COVID-19 treatment and vaccine update thread

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Dec 23, 2022 3:09 pm

Wish I could say either of your stories is unusual, but I'm hearing a lot of the same from extended contacts. Situations where work parties or last-minute holiday gatherings ahead of this coming weekend are now resulting in positive tests.

Hope all continues to stay minor for everyone and you're better soon. Keeping windows open just a crack, running filters, wearing masks, etc... will definitely reduce risk for others in your household.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:24 pm

I was looking at my home testing kits and they expire! Was a surprise to me.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:27 pm

dbt1949 wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:24 pm I was looking at my home testing kits and they expire! Was a surprise to me.

Yeah, it has to do with the reagents inside (chemicals for testing). That said, they were extended for some of the kits. You can look up what you have here and see what the new expiration date is - you don't need to just throw them out; they might still be good.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:30 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:44 pm Actually, isn't this the second time that they've sent out masses of COVID tests, and the second time that they arrived in the middle of a huge cold snap?

It's a conspiracy!

/edit - you'd think there could be a way for the USPS to flag these deliveries to be automatically held back if there temperature is supposed to be this cold.

Sorry, I'd meant to comment on this earlier - you're not crazy. However, they have since said (poorly) that if the tests are eventually returned to the temperatures mentioned on the box and the lines appear as they should (namely, the Control), the test is working correctly despite exposure to hot/cold temps.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Dec 23, 2022 6:38 pm

rittchard wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 2:49 pm My symptoms never got horrible but it's still a pain in the butt combined with other health issues and other things going on. I had to cancel a trip to take my parents to Vegas which they were really looking forward to, so I felt bad about that. Now I'm wondering if it's even safe to spend Christmas with my family.

Moral of the story: don't get overconfident, the recent strain seems extremely easy to transmit (I should note we were both double boosterized so so much for that)

Glad to hear it wasn't horrible. Sad to hear the wrench in your life. I wouldn't say I'm over confident. I'm just sooooo sick of my shell. It's a bit easier to stay in when there are myriad respiratory problems around right now and hearing the talking head on CNBC this morning complaining about people still wearing masks. That he is angry that he is going to have to look at people wearing masks for the rest of his life. That sort of helped me as well, because fuck him. I may need to stop watching CNBC, they have an editorialist who seems to be getting my goat daily now.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Dec 28, 2022 8:39 am

Calling Smoove!

What is the current best practice for re-entering a family after a positive test? And then what is the second, more practical, suggestion?

My wife tested positive Dec 23 (Fri). She really thought having all her shots and starting to feel better on Tuesday meant she'd have a negative test. I suggested it was highly unlikely and indeed, the positive popped up in under 2 minutes. This depressed her, but at least she wasn't fighting me when I told her she had to keep isolating. I was saying she had to stay away at least a week and preferably 10 days. I was also willing to consider letting her out 48 hours after all symptoms were gone (or a negative test), but that is tricky as her symptoms were only a sore throat and some nasal congestion (and we keep the house cold enough that everyone wakes up with a runny nose). She never really developed a cough or had any fever (did have slight body aches for about 12 hours at the onset, but didn't complain of them after that).

My youngest tested negative 3x and she was the one who spent the most time with my wife right before. We all wore masks inside the house and stayed in our own rooms through Monday except while opening presents where we unmasked but were all on opposite ends of the big family room (we video chatted in my wife). My wife has been in a closed room most of the time and in an N95 whenever she has trekked through the house. Amazingly, and thankfully, none of the rest of us have had any symptoms.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:28 am

stessier wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 8:39 am Calling Smoove!

What is the current best practice for re-entering a family after a positive test? And then what is the second, more practical, suggestion?

I appreciate the chuckle.

I think what you did is probably more proactive than I would expect from 99% of the people testing positive; I commend your efforts.

There is still significant debate in the public health community regarding the current recommended practices vs the unofficial recommended practices. Really, the main difference is that 5 day clock (which for your wife, started on Saturday). Here, the official recommendation is that she can leave isolation after today (Wednesday) and just resume all normal activities tomorrow - assuming she's fever and symptom free.

Unofficially (and where I still sit) is that she should be testing again first thing tomorrow morning and seeing if she's still positive. If so, I think the compromise is she can leave isolation but she needs to masked (N95) around the house. As long as she's willing to adhere to mask discipline in the house, I think the risk is low. I'd probably still recommend she eats and sleeps separate from everyone, but in terms of remaining isolated and away, I think the majority of my peers (myself included) believe that masking is critical here and that the greatest benefits from isolation are likely during those first 5 days. If she's feverish or in any way symptomatic tomorrow morning, then everything changes.

The difference (unofficial/official) comes back to the testing (still). We're assuming if she's testing positive, she's still infectious. The CDC is assuming she's not and is just saying to mask for 11 days regardless (which I don't think anyone is doing). They do recommend testing, but it's buried and as long as she can hit two negative tests in 48 hours, then she can remove the mask. Again, I don't think anyone is doing even a portion of this, so trying to is really appreciated. How her employer feels about it, that's another story...

Above and beyond that, making sure you have ventilation in areas she's hanging out - HEPA filters, a window is slightly cracked, etc... is another recommendation (assuming temperature is reasonable).

It's really possible that her vaccinations not only helped her but helped her to not get sick and spread the virus; that's really the silver lining here.

Does that feel practical?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:25 pm

Yes, thank you.

I'll probably mash all the suggestions together to get something she can live with, but knowledge is power!

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:29 pm

stessier wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:25 pm Yes, thank you.

I'll probably mash all the suggestions together to get something she can live with, but knowledge is power!

Test while wearing two masks directly in front of a HEPA filter with one hand out a cracked window!

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:54 pm

I was surprised yesterday when I went to the hospital that no one was wearing masks. I know they still do at the VA.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:43 pm

Yeah... I know such posts must be silly at this point, but I was in a crowded Burger King and a pharmacy today, and probably only 10% of people were masking. None of the food preparers. And half the time the pharmacist workers have their masks under their noses. Most of those wearing masks are seniors and Asians. Been going with Mrs. Nym to the hospital each day for an outpatient treatment, and they still require masks but there's no screening anymore. (That part I understand.) Just hand sanitizer and masks for you to put on yourself.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Dec 28, 2022 5:21 pm

dbt1949 wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:54 pm I was surprised yesterday when I went to the hospital that no one was wearing masks. I know they still do at the VA.

The ophthalmology mega-practice that I go to still requires masking. So does the hospital that Wife went to for an X-ray yesterday. The City of Boston is debating imposing a temporary mask mandate when school resumes.

I'd say mask usage was around 2% at the grocery store today. Hospitals are at the breaking point around here and the holiday surge hasn't kicked in yet. Nobody's paying attention, or they just don't care anymore.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 2:07 pm

We took our biggest risk yet. We had my side of the family over on Christmas Eve. That was 9 extra people (total of 14). Everyone is vaxxed and boosted and we required that everyone test negative that morning and skip if they weren't feeling well. Everyone knows why we're so adamant about these things, so we didn't get any push back. Now that we're almost 2 weeks out from the event, I think we all survived without issue.

P.S. 14 people is entirely too many people to cook dinner for.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:16 pm

Glad you made it!

My wife is still testing positive - much to her dismay. She wakes up with some nasal congestion, but that fades during the day. Otherwise she feels fine. I'm not moving back into the room, though, until she can get a negative test (although I probably would if she didn't have the congestion).

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:48 pm

Apparently Ontario has extended the program to supply free rapid antigen test kits until 30 June 2023 (it was originally due to expire at the end of 2022). The trick, as always, is to find them. For example, of the 29 Shoppers Drug Mart locations in Ottawa, there is currently exactly one that (allegedly) has any in stock. There are a couple of hundred locations in Toronto, and four of them have test kits.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:55 pm

Has something like this made it to Canada yet?

Lucira Single-Use COVID-19 Rapid PCR Test

It's not exactly a PCR test, but apparently PCR adjacent. I don't see too many people here in the U.S. talking about it (I believe they went into wide distribution here ~6 months ago), probably because of price and that it's a single test. But in terms of accuracy, it would be better.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:59 pm

stessier wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:16 pm Glad you made it!

My wife is still testing positive - much to her dismay. She wakes up with some nasal congestion, but that fades during the day. Otherwise she feels fine. I'm not moving back into the room, though, until she can get a negative test (although I probably would if she didn't have the congestion).

Ugh. So sorry to hear that. 11 days is...not great. At least it sounds minimal.

Roman · Post by **Roman** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:11 pm

Booked for my bivalent booster on Friday 11am.

AZ

AZ

Moderna

Moderna

Moderna Booster =5th !!!

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:25 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:59 pm
stessier wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:16 pm Glad you made it!

My wife is still testing positive - much to her dismay. She wakes up with some nasal congestion, but that fades during the day. Otherwise she feels fine. I'm not moving back into the room, though, until she can get a negative test (although I probably would if she didn't have the congestion).
Ugh. So sorry to hear that. 11 days is...not great. At least it sounds minimal.

Mostly annoying - and expensive. Tests are about $10 each!

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:40 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:55 pm Has something like this made it to Canada yet?

Lucira Single-Use COVID-19 Rapid PCR Test

It's not exactly a PCR test, but apparently PCR adjacent. I don't see too many people here in the U.S. talking about it (I believe they went into wide distribution here ~6 months ago), probably because of price and that it's a single test. But in terms of accuracy, it would be better.

It looks like they have a combination COVID/flu test available online, but at $98 a pop, it doesn't seem like a viable alternative to the free government supplied test kits (with 5 units per kit).

I also found at least one online "reseller" of rapid antigen test kits, but since the only thing to resell is the government-issue stuff, I'd guess their business model consists of scraping up all the free kits that they can find and selling them to desperate people who can't find any.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:46 am

Following some chatter regarding the next COVID-19 shot -- for those that were given the bivalent one (like me) back in September. Namely, when should we expect to get the next one, what age groups will be recommended, etc...

"The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:47 am

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:19 pm

but also really depressing. Is there going to be nothing at all available, or just not a bivalent version?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:27 pm

Unofficially I'd expect there to be a recommendation for another bivalent shot. Given the diminishing number of people that are current with recommended vaccinations, I'm not really sure what to expect in terms of potential restrictions (i.e. only people over the age of 65) for approval.

It feels like they should just be recommending it to everyone, but I don't know what the data looks like on the bivalent shot's effectiveness against the latest (XBB.1.5) variant. Early reports are suggesting it was effective against BA.4 /BA.5 so I guess there's hope it should continue to offer some protection against XBB.1.5, even if it's diminished. My point here is that if the data we're collecting is suggesting a second bivalent shot is most beneficial to 65+ and hospitalizations for vaccinated people don't go up by some magical unknown number over the next 30 days, I could see them staggering approvals again.

Above and beyond the "vax and relax" strategy that is being promoted, the other driving factor seems to be hospitalizations. Hospitals can apparently be at boiling levels of chaos for months at a time, but as long as they're not "boiling over", then apparently COVID-19 is being managed...somehow.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:06 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:46 am Following some chatter regarding the next COVID-19 shot -- for those that were given the bivalent one (like me) back in September. Namely, when should we expect to get the next one, what age groups will be recommended, etc...

"The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.

A wind rose above the spires of the CDC. The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Wheel of COVID.

Icy and cold, the wind blew across the leafless forests of Gorg'a. It blew across the plains of Nebra-ska, and the wan, yellowed grass bowed before it. It carried with it the forgotten hopes and discarded masks of a people, a people lost to themselves.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:29 pm

Many skirts were smoothed and braids tugged, with no relief in sight...

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:29 pm

That's so good.

ACIP isn't scheduled to meet until 2/22, so unless something changes I'm guessing we're going to be flailing about for a while. I guess there's a recognition that the next round of approvals are needed but as of this week there doesn't appear to be any urgency. Possibly (I'm totally guessing) to the slow increase in hospitalizations, not a steep jump. That all might change on a dime though. Even in my own state, they're still reporting a decrease in cases as hospitalizations and ICU use are up considerably - likely Thanksgiving related. We still have another few weeks to see what Xmas and NYE bring...

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:33 pm

Smoove tugged his braid so hard that he was in danger of pulling it off. He ground his teeth in exasperation and started off in a huff. He just didn't understand bureaucrats. He wished Rand were there. Rand always had a way with bureaucrats.

(That way was balefire.)

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:35 pm

Take it to the juice bar you hippies.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:38 pm

Blackhawk turned a baleful eye on Sudy Nym. Was he a darkfriend? A visit with the Questioners would answer that.

(Ok, ok, I'm letting it go.

)

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:46 pm

just kidding. We could use more creativity around here sometimes.

Post by **FishPants** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:19 pm

Roman wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:11 pm Booked for my bivalent booster on Friday 11am.
AZ

AZ

Moderna

Moderna
Moderna Booster =5th !!!

Are we doing 5 doses in Ontario now? I just got my fourth (Bivalent) at the end of September (and then got Covid again a week later). I haven't heard when the next one is supposed to happen (March?), did I miss a news release or something or is this due to other circumstances?

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:52 pm

Yeah I got my fifth a month ago. I just go by the recommendation, every 3(4?)-6 months. My doc said 6 months should be sufficient, but my Mom has lung issues so I got mine a bit early.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:13 pm

I'm waiting for easier to read summaries, but I've linked to this thread reader from Dr. Gounder. Namely to highlight:

But what about long COVID? Prior immunity from vaccination or infection protects against long COVID.

But if you get your immunity through infection, you also run the risk of getting severe COVID or long COVID from that infection. After 2-3 COVID vaccinations, the protection against long COVID seems to plateau.

That last sentence might be driving decisions as well.

And regarding XBB:

Singapore saw a surge in cases with XBB, but not a surge in hospitalizations & deaths. But Singapore has a higher rate of vaccination & boosting than the US. In particular, less than 40% of people 65+ in the US are up to date with their boosters. This is a huge liability.

Domestically looking at NY vs Illinois:

But let's compare Illinois & New York. New York has a lot of XBB.1.5 (dark purple in the pie charts). Illinois doesn't.

Wastewater data show an increase in COVID transmission throughout the country, whether or not there's a lot of XBB.1.5. And COVID hospitalizations are up in both Illinois & New York even though Illinois doesn't have much XBB.1.5 while New York does

What does this mean?

It's unlikely that XBB.1.5 is the primary driver of increasing COVID cases & hospitalizations.

So what's driving the increase in COVID cases & hospitalizations?
Travel & socializing over the holidays
Lack of masking, ventilation & air filtration, & testing
Undervaccination
Waning immunity, especially among elderly people who haven't gotten boosted

So it's a mix of good news bad news. Namely, it doesn't seem like XBB.1.5 is driving cases up (good), our current polices focused on vaccination only and the number of people not fully vaccinated is likely the problem (bad).

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:05 pm

Wonder when I get my next vaccination? Im thinking maybe around May. My birthday!

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:08 pm

Scroll up a bit. There's no recommendation for another shot (if the last one you received was the bivalent). Unless you're in a narrow category (immune compromised, 65+, etc...) it wouldn't surprise me if they just expect the rest of us to hold off until Fall of 2023. I genuinely don't have a read on this anymore.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:21 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:08 pm Scroll up a bit. There's no recommendation for another shot (if the last one you received was the bivalent). Unless you're in a narrow category (immune compromised, 65+, etc...) it wouldn't surprise me if they just expect the rest of us to hold off until Fall of 2023. I genuinely don't have a read on this anymore.

I will be seeking an opinion on that come late February. I am immunosuppressed, and way back when they said my first two shots were like only having one and I think puts me at a total of 5 instead of 6. I didn't do three in rapid succession mainly because they made me wait so long to get first two. I don't know the science but I am itching to join something approaching normal along with every else not named Smoove. I'll want that late February shot so I can feel a bit of protection against St Pats, false spring, spring break spread and then actually start living a life in April.

So here's to hoping it's available and that it will do more than being a placebo for me.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:24 pm

As I understand it (IANA-vaccine-L), the criteria here in Ontario is that anyone can get a booster as long as they've completed the primary series of vaccine shots and if it has been at least 168 days (24 weeks) since either their most recent vaccine dose or COVID infection. The interval can be as little as 84 days (12 weeks) for people in high risk categories (age 65+, immunocompromised, front-line healthcare workers, etc) with "informed consent" (whatever that means).

I had a bivalent (BA.1) booster at the end of September, so as things stand I should be eligible for another booster at the end of March.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:35 pm

LordMortis wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 5:21 pm I don't know the science but I am itching to join something approaching normal along with every else not named Smoove.

From where I'm sitting, there is no going back to a pre-COVID normal unless I'm just going to surrender to the virus and allow myself to get infected/reinfected and hope for the best each time around. My version of "living with COVID" is to adopt a new normal that involves doing things like wearing a respirator to go shopping in a grocery store so that I don't have to learn to "live with COVID" in my lungs and vascular system, clotting up my blood and messing with my brain or any other organs. Keeping my vaccination status up to date is the safety net that will hopefully mitigate the price I pay if I screw up and get infected despite my best efforts, but it isn't my first line of defence.

All of which is just a really long-winded way of saying you should have typed "everyone else not named Smoove or Max."

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Wed Jan 04, 2023 6:40 pm

I don't know how anyone is willing to live with COVID risk when it's potentially much nastier/dangerous than the flu, and the flu is already so incredibly shitty.

I went to my second movie since before COVID yesterday. The theatre was only half full. I think I was the only one with a mask. I wore double surgical masks. I get that it's more to protect others from me than me from them, but I think that's still pretty important and inconsiderate not to. I decided against going to the showing with a packed theatre. People are crazy. They think they're invincible or they just don't care, even though they're taking on increased risk for their loved ones. If not masking only affected you, then I would care a lot less. I would care about as much as I care about people who ride motorcycles. I live in fear of my rider friends dying early, but if people want to do it, I get that they get a lot of enjoyment out of it. There's risk in everything. I read an article about micromorts recently. Interesting stuff. But riding a motorcycle don't kill Granny. (Unless Granny's the one on the Harley. In which case, go Granny!)