaves? She has no insight into post-merger org or timeframes. It seems pretty likely they don't want her departing in the middle of the merger.

The good thing is that the big trade show is in less than a month. I would bet money she comes away from that with a solid job lead. It is how she got this job. And her last two jobs. We'll see.

[coopasonic]

I have never in my life countered an offer in any way. I have turned one down. I could probably make more.

[Carpet_pissr]

I have never in my life countered an offer in any way. I have turned one down. I could probably make more.

Well I guess I'm doing it enough for both of us then, because I just countered again! Also, dude, if you have never countered an offer, I assure you you could be making more.

HR seemed pretty adamant about the base being firm (though I suspect this is coming directly from owner at this point), so this might actualy be a step too far, but I feel justified (and backed it up with reasons why).

I may have already said it upthread, but if *I* were a hiring manager looking for someone in sales, and they didn't counter or try to negotiate (and well)? It would at least give me pause and make me wonder if I was making a mistake. I will keep telling myself that until they walk.

I think the key is being professional, grateful (for the offer) and confident in your worth vs just sounding greedy and being pushy and combative or petulant/whiny.

I guess we'll find out soon enough!

My new projections:
15% they walk
15% they agree to my lowered ask
70% firm no

I'm thinking if I get another firm no, then next step will be asking for a signing bonus, but we'll see what tone is of the next email. If I sense annoyance, I will adjust accordingly.

[LordMortis]

I have never in my life countered an offer in any way. I have turned one down. I could probably make more.

I never countered an offer until I told my current employer I'm quitting. I asked for the moon and the stars and they gave me the moon. If I commit to working more, better, harder, they probably would have given the stars as well, but my tank is so low that was never happening. I was kinda hoping they'd just let me go, but here I am, still doing a half assed job just like I told them I would. No complaints yet, but we'll see what happens when the deliverables are due at the end of the month and I'm not done. Still having a paycheck is nice, though. I still have no idea what's going to be up for health care when I turn in the laptop. The moon is still on the table there as we talked about them providing health care if I stayed available to work as needed, but it's not in writing and I didn't commit them because I didn't want to be committed to being a contractor for the rest of the year.

[Kraken]

I have never in my life countered an offer in any way. I have turned one down. I could probably make more.

Well I guess I'm doing it enough for both of us then, because I just countered again! Also, dude, if you have never countered an offer, I assure you you could be making more.

Back in my hiring days, my first offer was always 10-20% below what I was prepared to pay (depending on how much I wanted the person). Very few people ever came back with counteroffers.

Your negotiating position is never stronger than when a prospective employer has decided they want you, and they still haven't discovered your flaws.

Good luck with your haggling.

[dbt1949]

I could never haggle either but my dad lived to haggle. I remember once we went to check out a car he was interested in. It was like $3200. He haggled for an hour to get it down $100. I asked him why and he said he just made $100 an hour. This was 50 years ago.
I think the main reason the guy dropped a hundred was just to get rid of my dad.

[Carpet_pissr]

I think the main reason the guy dropped a hundred was just to get rid of my dad.

My Dad still does this at 82. His tactic has been and continues to be: badger them until they yield.

He takes it to a new level. If you’ve ever been ‘iced’ buying a car at a dealership (where they keep you waiting forever so you’ll sign anything by the time you talk to the finance guy), my Dad does a ‘reverse ice’.

He’ll stay and wear them down for half a day or more if need be. It’s both awesome and horrific to behold.

[Kraken]

I think the main reason the guy dropped a hundred was just to get rid of my dad.

My Dad still does this at 82. His tactic has been and continues to be: badger them until they yield.

He takes it to a new level. If you’ve ever been ‘iced’ buying a car at a dealership (where they keep you waiting forever so you’ll sign anything by the time you talk to the finance guy), my Dad does a ‘reverse ice’.

He’ll stay and wear them down for half a day or more if need be. It’s both awesome and horrific to behold.

Heh my dad generally leaned in this direction; he and my mom were just cheap. They loved to tell stories about taking advantage of merchants. I called them on that once when I was a merchant, and they were contrite, but it didn't stick.

Working as a buyer made me comfortable haggling with salespeople. Both of you want to get to Yes, and neither of you led with your real offer. I enjoy sparring with a good salesperson when I'm spending somebody else's money.

[Zarathud]

My wife went into the Honda dealer for her first car every week for 6 months. She would look at the car, then asked if they would take her price. And leave.

Eventually the dealer wanted the sale enough to have the papers ready.

[Carpet_pissr]

My wife went into the Honda dealer for her first car every week for 6 months. She would look at the car, then asked if they would take her price. And leave.

Eventually the dealer wanted the sale enough to have the papers ready.

Try that in the current market. They would probably shoot spitballs and mock her mercilessly if she tried that today.

OTOH, 24 visits times how many minutes or hours spent each trip?! I assume she wasn't working at the time? And/or completely poo-poo's the idea that time is money, valuing your time, et al.

[coopasonic]

My wife went into the Honda dealer for her first car every week for 6 months. She would look at the car, then asked if they would take her price. And leave.

Eventually the dealer wanted the sale enough to have the papers ready.

Try that in the current market. They would probably shoot spitballs and mock her mercilessly if she tried that today.

OTOH, 24 visits times how many minutes or hours spent each trip?! I assume she wasn't working at the time? And/or completely poo-poo's the idea that time is money, valuing your time, et al.

She may have counted it as entertainment.

[Carpet_pissr]

My wife went into the Honda dealer for her first car every week for 6 months. She would look at the car, then asked if they would take her price. And leave.

Eventually the dealer wanted the sale enough to have the papers ready.

Try that in the current market. They would probably shoot spitballs and mock her mercilessly if she tried that today.

OTOH, 24 visits times how many minutes or hours spent each trip?! I assume she wasn't working at the time? And/or completely poo-poo's the idea that time is money, valuing your time, et al.

She may have counted it as entertainment.

Ha! Pretty sure my Dad does, or at LEAST a personal challenge that cannot go unaccepted.

[Carpet_pissr]

My new projections:
15% they walk
15% they agree to my lowered ask
70% firm no

I'm thinking if I get another firm no, then next step will be asking for a signing bonus, but we'll see what tone is of the next email. If I sense annoyance, I will adjust accordingly.

70% it is.

Damn.

Lesson learned: kinda hard to negotiate with real oomph with no other offers. Had I been smart instead of hyperfocusing on this one job, I should have been applying to more jobs, if only for leverage for THIS job...but honestly at that time, I didn't think I would need it!

I suspect what happened was they realized I didn't have other offers (I never once mentioned it), the CEO got directly involved (because the tone shifted pretty dramatically at the end), or they got a few more acceptable candidate applications.

Even I hesitate to take what really should be one more step, which would be at least asking for a signing bonus. With so much back and forth, things are starting to get a bit weird and not nearly as jovial as they started out, and that's not a good sign for either side.

So I guess I will just fold completely, take it, and hope they follow through on the "quick promoting" that they almost promised me. If not, hopefully I can bounce back more easily into a similar industry I was in, WITH a job this time (which itself is a at least a bit of leverage).

Thanks for listening! Signing off now and making some space for others since I feel I've hogged the board for far too long.

[Unagi]

You may just be up against 'no wiggle room'. There isn't always more to be had.

[coopasonic]

Once you get rolling and get your game back, you'll be more comfortable talking to people and other opportunities will likely arise.

[Zarathud]

She was a college student who learned how to be insistent. Her parents were former Catholic clergy and administrators.

She’s weaponized being an educated middle aged white woman as an advocate for others. She can get city government to tell her how to game the system for prioritizing filling street potholes (via a telephone/email tree).

Her current entertainment is forcing our health insurer to pay denied claims. It’s a matter of principles.

[dfs]

Let's say you're asking for $100,000 a year.
10% increase is $10,000.
5% increase is $5,000.
An extra week of vacation is about $1950.

Anytime an employee of mine asks for more vacation as a negotiation, I almost always agree.

What's funny about that is that when I was hired I went from 10 weeks of PTO to 3. (Don't ask it was a faculty contract)
The new company told me that they didn't have the ability to negotiate on PTO.
I told them fine, but in order to accept the lower PTO I would just work an 80% FTE and take the same salary.
They agreed.
Blew my mind.
Everybody left the room happy.

[RMC]

I think the main reason the guy dropped a hundred was just to get rid of my dad.

My Dad still does this at 82. His tactic has been and continues to be: badger them until they yield.

He takes it to a new level. If you’ve ever been ‘iced’ buying a car at a dealership (where they keep you waiting forever so you’ll sign anything by the time you talk to the finance guy), my Dad does a ‘reverse ice’.

He’ll stay and wear them down for half a day or more if need be. It’s both awesome and horrific to behold.

If they leave me sitting for any amount of time, I get up and leave and go to a different dealership. If I really want the car, I go close to closing, and argue the price, that way everyone wants to get out of there, and it usually means an easier time of negotiating. But I hate all that crap, it's why I try to stay with the same dealer/salesperson so they know what I want, and we can deal quick and I sign and leave. But had to leave a couple of dealerships because they got complacent, and wanted to play games because I think they thought I was an easy mark..Nope, just will not buy and go next door.

[Carpet_pissr]

They don’t even need their silly/infuriating tricks now because they have 10 people lined up waiting to buy (and bidding thousands over MSRP) the 1-3 models they actually have in stock.

You can still ‘leave’ as a strategy I guess, and they will say ‘next!’ and watch you walk.

Effects of supply/demand>your savviness as a shopper in this market.

I’m not even sure if paying cash makes any difference right now. Having a trade in probably helps massively, neither of which I can do currently.

[RMC]

They don’t even need their silly/infuriating tricks now because they have 10 people lined up waiting to buy (and bidding thousands over MSRP) the 1-3 models they actually have in stock.

You can still ‘leave’ as a strategy I guess, and they will say ‘next!’ and watch you walk.

Effects of supply/demand>your savviness as a shopper in this market.

I’m not even sure if paying cash makes any difference right now. Having a trade in probably helps massively, neither of which I can do currently.

True, but I am not in the market now, and will not be at the mercy of them hopefully when I next go to buy a car.

[Kasey Chang]

Well, at least DoorDash / Bbot is prompt... Rejection in 48 hours.

The weird ones are the ones that gave a phone interview, then just went ghost mode, not even a rejection notice.

[Formix]

I had a similar experience. I was up for what seemed like a dream job, fully remote, and there were multiple job openings they liked me for. Video interviews all the way up to the US head, and he said "we want you on the bus we just need to decide what seat". Then I get ghosted. After several attempts to reach someone, I get a relatively generic, thanks, but we got lots of great applicants, one of which was better than you. Maybe they just didn't want a 50 something new hire . . .

[Jeff V]

Maybe they just didn't want a 50 something new hire . . .

This is why I'm approaching 2 years of unemployment -- despite numerous interviews with companies for positions I was in every way highly qualified for.

[Kasey Chang]

Same here.

Latest trend in tech support jobs in SF: you must have your own car, so you can go to client sites when we want you to. Doesn't look like there's any parking or gas compensation though.

[Isgrimnur]

Same here.

Latest trend in tech support jobs in SF: you must have your own car, so you can go to client sites when we want you to. Doesn't look like there's any parking or gas compensation though.

They're deductible on federal taxes.

[coopasonic]

Today I "celebrate" 20 years with my current employer. A rather uncommon thing in tech. Before coming here I'd never worked anywhere else full time for more than two years.

I am still trying to make a selection from the "awards" they offer for the anniversary. jewelry, watches, luggage, exercise equipment, small appliances all in the $5-600 range.... meh all the way. I've considered selecting based on resale value and ease of resale (damn wish they offered a PS5!) but that feels wrong. Apple AirPods Max are the current top contender but maybe the exercise bike, but not sure where I'd put it or if I would be more likely to use it than the treadmill. I am guessing it doesn't come with a gift receipt.

[LawBeefaroni]

My counterpart at the mothership is leaving and I was just assigned most of their responsibilities. In line for a decent temp bonus and possibly a level up. But shit is getting real.

Today I "celebrate" 20 years with my current employer. A rather uncommon thing in tech. Before coming here I'd never worked anywhere else full time for more than two years.

I am still trying to make a selection from the "awards" they offer for the anniversary. jewelry, watches, luggage, exercise equipment, small appliances all in the $5-600 range.... meh all the way. I've considered selecting based on resale value and ease of resale (damn wish they offered a PS5!) but that feels wrong. Apple AirPods Max are the current top contender but maybe the exercise bike, but not sure where I'd put it or if I would be more likely to use it than the treadmill. I am guessing it doesn't come with a gift receipt.

I got sick of min/maxing those things and just pick one as a gift for someone else. Got my BIL a watch this last time but it's still sitting in my closet because we haven't seen each other for a year due to COVID. I got reset from 20yrs when I moved 6 years ago but the gifts here are a tad better.

[Carpet_pissr]

Maybe they just didn't want a 50 something new hire . . .

Just heard on NPR yesterday: the brain continues to grow and develop until age 29, I think, then a VERY slight cognitive decline begins. At (after?) 49, the decline accelerates significantly. I was paying pretty close attention because I'm 49 and....wait what was I saying? Shit, I forgot. Something about bubble gum ice cream.

[coopasonic]

My counterpart at the mothership is leaving and I was just assigned most of their responsibilities. In line for a decent temp bonus and possibly a level up. But shit is getting real.

Today I "celebrate" 20 years with my current employer. A rather uncommon thing in tech. Before coming here I'd never worked anywhere else full time for more than two years.

I am still trying to make a selection from the "awards" they offer for the anniversary. jewelry, watches, luggage, exercise equipment, small appliances all in the $5-600 range.... meh all the way. I've considered selecting based on resale value and ease of resale (damn wish they offered a PS5!) but that feels wrong. Apple AirPods Max are the current top contender but maybe the exercise bike, but not sure where I'd put it or if I would be more likely to use it than the treadmill. I am guessing it doesn't come with a gift receipt.

I got sick of min/maxing those things and just pick one as a gift for someone else. Got my BIL a watch this last time but it's still sitting in my closet because we haven't seen each other for a year due to COVID. I got reset from 20yrs when I moved 6 years ago but the gifts here are a tad better.

Yeah once I decided I didn't want any of it, I reviewed it with my wife in mind and then my kids, and then I showed her all the options. Going beyond my immediate family I think most folks would be pissed if I gave them a $500+ gift. I appreciate the thought, but a less restrictive catalog would be nice.

[Isgrimnur]

small appliances all in the $5-600 range

Nothing says gratitude like $25-30/year.

[RMC]

My counterpart at the mothership is leaving and I was just assigned most of their responsibilities. In line for a decent temp bonus and possibly a level up. But shit is getting real.

Today I "celebrate" 20 years with my current employer. A rather uncommon thing in tech. Before coming here I'd never worked anywhere else full time for more than two years.

I am still trying to make a selection from the "awards" they offer for the anniversary. jewelry, watches, luggage, exercise equipment, small appliances all in the $5-600 range.... meh all the way. I've considered selecting based on resale value and ease of resale (damn wish they offered a PS5!) but that feels wrong. Apple AirPods Max are the current top contender but maybe the exercise bike, but not sure where I'd put it or if I would be more likely to use it than the treadmill. I am guessing it doesn't come with a gift receipt.

I got sick of min/maxing those things and just pick one as a gift for someone else. Got my BIL a watch this last time but it's still sitting in my closet because we haven't seen each other for a year due to COVID. I got reset from 20yrs when I moved 6 years ago but the gifts here are a tad better.

Yeah once I decided I didn't want any of it, I reviewed it with my wife in mind and then my kids, and then I showed her all the options. Going beyond my immediate family I think most folks would be pissed if I gave them a $500+ gift. I appreciate the thought, but a less restrictive catalog would be nice.

I think my 10 yeaar gift was a Ninja Blender, it's what I choose because the kids like to make smoothies. Can't remember what 15 year gift was. I would just assume to take money, but gifts are free, so hate to look down upon it. Some people really enjoy what they get.

[stimpy]

I think most folks would be pissed if I gave them a $500+ gift.

Who would be pissed at that?
Hell, let me see the catalog. I'll pick something and pay for the shipping!!

[Carpet_pissr]

I think most folks would be pissed if I gave them a $500+ gift.

Who would be pissed at that?
Hell, let me see the catalog. I'll pick something and pay for the shipping!!

You might be surprised. When I was making considerably more than I am making now ($0), I was pretty generous with gifts to my family (Mom, Dad, sister, brother) around Christmas and birthdays. I even remember telling them when I would give them stuff, (solid, legit loot, not a $10 gift card for Target), that I was only doing it because 1. I wanted to, and was fortunate enough to be ABLE to, and 2. the salad days likely wouldn't last forever, so kind of a "let me do this while I can" situation (prescience FTW! )

Still, I could tell it made them uncomfortable because they usually didn't get me anything (at least my brother didn't), or if they did, it was just a token something, or maybe something small that I mentioned I liked that they had. Note that neither one of them was hurting for money at all, which would have probably made a difference (would NOT have given such nice gifts in that case).

Wildcard: I have perhaps an uncommon philosophy about gift giving, where I am not really into giving gifts on certain dates (I do try to confirm to most of socety's view on this, but don't always succeed). I much prefer to give MEANINGFUL and thoughtful (useful) gifts that someone actually wants (or needs and didn;t know it, those are the best!). So mostly in my family's case, I might get them an amazing something that they really wanted or could use, for their Christmas present, but maybe nothing the next (or two!) Christmas (because I didn't have a specific, meaningful present in mind).

[Formix]

Maybe they just didn't want a 50 something new hire . . .

Just heard on NPR yesterday: the brain continues to grow and develop until age 29, I think, then a VERY slight cognitive decline begins. At (after?) 49, the decline accelerates significantly. I was paying pretty close attention because I'm 49 and....wait what was I saying? Shit, I forgot. Something about bubble gum ice cream.

If I'm being honest, I have noticed this decline already. Mushroom tea (no, not that kind) seems to help. I was telling someone in the office just the other day, when I got started in IT, everyone wore onions on their belts.