The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

[Kraken]

Butt really, what IS going on there? It's seems like there's clearly more than just Donald in his pants.

If the photo isn't doctored, it's probably a diaper, which he's long been rumored to need.

[Daehawk]

Butt really, what IS going on there? It's seems like there's clearly more than just Donald in his pants.

If the photo isn't doctored, it's probably a diaper, which he's long been rumored to need.

Thats the truth Ive heard.

[Carpet_pissr]

Please stop the mental butt probing, I’m getting a bit queasy.

[Daehawk]

[Alefroth]

Butt really, what IS going on there? It's seems like there's clearly more than just Donald in his pants.

If the photo isn't doctored, it's probably a diaper, which he's long been rumored to need.

I don't think it's doctored. When I saw the clip I thought the same thing. A diaper makes sense, but fark, can't he afford the slimline ones at least?

[Unagi]

I honestly think that he really just has a very large ass.

It would make sense.

[Freyland]

Maybe he just made a deposit after hearing about his latest legal setbacks.

[Daehawk]

Maybe he hit up the Taco Bell Drive Thru.

[Holman]

Given Trump's narcissism and vanity, I'm surprised that he allowed himself to be filmed from that angle.

Surely there was a desk he could have s(h)at behind.

[hepcat]

Nicely done.

[LordMortis]

I honestly think that he really just ihas a very large ass.

It would make sense.

[Unagi]

I honestly think that he really just ihas a very large ass.

It would make sense.

Bingo

[hepcat]

I honestly think that he really just ihas a very large ass.

It would make sense.

let's leave Eric out of this.

[Defiant]

I'm guessing the documents have to be next to his brain for him to declassify them by thinking.

[Grifman]

I usually try the give judges and the courts the benefit of the doubt but this judge continues to bend over backwards for Trump:

[Holman]

I'm guessing the documents have to be next to his brain for him to declassify them by thinking.

Don't underestimate the proximity of Trump's head to his ass.

[Defiant]

I'm guessing the documents have to be next to his brain for him to declassify them by thinking.

Don't underestimate the proximity of Trump's head to his ass.

Well, I was suggesting his brain was in his ass, but same difference.

[malchior]

I usually try the give judges and the courts the benefit of the doubt but this judge continues to bend over backwards for Trump

It isn't just this judge. He has gotten preferential treatment from SCOTUS as well several times. All throughout his Presidency they played defense for him by slow playing cases. This judge is taking her cues from them. Drearie had a reasonable schedule laid out and she trampled all over him to push the entire calendar out in Trump's favor as well in this revision. It's a farce and with the other events across the judiciary this year, it really is finally proving out that we have major, major problems with the judiciary.

Edit: At least in this case, the damage here is relatively light. It delays the non-classified side of the investigation which is not nearly as important. It's more that any last benefit of the doubt is exhausted at this point.

[Grifman]

But of course there is dissension on the Trump legal team:

[Octavious]

Doesn't seem like it matters what he does. The courts are so slanted in his favor that he will skate away like always. It's insane to me that they can't move the case away from such a biased judge that he freaking appointed.

[Dramatist]

Remember that old episode of the Simpsons where Mr. Burns had what the Dr. called “Three Stooges Syndrome “? This was a very large number of deadly diseases, any of which on its own would kill him, but there were so many of them they balanced each other out. Thus making him pretty much immortal.

Do you ever wonder that Trump saw that episode and thought that he should try that with crime?

It’s just me wondering that, isn’t it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blackhawk]

There's a poetic logic to it. As long as you can keep falling further, you will never hit the bottom.

[malchior]

The argument boils down to Trump is special and deserves the benefit of the doubt. Essentially expedite slowing down the case because he is special, then slow down all appeals to preserve his specialness. It's the usual Trump strategy.

[El Guapo]

The argument boils down to Trump is special and deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I hate to say it, but honestly feels like this is where they'll probably get what they want. Non-Trumpist conservative judges have often balked at signing on to decisions that are too bananaland crazy, but 90% of them are fine with helping out Trump through sheer delay.

[malchior]

I agree that the chances are high he'll get the delay. It's a low-risk way to help Trump versus the Cannon YOLO approach. It however is probably the most important court case in the land right now and a lot of eyes are on it. Further support for Trump is going to continue to put pressure on the notion that justice is definitely not blind. Public confidence is collapsing in the courts. Bad things usually follow when that happens in democracies. I just can't believe we're going to throw it away for this piece of trash.

[El Guapo]

I agree that the chances are high he'll get the delay. It's a low-risk way to help Trump versus the Cannon YOLO approach. It however is probably the most important court case in the land right now and a lot of eyes are on it. Further support for Trump is going to continue to put pressure on the notion that justice is definitely not blind. Public confidence is collapsing in the courts. Bad things usually follow when that happens in democracies. I just can't believe we're going to throw it away for this piece of trash.

Yeah a lot of eyes are on it but excessive process doesn't get the press that objectively bonkers rulings do.

[Kurth]

The argument boils down to Trump is special and deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I hate to say it, but honestly feels like this is where they'll probably get what they want. Non-Trumpist conservative judges have often balked at signing on to decisions that are too bananaland crazy, but 90% of them are fine with helping out Trump through sheer delay.

Just to be clear, this isn't really delay. A January 2023 hearing on this appeal is the normal course. If we're talking about "delay," here at least, we're just talking about the baked-in, regular delays encountered in the justice system all the time. The wheels of justice turn, but they are certainly not fast.

Also, even if the 11th Cir. does stick with the regular schedule and deny the DOJ request to accelerate things, I don't think it's the end of the world. They already got the stay with respect to the docs marked as classified, so, presumably, that part -- the most important part -- of the DOJ case is proceeding.

And, it's worth noting that the DOJ made a tactical decision here: When they moved for the stay, they could have asked for a stay the entire stupid district court decision. As they point out in their own brief now seeking an accelerated schedule on appeal, many of the arguments they made in support of their partial stay applied equally to the classified and non-classified docs. They decided NOT to go for a stay of the whole decision, though, in order to make their argument regarding the classified stuff nearly bullet proof. The down side of that is that it's a harder sell to now argue that the appeal needs to be expedited.

[El Guapo]

The argument boils down to Trump is special and deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I hate to say it, but honestly feels like this is where they'll probably get what they want. Non-Trumpist conservative judges have often balked at signing on to decisions that are too bananaland crazy, but 90% of them are fine with helping out Trump through sheer delay.

Just to be clear, this isn't really delay. A January 2023 hearing on this appeal is the normal course. If we're talking about "delay," here at least, we're just talking about the baked-in, regular delays encountered in the justice system all the time. The wheels of justice turn, but they are certainly not fast.

Also, even if the 11th Cir. does stick with the regular schedule and deny the DOJ request to accelerate things, I don't think it's the end of the world. They already got the stay with respect to the docs marked as classified, so, presumably, that part -- the most important part -- of the DOJ case is proceeding.

And, it's worth noting that the DOJ made a tactical decision here: When they moved for the stay, they could have asked for a stay the entire stupid district court decision. As they point out in their own brief now seeking an accelerated schedule on appeal, many of the arguments they made in support of their partial stay applied equally to the classified and non-classified docs. They decided NOT to go for a stay of the whole decision, though, in order to make their argument regarding the classified stuff nearly bullet proof. The down side of that is that it's a harder sell to now argue that the appeal needs to be expedited.

I am aware of that. But it's excessive delay in the context of legal claims that should've been laughed out of court by the district court judge. The point is that Trump can use this shit to delay proceedings against him for years, often to the point at which they become effectively moot. It's nothing illegal, it just frustrates accountability in any practical sense.

[malchior]

The argument boils down to Trump is special and deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I hate to say it, but honestly feels like this is where they'll probably get what they want. Non-Trumpist conservative judges have often balked at signing on to decisions that are too bananaland crazy, but 90% of them are fine with helping out Trump through sheer delay.

Just to be clear, this isn't really delay. A January 2023 hearing on this appeal is the normal course. If we're talking about "delay," here at least, we're just talking about the baked-in, regular delays encountered in the justice system all the time. The wheels of justice turn, but they are certainly not fast.

Also, even if the 11th Cir. does stick with the regular schedule and deny the DOJ request to accelerate things, I don't think it's the end of the world. They already got the stay with respect to the docs marked as classified, so, presumably, that part -- the most important part -- of the DOJ case is proceeding.

And, it's worth noting that the DOJ made a tactical decision here: When they moved for the stay, they could have asked for a stay the entire stupid district court decision. As they point out in their own brief now seeking an accelerated schedule on appeal, many of the arguments they made in support of their partial stay applied equally to the classified and non-classified docs. They decided NOT to go for a stay of the whole decision, though, in order to make their argument regarding the classified stuff nearly bullet proof. The down side of that is that it's a harder sell to now argue that the appeal needs to be expedited.

I am aware of that. But it's excessive delay in the context of legal claims that should've been laughed out of court by the district court judge. The point is that Trump can use this shit to delay proceedings against him for years, often to the point at which they become effectively moot. It's nothing illegal, it just frustrates accountability in any practical sense.

Exactly (edit here) and the the big picture view is the right way to think about the delays. For those of us watching this happen over and over it isn't just frustrating. It is enraging. We see the powerful use these techniques to get away with crime while regular people are often forced to plead out. Regular people don't pick judges. Regular people don't get deference shown to them. And then we hear empty platitudes about equal justice. It's a farce and it's corrosive. People lack faith in this system for very real reasons now. This is the stuff that unmakes nations. It is perhaps time to stop making excuses for a system unable to protect us from bad actors.

[pr0ner]

It's nothing illegal, it just frustrates accountability in any practical sense.

It's a feature, not a bug.

[malchior]

It's nothing illegal, it just frustrates accountability in any practical sense.

It's a feature, not a bug.

A feature for who at this point?

[Kurth]

The argument boils down to Trump is special and deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I hate to say it, but honestly feels like this is where they'll probably get what they want. Non-Trumpist conservative judges have often balked at signing on to decisions that are too bananaland crazy, but 90% of them are fine with helping out Trump through sheer delay.

Just to be clear, this isn't really delay. A January 2023 hearing on this appeal is the normal course. If we're talking about "delay," here at least, we're just talking about the baked-in, regular delays encountered in the justice system all the time. The wheels of justice turn, but they are certainly not fast.

Also, even if the 11th Cir. does stick with the regular schedule and deny the DOJ request to accelerate things, I don't think it's the end of the world. They already got the stay with respect to the docs marked as classified, so, presumably, that part -- the most important part -- of the DOJ case is proceeding.

And, it's worth noting that the DOJ made a tactical decision here: When they moved for the stay, they could have asked for a stay the entire stupid district court decision. As they point out in their own brief now seeking an accelerated schedule on appeal, many of the arguments they made in support of their partial stay applied equally to the classified and non-classified docs. They decided NOT to go for a stay of the whole decision, though, in order to make their argument regarding the classified stuff nearly bullet proof. The down side of that is that it's a harder sell to now argue that the appeal needs to be expedited.

I am aware of that. But it's excessive delay in the context of legal claims that should've been laughed out of court by the district court judge. The point is that Trump can use this shit to delay proceedings against him for years, often to the point at which they become effectively moot. It's nothing illegal, it just frustrates accountability in any practical sense.

Exactly (edit here) and the the big picture view is the right way to think about the delays. For those of us watching this happen over and over it isn't just frustrating. It is enraging. We see the powerful use these techniques to get away with crime while regular people are often forced to plead out. Regular people don't pick judges. Regular people don't get deference shown to them. And then we hear empty platitudes about equal justice. It's a farce and it's corrosive. People lack faith in this system for very real reasons now. This is the stuff that unmakes nations. It is perhaps time to stop making excuses for a system unable to protect us from bad actors.

I'm not arguing against these points. Just pointing out that they're not really applicable to this particular instance. Trump isn't being shown deference and he's not asking for a delay, despite the way the initial tweet misleadingly frames it. Trump is asking that the normal process be observed. It's the government asking for special expedited treatment here, in part, because the government didn't seek a stay of the entire district court decision at the outset. Appellate courts hate to deal with stuff piecemeal. I'm sure there will be judges on the 11th Cir. asking the DOJ, "If it's so critical that we accelerate the process here, why didn't you ask us for a broader stay at the outset?" And that's not an unreasonable question.

It's not that the sky isn't falling: I just don't think this is an example that supports a "sky is falling" narrative.

[El Guapo]

The argument boils down to Trump is special and deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I hate to say it, but honestly feels like this is where they'll probably get what they want. Non-Trumpist conservative judges have often balked at signing on to decisions that are too bananaland crazy, but 90% of them are fine with helping out Trump through sheer delay.

Just to be clear, this isn't really delay. A January 2023 hearing on this appeal is the normal course. If we're talking about "delay," here at least, we're just talking about the baked-in, regular delays encountered in the justice system all the time. The wheels of justice turn, but they are certainly not fast.

Also, even if the 11th Cir. does stick with the regular schedule and deny the DOJ request to accelerate things, I don't think it's the end of the world. They already got the stay with respect to the docs marked as classified, so, presumably, that part -- the most important part -- of the DOJ case is proceeding.

And, it's worth noting that the DOJ made a tactical decision here: When they moved for the stay, they could have asked for a stay the entire stupid district court decision. As they point out in their own brief now seeking an accelerated schedule on appeal, many of the arguments they made in support of their partial stay applied equally to the classified and non-classified docs. They decided NOT to go for a stay of the whole decision, though, in order to make their argument regarding the classified stuff nearly bullet proof. The down side of that is that it's a harder sell to now argue that the appeal needs to be expedited.

I am aware of that. But it's excessive delay in the context of legal claims that should've been laughed out of court by the district court judge. The point is that Trump can use this shit to delay proceedings against him for years, often to the point at which they become effectively moot. It's nothing illegal, it just frustrates accountability in any practical sense.

Exactly (edit here) and the the big picture view is the right way to think about the delays. For those of us watching this happen over and over it isn't just frustrating. It is enraging. We see the powerful use these techniques to get away with crime while regular people are often forced to plead out. Regular people don't pick judges. Regular people don't get deference shown to them. And then we hear empty platitudes about equal justice. It's a farce and it's corrosive. People lack faith in this system for very real reasons now. This is the stuff that unmakes nations. It is perhaps time to stop making excuses for a system unable to protect us from bad actors.

I'm not arguing against these points. Just pointing out that they're not really applicable to this particular instance. Trump isn't being shown deference and he's not asking for a delay, despite the way the initial tweet misleadingly frames it. Trump is asking that the normal process be observed. It's the government asking for special expedited treatment here, in part, because the government didn't seek a stay of the entire district court decision at the outset. Appellate courts hate to deal with stuff piecemeal. I'm sure there will be judges on the 11th Cir. asking the DOJ, "If it's so critical that we accelerate the process here, why didn't you ask us for a broader stay at the outset?" And that's not an unreasonable question.

It's not that the sky isn't falling: I just don't think this is an example that supports a "sky is falling" narrative.

I mean, we'll see how this plays out. This isn't a facially crazy request, and I'm not saying that the sky is falling or that everything's going to hell because of it. And we'll see how the 11th Circuit handles it - maybe they'll promptly reverse Cannon on the special and it'll all be good. All I'm saying is that I'm more concerned about how appellate courts will handle this than I was on the classified materials ruling (even though the classified materials ruling was more immediately consequential). Most of the judges confirmed under Trump are conservative but seemingly only a handful (like Cannon) are out-and-out MAGA Trumpists. But even the GOP establishment-type judges are fine with helping Trump with unnecessary and unneeded delays even when the underlying claims are specious.

Like for this, would I be shocked if we wind up with a SCOTUS ruling in January 2024 that Cannon's special master decision was wrong, while all the while Cannon's been keeping DOJ from doing anything substantive?

[malchior]

I'm not arguing against these points. Just pointing out that they're not really applicable to this particular instance. Trump isn't being shown deference and he's not asking for a delay, despite the way the initial tweet misleadingly frames it.

How is the tweet misleading? It is just a statement of facts. No framing.

Trump is asking that the normal process be observed. It's the government asking for special expedited treatment here, in part, because the government didn't seek a stay of the entire district court decision at the outset. Appellate courts hate to deal with stuff piecemeal. I'm sure there will be judges on the 11th Cir. asking the DOJ, "If it's so critical that we accelerate the process here, why didn't you ask us for a broader stay at the outset?" And that's not an unreasonable question.

It's not that the sky isn't falling: I just don't think this is an example that supports a "sky is falling" narrative.

I disagree. The point I'm trying to make and others are making is that this crazy left turn into special masters is part and parcel of the sky in progress of falling. Saying this is all the system works is great and all. That's part of the problem! This starts with venue shopping to get bonkers rulings all the way to where we are now. And from that, they are getting unearned rewards in the form of any normal process. Expediting the appeal and ending this branch is the remedy. We can't fix the damage Cannon has done to rule of law but we can hope that other courts will step up and do the right thing.

Edit:

Like for this, would I be shocked if we wind up with a SCOTUS ruling in January 2024 that Cannon's special master decision was wrong, while all the while Cannon's been keeping DOJ from doing anything substantive?

Again total agreement. Nothing about this is on the face crazy. But as a whole we can see that our pride and joy - substantive due process under the law - has become all too onerous and inflexible as a process to deal with the flurry of attacks we are facing. That's the thing that worries me and why I think the sky is indeed falling. They delay/delay/delay to get favorable conditions to make it go away. And we see it happening over and over. It is breaking us.

[El Guapo]

To some degree this is "normal" rich person tactics. Rich people are significantly insulated from accountability in a lot of cases in part because process is expensive, so rich people can bleed non-rich people dry by burying them in process and motions and the like, even when the rich person is in the wrong and their arguments are very thin. Doesn't mean that rich people can completely ignore the rules, but it does mean that they can often get away with paying pennies on the dollar on the rare instances when they're held to account at all.

And with Trump he gets insulated not only by the rich person rules, but also because he's the de facto head of the leading conservative tribe.

Of course, there's only so much you can do about that, since you can't just cut the process short only for rich people. But it is aggravating.

[Alefroth]

Hopefully this doesn't have to get cross-posted in the SCOTUS thread. Why would the SC intervene in a ruling where he got what he wanted?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump- ... 022-10-04/

[malchior]

Hopefully this doesn't have to get cross-posted in the SCOTUS thread. Why would the SC intervene in a ruling where he got what he wanted?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump- ... 022-10-04/

They are asking SCOTUS to review the 11th circuit decision to override Cannon and allow the investigation about the classified documents to resume.

[Kurth]

Hopefully this doesn't have to get cross-posted in the SCOTUS thread. Why would the SC intervene in a ruling where he got what he wanted?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump- ... 022-10-04/

They are asking SCOTUS to review the 11th circuit decision to override Cannon and allow the investigation about the classified documents to resume.

There is not a snowball's chance in hell that happens. This may be where the DOJ tactic of limiting the scope of the stay request to the 11th Cir. is going to prove its worth. I think Trump is going to get eviscerated on this one.

[Alefroth]

Hopefully this doesn't have to get cross-posted in the SCOTUS thread. Why would the SC intervene in a ruling where he got what he wanted?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump- ... 022-10-04/

They are asking SCOTUS to review the 11th circuit decision to override Cannon and allow the investigation about the classified documents to resume.

Sounds like they still want to see the classified documents themselves.

In filings on Tuesday, Trump's lawyers urged the court to keep the stay in place and to allow them under the supervision of the special master, U.S Judge Raymond Dearie, to review all of the seized materials, including those marked classified.

[Victoria Raverna]

I guess Trump claimed that he sometime put classified mark on his personal documents?