All things: China

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:06 pm

That's weird as this was hitting the news yesterday:

The construction of a Chinese-owned corn mill in North Dakota will likely be halted after the U.S. Air Force flagged it as a “significant threat to national security.”

Fufeng Group, an MSG and xanthan gum manufacturer based in Shandong province, China, previously bought 370 acres of farmland in Grand Forks through its American subsidiary.

The city council approved the company’s $700 million proposal to build the mill last year, citing economic development success.

However, thousands of residents have since expressed their disapproval of the mill. In August 2022, at least 5,000 residents signed a petition that sought to prevent the mill’s development.

Although city officials initially supported the mill’s construction in the hopes of generating jobs and tax revenue, Mayor Brandon Bochenski issued a statement on Tuesday asserting that the proposed mill “should be stopped.”

“The federal government has requested the city’s help in stopping the project as geo-political tensions have greatly increased since the initial announcement of the project,” he said.

Bochenski said that he would block the construction by denying building permits and refusing to connect city infrastructure to the building site.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:10 pm

The Air Force called the mill, which was to be built 12 miles from Grand Forks Air Force Base, "a significant threat to national security"

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:29 pm

On the one hand the Air Force base seems to have a lot of sensitive activity going on at the base.

The corn mill was proposed to be built 12 miles away from the Grand Forks Air Force Base, which is home to U.S. intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance units, including its top-secret drone technology.

And there can be a pretty tight relationship between the Chinese government and private business in China. So I can see the Chinese military saying to this company who very well could have just wanted an agricultural plant, "Hey, you're going to hire this group of people as agricultural experts. You'll also give them a secure space to protect ummm, trade secrets. And you'll need to add this microwave transmitter to your plans."

On the other hand...

In a joint press release on Tuesday, Hoeven and Cramer called on city officials to “discontinue” the project and instead “work together to find an American company to develop the agriculture project.”

Yeah, good luck with finding American companies so eager to invest within the US.

It was an American subsidiary that made the initial purchase of the land so I'm not sure if it was a matter of Chinese nationals working the plant or they're just hiring domestically and checking the ledger sheet. But I suppose the hiring of a small group of Chinese "experts" as I mentioned above could still happen. Or it's just a bargaining chip and if some conditions were met this national security issue would miraculously disappear and the wheels of capitalism will continue to turn.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:32 pm

Which seems to make one wonder why this company from China would want to.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:40 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:32 pm Which seems to make one wonder why this company from China would want to.

Chinese companies love American agriculture for output, quality, good arable land. Especially as I imagine family farms selling large parcels of land or their entire operation if their children don't want to be in the business.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:35 pm

a suspected Beijing-operated spy balloon spotted hovering over sensitive U.S. airspace

Where's those space lasers when you need them?

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:27 pm

Defiant wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:35 pm
a suspected Beijing-operated spy balloon spotted hovering over sensitive U.S. airspace

Where's those space lasers when you need them?

Just wait until they try to hover over a synagogue.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:55 pm

The right is LOSING IT'S MIND over this balloon thing. They're demanding it be shot down immediately. Maybe it should be. I don't know but it should not be because the people with the least knowledge are screaming about it. Especially after being driven mad by complete and utter nonsense like this. The smile at the end is the *chef's kiss*. "I can't believe I'm saying this but it's a living."

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:05 pm

Us: You should fund pandemic prevention programs, pump money into research, education, surveillance and bolster local public health.
Them: POP THAT BALLOON

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:58 pm

Operation Pop That Balloon is a go!

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:04 pm

Don't the Chinese already have spy satellites overflying the US every day?

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:12 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:04 pm Don't the Chinese already have spy satellites overflying the US every day?

Yeah it was an interesting decision to fly a balloon over the US which sounds like them “taking the piss” as the Brits would say. CNN is really playing up China as perpetrating a hostile act.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:24 pm

The Chinese were being provocative for sure but I suspect that is the purpose. They wanted to see what we'd do. It wasn't lost on them that Blinken was to arrive next week. Like any rival they want to map out our weak points. I won't say they knew this would turn into a right-wing meltdown but I'm sure they took away another useful observation that we are disordered and weak.

Just to nod to reality - Biden says he ordered the shoot down on Wednesday. They decided to not tell everyone until they acted - when it was safe in their estimation to do so. While they practiced their judgement the entirety of the right-wing had a complete freak out about this. With absolutely no information. It's not going to be lost on our adversaries that we can't stay level headed even when we are being level headed. This is not great.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:39 pm

With our messy democracy we do look chaotic. However with our current political overtures in Asia resulting in the use of more bases in various countries and more Asian countries wanting a stronger military relationship with the US to counter Chinese expansion I think we're doing okay.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:44 pm

I'm betting the Chinese are crapping their pants right now over the possibility that balloon might talk....

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:52 pm

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:28 pm

Does using a missile on a balloon seem excessive to anyone else? It wouldn't take but a few cannon rounds to shred the envelope.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:50 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:28 pm It wouldn't take but a few cannon rounds to shred the envelope.

Meanwhile, in 1998...

A runaway weather balloon floating toward Britain over the North Atlantic is proving a tough target for some of Canada’s top guns.

The helium-filled balloon, a 25-story high unmanned research station used to measure ozone levels over Canada, was launched Monday from Vanscoy, Saskatchewan.

Instruments attached to the balloon were supposed to separate from it at the end of the test Monday, said Dale Sommerfeldt, vice president of Scientific Instrumentation Ltd. of Saskatoon, which coordinated the launch.

``The termination device failed and the backup system failed and that’s why the balloon is where it is right now,″ he said.

Jet fighters trying to bring the balloon down fired more than 1,000 rounds into it Thursday, but it remained aloft. The air force hopes the now-leaking balloon will eventually come down.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:30 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:28 pm Does using a missile on a balloon seem excessive to anyone else? It wouldn't take but a few cannon rounds to shred the envelope.

Risk Management. You need to be much closer to put bullets in it.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:40 pm

You know how much jet fuel costs now a days? Not to mention the pilots time and the ground crew's time and how much those bullets cost.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:19 pm

I'm fairly confident - though it's a guess still - that cost was not a major consideration in the mission design.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:25 pm

According to the Washington Post article on this event today - here @ WaPo we have this tidbit.

A senior defense official said there have been four previous Chinese balloon incursions over the continental United States, including one early in the Biden administration and three during the Trump administration. Former defense secretary Mark T. Esper, speaking to CNN on Friday, said that he did not ever recall the issue coming up. “I would remember that for sure,” said Esper, a Trump appointee. “My focus was on implementing the national defense strategy to take on the Chinese as the greatest strategic threat facing our country.”

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:29 pm

If Space Force can't capture and secure the Balloon for detailed examination, then I guess I don't understand why they exist.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:32 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:29 pm If Space Force can't capture and secure the Balloon for detailed examination, then I guess I don't understand why they exist.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:15 am

malchior wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:19 pm I'm fairly confident - though it's a guess still - that cost was not a major consideration in the mission design.

What's an air-to-air missile going for these days? It's been a while since I've bought any.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:30 am

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chinese-sp ... ina-coast/

A senior defense official told CBS News that an F-22 dispatched out of Langley Air Force Base took down the balloon with one AIM-9X air-to-air missile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-9_Sidewinder

381,069.74,[2] AIM-9X all up round Block II FY 2019

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:29 am

Well I figured missiles were probably a million bucks a pop, so that's a bargain. China's balloon probably cost multiples of that. It was considerably bigger than I initially thought.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:12 am

So is it a boy or a girl?

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:53 am

Kraken wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:28 pm Does using a missile on a balloon seem excessive to anyone else? It wouldn't take but a few cannon rounds to shred the envelope.

Lawn Chair Larry used a BB gun to bring his craft back down to earth.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:34 am

This just seems like such a stupid thing for China to have done.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:51 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:34 am This just seems like such a stupid thing for China to have done.

Why? The managed to float 3 over the United States while TFG was in charge and he didn't do anything. Why not see if "sleepy Joe" acts the same?

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:29 pm

Lawn Chair Larry didn't have a 90-foot balloon. And this was considerably larger than a hot air balloon (let alone a small weather balloon.)

Having seen a few reactions to the balloon being shot down, my real fear is that the next time anyone sees any sort of balloon, we're going to have hundreds or rednecks shooting guns into the air.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:48 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:51 am
Unagi wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:34 am This just seems like such a stupid thing for China to have done.
Why? The managed to float 3 over the United States while TFG was in charge and he didn't do anything. Why not see if "sleepy Joe" acts the same?

The right is saying this was made up because Esper, Ratcliffe, and Trump said it didn't happen. Which of course is being published as he said/she said material by the press. That seems reasonable since all three of those guys are MAGA liars.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:12 pm

Current news says USAF scrambled an F-22 armed with a Sidewinder X with INERT WARHEAD (i.e. a training missile) and killed it at range of 2 miles. Navy ships are on the scene and salvage is ongoing.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:46 pm

Dang, apparently I missed seeing it. Was visible from my house but I had no idea! That'll learn me to read the headlines every 20 minutes instead of every 2 hours!

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:01 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:51 am he didn't do anything.

Trump, a known liar

Why aren't other articles this frank?

Edit: I looked at the comments, Ray.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:11 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:29 pm Lawn Chair Larry didn't have a 90-foot balloon. And this was considerably larger than a hot air balloon (let alone a small weather balloon.)

Having seen a few reactions to the balloon being shot down, my real fear is that the next time anyone sees any sort of balloon, we're going to have hundreds or rednecks shooting guns into the air.

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/trending/nor ... FTPWF7ZWM/

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:36 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:15 am
malchior wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:19 pm I'm fairly confident - though it's a guess still - that cost was not a major consideration in the mission design.
What's an air-to-air missile going for these days? It's been a while since I've bought any.

The Commonwealth of Massachusetts frowns upon such purchases...but I'm sure New Hampshire will be more than happy to fill your air to air missile needs!

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:54 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:12 am So is it a boy or a girl?

waitingtoconnect · Post by **waitingtoconnect** » Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:19 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:55 pm The right is LOSING IT'S MIND over this balloon thing. They're demanding it be shot down immediately. Maybe it should be. I don't know but it should not be because the people with the least knowledge are screaming about it. Especially after being driven mad by complete and utter nonsense like this. The smile at the end is the *chef's kiss*. "I can't believe I'm saying this but it's a living."

Clearly it was trying to irradiate us cattle with 5g mobile phone radiation.