Election integrity and the transfer of power

[Holman]

MAGA: "Let's Go Brandon! (By which I really mean [snicker, snicker] Fuck Joe Biden!)"

Biden: "I'm just going to say it, people: Fuck fascism."

MAGA: "[Convulsive weeping] Ma civilitee!!!!"

[LawBeefaroni]

MAGA: "Let's Go Brandon! (By which I really mean [snicker, snicker] Fuck Joe Biden!)"

Biden: "I'm just going to say it, people: Fuck fascism."

MAGA: "[Convulsive weeping] Ma civilitee!!!!"

All that defense of the "Fuck Biden" flags and signs everywhere. There were stories every week about some municipality or other dealing with it.





Now? How dare he.

[Unagi]

Calculated or not, the crocodile tears are delicious.

https://twitter.com/FussiliJ/status/156 ... P3Ut1be6Zg

This is not aimed at you Zaxxon, I just felt this twitter-shot was a good lead-up to a question I'm wondering about...

Are we prepared to say our "Let's go Brandon" OO members are flirting with Fascism?
Are we prepared to say our "Let's go Brandon" OO members are Fascists?

or is that forum-politically hard for some to actually come out and say, even when they support Biden's declaration.

[Zaxxon]

It is very difficult for me to accept that anyone still supporting MAGA supports democracy. Or maybe a bit more charitably, if you're still on the MAGA train you're either against democracy or you're very much not intelligent.

[Zarathud]

Are we prepared to say our "Let's go Brandon" OO members are flirting with Fascism?
Are we prepared to say our "Let's go Brandon" OO members are Fascists?

or is that forum-politically hard for some to actually come out and say, even when they support Biden's declaration.

Not hard at all. Some are flirting but playing hard to get. Others, well … let’s just say Rip even bought the (stormtrooper) uniform.

[Kraken]

Are we prepared to say our "Let's go Brandon" OO members are flirting with Fascism?
Are we prepared to say our "Let's go Brandon" OO members are Fascists?

or is that forum-politically hard for some to actually come out and say, even when they support Biden's declaration.

Oooo, an OO throwdown. I like it.

The charitable option is that our MAGA members somehow still don't know or can't admit that they were played. They bought the Big Lie and can't let it go.

If they're MAGA because they love liberal tears, then they're just trolls.

If they're MAGA because it's their tribe's culture, then yeah, they're flirting with fascism.*

If they're MAGA because they believe their tribe should rule America at any cost, they're fascists.

If they've thrown in with the Nat-Cs and Qanon and the various white supremacy militias, then "fascist" isn't a strong enough word.

*They could choose to reject fascism and still back their tribe's political agenda -- free guns, no social net, anti-immigration, anti-abortion, anti-union, low taxes and wages, etc. -- by supporting mainstream Republicans. Although I abhor those beliefs myself, they aren't fascist.

[Rip]

It is very difficult for me to accept that anyone still supporting MAGA supports democracy. Or maybe a bit more charitably, if you're still on the MAGA train you're either against democracy or you're very much not intelligent.

“A simple democracy is the devil’s own government.”
— Benjamin Rush

[hepcat]

“Covfefe!”

-an orange guy

P.S. that Rip is not a fan of democracy is not news. Check his posting history.

[Isgrimnur]

It is very difficult for me to accept that anyone still supporting MAGA supports democracy. Or maybe a bit more charitably, if you're still on the MAGA train you're either against democracy or you're very much not intelligent.

“A simple democracy is the devil’s own government.”
— Benjamin Rush

It's a good thing we're an eminently corruptible republic, then, isn't it?

[Kraken]

“Covfefe!”

Gesundheit!

MAGAts say that America is a constitutional republic and was never a democracy to begin with. Nothing to see here, just a republic being Republican.

[gbasden]

It is very difficult for me to accept that anyone still supporting MAGA supports democracy. Or maybe a bit more charitably, if you're still on the MAGA train you're either against democracy or you're very much not intelligent.

Yeah, I think that's pretty clear. If you are supporting those that tried to stage a coup, if you are supporting people trying to undermine the state levers of democracy to override the will of the voters, if you are ok with people calling for political violence, then yes, you are a fascist.

[LordMortis]

“Covfefe!”

Gesundheit!

MAGAts say that America is a constitutional republic and was never a democracy to begin with. Nothing to see here, just a republic being Republican.

They used to say a democracy is what you have in communist Russia until they didn't want to hurt Putin's feelings. Now it's what they have in socialist Europe. Their leaders love shell games and they love to repeat what they hear on on their favorite political meme circulator. "We're a constitutional republic" sophistry a sure way to get me to shut me off a conversation.

[malchior]

If you want some background the running theory is that CNN is being MAGA-tized at the behest of John Malone who is a huge bundler/donor of MAGA causes and once a rival of Rupert Murdoch over control of Newscorp in the 90s.

CNN is in flux. It has a new owner, and a new boss, who promises to remake the news channel and has told employees to be prepared for “a time of change.”

Most of those changes have yet to manifest. But one of the first ones — canceling its long-running Reliable Sources show and pushing out anchor Brian Stelter — has already unsettled some CNN employees and viewers.

But the bigger question floating over one of the world’s largest and most important news organizations is why it’s changing. Is it because the CEO of Warner Bros. Discovery, its new owner, wants an overhaul? Or is it at the behest of a conservative billionaire investor in the company who sits on its board?

ugh. I hope this isn't the case. This is part of the Orban playbook - get people friendly to the authoritarian installed in media outlets.

It's definitely looking weird over at CNN. The story straddles the line but I wonder why this needs "balanced" coverage in the first place.
https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1566482334911606784

[Pyperkub]

Oooo, an OO throwdown. I like it.


*They could choose to reject fascism and still back their tribe's political agenda -- free guns, no social net, anti-immigration, anti-abortion, anti-union, low taxes and wages, etc. -- by supporting mainstream Republicans. Although I abhor those beliefs myself, they aren't fascist.

With the caveat that they embrace and accept responsibility for the consequences of those policies and not simply say that those consequences are the liberals fault.

One of those consequences being the other Republicans who are turning to fascism, in large part because of the consequences of those policies.

[Kraken]

Oooo, an OO throwdown. I like it.


*They could choose to reject fascism and still back their tribe's political agenda -- free guns, no social net, anti-immigration, anti-abortion, anti-union, low taxes and wages, etc. -- by supporting mainstream Republicans. Although I abhor those beliefs myself, they aren't fascist.

With the caveat that they embrace and accept responsibility for the consequences of those policies and not simply say that those consequences are the liberals fault.

One of those consequences being the other Republicans who are turning to fascism, in large part because of the consequences of those policies.

Elaborate. How are mainstream GOP policies turning MAGA Republicans fascist? I don't follow your reasoning.

[Daehawk]

Newly obtained surveillance video shows fake Trump elector escorted operatives into Georgia county's elections office before voting machine breach

Surveillance video shows Cathy Latham with Scott Hall entering the Coffee County Elections office on January 7, 2021, along with a third unknown individual. CNN

A Republican county official in Georgia escorted two operatives working with an attorney for former President Donald Trump into the county's election offices on the same day a voting system there was breached, newly obtained video shows.

The breach is now under investigation by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and is of interest to the Fulton County District Attorney, who is conducting a wider criminal probe of interference in the 2020 election.

The video sheds more light on how an effort spearheaded by lawyers and others around Trump to seek evidence of voter fraud was executed on the ground from Georgia to Michigan to Colorado, often with the assistance of sympathetic local officials.

In the surveillance video, which was obtained by CNN, Cathy Latham, a former GOP chairwoman of Coffee County who is under criminal investigation for posing as a fake elector in 2020, escorts a team of pro-Trump operatives to the county's elections office on January 7, 2021, the same day a voting system there is known to have been breached.

The two men seen in the video with Latham, Scott Hall and Paul Maggio, have acknowledged that they successfully gained access to a voting machine in Coffee County at the behest of Trump lawyer Sidney Powell.

[stimpy]

The charitable option is that our MAGA members somehow still don't know or can't admit that they were played. They bought the Big Lie and can't let it go.

We should point them out, round them all up and make them use a big "F" in their signature.
They should not be allowed to feel they can just throw their opinions around in your forum without being clearly marked and called out.

[malchior]

Newly obtained surveillance video shows fake Trump elector escorted operatives into Georgia county's elections office before voting machine breach

Surveillance video shows Cathy Latham with Scott Hall entering the Coffee County Elections office on January 7, 2021, along with a third unknown individual. CNN

As someone who works for a cybersecurity company with Digital Forensics capabilities this is something else. I surely hope they had a court order because it sounds on the surface like they took the word of outside attorneys to conduct a data investigation on someone else's property. Oh and that is possibly a crime. Whoops.

Maggio did not respond to CNN's request for comment. Instead, the data firm he works for, SullivanStrickler, which court documents show was hired by Powell, said in a statement to CNN that it was "directed by attorneys to contact county election officials to obtain access to certain data" in Georgia and also "directed by attorneys to distribute that data to certain individuals."

In an August 29, 2022, email, an attorney for SullivanStrickler acknowledges that Latham was the "primary point of contact" in coordinating the team's visit to Coffee County.

The firm said it had no reason to believe these attorneys would ask or direct it to "do anything either improper or illegal."

Hall, an Atlanta bail bondsman and Fulton County Republican poll watcher, did not reply to repeated requests for comment from CNN.

[malchior]

Don't dare call them fascists! FWIW this is an amazing resource. The thing that strikes me is that here in NJ we have one denier but the majority just didn't answer at all. Luckily most have no chance of victory.

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/ ... 0286228481

[LordMortis]

Tudor M. Dixon
Denial status:
Fully denied
Position source:
Detroit Free Press, PBS
Chance of winning:
8 in 100

Boy I hope the odds are as bad as they say. I, sadly, believe things still lean toward Dixon, though the odd have gone down, I think, with the Mare E Lego investigations. Though, they also seem to have fallen off the front page, so all I can do is wait and see.

[Smoove_B]

Oh lordy I hope there are tapes:

A Republican county official in Georgia escorted two operatives working with an attorney for former President Donald Trump into the county's election offices on the same day a voting system there was breached, newly obtained video shows.

The breach is now under investigation by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and is of interest to the Fulton County District Attorney, who is conducting a wider criminal probe of interference in the 2020 election.

The video sheds more light on how an effort spearheaded by lawyers and others around Trump to seek evidence of voter fraud was executed on the ground from Georgia to Michigan to Colorado, often with the assistance of sympathetic local officials.

Additionally:

The newly obtained surveillance video and text messages in the civil lawsuit suggest the fake elector plot and the effort to breach voting machines in Georgia were part of a larger, coordinated plan to subvert the 2020 election. Some of the same Trump lawyers and allies who helped orchestrate the effort to seat fake electors in states Trump lost in 2020 were also involved in attempts to gain unauthorized access to voting machines in numerous counties in states around the country seen as friendly toward the former president.

"The video reveals that Cathy Latham had a more significant role with the SullivanStrickler team's work in Coffee County than she claimed," said David Cross, an attorney representing election integrity groups suing Georgia over its voting systems and who has reviewed the video. "We can see her escort the team into the office that morning, for example. And she's an important connection to the effort to create a slate of Georgia electors who would have wrongly voted for Trump for the 2020 election, which now looks to be the subject of a grand jury investigation in Fulton County."

[Daehawk]

Did the US stop shooting traitors?

[Alefroth]

The charitable option is that our MAGA members somehow still don't know or can't admit that they were played. They bought the Big Lie and can't let it go.

We should point them out, round them all up and make them use a big "F" in their signature.
They should not be allowed to feel they can just throw their opinions around in your forum without being clearly marked and called out.

Shouldn't we all expect to be called out when we voice a ludicrous opinion?

[Alefroth]

I wonder how the Dominion lawsuits are progressing.

[Pyperkub]

Oh lordy I hope there are tapes:

A Republican county official in Georgia escorted two operatives working with an attorney for former President Donald Trump into the county's election offices on the same day a voting system there was breached, newly obtained video shows.

The breach is now under investigation by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and is of interest to the Fulton County District Attorney, who is conducting a wider criminal probe of interference in the 2020 election.

The video sheds more light on how an effort spearheaded by lawyers and others around Trump to seek evidence of voter fraud was executed on the ground from Georgia to Michigan to Colorado, often with the assistance of sympathetic local officials.

Additionally:

The newly obtained surveillance video and text messages in the civil lawsuit suggest the fake elector plot and the effort to breach voting machines in Georgia were part of a larger, coordinated plan to subvert the 2020 election. Some of the same Trump lawyers and allies who helped orchestrate the effort to seat fake electors in states Trump lost in 2020 were also involved in attempts to gain unauthorized access to voting machines in numerous counties in states around the country seen as friendly toward the former president.

"The video reveals that Cathy Latham had a more significant role with the SullivanStrickler team's work in Coffee County than she claimed," said David Cross, an attorney representing election integrity groups suing Georgia over its voting systems and who has reviewed the video. "We can see her escort the team into the office that morning, for example. And she's an important connection to the effort to create a slate of Georgia electors who would have wrongly voted for Trump for the 2020 election, which now looks to be the subject of a grand jury investigation in Fulton County."

Per your article, there are

[Octavious]

Blame Trump all we want. This is just Mitch's decades of work finally paying off. Just imagine a competent person and what they will get away with. We're so hosed.

[Smoove_B]

Per your article, there are

Indeed. But I'm sure it still won't be enough to convince people of what's happened (and what will continue to happen).

[stimpy]

The charitable option is that our MAGA members somehow still don't know or can't admit that they were played. They bought the Big Lie and can't let it go.

We should point them out, round them all up and make them use a big "F" in their signature.
They should not be allowed to feel they can just throw their opinions around in your forum without being clearly marked and called out.

Shouldn't we all expect to be called out when we voice a ludicrous opinion?

I'm just curious who you guys label as MAGA members.
Pretty sure some think that I am, but that would only go to show how wrong you guys might be.

[hepcat]

The charitable option is that our MAGA members somehow still don't know or can't admit that they were played. They bought the Big Lie and can't let it go.

We should point them out, round them all up and make them use a big "F" in their signature.
They should not be allowed to feel they can just throw their opinions around in your forum without being clearly marked and called out.

Shouldn't we all expect to be called out when we voice a ludicrous opinion?

I'm just curious who you guys label as MAGA members.
Pretty sure some think that I am, but that would only go to show how wrong you guys might be.

You're just a contrarian. If we all were MAGA, you’d be anti-MAGA. That’s your shtick. Trolling.

[El Guapo]

I would say that the number of Republicans who are outright fascists is pretty small - I'd say essentially just the "christian nationalist" subset of the GOP electorate. And I don't think we have any here. The problem is that there are a LOT of people who will support the GOP on a partisan basis regardless of how accommodating the GOP becomes to christian nationalism, and there are a lot of anti-anti Trumpists. Which unfortunately means that, especially when combined with our anti-majoritarian system flaws, means that the GOP is a great vehicle for christian nationalists / fascists to use to get power and to entrench themselves in power.

[Holman]

https://twitter.com/HeathMayo/status/15 ... 9Ke4VUeD4A

[Isgrimnur]

Let them lose.

[Holman]

Let them lose.

One of our two political parties overwhelmingly denies, contests, or strategically avoids commenting on the Constitutional process by which the USA has continued for almost a quarter-millennium.

[Pyperkub]

I would say that the number of Republicans who are outright fascists is pretty small - I'd say essentially just the "christian nationalist" subset of the GOP electorate. And I don't think we have any here. The problem is that there are a LOT of people who will support the GOP on a partisan basis regardless of how accommodating the GOP becomes to christian nationalism, and there are a lot of anti-anti Trumpists. Which unfortunately means that, especially when combined with our anti-majoritarian system flaws, means that the GOP is a great vehicle for christian nationalists / fascists to use to get power and to entrench themselves in power.

Looking the other way didn't work out so well the last couple of times countries tried it.

Also, you need to remember that a whopping 95% of Congressional Republicans voted against Impeachment for January 6th. I'm perfectly fine painting them ALL as refusing to uphold their Oath of Office in support of a fascist, and do think they all should be grilled incessantly, and actually ineligible for office, just like the New Mexico guy.

[Pyperkub]

I wonder how the Dominion lawsuits are progressing.

Not good (for Fox):

The November 2020 email from an anguished Fox News news producer to colleagues sent up a flare amid a fusillade of false claims.

The producer warned: Fox cannot let host Jeanine Pirro back on the air. She is pulling conspiracy theories from dark corners of the Web to justify then-President Donald Trump's lies that the election had been stolen from him. The existence of the email, confirmed by two people with direct knowledge of it, is first publicly disclosed by NPR in this story

[El Guapo]

I would say that the number of Republicans who are outright fascists is pretty small - I'd say essentially just the "christian nationalist" subset of the GOP electorate. And I don't think we have any here. The problem is that there are a LOT of people who will support the GOP on a partisan basis regardless of how accommodating the GOP becomes to christian nationalism, and there are a lot of anti-anti Trumpists. Which unfortunately means that, especially when combined with our anti-majoritarian system flaws, means that the GOP is a great vehicle for christian nationalists / fascists to use to get power and to entrench themselves in power.

Looking the other way didn't work out so well the last couple of times countries tried it.

Also, you need to remember that a whopping 95% of Congressional Republicans voted against Impeachment for January 6th. I'm perfectly fine painting them ALL as refusing to uphold their Oath of Office in support of a fascist, and do think they all should be grilled incessantly, and actually ineligible for office, just like the New Mexico guy.

It sounds like you think we are disagreeing, but we are not. If America ultimately descends into a semi-fascist authoritarian government, it won't matter much who was an outright fascist and who was merely fine with enabling them.

[Alefroth]

I wonder how the Dominion lawsuits are progressing.

Not good (for Fox):

The November 2020 email from an anguished Fox News news producer to colleagues sent up a flare amid a fusillade of false claims.

The producer warned: Fox cannot let host Jeanine Pirro back on the air. She is pulling conspiracy theories from dark corners of the Web to justify then-President Donald Trump's lies that the election had been stolen from him. The existence of the email, confirmed by two people with direct knowledge of it, is first publicly disclosed by NPR in this story

That's something at least.

[Pyperkub]

I would say that the number of Republicans who are outright fascists is pretty small - I'd say essentially just the "christian nationalist" subset of the GOP electorate. And I don't think we have any here. The problem is that there are a LOT of people who will support the GOP on a partisan basis regardless of how accommodating the GOP becomes to christian nationalism, and there are a lot of anti-anti Trumpists. Which unfortunately means that, especially when combined with our anti-majoritarian system flaws, means that the GOP is a great vehicle for christian nationalists / fascists to use to get power and to entrench themselves in power.

Looking the other way didn't work out so well the last couple of times countries tried it.

Also, you need to remember that a whopping 95% of Congressional Republicans voted against Impeachment for January 6th. I'm perfectly fine painting them ALL as refusing to uphold their Oath of Office in support of a fascist, and do think they all should be grilled incessantly, and actually ineligible for office, just like the New Mexico guy.

It sounds like you think we are disagreeing, but we are not. If America ultimately descends into a semi-fascist authoritarian government, it won't matter much who was an outright fascist and who was merely fine with enabling them.

Yah, I should have said "We" need to remember.

[stimpy]

The charitable option is that our MAGA members somehow still don't know or can't admit that they were played. They bought the Big Lie and can't let it go.

We should point them out, round them all up and make them use a big "F" in their signature.
They should not be allowed to feel they can just throw their opinions around in your forum without being clearly marked and called out.

Shouldn't we all expect to be called out when we voice a ludicrous opinion?

I'm just curious who you guys label as MAGA members.
Pretty sure some think that I am, but that would only go to show how wrong you guys might be.

You're just a contrarian. If we all were MAGA, you’d be anti-MAGA. That’s your shtick. Trolling.

No I'm not......

[hepcat]