Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

[malchior]

I just dropped a clip of Noah Trevor in the Death Watch thread talking at the WH Correspondent's Dinner. It aligns very much with the fantasy thinking we're seeing and opened with him lambasting the event in general about COVID. Obviously he still did it but I took it as an apology for the trade off for the opportunity to maybe embarrass these folks into doing their jobs. Still seeing the room *PACKED* with Washington's most powerful people? Gross. Embarrassing. Enraging. Too many things to process.

[Blackhawk]

What happens when there aren’t “other” options? The “ideal” option here isn’t a pristine medical facility with a clean OR (to borrow the MASH analogy).

The guys in the tent are being asked to where gloves and a mask, and their response is “fuck you, we can’t do that.”

You’re asking Smoove for other options on how to manage a pandemic. There aren’t any. We won’t do *any* of them, because we decided that there isn’t a pandemic.

Which may be what it is. Accept that our response now isn’t to do some other, less optimal solution. It’s to do nothing.

But there are other options. There aren't great options, but if A) we're not going to mask, and B) we're not going to be fully vaccinated, and C) we're not going to lock things down, what else can we do? We either come up with something that might make a difference for some (because all isn't interested), or the medical professionals just quit.

I wouldn't blame them for quitting. Some have.

[Max Peck]

What happens when there aren’t “other” options? The “ideal” option here isn’t a pristine medical facility with a clean OR (to borrow the MASH analogy).

The guys in the tent are being asked to where gloves and a mask, and their response is “fuck you, we can’t do that.”

You’re asking Smoove for other options on how to manage a pandemic. There aren’t any. We won’t do *any* of them, because we decided that there isn’t a pandemic.

Which may be what it is. Accept that our response now isn’t to do some other, less optimal solution. It’s to do nothing.

But there are other options. There aren't great options, but if A) we're not going to mask, and B) we're not going to be fully vaccinated, and C) we're not going to lock things down, what else can we do? We either come up with something that might make a difference for some (because all isn't interested), or the medical professionals just quit.

I wouldn't blame them for quitting. Some have.

What are these other options that you can see but public health professionals cannot?

[Blackhawk]

What are these other options that you can see but public health professionals cannot?

That hasn't been the discussion. We're not suggesting that we know better than them, or that we have the answers. The discussion has been that the public health professionals are so focused on the ideal solution that they're avoiding any other options. Given that the ideal solutions are no longer possible, pushing for them is wasted energy. Masks, lockdowns, and vaccination aren't getting much higher than they are now.

And the public is like petulant children - the harder you push them to eat their dinner, the less likely they are to eat it. Pushing people on those issues has, due to the obstinate idiocy of the public, become counterproductive. The more you say 'mask' and 'stay home', the more people will do the opposite. And if, somehow, the government were to mandate it? It would essentially guarantee that the opposite would happen. People would gather just for the sake of flaunting their contempt. So, yeah - pursuing the best course of action is now, possibly, the worst course of action.

To put it another way, Plan A is awesome, and Plan A would solve the problem. But Plan A can't be implemented. At all. So we need to scrap plan A and start looking for Plan B. I'm guessing that's part of what's behind some of the CDC's choices.

And to be clear, the public health professionals have kicked ass through this. It is the rest of society that has repeatedly knocked them down and kicked sand in their face that has gotten us here. And those of us pursuing a more responsible approach to the problem hate what's happening almost as much as they do.

[Zaxxon]

What BH said.

[Smoove_B]

Just to clarify, I don't think we've been providing *A* singular solution - we've provided a spectrum of options. Sure, early on things were rather binary, but since then we've advocated for data-driven policy making and response. We've advocated and encouraged a full range of options. Instead we've been told anything is an assault on freedom, so continue to tell us what you'd recommend but we're going to challenge anything you require in a court.

Case in point, let's look to NY state where residents were assured months ago when the mask mandate were being relaxed that the elected officials would "follow the science" and that when cases and hospitalizations increased, mask mandates would come back - especially for schools.

Well, over the last two weeks both have occurred and NY state residents are not surprisingly asking about the mask mandates that were supposed to come back.

Masks? Come back?



There aren't other solutions - unless you want us to propose caging people in their homes or apartment buildings. As I said earlier, Plan B is eugenics - that's what we're doing right now. It's horrific and yet no one cares because everything is "back to normal". Unless you're chronically ill.Or have a kid under 5.

[Max Peck]

I think I'm going to agree to disagree on the issue of public health professionals not pursuing options other than asking people to wear masks and get jabbed. They're certainly not asking for lockdowns AFAIK (China excepted, of course). An example of something else that they've advocated, off the top of my head, is improving ventilation in indoor areas.

In the mean time, I believe I've identified the official Plan B (it covers public health, climate change, politics, you name it):

[Smoove_B]

Just because it made me think of this discussion

https://twitter.com/TRyanGregory/status ... 4661862400

[Zaxxon]

Sad because true.

[Blackhawk]

Perhaps plan B is focusing on those who are trying, and on helping them overcome the dangers imposed by the rest. They want eugenics, fine. We choose the gene.

[malchior]

Eric Adams turn to fail on this. We'll probably be seeing the exact same thing play out since he is starting strong with the 'hospitalizations and deaths remain low' line. That's great until they aren't...then it'll be 'it's too late' to do anything. On a personal note, luckily my wife is at mandatory sales events for her company. The big annual trade show is in NYC this week. She took masks with her but we both expected no one else will mask up.

NY Times

As coronavirus cases continue to rise in New York City, the city entered a higher risk level for the virus on Monday, a troubling reminder that the pandemic is not over and that the virus still has the power to harm New Yorkers.

The city moved into the medium, or yellow, risk category for virus transmission, a development that could trigger the return of public health restrictions, although they are not required.

Mayor Eric Adams, who last month contracted his first known case of the virus, will face difficult decisions over whether to bring back mask and vaccine mandates at a time when he is focused on the city’s economic recovery and workers are returning to offices.

The city is now seeing nearly 2,500 new cases per day, a significant jump from about 600 daily cases in early March. The latest rise, fueled by the highly contagious Omicron subvariant known as BA.2, does not rival the first Omicron surge in December and January, but recorded case levels are as high as they were when the Delta variant swept through the city last year.

What’s more, case levels in New York City, and around the country, are likely much higher than the official statistics because many residents are testing at home, and positive at-home tests are not typically included in official tallies.

Mr. Adams has emphasized that hospitalizations and deaths remain low; there are currently more than 50 new hospitalizations and four or five deaths on average in the city each day. In January, new hospitalizations rose to 1,000 per day, and deaths to more than 120 per day.

[RunningMn9]

Perhaps plan B is focusing on those who are trying, and on helping them overcome the dangers imposed by the rest. They want eugenics, fine. We choose the gene.

You keep saying there are other options and that there’s a plan B. There’s not. The tools at our disposal are distancing, masking, and not going places.

We all said nuts to that, we’re not doing any of that.

Well, that’s it. And that’s ok. We decided that the pandemic is over and that’s that. Might as well embrace it.

[Pyperkub]

Perhaps plan B is focusing on those who are trying, and on helping them overcome the dangers imposed by the rest. They want eugenics, fine. We choose the gene.

You keep saying there are other options and that there’s a plan B. There’s not. The tools at our disposal are distancing, masking, and not going places.

We all said nuts to that, we’re not doing any of that.

Well, that’s it. And that’s ok. We decided that the pandemic is over and that’s that. Might as well embrace it.

And vaccines + a LOT better treatment options.

[Kurth]

First day back to work today. My company is going with the Tuesday-Thursday "anchor days" in the office. There were some logistical hiccups, mostly around a lack of conference rooms and scarcity of tech resupply, but it was great to be back and to see people again.

On the way home, I got alerts from HR that I had been in close contact with two different people today who tested positive for COVID.

[Max Peck]

Journalists from multiple news outlets test positive after White House Correspondents Dinner weekend

Trevor Noah joked about the event becoming a superspreader — and now the cases are rolling in. The annual White House Correspondents Dinner, along with the festivities held in the days before and after it, have led to the inevitable spread of Covid.

In the days since WHCD weekend, reporters and staffers from CNN, ABC News, NBC News, CBS News, Politico, and other participating news organizations have tested positive for the virus. Most notably, ABC's Jon Karl, who shook hands with President Biden and who sat next to Kim Kardashian, has fallen ill, as Politico's Maxwell Tani first reported.

There is no exact data to indicate precisely how many people have caught the virus from the weekend. But, anecdotally speaking, much of Tuesday afternoon seemed to consist of attendees trading text messages and emails about colleagues and friends and people they had seen who had tested positive. That's almost certainly going to continue in the days ahead...

[RunningMn9]

And vaccines + a LOT better treatment options.

We are talking about what we can do from here. “Vaccines and current treatment options” are part of being here. That’s part of the status quo, or of the “we are done with the pandemic” plan.

The people that are going to get vaccinated are vaccinated. The people that aren’t, aren’t. All I was trying to say is that people are criticizing public health officials here for giving “ideal” answers. Public health officials aren’t giving “ideal” answers. They are giving the answers that there are (from here), and people are saying “you can’t give us those answers, we aren’t going to do that, give us the other answers”.

There aren’t other answers. And maybe that’s ok. We seem committed to just rolling the dice and hoping. I wish us luck.

[Smoove_B]

There aren’t other answers. And maybe that’s ok. We seem committed to just rolling the dice and hoping. I wish us luck.

The thing that (still) blows me away is that at least one million people have died. At least. And society collectively is just like...yeah, whatever.

We are completely numb to death and suffering as a society.

[Unagi]

Well, it's finally hit my house. The wife has tested positive, and so I tested (felt a little bit of a cold and a slightly heavy chest) - and yep - I'm positive.

I entirely blame my community. While we are in a great area for compliance, etc... that doesn't even matter anymore. No one has anything they feel they need to comply with. School reports on Staff and Student's covid - and they are consistently about double or more than what they were months ago.

We have two kids, both without symptoms. Both vaccinated... Hoping they don't get it. Our daughter was knocked out with a cold last week, but tested negative - but she came out of her funk about 6 days ago, so I don't think this was from her. More likely it was from the children's theater that my wife attended on Saturday, with an auditorium full of breathers for over 2 hours...

I'm a little pissed, after all the care and trouble I've gone through and held the family to...

[Blackhawk]

Less other answers than other plans. I'm starting to think that this is a long debate topic, or I'm not getting my point across, but I am way too tired to figure out which.

[Zaxxon]

Less other answers than other plans. I'm starting to think that this is a long debate topic, or I'm not getting my point across, but I am way too tired to figure out which.

Same boat here. Not sure why folks think there are no other options. There are always other options.

Meanwhile, in 'our system is fucked up, a tale of many layers,' I'm right now standing inside my local Walgreens (masked!) waiting for our daughter's tamiflu script (we live in fun times--excited it wasn't COVID but is 'only' the flu).

I'm inside during a pandemic because the drive-through is closed due to short staffing. Meanwhile the script isn't ready due to short staffing and the pharmacist disagreeing with the dose prescribed.

The line inside was 6 deep when I got here.

The two folks immediately ahead of me had 1) a script sent to the wrong Walgreens, and 2) a script with a $623 cost to the patient.

While waiting, I consulted with my MD fam along with the CDC, and the doc was correct. So now I'm waiting for no good reason. Inside. During a pandemic. No one else is masked, including the pharmacist.

We so fucked.

[Unagi]

There aren’t other answers. And maybe that’s ok. We seem committed to just rolling the dice and hoping. I wish us luck.

The thing that (still) blows me away is that at least one million people have died. At least. And society collectively is just like...yeah, whatever.

We are completely numb to death and suffering as a society.

Seemingly, most people are now of the opinion (this is the pushback to that sentiment when I deliver it) that death and suffering are basically behind us. We are now at the level of 'influenza' for this virus, and the hospitals can handle it and most everyone will get just a cold.

[RunningMn9]

What are the other options?

[malchior]

\We are now at the level of 'influenza' for this virus, and the hospitals can handle it and most everyone will get just a cold.

Not accurate. Even at the current "low" rate it is still 3 times the rate of a bad flu season. Except it's year round all the time. You could argue the worst flu days are worse than the current COVID day but that's about it. Just as a sanity check this year so far 3200 people have died of the flu. That is what we see in 10 days at the current rate with COVID.

[Daehawk]

Covid's toll in the U.S. reaches a once unfathomable number: 1 million deaths

[Blackhawk]

What are the other options?

Again, I'm not a person who spent years studying this. We appealed to people's compassion and sense of community, but found that people were stupid and selfish. So take advantage of that stupidity and selfishness. If you can't get people to take active steps, and overtly pushing them is actually counterproductive (as it seems to be), the alternate plan would seem to be things that aren't as public-facing and overt. If addressing the disease directly causes wrong action, then don't address it directly.

What about subsidizing/incentivizing improved ventilation and filtration in population-dense businesses and schools (especially in schools?) Call it 'modernizing.' What about a very subtle, non-pushy campaign quietly planting the idea that masks are appropriate for any sneezing/coughing illness, not just COVID (ala much of Asia?) What about investing in research to improve remote schooling - figuring out what works and doesn't, training teachers, developing new teaching techniques? Or tax breaks for business that allow work-from-home (possibly disguised as an environmental effort to reduce traffic?) Improving broadband penetration to support both of the above? What about contacting other agencies (BLM, Fish & Wildlife, etc) to make a strong publicity push for activities that are lower risk without ever mentioning disease (fishing, hiking, camping, etc.) Look into better ways to ensure that workers who are sick don't feel the need to report to work anyway (this would be a tough sell in this political climate, admittedly...) What about targeting our weak spots - like poor access to medical care in some ethnic communities?

In each case, figure out what actually motivates people and business, and then apply those motivations to things other than the disease itself that nonetheless achieves the results you want.

These are, admittedly, half-assed (and versions of some may already be in place), but if I can think of them at midnight on a day after five hours of sleep and with zero actual expertise, a CDC committee (perhaps with a couple of advertising pros and psychologists) could come up with something. Take their knowledge of what needs to change, and find ways to influence people to make those changes other than shouting "change or else!" at them.

They aren't nearly as good as masking/lockdown/avoiding/vaccinating. But they're something that is more effective than nothing, and ten small steps can add up.

[LawBeefaroni]

There aren’t other answers. And maybe that’s ok. We seem committed to just rolling the dice and hoping. I wish us luck.

The thing that (still) blows me away is that at least one million people have died. At least. And society collectively is just like...yeah, whatever.

We are completely numb to death and suffering as a society.

The higher the number gets, the less threatening it becomes. Human nature. Remember when we were waiting with bated breath announcements of single cases in the early days? Those were scary. 1M deaths? Mere statistics. Abstractions.

[El Guapo]

There aren’t other answers. And maybe that’s ok. We seem committed to just rolling the dice and hoping. I wish us luck.

The thing that (still) blows me away is that at least one million people have died. At least. And society collectively is just like...yeah, whatever.

We are completely numb to death and suffering as a society.

The higher the number gets, the less threatening it becomes. Human nature. Remember when we were waiting with bated breath announcements of single cases in the early days? Those were scary. 1M deaths? Mere statistics. Abstractions.

Also I imagine those deaths are largely concentrated among the least powerful and influential among our society. It's pretty striking to me how invisible this whole pandemic has been in my personal experience. It took a long time for anyone in my direct social network to get covid. With omicron that changed, but I still don't directly know anyone that had a bad case of covid - everyone who has gotten it has had mild to no symptoms. I do know indirectly of a couple deaths from covid, but those were both pretty old (and I think unvaccinated) parents of acquaintances.

That's not to minimize what the pandemic has done, as that's mainly a reflection of the fact that my wife and I and almost my entire social network have been able to work from home for the bulk of the pandemic, and that our social network is almost entirely vaccinated people in a blue state. From that viewpoint, the pandemic doesn't really seem dangerous in the slightest.

So I suspect that the shrugging is mostly because for the powerful and influential people in society they're able to protect themselves and their loved ones, in addition to the fact that some of them have political / economic / other incentives to want society to power ahead.

[Kraken]

There aren’t other answers. And maybe that’s ok. We seem committed to just rolling the dice and hoping. I wish us luck.

The thing that (still) blows me away is that at least one million people have died. At least. And society collectively is just like...yeah, whatever.

We are completely numb to death and suffering as a society.

The higher the number gets, the less threatening it becomes. Human nature. Remember when we were waiting with bated breath announcements of single cases in the early days? Those were scary. 1M deaths? Mere statistics. Abstractions.

I saw a headline a couple days ago that said 1/3 of Americans know somebody who died of covid. But if most of those casualties were old and infirm...grannie's number was coming up soon anyway.

[Unagi]

\We are now at the level of 'influenza' for this virus, and the hospitals can handle it and most everyone will get just a cold.

Not accurate. Even at the current "low" rate it is still 3 times the rate of a bad flu season. Except it's year round all the time. You could argue the worst flu days are worse than the current COVID day but that's about it. Just as a sanity check this year so far 3200 people have died of the flu. That is what we see in 10 days at the current rate with COVID.

To be perfectly clear, I was explaining what people 'tell me', when I tell them this isn't just like the flu. (Maybe you got that, but I wanted to be sure)

But I still appreciate your reply, because I use all of these replies, data, counter-points - to push back against these people.

I believe it's also a poor comparison because of the nature of how we plan for influenza with vaccines and how that isn't something we are currently able to do with COVID, not to mention that we have no idea how COVID may mutate next.

[malchior]

\We are now at the level of 'influenza' for this virus, and the hospitals can handle it and most everyone will get just a cold.

Not accurate. Even at the current "low" rate it is still 3 times the rate of a bad flu season. Except it's year round all the time. You could argue the worst flu days are worse than the current COVID day but that's about it. Just as a sanity check this year so far 3200 people have died of the flu. That is what we see in 10 days at the current rate with COVID.

To be perfectly clear, I was explaining what people 'tell me', when I tell them this isn't just like the flu. (Maybe you got that, but I wanted to be sure)

But I still appreciate your reply, because I use all of these replies, data, counter-points - to push back against these people.

Yeah. That's what that was meant to say. These narratives drive me crazy. Many folks due to reading misleading MSM coverage of this, people chattering, whatever are uncalibrated to reality. When you show them the numbers they often are surprised. Well that is if they have functioning cerebral cortexes.

I believe it's also a poor comparison because of the nature of how we plan for influenza with vaccines and how that isn't something we are currently able to do with COVID, not to mention that we have no idea how COVID may mutate next.

Right. Put aside the vaccines and seasonality. We have a steady state of death that makes this a serious problem still. But the economy! (Which is being torn apart by the supply chain imbalances driven by COVID). Sigh.

[LordMortis]

A new week's data released and it's getting bad unless you look at the CDC risk map. Makes me really wish I hadn't gone to my retirement dinner. It's really concerning when testing is pretty much not a thing. All those testing centers from just a few months ago are gone. I have been doing more discretionary shopping and there is a lot of pent up demand for my part. No one is masking any more. You might see an employee or two masking. You might see 10% at the grocers masking. No body is masking at non grocer retailer.

Fortunately hospitalizations are still not on the rise.

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-coron ... s-and-maps

[Unagi]

From your link... I think this small table says a lot:

CDC 'risk' levels:
- Low (masks optional)
- Medium (masks optional)
- High



So, what have they got there?

Low risk... Masks are optional... seems like that may make sense. I mean, the risk is low... So I guess maybe protection is optional...
Medium risk... ah hell... let's just go with 'masks optional' still. Why not!
High risk... look! We stopped saying that masks were optional here... but then again, we just didn't mention masks at all. Cause that's much safer.


So sad. I guess I should be happy that they still suggest masks, even as optional.

[LordMortis]

Yeah, that's what I think when I look at it. The CDC joined the "eh, fuck it" club. All I can do it my part though. And it this point my part is to mask, distance, and not linger. That dinner was a mistake. So now, we wait for the Find Out phase and stay away from my parents in the meantime. I'm doing a lunch with old coworkers tomorrow for "derby day" for the first time in three years. That will be in and out, but it will still reset the clock for spending time with my parents.

I'm very sad we are this far into spring and cases are jumping like they are. I expected this coming in to April, not coming in to May. Two plus years is just too long to do nothing but work to live. At the same time, while I'm just beginning to step out again, the world around me has completely moved on. It's smaller wonder that cases are going a bit nutz from the brief trips (and restaurant visits) I am making now.

[RunningMn9]

What are the other options?

Again, I'm not a person who spent years studying this.

They are. And when you ask them, they are telling you what I’m saying here. These are the things that will work. We say, we aren’t doing those simple things, what else have you got? They say, just those things, the other nonsense people are talking about aren’t the things that work.

And here we are. If you want to limit community spread, the answer is masking and social distancing. If you don’t want to do those things, you aren’t going to limit community spread.

[LawBeefaroni]

What about a CDC recommendation like "limit activities to within your own socio-economic strata." This keeps pressure off of hospitals, thanks to healthcare inequities, firms up voting blocks, and limits visibility on scope of the problem.

Win/win/win for the CDC, their politician overlords, and the wheels of capitalism.

[Max Peck]

A new week's data released and it's getting bad unless you look at the CDC risk map. Makes me really wish I hadn't gone to my retirement dinner. It's really concerning when testing is pretty much not a thing. All those testing centers from just a few months ago are gone. I have been doing more discretionary shopping and there is a lot of pent up demand for my part. No one is masking any more. You might see an employee or two masking. You might see 10% at the grocers masking. No body is masking at non grocer retailer.

Fortunately hospitalizations are still not on the rise.

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-coron ... s-and-maps

They seem to be misrepresenting the CDC Community Levels map slightly. The CDC doesn't refer to it as a community risk map (they seem to have carefully chosen a semantically null title for the data set) but all it shows is the extent to which the hospital system is stressed, as measured by hospital admissions and staffed bed occupancy, with some gating by new cases (i.e. if there are enough new cases then the floor becomes medium instead of low). Given that hospitalization is a lagging indicator, if a county goes red on that map then that tells you that it was high risk a couple of weeks ago.





It seems to me that the Community Transmission map is more useful in assessing risk (unless we define risk as "risk of not being able to receive treatment at a hospital if you fail your saving throw vs disease").



However, the Community Levels map is a reassuring green while the Community Transmission map is an alarming red, which is not conducive to the intended message of:

[RunningMn9]

Blackhawk, I didn't mean to give your answer a quick, flippant response - but I was getting gas and only had a few moments to get that out.

I guess my confusion is that I don't know what you are asking for in all of this. I assume that the question is "how can we limit community spread?" because that is the threat (and has been the threat for two years). The answer to that question has been given, and we have collectively said "no thank you" to those answers.

The "other" answers (installing new ventilation systems, spending money on researching stuff, etc.) - none of those answers address the real issue - we are still in a pandemic, and unrestrained community spread is the continuing threat.

If the question becomes "We have accepted that we aren't going to limit community spread, now what?", you are going to get blank stares from public health officials because that sounds insane to them. Just accepting that many more people are going to die, because we are too stupid to wear correct masks when applicable? They aren't into that.

The best strategy at that point is to stop asking them. They can't give you useful answers, because your question goes against their education and experience. And if you can't ask experts, then it doesn't really matter. We'll just do whatever performative thing we think makes it look like we are trying, and call it a day (hourly cleaning of counters, installing ventilation, spending money on research, etc.).

I've accepted that we've accepted that people are just going to die. I've accepted that I might be one of them. There's nothing I can do about it. I cannot turn the tide of 330M people that don't giveafuck.

[Skinypupy]

I was wondering why "Pfizer documents" was trending this morning. Welp...

tl:dr version: Group did a FOIA request which uncovered an internal "safety surveillance report" from Pfizer. That document listed a number of "adverse events" observed from those who took the vaccine. As expected, the usual morons have taken this and run wild with it, saying "See, we told you the vaccine was dangerous. And Pfizer is trying to hide it!".

In reality, here's what "adverse event" means:

The term “adverse event” describes any health problem that occurs after vaccination, regardless of whether the vaccine caused it. For example, a toothache in someone who received a vaccine would be considered an adverse event. However, a toothache can’t be attributed to vaccination. In contrast, the term “side effect” refers only to adverse events causally linked to the vaccine, such as an allergic reaction to a vaccine ingredient.

[Blackhawk]

What are the other options?

Again, I'm not a person who spent years studying this.

They are. And when you ask them, they are telling you what I’m saying here. These are the things that will work. We say, we aren’t doing those simple things, what else have you got? They say, just those things, the other nonsense people are talking about aren’t the things that work.

And here we are. If you want to limit community spread, the answer is masking and social distancing. If you don’t want to do those things, you aren’t going to limit community spread.

Again: the best tools aren't the only tools. You can put a screw in with a hammer. It won't hold as well, but standing there holding a screw and desperately asking for a screwdriver when everyone has said no won't hold anything at all.

Their plan will not happen. They can come up with a new plan, or they quit and walk away.

I wouldn't be surprised if history shows that they actually already are neck deep in plan B, and that part of it, as I suggested, was to take public choice out of the equation. IE, focus their efforts quietly on peripheral elements with positive effects. And since pushing for compliance worked against them, they stopped pushing for compliance.

Meanwhile, people who care can find much of the information if they want it, and there are heroes like Smoove_B out here pushing the truth for the few who listen.

Or the entire agency may have just given up. I don't know.

FWIW, I really, strongly agree with the original measures. I was signed up for every shot within hours of it becoming available. I still wear masks. I still counter misinformation. I still push good choices on family and friends. I cancel gatherings, and I still rave at the stupidity.

But the CDC doesn't need to work on me (I'm already there), and it was pointless to keep dumping resources to get through to everyone else - they never will be there.

[RunningMn9]

In reality, here's what "adverse event" means:

The term “adverse event” describes any health problem that occurs after vaccination, regardless of whether the vaccine caused it. For example, a toothache in someone who received a vaccine would be considered an adverse event. However, a toothache can’t be attributed to vaccination. In contrast, the term “side effect” refers only to adverse events causally linked to the vaccine, such as an allergic reaction to a vaccine ingredient.

Incidentally, my wife had COVID (original variant) back in Oct 2020, then got vaccinated (two Pfizer shots of anti-COVID juice), and then got boosted some time in October. Within a month of getting boosted (early-to-mid October) my wife started developing fevers daily. Every day. Since mid-November (173 days and counting). At some point during the day, her temp will hit between 101 and 102. Every damn day (on the telephone?!).

It's been exhausting. There is no known cause at this time (she's been seeing various specialists since January). They've ruled out all detectable auto-immune disorders. Her blood work always comes back that she's fine - although her antibody response to COVID is exceptionally high (or was back in Jan/Feb anyway). Their best guess so far is "Long COVID" or "Immune System went haywire in response to having COVID + three shots in < 7 months" - which sounds a lot like guessing to me.

In any case, we don't count this as an adverse vaccine event because there's no way to know if it was caused by the vaccine. Although it might be, given that the only thing that has every showed up in her blood has been massive amounts of COVID antibodies. She took Aleve for a month, that didn't help. She was on steroids to try to reset the immune response, that did nothing. Next up was Celebrex, but that didn't do squat.

It's been less than ideal.