Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

[stessier]

Kyle from Out of Spec Reviews got a Rivian RT. He's promising a lot of content about it, so would be worth following if you are interested.

[stessier]

I am planning a trip to MA in two weeks and we will be taking our Mach-E. My brother came across this article and had to call and make sure I knew what I was doing.

If you don't want to click on the link, it is a first-person account of a WSJ reporter who wanted to go from Louisiana to Chicago and back in 4 days. It appears, though, that this was the first time she'd used an EV for a road trip, that she wasn't even sure what type of car she had, and she had no idea how the charging infrastructure works. As you might imagine, it was not a good trip.

I think this just shows how much more education is needed. I'm considering filming my trip to MA so my family can see what it's like when you (mostly) know what you're doing.

[stessier]

I leave for my trip to MA in about two weeks. My hometown has an EA charger - right across from our hotel! Now it appears down for repairs with no ETA. This is not great. There are 50kW chargers around, so I'm not in a desert, but my very easy trip just got a bit more complicated.

[Zaxxon]

I leave for my trip to MA in about two weeks. My hometown has an EA charger - right across from our hotel! Now it appears down for repairs with no ETA. This is not great. There are 50kW chargers around, so I'm not in a desert, but my very easy trip just got a bit more complicated.

Sheesh. I'm not gonna say it.

Best of luck--at least you've got 50 kW available. Not ideal but also not nearly the PITA that only having L2 available would be. Is another hotel that has L2 onsite an option?

[coopasonic]

I leave for my trip to MA in about two weeks. My hometown has an EA charger - right across from our hotel! Now it appears down for repairs with no ETA. This is not great. There are 50kW chargers around, so I'm not in a desert, but my very easy trip just got a bit more complicated.

Sheesh. I'm not gonna say it.

By not saying it, you are definitely saying it.

Hmm, maybe I should offer stess a trade. I don't need road trip capability.

[stessier]

I leave for my trip to MA in about two weeks. My hometown has an EA charger - right across from our hotel! Now it appears down for repairs with no ETA. This is not great. There are 50kW chargers around, so I'm not in a desert, but my very easy trip just got a bit more complicated.

Sheesh. I'm not gonna say it.

Best of luck--at least you've got 50 kW available. Not ideal but also not nearly the PITA that only having L2 available would be. Is another hotel that has L2 onsite an option?

Changed my filter setting a bit and found a 125kW ChargePoint - not quite as convenient - about 15 minutes from my hotel - but better than 50kW.

There is a hotel about 2 minutes away with a Tesla destination charger and I have a Tesla tap, but it is double to cost.

The Tesla Supercharger station is right across the street from the EA station. Bummer that they haven't opened their network quite yet.

[The Meal]

Mom’s place is about 20 miles from a 150 kW supercharger.

Dad’s is 43 miles (58 minutes) from a 150kW supercharger.

We should do fine at Mom’s for a few days. I’ll need the car at my Pop’s place, so we rented a hotel with a 10 kW destination charger. Should work out fine as long as we call ahead to make sure it won’t get blocked.

[Zaxxon]

Electrify America gains a nine-digit investment from Siemens. Hopefully this helps EA continue expanding and keep up with repairs.

[Daehawk]

[The Meal]

Mom’s place is about 20 miles from a 150 kW supercharger.

Dad’s is 43 miles (58 minutes) from a 150kW supercharger.

We should do fine at Mom’s for a few days. I’ll need the car at my Pop’s place, so we rented a hotel with a 10 kW destination charger. Should work out fine as long as we call ahead to make sure it won’t get blocked.

We got back last night from this trip. 2,910.60 miles total (back-and-forth + on site) for $296.93 spent at super chargers. 2022 Tesla Model 3 Long Range.



As anticipated, no need for a charger at Mom's. She got a Tesla test ride while we were there, but other than that, we were in her driveway. While staying in Dad's neck of the woods, we had a destination charger (at an upscale hotel). There was one Tesla destination charger (10 kW) and a JuiceBox charger (2 kW) available for no charge to guests. We were able to get on the 10 kW charger nearly every time we wanted. There were orange pylons available for guests to put in front of the chargers when they weren't in use, and this system kept them free on a first-come-first-served basis. MHS had called ahead to the hotel, but could tell they weren't much interested in policing the charger spots, so fortunately common civility worked fine.



The last thing I did before pulling out on the 1st was to make sure the tires were 42 PSI cold. I do have some after-market aerocaps on my wheels but I've got no sense of the before-and-after effect of these caps as I leave them on all the time. The frunk was loaded up with the air compressor (workable both AC and DC), a tire patch kit, additional windshield wiper fluid, the Tesla Charger kit, and NEMA 5-20 and 14-50 charge adapters — none of which were used. The rear storage cubby had a 25' 10/3 extension cord and some work gloves, and none of those were used. The COVID & cleaning kit included a roll of paper towels, 50x KN95 masks, a box of nitrile gloves, 3 pouches of baby wipes, a tube of windex wipes, and some hand sanitizer. I periodically wiped down the passenger seats, cleaned the windows (wiper fluid + paper towels did better than the windex wipes), removed bugs from the front profile of the car, and we always wore masks at every stop (never once got a comment or even any side eye, despite frequently being the only mask wearers).

We charged to 100% state of charge (SOC) before departing, which let us go 201 miles before our first supercharger stop. As it stands, that's still the longest continual drive we've made in the car (200.93 miles, we also had a 200.13 mile leg across Iowa and Illinois the next day after a particularly long charge). The trip out covered 1303 miles over 19.3 hours drive time (67.5 mph avg), 10 stops (avg 18.7 mins/stop) and we averaged 247 Wh/mile (though it was more down hill than up). We stayed overnight at hotels twice along the way, neither time on a charger. I turned off cabin overheat protection, but left security mode engaged, and our SOC went from 47% to 43% on the first night, and 53% to 44% on the second (lots of fireworks going off that second night—my security alarm engaged on one particularly loud boomer, which I think ate into the battery with over 100 security events).



Stops were less of an "issue" than I thought they'd be. The car screen has access to a few online accounts we subscribe to (Disney+, Hulu, Netflix, maybe others?) and we saved viewing certain programs for the trip. Over the whole there-and-back-again we turned the screen on twice and took in one episode of Only Murders in the Building (S2E1). There was very very little sitting in the car waiting for a charge to finish up. A couple of times we picked up fast food as we were rolling in, and frequently we were hitting up local rest rooms. There was very little time to actually kill while we were sitting there (two or three stops total).

Every single supercharger worked on the first try. We never moved the car once at a charger to get better speeds. We only saw an 8 stall charger fill up all the way twice, though frequently we were nearly full. We saw plenty of completely empty chargers. There were enough stops at gas stations that allowed us to empty our trash (though there were also a handful of non-petrol station stops that had cleaning squeegees and trash cans available to us as we crossed the heartland). 250 kW superchargers are noticeably faster than the 150 kW versions.



We had a small interstitial trip between destinations:
164 miles, 2.7 hours drive time (60.7 mph avg), 2 stops (wanted lots of charge when we arrived as we weren't confident about our charging situation once we were there, though it turned out to be a non-issue) at 15.5 min avg stop, and 266 Wh/mile avg.



Both Mom and Dad got test rides in the car while we were there. Both are in their 80s (Dad had his 84th birthday while we were there; MHS also had a birthday, but I'm not telling the number). Both were between mildly-to-significantly negative on electric vehicles before their test rides (generally due to fear of the unknown, but Dad also has his fair share of Wormtongues constantly speaking into his pliant ears from his right-leaning group of friends). A big part of that is living in Michigan and growing up with the auto industry. All Michiganders have strong opinions about cars and if you spent the vast majority of your life with the rise of the ICE complex, it's going to very much be entrenched in your comfort zone.



Mom's experience was mildly positive when she was done. She loved the ride of the car and the spartan cabin interior, along with the exterior looks. She was put off by the technology aspects of things. "I don't think I'd be able to figure out all those controls," when I showed her the primary menu. Dad's experience was surprisingly more positive than anticipated. He laughed when I gave him the acceleration demonstration (honestly, only about a 75% acceleration demo, as I didn't want to give him a grabber right there in my passenger seat). He loved nearly everything about the inside and out of the car. He raved about the comfort of the seats. When he was talking to his wife afterwards he loved that he could just push a button and tell the car what he wanted, "he opened the glove box with his mouth! Navigation was way easier to set up than the Garmin!" When I mildly pushed him, he said his concern would be that he'd have to share the car with his wife (12-years younger) rather than the price or concerns about how many years the batteries would last. I'd love to show him just how easy a car it'd be for their twice-yearly trips back-and-forth between MI and FL.



The return trip was just as smooth as the ride out, even though we consolidated it into two days. MHS hadn't driven the car in my first six months of ownership, but we did get out together the weekend before we left so she'd be comfortable splitting up road trip duties. She joked with people that she "didn't pay much attention when [The Meal] talked about autonomous driving features, as she wasn't going to use them anyway," but she ended up loving how much easier it made things. "Coming back off the freeways was like going from weightlessness to gravity," she'd explain, revealing how nice the driver-assist feature was when on the freeways. It really is a joyful vehicle to roadtrip.



Return trip: 1366 miles over 19.5 hours of drive time (70.0 mph, avg), 13 supercharger stops for a 14 min/stop average, and 275 Wh/mile average.

Overall numbers:
2833 miles, 41.5 hours drive time (68.3 mph, avg), 25 supercharger stops (16 min/stop average), and 262 Wh/mile overall.

On the home stretch last night :"This was our best road trip ever." "I totally agree."

[Zaxxon]

Sweet! Glad to hear it went well and was a positive experience for you. We are getting ready for our longest EV road trip yet--later this month we'll be heading out for 4,500 miles across 2 weeks, visiting several family members we haven't visited since The Before [COVID} Times. I do envy your charge stats, as we'll be loading up the X for this one. That is an amazing vehicle--and capably holds the 4 of us plus our dogs and an immense amount of our stuff--but it's ~30% more energy-hungry than the 3, and its 18650 batteries are last-gen with the stricter charge taper curve that comes with that. End result is our average stop time will be more like 25 min vs your 16.

Absolute concurrence on autopilot being a major benefit on trips like these.

[stessier]

That's a cool trip report Meal! Glad you didn't run into any issues and might have converted a few people to boot.

On Sunday, I got back from a 2,483 mile trip of my own in a 2022 Mustang Mach E Premium Extended Range with my wife and daughters (12 & 15). This is approximately the route we took with some deviations around DC to show the kids where my wife and I met/lived.



The car was packed to the gills - I wish I had taken some pictures of it. We were gone for 15 days and had packed like we wouldn't be able to do any laundry (which was crazy). My mother wanted us to take 4 photo albums back with us and it took me a while to figure out how to do it. The car worked flawlessly though. I did all the driving and my wife loved how easily I was able to merge as I seemingly go up to speed instantly. The kids had no complaints other than they could have used a bit more space to pack even more electronics into. They pretty much didn't speak during any of the driving as they had their devices and enjoyed the ability to recharge while we went so nothing ever died.

For charging, I stuck to what I knew and only used the EA network. It helped that it was part of the Ford Partner program and I got 250 kWh free. The only deviation from that was a rest stop in MD where the family needed a bathroom break. I took about 15 minutes from a 50 kW charger just because it was there and so were we. Maintenance guys were at that stop and were telling me that it had only been since January that the units had been switch to fee based from free (they had been installed for the past 4+ years). They said maintaining them was tough because the sun degraded the housing so fast and dust/dirt always found its way into the cabinets and card readers. I don't remember what network that was, but it didn't seem great. Oh, and I also used a Level 2 charger while we were at the Patriots Hall of Fame. It was free, so again, why not. It was SUPER slow though - 4 hours got me about 7 kWh.

In terms of convenience, while we were driving, we only needed to charge when we needed to stop anyway for breakfast or lunch. In those cases, the car was always at 80% before we were ready to leave. For the charges when we were at a hotel/relative, my (I've been told irrational) wake-up time really helped as I was able to charge at 5am and was done before anyone else was up. During those times, I just played my daily games of Wordle, Quordle, Nerdle, Mathler, and Waffle.

In terms of reliability, I found the PlugShare was really useful to see what was happening at each site. In MA, our site only had 1 usable charger out of 4 - that was the worst situation I saw. In NJ, 7 out of 8 were active, but 3 of the active ones were limited in some way. I only had to wait for a plug once (in MA) and that was only for 20 minutes at 5am. At the same site, I also unplugged once at 77% instead of 80% because someone was waiting for me and I had all I needed. All the others I always was able to drive in and charge. Plug and Charge worked flawlessly. Once my free time was up, I switched to the app because the cost was lower. I knew about the trick of initializing the session in the app before plugging in the car (despite what the app says) and never had an issue.

I only had range anxiety once. We drove from Cherry Hill, NJ to Petersburg, VA. It was rainy and once we got south of DC, it took us 3 hours to go 90 miles. There were multiple chargers along the way that I could have used, but we didn't want to get off of I-95 and lose our spot in the traffic jam. We arrived at the hotel with 145 miles of range and it was 90 miles to the next charger. The next morning it was still raining and the speed limit was 70 (I always went speed limit +5). At 75mph, I noticed our buffer start to drop alarmingly. Once the buffer hit 20 miles, I dropped our speed to 65mph for the rest of the trip. This added about 4 minutes to the leg of our journey and allowed us to arrive at 9% SOC. Plenty for me, but my wife was happy for my decision to slow down.



So overall - good trip. Took some planning, but was never concerned about charging (outside of that last day). Wish there were more destination chargers at hotels. Oh, and at almost every stop, someone was asking about the car. The further I got from SC, the more impressed they were that I could make it that far. Don't know if anyone changed their minds, but a lot of people said they were thinking electric for their next one.

[dbt1949]

I'm glad you all had good trips. I really am. But it just reinforces my belief to not go electric.
Well, that and my inability to afford one.

[Zaxxon]

Glad it went well, stessier!

allowed us to arrive at 9% SOC. Plenty for me, but my wife was happy for my decision to slow down.

Amateur! You haven't lived until you've arrived with 1%.

[malchior]

Glad it went well, stessier!

allowed us to arrive at 9% SOC. Plenty for me, but my wife was happy for my decision to slow down.

Amateur! You haven't lived until you've arrived with 1%.

Yeah I had a white knuckler like that on my second road trip. A modest by the above standards at 750 mi. I was at an event for a weekend without access to a convenient charger. On the way in for the weekend I knew I'd be floating a bit so I had charged up on the slow end of the curve at last supercharger prior to the destination. Between sentry and local driving I ran a little lower than I would have liked but I trusted in the nav. I said, "Navigate home". It set me up with a super charger that was only about 60 miles away. There was one much closer in the wrong direction but the nav said I could make it.

As I drove it seemed like due to the pre-condition it was dropping percentage wise faster than progress over the distance left to the destination. It also changed from 3 of 8 available to 'short wait' in that time. Ergh. I rolled in to a Sheetz with superchargers with about 2% left to spare and had to wait for a stall. I knew I was at no risk because there is reserve past zero but I was lucky I didn't have my wife with me. She would not have been happy with it.

[Zaxxon]

They did finally update the nav to take more data into account recently (2022.16.x, I believe). It used to use distance, elevation change, current temp, and vehicle-specific info. Now it adds in wind conditions, humidity, and temp along the route. I'm eager to see on this next trip whether the new algo also improves the initial accuracy when on high-speed roads. (So that I don't see the typical 5% ETA range drop right after getting back on the interstate and the car realizes that actually no one drives 75 mph on a 75 mph highway.)

[Zaxxon]

Kim Java has a night with an R1T:

[dbt1949]

What a cool truck!

[The Meal]

Great trip report, stess! I'm a little jealous of your true road trip (ours was really a couple of sprints across the heartland with some visitin' in the middle). I think I'd get very frustrated with charging network equipment (which was a huge reason I purchased what I did), but it's not like you ever got shut out from getting the juice in any particular spot (so I probably overspent for convenience, as I tend to do). Also your (theoretical) cost per mile was significantly lower than mine. I think the lowest SOC we ever rolled in at was 10%, but both MHS and I were willing to shoot for a 4% — it just never happened.

[naednek]

Mom’s place is about 20 miles from a 150 kW supercharger.

Dad’s is 43 miles (58 minutes) from a 150kW supercharger.

We should do fine at Mom’s for a few days. I’ll need the car at my Pop’s place, so we rented a hotel with a 10 kW destination charger. Should work out fine as long as we call ahead to make sure it won’t get blocked.

Sigh, I got back from a vacation where round trip was 600 miles. that cost me around $200 (but only had 2 stops)

[stessier]

Also your (theoretical) cost per mile was significantly lower than mine.

That's interesting. How much does Tesla charge? For EA, it's $0.41/kWh for non-members and $0.31 for members (except, apparently in MA, where it was the same prices, but per minute instead of kWh - which was a huge deal!).

[Isgrimnur]

Mom’s place is about 20 miles from a 150 kW supercharger.

Dad’s is 43 miles (58 minutes) from a 150kW supercharger.

We should do fine at Mom’s for a few days. I’ll need the car at my Pop’s place, so we rented a hotel with a 10 kW destination charger. Should work out fine as long as we call ahead to make sure it won’t get blocked.

Sigh, I got back from a vacation where round trip was 600 miles. that cost me around $200 (but only had 2 stops)

Thank you for trimming the quoted wall of text.

[Zaxxon]

Also your (theoretical) cost per mile was significantly lower than mine.

That's interesting. How much does Tesla charge? For EA, it's $0.41/kWh for non-members and $0.31 for members (except, apparently in MA, where it was the same prices, but per minute instead of kWh - which was a huge deal!).

It varies based largely on the state, but is in that ballpark looking at my recent Supercharges (I see $0.41/kWh, $0.43/kWh, and $0.33/kWh along with $0.40-$0.71/min for other locations). And yeah, per-minute can be a sweet deal when things are trucking along at 200 kW.

[Zaxxon]

I know I've harped on this for years, but non-Tesla charging networks really need to get their shit together. I see more and more reports of this stuff (which is mostly on the tweet-bird app, so who knows how reliable), and have seen it more with L2 stations personally, as well. Stessier's report from just this week also backs up this reporting (a 4-stall site with 3 down, and an 8-stall with 1 down and 3 limited).

It's not the case that Superchargers never break or get full, but Tesla 1) gets them repaired quickly, 2) generally has 8+ stalls at most locations (with some older 4- and 6-stall locations still hanging around), and 3) expands or augments over-used locations rapidly.

It's also a shame that CCS is almost certainly going to be the universal standard in the US, despite it being clunkier, available on fewer vehicles, and seemingly less reliable (this article is not the first I've heard of holding CCS connectors the right way in order to get charging to start, and I've come across that myself on J1772, as well. Never had it happen with a Tesla cable in 200+ Supercharging stops and dozens more destination/HPWC uses). I get why CCS is going to be the standard, but it's a shame given that Tesla's experience and setup are clearly superior. Seems like we're far enough into the EA network rollout that it's fair to make comparisons and not give the 'but they're just getting started' free pass for issues.

[coopasonic]

Tesla fanboi!

[Zaxxon]

Tesla fanboi!

On the contrary, I bitch about this because I'd love to have the opportunity to purchase other brands' BEVs in the future. We take too many and too out-there road trips for that to be possible given the current state of things.

[stessier]

I know I've harped on this for years, but non-Tesla charging networks really need to get their shit together. I see more and more reports of this stuff (which is mostly on the tweet-bird app, so who knows how reliable), and have seen it more with L2 stations personally, as well. Stessier's report from just this week also backs up this reporting (a 4-stall site with 3 down, and an 8-stall with 1 down and 3 limited).

It's not the case that Superchargers never break or get full, but Tesla 1) gets them repaired quickly, 2) generally has 8+ stalls at most locations (with some older 4- and 6-stall locations still hanging around), and 3) expands or augments over-used locations rapidly.

It's also a shame that CCS is almost certainly going to be the universal standard in the US, despite it being clunkier, available on fewer vehicles, and seemingly less reliable (this article is not the first I've heard of holding CCS connectors the right way in order to get charging to start, and I've come across that myself on J1772, as well. Never had it happen with a Tesla cable in 200+ Supercharging stops and dozens more destination/HPWC uses). I get why CCS is going to be the standard, but it's a shame given that Tesla's experience and setup are clearly superior. Seems like we're far enough into the EA network rollout that it's fair to make comparisons and not give the 'but they're just getting started' free pass for issues.

I would just note that Tesla (2012) has a 5 year head start on EA (2017) and 7 years on Shell (bought Greenlots in 2019) - which appear to be the 2 mentioned in the article. That's not insignificant. You mentioned that Tesla still has old 4 & 6 stall stations - so it's not like Tesla dropped 12 stalls everyone right out of the gate. It seems reasonable that EA started with smaller installations that could grow over time as the number of cars needing them increased. I'll also note that excepting my 1 stall station, I only saw a full charger site once in my 2500 miles (and it was full of Mach Es!!! I'll have to post the pic). Is it not common knowledge that on heavy travel days, certain Tesla stations will have lines the whole time? I think it's a function of the size of the fleet, not something fundamentally broken. Also, they really have to work on the business case for installing chargers in the first place.

In terms of maintenance and repairs, they are trying to not only maintain stations, but expand during a pandemic when part are notably in short supply. I agree they need to improve on uptime. I disagree with the article and commenters that there is no plan.

Edit: So many ponies!

Spoiler:

[Zaxxon]

That's an awesome Mach-E pic.

You're right that Tesla had a head start, of course. But these aren't problems that Tesla has worked through--they're largely problems that Tesla never had (and hasn't dealt with due to the pandemic, either). Some of them are due to being stuck with an inferior standard, some are due to having multiple manufacturers involved and less integration between charging station and car, some are due to bad software, and some due to bad business plans, absolutely. I'm sure they'll get there eventually. But we're at a point today where it's causing issues for folks, and every prospective buyer who hears a horror story and gets a PHEV instead is a lost opportunity.

Re: lines at Superchargers. Definitely the case in some areas, mostly California. But that's what I was getting at when I said

It's not the case that Superchargers never break or get full, but Tesla 1) gets them repaired quickly, 2) generally has 8+ stalls at most locations (with some older 4- and 6-stall locations still hanging around), and 3) expands or augments over-used locations rapidly.

Having lines from selling boatloads of EVs while adding stations on a daily basis is something to work on resolving, but is not comparable to the other networks' problems.

[Zaxxon]

GM / Pilot (Flying J) / EVgo to launch new nationwide L3 charging network.

GM shared details of its plans for a new nationwide charging network in a press release today, explaining how both Pilot Company and EVgo are involved. General Motors and Pilot Company will collaborate to establish the DC fast charging network that will initially consist of 2,000 stalls across 500 Pilot and Flying J travel centers near major highways.

...

During a conference call with the media, EVgo CEO Cathy Zoi shared that charger installations for the new GM network will begin immediately, with the first stalls expected to be operational in early 2023. According to Zoi, the bulk of the installations will be completed between 2023 and 2025.

Not ecstatic about an average of 4 stalls/location (will they all be 4-stall locations, or are they implying that some will be only 2 stalls?) But 350 kW stations and direct backing from GM and Pilot with maintenance by EVgo--hopefully promising. Maybe Pilot getting into the game will convince Love's to do something similar. (Love's has ~500 US locations, vs Pilot/s ~750.

[Freyland]

Hi

Sorry if this was covered recently in the thread, I just started reading. I need a new car soon, and would prefer electric. Is there a clear-cut first choice right now? Perhaps some top options?

[Zaxxon]

Sorry if this was covered recently in the thread, I just started reading. I need a new car soon, and would prefer electric. Is there a clear-cut first choice right now? Perhaps some top options?

What are your criteria? Budget/vehicle size? Do you have a garage at home? Are you mostly driving in and around town, or do you plan to do significant long road trips?

There are lots of options these days.

[Freyland]

Garage
Mostly local to 40 minute drives, but sometimes I get out
Ideally fit 4 (but there are 5 of us)
Budget is good, but not luxury-car good

Thank you

[Zaxxon]

You've got a ton of options, then. I'd check out the Mustang Mach-e, Hyundai Ioniq 5 or Kona, Chevy Bolt, Tesla Model 3 or Y, and the Nissan Leaf to start.

Since you have a garage and it didn't sound like thousand-mile road trips are a big priority, range and fast-charging network are less important.

Tesla is the clear volume leader with the longest track record of reliability, and the most integrated and reliable fast-charging network. But it's also a steep entry price these days, most configs have a sizeable delivery wait (unless you're prepared to shell out for a performance trim), and Tesla no longer qualifies for the federal EV tax credit.

Ford is making a splash with the Mach-e, and everyone I know with one loves it (ask the folks here!).

Hyundai/Kia both are making very solid entries these days. Reviews I've seen have been glowing.

I used to have a prior-gen Leaf and liked it, though it and the current-gen lags on range and fast-charge capability. There's also talk that Nissan is axing the Leaf after this generation.

If I was in the market today, had to pick a non-Tesla, and wasn't spending Rivian R1S money, I'd be leaning Mach-e or Ioniq 5.

[The Meal]

Ioniq 6 looks good, too.

[Zaxxon]

Ioniq 6 looks good, too.

Absolutely. Not coming until next year, tho.

[Zaxxon]

Whelp, we're heading out on a ~5,000-mile road trip today. This will almost double our farthest prior trip. We're mainly sticking to interstates this time, but the sheer distance has me a little nervous--especially since one tire is patched after having taken a nail over the holiday weekend.

Fingers crossed!

[Freyland]

Thank you, and good luck on your trip!

[The Meal]

Looking forward to the after-trip review (and hopefully some photos!). Best luck.

[stessier]

Garage
Mostly local to 40 minute drives, but sometimes I get out
Ideally fit 4 (but there are 5 of us)
Budget is good, but not luxury-car good

Thank you

I own a 2022 Mach-E Premium ER (extended range) and a 2019 Premium Bolt. The Mach-E has a 300 mile range on a 91 kWh battery while the Bolt comes in at 260 miles on a 66 kWh battery (after the battery recall was completed) according to the EPA. The Mach-E max charge rate is around 150 kW while the Bolt is 50 kW. Both claim 10-80% charging in 40 minutes when connected to the appropriate DC fast charger. I've never taken the Bolt on a trip that required fast charging and haven't had an issue (outside of the battery recall) in 55k miles. We just got back from a 2500 mile road trip in the Mach-E with 4 people for 2 weeks and while it was a bit cramped due to our excessive (imo) packing, it was doable and no one complained.

After all that, though, if I were shopping today, I think I'd be targeting the Ioniq 5. It can take advantage of the full speed of 350 kW chargers going from 10-80% in 18 minutes making long road trips that much easier. It has essentially the same cargo space as the Mach-E (although no frunk). What I really like is that is has a heads-up display in addition to some well laid out screens. It is only rated for 256 miles by the EPA, but I have no trouble with that around town and the added charging capabilities would quickly make up for it on any long trip. It starts right around 50k, still qualifies for the full $7500 federal tax credit, and at least around here, is actually available for sale. If you were looking at a Mach-E, unless you were willing to go for a Select model with lesser range, you're looking at a 2023 and most likely a 9 month wait...at which point the tax credit will likely be in the phase out period (meaning something less than the full amount).

The best deal, though, is probably a Bolt EUV. At least around here, after incentives you can get a Premium for right around $32k and an LT around $28k. While road trips are possible in it, cargo space is quite limited and I'm not sure anything more than a weekend away would really work for more than 1 person. If you only want to use it as an around town car, though, I'm not sure it can be beat.

And if you want to completely break the bank, look at the Porsche Taycan Turbo.

[stessier]

Whelp, we're heading out on a ~5,000-mile road trip today. This will almost double our farthest prior trip. We're mainly sticking to interstates this time, but the sheer distance has me a little nervous--especially since one tire is patched after having taken a nail over the holiday weekend.

Fingers crossed!

Egads, good luck! Is this in the Model X? And how many days will you be gone? Driving 1200 miles over 3 days made me realize I'm getting way too old for this.