The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:20 am

waitingtoconnect wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 2:05 am If Clinton, Obama or Biden had down this they’d either be up before a firing squad or be in a Federal SuperMax.

Look at the Jan 6 hearings evidence. Everyone around Trump was scared they’d all be in jail within the week. That’s why they didn’t act.

If they’d known they face No punishments do you think they’d not have been so scared.

I won't speak to Garland specifically. But I remember when we couldn't get a SC Justice picked in 14 months and then I remember seating one in less than a month. And the difference was... And yet the GOP thinks the failure of government and loss of faith in the legal system is because of the left.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:30 am

pr0ner wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:35 pm As a counterpoint to "oh nos the sky is falling" that permeates EVERY discussion here of EVERY piece of news that ever comes out anymore:

Funny because true, Homer, etc.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:54 pm

Here we go...again.

BREAKING: Supreme Court permits House to obtain Trump's tax returns.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:57 pm

Would be a shame if they got leaked...

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:56 pm

The special master process looks like it's gonna be shot down soon.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:12 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:54 pm Here we go...again.

BREAKING: Supreme Court permits House to obtain Trump's tax returns.

Just in time for the new GOP House majority to squash it.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:15 pm

At least treasury is in Biden's hands so they won't drag their feet on it so they'll have them for the ~15 working days between now and end of year. The system works!

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:17 pm

malchior wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:15 pm At least treasury is in Biden's hands so they won't drag their feet on it so they'll have them for the ~15 working days between now and end of year. The system works!

What'll be bitterly funny is if Warnock wins and the Senate subpoenas the tax returns, I bet we'll get a whole new round of cases evaluating whether Senate subpoenas are different from House subpoenas.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:28 pm

I find it fascinating that people are on Twitter right now arguing that this shows the system works. The district judge sat on the case for over 2 years to make his first ruling. Recently appointed by Trump no less. Then the appeals process took checks notes...11 months...further. To affirm a plain reading of the fucking law. It is preposterous.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:35 pm

Was not expecting a Thanksgiving document drop in response to a letter Trump's lawyers filed yesterday.

NEW: Special Counsel Smith - on thanksgiving - sends a letter to the 11th circuit pointing out a fatal flaw in one of trumps arguments in the documents case. Trump tried to argue a court forced the government to allow a special master in the Rudy case. ack Smith points out that’s a lie. First, it was the government’s idea for a special master in the Rudy case. Second, Rudy’s a lawyer. Third, docs were released on rolling basis. Finally, Rudy didn’t have a civil proceeding invoking bullshit jurisdiction.

Tweet has a link to the letter.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:30 pm

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:31 pm

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:09 pm

Former head of Canadian intelligence talks openly about the international cooperation elephant in the room. A good piece that doesn't even go to the logical ends that intelligence agencies are thinking about such as the possibility that Trump still has documents elsewhere.

Vincent Rigby saw a lot over his 30-year career in public service, much of it working with some of the most sensitive and secret intelligence issues in Canada.

But for all that experience, the former national security adviser to the prime minister found himself in a state of disbelief in August when he saw the FBI search the home of former U.S. president Donald Trump and leave with boxes of highly sensitive, classified information.

"I was absolutely stunned that based on the media reports that I saw, he had in his possession what are reputed to be very, very sensitive documents and it's just something that is unheard of," Rigby said in an interview with The Fifth Estate.

"Just disbelief that somebody could take those out of the White House, stick them, I presume, on a plane or in a truck, drive them down to Florida and then put them … effectively in a basement, it's just disbelief," said Rigby, now a visiting professor at the Max Bell School of Public Policy at McGill University in Montreal.

The material has set off a damage assessment by the U.S. intelligence community as it tries to understand what classified information was contained in the documents the former president had in his possession.

But the concern extends beyond just U.S. intelligence. The United States is a member of the Five Eyes, an intelligence-sharing organization that also includes Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand.

Rigby said any potential security breach for one member has a ripple effect within the entire group and would also reverberate through the halls of the dozen or so agencies that share and collect intelligence in Canada, including the Canadian Security and Intelligence Service (CSIS), and the Communications Security Establishment (CSE).

...

But experts say that because Canada relies so heavily on the U.S. for intelligence, any impact on its ability to collect information would be felt north of the border.

"Knowing the prime minister, he may well have reached out and had some pointed questions, if not directly from him, from a staff in the Prime Minister's Office: 'Do we need to be concerned? Are there any issues here? What's at stake?'" said Rigby, cautioning that he doesn't know if the prime minister has been briefed.

As national security and intelligence adviser, he was also responsible for co-ordinating the security intelligence community within Canada and liaising with allies, especially the U.S.

Rigby said if he was still in Ottawa in his former job, he'd likely be putting a call into his counterpart, U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan, "to say: 'OK, can you just give us a little bit of insight here as to what are these documents? And should we be concerned from a Canadian perspective?'"

Implications for Canada

The concern isn't theoretical, in part because what is reportedly in at least some of the documents relates directly to a current national security issue in Canada.

The Washington Post reported that some of the material recovered "described highly sensitive intelligence work aimed at China."

Chinese interference in Canadian elections and other national security concerns have been top of mind in Ottawa recently. At a meeting of the procedure and house affairs committee earlier this month, Michelle Tessier, deputy director of operations for CSIS, told members of Parliament about their concern about the Chinese Communist Party.

"They are an actor in foreign interference," Tessier told the committee on Nov. 1, "and we have said that publicly and I can state again that we are concerned about the activities regarding threats against the security of Canada, including foreign interference by the Chinese Communist Party."

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:37 pm

pr0ner wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:31 pm In a social media post, Trump admits taking (highly classified) documents "openly and transparently."

It's almost like he feels as long as he's doing it out in the open and no one is stopping him or holding him accountable,it's perfectly acceptable. I wonder where he's getting that idea though?

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:06 pm

"All the other presidents did it."

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:23 pm

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:45 pm

Oh the huge manatee.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:09 pm

Patsy Baloney is back!

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/01/politics ... index.html

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:50 pm

Katie Porter opening things up on a new front. She's going to need a bigger whiteboard.

https://naturalresources.house.gov/imo/ ... DACTED.pdf

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:51 pm

A lot of people are trumpeting this as major progress. Still it seems extremely troubling that two years after the fact we are now see that federal investigators didn't look at potentially criminal conduct at the highest levels around the false electors that have been widely reported. It tips the scales towards confirming the worries of some folks who commented over the last 1.5 years about Garland's weak response. The word of subpoenas is already splashing out. I expect some folks will cling to the idea that Garland's DOJ doesn't leak as the reason the DOJ only now apparently is starting to beat the bushes at the local level.

Special counsel Jack Smith has subpoenaed local officials in Arizona, Michigan and Wisconsin — three states that were central to former president Donald Trump’s failed plan to stay in power following the 2020 election — for any and all communications with Trump, his campaign and a long list of aides and allies.

The requests for records arrived in Dane County, Wis.; Maricopa County, Ariz.; and Wayne County, Mich., late last week, and in Milwaukee on Monday, officials said. They are among the first known subpoenas issued by Smith, who was named last month by Attorney General Merrick Garland to oversee the Jan. 6 Capitol attack case as well as the criminal probe of Trump’s possible mishandling of classified documents at his Florida home.

The subpoenas, at least three of which are dated Nov. 22, show that Smith is extending the Justice Department’s examination of the circumstances leading up to the Capitol attack to include local election officials and their potential interactions with the former president and his representatives. The virtually identical requests to Arizona and Wisconsin name Trump individually, in addition to employees, agents and attorneys for his campaign. Details of the Michigan subpoena, confirmed by Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, were not immediately available.

...

“I’m happy to participate in this process,” said George Christenson, the Milwaukee clerk, who confirmed the subpoena in a telephone interview Tuesday and provided a copy to The Washington Post.

The subpoena asks for communication with Trump and his campaign, including several key allies.

Christenson said he is not aware of any communications with his office that have not already been made public. But he speculated that federal investigators are hunting for new details about the Trump campaign’s efforts to convene illegitimate electors in key battleground states that Joe Biden narrowly won.

Dane County Clerk Scott McDonell confirmed receiving a similar subpoena.

“I am not aware of any significant communications that have not already been made public,” said McDonell, whose county encompasses Madison, the state capital.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:52 pm

Alefroth wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:50 pm Katie Porter opening things up on a new front. She's going to need a bigger whiteboard.

https://naturalresources.house.gov/imo/ ... DACTED.pdf

They were hunting deer on the King's Land!

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:57 pm

Trump Corp and Payroll Guilty on all counts apparently...

NOW: The jury has found the Trump Corporation and Trump Payroll Corporation guilty on ALL counts.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:02 pm

That's good news. It was somewhat expected since the CFO was cooperating but these complex cases sometimes don't work out for prosecutions. However, we'll have to see if it matters much both politically or for his businesses. The financial impact is going to be fairly modest.

Edit: Interesting commentary here about the scale here - NY Times

Just $1.62 million.

That’s the most that Donald J. Trump’s family business will have to pay now that it was convicted of tax fraud and other crimes at its trial in State Supreme Court in Manhattan.‌ ‌

The size of the fine underscores that while the conviction has forever tarred the Trump Organization’s name — and branded it a felon — the company is facing far less than a financial death sentence.‌ ‌And it helps explains why the company had been unwilling to plead guilty.

The Trump Organization resisted a deal even after its long-serving chief financial officer agreed to plead guilty and testify at the company’s trial, which is focused on off-the-books luxury perks that the company doled out to some of its executives. Prosecutors have not accused Mr. Trump, or anyone in his family, of taking part in the scheme.

Although the Trump Organization has maintained its innocence — and Mr. Trump has chalked up the case to a politically-motivated witch hunt — the company might have been more willing to strike a deal if it ‌had been facing a harsher punishment.‌ ‌Mr. Trump typically notched hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue during his presidency, making $1.62 million something of a rounding error.‌ ‌

A company, of course, cannot be imprisoned, and the two convicted Trump corporations are not publicly traded. As such, there will be no run on the company if the jury convicts. It has no regulators to punish it or public investors to flee from it.‌ ‌

The two corporations — the Trump Corporation and ‌the ‌Trump Payroll Corp. — are‌ also‌ not central to Mr. Trump’s moneymaking enterprise.

They largely perform back-office functions, employing and paying top executives, so they do not hold any loans, liquor licenses‌ or other privileges that might slip away in the wake of the conviction.‌ ‌

That’s not to say that the verdict ‌will‌ be painless.‌ ‌

It ‌could scare off potential lenders and business partners, or enable them to impose stricter terms on Mr. Trump. And the reputational toll from being a felon makes it harder to retain employees and, eventually, to ‌grow ‌expand the company.‌

While the cries of “witch hunt” appeal to Mr. Trump’s political base, the business world could well turn its back on him.‌ ‌

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:13 pm

I don't even see this even making a scratch. They will just say every company does the same stuff and they are just making an example of him for political reasons.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:38 pm

How could anything tarnish his reputation? His reputation consists entirely of tarnish already, and the only people I can imagine wanting to do business with him or being willing to trust him in business transactions are tarnish fetishists.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:49 pm

malchior wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:02 pm That's good news. It was somewhat expected since the CFO was cooperating but these complex cases sometimes don't work out for prosecutions. However, we'll have to see if it matters much both politically or for his businesses. The financial impact is going to be fairly modest.

Edit: Interesting commentary here about the scale here - NY Times

Just $1.62 million.

That’s the most that Donald J. Trump’s family business will have to pay now that it was convicted of tax fraud and other crimes at its trial in State Supreme Court in Manhattan.‌ ‌

The size of the fine underscores that while the conviction has forever tarred the Trump Organization’s name — and branded it a felon — the company is facing far less than a financial death sentence.‌ ‌And it helps explains why the company had been unwilling to plead guilty.

The Trump Organization resisted a deal even after its long-serving chief financial officer agreed to plead guilty and testify at the company’s trial, which is focused on off-the-books luxury perks that the company doled out to some of its executives. Prosecutors have not accused Mr. Trump, or anyone in his family, of taking part in the scheme.

Although the Trump Organization has maintained its innocence — and Mr. Trump has chalked up the case to a politically-motivated witch hunt — the company might have been more willing to strike a deal if it ‌had been facing a harsher punishment.‌ ‌Mr. Trump typically notched hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue during his presidency, making $1.62 million something of a rounding error.‌ ‌

A company, of course, cannot be imprisoned, and the two convicted Trump corporations are not publicly traded. As such, there will be no run on the company if the jury convicts. It has no regulators to punish it or public investors to flee from it.‌ ‌

The two corporations — the Trump Corporation and ‌the ‌Trump Payroll Corp. — are‌ also‌ not central to Mr. Trump’s moneymaking enterprise.

They largely perform back-office functions, employing and paying top executives, so they do not hold any loans, liquor licenses‌ or other privileges that might slip away in the wake of the conviction.‌ ‌

That’s not to say that the verdict ‌will‌ be painless.‌ ‌

It ‌could scare off potential lenders and business partners, or enable them to impose stricter terms on Mr. Trump. And the reputational toll from being a felon makes it harder to retain employees and, eventually, to ‌grow ‌expand the company.‌

While the cries of “witch hunt” appeal to Mr. Trump’s political base, the business world could well turn its back on him.‌ ‌

I would expect back taxes and interest, as well as the penalties tho... not really mentioned

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:06 pm

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:49 pmI would expect back taxes and interest, as well as the penalties tho... not really mentioned

That'd be the civil case I believe.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:12 pm

People actually keep on saying that even if he's a convicted felon he can still run for president. I mean they aren't wrong, but wouldn't you want to avoid someone like that?

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:50 pm

If I were Biden debating convicted felon Trump, every answer would incorporate that phrase. "I believe what my opponent, the convicted felon, is trying to say...." "Look folks, I'm no convicted felon like my opponent, but I do know the ins and outs of law and order," etc.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:54 pm

Honestly? Trump's base (as distinct from the GOP base) would likely see it as a badge of honor, sort of a living martyr. See how badly "they" want to shut him down? Hell, put him in prison (he can run from prison - others have) and his supporters will just 'rally' in orange jumpsuits.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:23 pm

YellowKing wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:50 pm If I were Biden debating convicted felon Trump, every answer would incorporate that phrase. "I believe what my opponent, the convicted felon, is trying to say...." "Look folks, I'm no convicted felon like my opponent, but I do know the ins and outs of law and order," etc.

Or he could go with the Trumpy version " I believe what felon-trump is trying to say..."

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:01 pm

The organization was convicted, without specifying Trump, by the reports I've read. Let's not engage in what we were just complaining about.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:51 pm

I was just commenting on potentially convicted Trump, I'm aware he hasn't been convicted of anything.....yet.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:27 am

Speaking of - forgot this bit of news. I wonder what prompted Bragg to wake up? Oh other folks started winning relatively complicated cases against Trump in his backyard.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:43 am

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:23 pm
YellowKing wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:50 pm If I were Biden debating convicted felon Trump, every answer would incorporate that phrase. "I believe what my opponent, the convicted felon, is trying to say...." "Look folks, I'm no convicted felon like my opponent, but I do know the ins and outs of law and order," etc.
Or he could go with the Trumpy version " I believe what felon-trump is trying to say..."

He could just turn the Trump nick name thing against him and just always refer to him as Felonious Trump.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:11 pm

LordMortis wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:43 am Felonious Trump.

I understood that reference.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:06 pm

Reminds me of my EQ character, Felonious Monk.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:30 pm

More classified documents found in Florida storage unit after it and other Trump properties were searched by a Trump hired outside team. They are attesting that there are no outstanding classified documents. It's super cool that the system which doggedly hunts down leakers gave Trump the latitude to hire his own team for this. I don't think enough people are paying attention to how absurd this situation is.

Lawyers for former president Donald Trump found at least two items marked classified after an outside team hired by Trump searched a storage unit in West Palm Beach, Fla., used by the former president, according to people familiar with the matter.

Those items were turned over to the FBI, according to those people, who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters.

The search was one of at least three searches conducted by an outside team of his properties for classified materials in recent weeks, after they were pressed by a federal judge to attest they had fully complied with a May grand jury subpoena to turn over all materials bearing classified markings, according to people familiar with the matter.

Emails released by the General Services Administration, which assists former presidents during their transition to private life, show that the government agency helped secure the storage unit at a private facility in West Palm Beach on July 21, 2021. The unit was needed to store items that had been held at an office in Northern Virginia used by Trump staffers in the months just after he left office.

...

Jay Bratt, the chief of the counterintelligence and export control section at the Justice Department, communicated to Trump’s lawyers after the FBI search that the department was concerned Trump still may not have returned all the classified documents in his possession. The Washington Post has previously reported that officials at the National Archives also believe that there may still be more records missing. Previous attempts by Trump’s attorneys to identify and return documents proved unsatisfactory to investigators.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:40 pm

Jaymann wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:06 pm Reminds me of my EQ character, Felonious Monk.

Felonious Monk was the name of my criminal organization in GTA: Online.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:49 pm

I would not want to sign the affidavit that I searched ALL of Trump’s real estate.