Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms

[Smoove_B]

A lot of Kickstarter project managers are in panic mode right now, and a vast number of projects just got either seriously delayed, or are going to find themselves with major shipping issues when their pre-negotiated deals vanish with products already in production.

Yeah, I'd think so. Quite a few of my KS projects stopped naming names last year - they stopped telling everyone what outfit was fulfilling the orders ahead of time. I'm not aware of a current project that's using them, but I guess anything is possible.

I'm guessing Miniature Market / Asmodee logistics (or whatever they're calling themselves) is going to pick up a whole bunch of business. I'm waiting a game that's been sitting at a warehouse now for over a month and the shipper seemingly doesn't care to update with the publisher (at least, that's what backers are being told). Things still seem wacky by all accounts.

[hepcat]

I wouldn't expect to see anything from Blacklist Games. Specifically:

Contra
Buddy Cop
Street Masters (reprints; Tide of the Dragon)
Dire Alliance
Lasting Tales + Fantasy Series 2

I think the company is DOA and whatever it is that's been produced and is in China is going to disappear long before they (he?) is able to pay for warehousing and shipping to the United States.

Apparently there are some retailers in Greece and parts of Europe selling Dire Alliance.

Mother effers….

[Smoove_B]

I was about to come in here and post that - after the email update. I guess someone shared it on social media last week and on BGG? It's been for sale since October of last year? And I guess now that people are sharing it online, BLG magically releases an update today about how that vendor paid for a bunch of copies to be airlifted to the shop? The only vendor in the entire world...in Greece....paid to airlift 19 copies. Seems reasonable.

[hepcat]

I'm assuming with that kind of business acumen, that store won't be around much longer.

[Blackhawk]

After delay followed by delay from a double project I backed (they launched a second project and offered to combine shipping if you backed both), an updated today finally clarified why things keep going wrong:

Funagain.

[YellowKing]

I did get some good news on one of mine, Earth. It's on track to be in hands by next month or early March.

It's a nice little game that sits squarely between Wingspan and Ark Nova in weight, with a similar vibe. It's an engine builder that feels a bit like Wingspan in terms of the tableau building and a bit like Ark Nova in the action selection mechanics. But still different enough from both that I felt it worth adding to my collection. I played it solo on TTS quite a bit and really enjoyed it.

[baelthazar]

Looks like Masters of the Universe, Tanares Adventures, and Final Girl Series 2 are all coming in the next few months. I look forward to getting them!

[baelthazar]

Ok Octopus Fam,

I noticed that there is still time to late order Isofarian Guard. What are people's thoughts here, particularly thinking about solo play? My main worry is that they seem to be having some shipping issues and that gives me some pause. Why should or shouldn't I look into this? Also, is this a different enough experience from ISS Vanguard?

[Smoove_B]

Isofarian Guard is possibly my most anticipated game, so clearly I'm biased.

They're not having shipping issues, it's been delayed (like everything else) and is now en route to distribution. I believe it will be shipped to backers in late February or March (if my spreadsheet is correct). The 'issue" is that it is now $100,000 more to ship the game than when they ran the original numbers, but they're not charging anyone extra to offset costs. Instead they started selling artwork on their website and I think have raised about half of that $100K by doing so. As a late backer you might end up paying more though; I'm not sure.

I think it's similar to ISS Vanguard in that they're both story-forward experiences. Mechanically they're quite difference as Vanguard is a dice chucker whereas Isofarian Guard is a bag-builder with Too Many Bones style (same manufacturer) poker chips.

Anyway, it's a giant sprawling RPG with crafting and leveling up and I think mechanically much deeper than ISS Vanguard. There are definitely some similarities in broad theme (exploration, campaign story, unique characters, etc...) but I think Isofarian Guard is deeper. Oddly enough I think both can be completed in ~50 hours, though I think those are just estimates.

So mechanically, yes different from ISS Vanguard. Broadly, definitely some overlap. I am more into fantasy theme so that probably also factors into it as well.

[Daveman]

Steve Jackson Games has finally launched their new edition of Wiz-War.



This new edition is a very barebones version. Cardboard standees, no art on the cards, etc. But it is only $30 so there's that. I got rid of my 8th edition FFG copy as my kids were too young but I've regretted it since. I was hoping a new edition would be a little nicer looking. They'd pitched the artwork by Phil Foglio but it seems it's just the art on the standees and box cover.

[Malificent]

Ok Octopus Fam,

I noticed that there is still time to late order Isofarian Guard. What are people's thoughts here, particularly thinking about solo play? My main worry is that they seem to be having some shipping issues and that gives me some pause. Why should or shouldn't I look into this? Also, is this a different enough experience from ISS Vanguard?

Is this via their webstore or somewhere else?

[baelthazar]

Ok Octopus Fam,

I noticed that there is still time to late order Isofarian Guard. What are people's thoughts here, particularly thinking about solo play? My main worry is that they seem to be having some shipping issues and that gives me some pause. Why should or shouldn't I look into this? Also, is this a different enough experience from ISS Vanguard?

Is this via their webstore or somewhere else?

Their webstore:
https://www.skykingdomgames.com/products

[Lordnine]

Just in case there is anyone interested here. Deep Shelf relaunched last week and it has blown past funding. Today is the last day to get the DinoGenics crossover promo pack for free.

[AWS260]

Congratulations! Apparently you have a knack for re-launching kickstarters. Any idea why it did so much better the second time around? The funding target was nearly identical.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to Deep Shelf. It looks like the kind of interactive Euro that I tend to prefer these days.

[Smoove_B]

I'm a backer for the Rallyman Dirt KS and things have taken an all-too-familiar turn. The distributor has allegedly had the game since the Fall of 2022 but according to the publisher was refusing to prioritize shipping because it was a relatively small project in comparison to others they were dealing with during a busy holiday season. Note here the original delivery was July of 2021 so part of this is pandemic related. Regardless, while the shipping priority in the Fall of 2022 might have been true, it's now February and there's been no change in status. Well, as it turns out the distributor is claiming the publisher owes them more money and is refusing to ship anything until they're made whole. All this is coming via the KS updates so we're only hearing one side but the impact is that worldwide shipping of the game has ceased completely after the distribution house had started sending copies out in December to EU locations. The publisher has also been saying the distributor was sending out wrong packages to EU backers - double orders, improperly packing (so there was lots of damage) - it really sounds like a nightmare as they present it.

The punchline? You can buy copies of the game on Amazon right now - cheaper than what backers paid, so that's great. I mean, there were some extras included that are KS exclusives but the idea that it's now in retail distribution somehow while the majority of backers (North America is like 60% of the people that funded it) is peak KS.

Not really sure how this gets resolved but I'm guessing it's not going to be shipped any time soon.

[YellowKing]

Yeah I went a little nuts on KS last year but I'm a lot more hesitant now. Unless it's a rock solid publisher/fulfiller like Chip Theory or a game I'm extremely confident will never make it to retail, I'm out.

[Lordnine]

Congratulations! Apparently you have a knack for re-launching kickstarters. Any idea why it did so much better the second time around? The funding target was nearly identical.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to Deep Shelf. It looks like the kind of interactive Euro that I tend to prefer these days.

Honestly, I think it was mostly just timing and a crowded market. I was competing with some very high profile titles when I launched last year and when presented with big projects from bigger publishers people chose that over a lesser known company. This time I purposefully chose a time that was far enough out from Christmas but also earlier than most of the other high profile titles. The first week is everything on Kickstarter and you really want to be funded in the first two days. People have a mental block against backing projects that are not yet funded even if it doesn't make sense. Last time there were about 1,500 following the campaign that I could see on the backend. If a fraction had backed at a basic level it would have been funded but they were all waiting for someone else to make the plunge first.

[YellowKing]

Just a clarification I was focused on Smoove's post when replying about backing off of Kickstarters. Obviously I'm not throwing any shade against Lordnine's project. Present company excluded and all that. Bad post timing on my part.

[Lordnine]

Just a clarification I was focused on Smoove's post when replying about backing off of Kickstarters. Obviously I'm not throwing any shade against Lordnine's project. Present company excluded and all that. Bad post timing on my part.

We all know you hate me. It's fine.

[baelthazar]

Great job Lordnine! I am glad to see that your KS is off to a great start!

In other news, if you like Dwellings of Eldervale and you like Space 4x - they are making a sequel for Dwellings... IN SPACE!

Andromeda's Edge:
https://gamefound.com/projects/cardboar ... medas-edge

[hepcat]

For those of us that backed Freedom Five on kickstarter, they just announced it will be pushed back yet again. This time to Q3 of this year. I suspect it will be pushed again. I know they've earned some good will by being honest about all this stuff, but we're coming up on two years. While it's far from my longest awaited kickstarter, it is kind of annoying.

[YellowKing]

Freedom Five *is* my longest awaited Kickstarter. And yes, every time I get one of their (infrequent) updates, I already know what it's going to say before I open it.

Honestly I'm not sure how much interest I even have left in the game at this point.

[baelthazar]

Meanwhile, the Masters of the Universe game by CMON is sitting with the distributors. I can't wait to get it within a month or so!

[YellowKing]

New reprint/expansion of TOWNSFOLK TUSSLE launching in March. I'm probably going to go all in on this.

I passed the first time around because even though I enjoyed the TTS demo, I felt the solo/low player count needed some work. I don't know if the expansions address this in any way, but I do know that I've been kicking myself for not grabbing it the first time around. I just love the theme, the minis, etc. and even after passing on it I'd find myself going back to the demo time and time again. I was hoping Vagrantsong would scratch the itch, but even though I enjoy that game, the boss battling doesn't feel to me as truly "boss battle" as Townsfolk Tussle.

[RMC]

I apprently backed this, and it is shipping soon.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/re ... =user_menu

Scarface 1920, no idea why I backed it. I am guessing the theme got me, but I am all in. Lol.

[Zarathud]

New reprint/expansion of TOWNSFOLK TUSSLE launching in March. I'm probably going to go all in on this.

I passed the first time around because even though I enjoyed the TTS demo, I felt the solo/low player count needed some work. I don't know if the expansions address this in any way, but I do know that I've been kicking myself for not grabbing it the first time around. I just love the theme, the minis, etc. and even after passing on it I'd find myself going back to the demo time and time again. I was hoping Vagrantsong would scratch the itch, but even though I enjoy that game, the boss battling doesn't feel to me as truly "boss battle" as Townsfolk Tussle.

I really liked it, but haven’t painted the minis yet. It was a risk but Alex at Boardgameco’s review was very convincing. It definitely delivered IMO.

[hepcat]

Oi, I loves me some Townsfolk Tussle.

[YellowKing]

Set a Watch: Forsaken Isles/Doomed Run Kickstarter is live.

I'm in for the $76 Cult of the New level on this one as I LOVE this game and already own the existing content for it.

If you haven't played it, I highly recommend it for no other reason than that it is a fantastic travel game to throw in a bag. I take my copy on just about every trip as something to break out in the hotel room or introduce to friends.

[EzeKieL]

Set a Watch: Forsaken Isles/Doomed Run Kickstarter is live.

I'm in for the $76 Cult of the New level on this one as I LOVE this game and already own the existing content for it.

If you haven't played it, I highly recommend it for no other reason than that it is a fantastic travel game to throw in a bag. I take my copy on just about every trip as something to break out in the hotel room or introduce to friends.

100%

[hepcat]

In other news, indie boards and cards pulled a shitty stunt with the latest expansion for Aeon’s End and their separate project, a spin off of Aeon’s End called Astro Knights. Everyone paid shipping individually for these (and a third game I didn’t back that was also a separate Kickstarter), but indie is holding the completed projects back a week or so and combining them into one shipment for folks who backed two or all three separate kickstarters. So essentially, they’re pocketing the shipping fees everyone paid for separate kickstarters and combining them into one shipment.

[AWS260]

Sounds like things are going great over there. The latest Stationfall campaign update:

Funagain is closing down business and it seems to be chaos there right now. We have asked many times times when the Stationfall Kickstarter campaign will start shipping out and most times the question gets avoided. The only time we have gotten any clear answer was on January 19th by Nick Carluccio, CEO. He wrote: "Our estimated start date for Stationfall is closer to the first week of February."

We will continuously be in contact with Funagain daily until shipping to backers starts and is completed.

[Smoove_B]

I wish I could say I was surprised. They weren't great when they were fully operational. I have to believe it's total chaos now.

Still no change for the Rallyman GT Kickstarter either. Shipper is demanding full payment for a prior KS and is currently holding all current KS projects hostage until they get it. Meanwhile, the game and all the extras somehow has been magically available on Amazon for almost a month now. It's kinda weird how KS backers don't get their copies but somehow it makes it to retail chains. Even after all these years I guess I sill don't understand shipping logistics.

[AWS260]

Guys, I'm beginning to think that maybe Kickstarter isn't the best way for me to buy games.

[Smoove_B]

I thought many of the issues were resolved and when there were higher profile problems, that would have helped to ensure other companies would keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. But apparently we all have short memories so they keep doing the same things. I've definitely cut back on the projects and publishers I will support, that's for sure. At this point it's basically coming down to getting things that I know won't ever be available easily elsewhere. Lessons continue to be learned, even in 2023.

[Kasey Chang]

Having been in the fulfillment / logistics business, it's a PAINFUL process that is extremely labor intensive, and requires a LOT of manpower assembly line style, and long conveyor rollers and shrinkwrap machines and whatnot. You also need to coodinate among multiple printers, cardboard cutters, and so on. It's not easy or simple. Keeping such a business going means having a LOT of clients and ability to scale up production when necessary, and by necesity, must also do a lot of warehousing, and a lot of special equipment, from shrinkwrapped to continuous form printer, from CD printing machines and jewelcase auto assemblers, to custom-written QC procedures with assembly line stations generating live reports. It's not something you can jump into. You CAN mess up your price quote by underestimating the cost of procedures, and timetables are screwed up even if one item was delayed, or you're missing people on the assembly line so your QC suffers.

Games, as designed, and released only at irregular intervals, so it's basically feast or famine. Sure, the modern practice of hiring temps help, but again, it's a painful process of boredom, as each person has to do their part properly, and one person can bring the entire line to a halt. And those industrial machines aren't exactly cheap, AND you need techs onsite to "maintain" them, and feed them and/or have spare machines as you can't wait for spare parts... You have orders to fulfill.

[hepcat]

In other news, indie boards and cards pulled a shitty stunt with the latest expansion for Aeon’s End and their separate project, a spin off of Aeon’s End called Astro Knights. Everyone paid shipping individually for these (and a third game I didn’t back that was also a separate Kickstarter), but indie is holding the completed projects back a week or so and combining them into one shipment for folks who backed two or all three separate kickstarters. So essentially, they’re pocketing the shipping fees everyone paid for separate kickstarters and combining them into one shipment.

And just got both of mine in one shipment.

[Smoove_B]

...and that's all she wrote for my Rallyman Dirt KS:

With all of our revenue streams basically cut off at this point and no way to negotiate or pay the sums of money that are being demanded of us, the response from our lawyers and bank was categoric. We now have no options left but to shut Holy Grail Games down, effective immediately.

Somehow copies made it to Amazon and various random retailers but all the North American backers have their copies sitting in the distribution warehouse because of non-payment. Some copies made it out into the UK, but the distributor is the same as North America so after a month of shipping, whatever copies remained are also locked down.

This one actually comes as a surprise. Was not expecting an established company to implode, but here we are. Sounds like they were doing what a few others got caught up in - the funding shell game - prior KS were helping fund the delivery and shipment of future unrelated products. When the pandemic hit and costs went up, they had no way to quickly absorb and adjust - their finances were all baked in.

[Zarathud]

As Kickstarter backers, you’re not even creditors. So the games get liquidated to pay off debts. Not a good situation unless someone steps in to buy the company and agrees to fulfill the Kickstarter for goodwill/advertising.

[RMC]

As Kickstarter backers, you’re not even creditors. So the games get liquidated to pay off debts. Not a good situation unless someone steps in to buy the company and agrees to fulfill the Kickstarter for goodwill/advertising.

Ouch, and one more reason for me to stop with kickstarters.

[Blackhawk]

An era has, I think, passed.