The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:50 pm

Unagi wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:31 pm The key with chemistry jokes is to only use them periodically.

Table that kinda talk.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:42 pm

Daehawk wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:50 pm
Unagi wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:31 pm The key with chemistry jokes is to only use them periodically.
Table that kinda talk.

Not gonna get the reaction you want.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:20 pm

This is hitting the news this morning; might as well share what the FDA is thinking:

The Food and Drug Administration is considering a major shift in the nation's COVID-19 vaccine strategy.

The goal is to simplify vaccination against COVID and perhaps adopt an approach similar to what is used for the flu vaccine, with annual updates to match whatever strain of the virus is circulating. This is according to a federal official who spoke under the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

...

Currently, people who want to be fully vaccinated against COVID have to first get their primary vaccinations — two shots of the original vaccine spaced weeks apart. That's followed at least two months later by a booster, currently the bivalent shot that's tailored to protect against omicron.

Under the new approach, most people would be advised to simply get whatever the latest version of the vaccine is annually each fall like the flu vaccine. They wouldn't have to worry about how many shots they've already gotten and which one they got when. Those who still need to receive two doses initially, such as young children and older people, would use the same formulation for all three shots.

Of note:

Some researchers think it's too soon to rely on annual boosters. COVID hasn't quite settled into a seasonal pattern like the flu, they note, and the SARS-CoV2 virus is changing more quickly than the flu virus. So people may need to be boosted more frequently, especially since protection against severe disease may only last about four to six months, they say.

"We're going to be reaching that pretty soon with the early adopters of the bivalent boosters, like myself," says Dr. Peter Hotez, co-director of the Center for Vaccine Development at Texas Children's Hospital and dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine. "I don't know if an annual strategy is going to cut it."

Pretending like it's over has worked, so pretending like like it's seasonal also makes total sense.

What to expect?

The vaccine would still be administered at different doses for different ages. And very young children and older people would still get two shots each year, much like the flu vaccine.

If the FDA advisory committee endorses the approach Thursday, the FDA would work with the vaccine companies and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to finalize the details. And the FDA advisers would meet again in the spring to pick the specific strain or strains of the virus the new shots should target.

This all tracks with my gut feeling that the federal emergency declaration will end in May of this year.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:44 pm

I'm still hoping to get a booster booster in the spring, as I'm at 4.5 months since the bivalent. I wonder whether that'll be a possibility before it becomes annual-only?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:50 pm

Totally guessing, but because Winter 2023 doesn't seem to be apocalyptic (at least in the NE) to the same degree as it was for Winter 2022, I'm guessing for people that had the bivalent boosters in the Fall/Winter, our next chance will be Fall 2023.

The collective "it doesn't matter" at all-time high levels I'm seeing/feeling at this point is driving my guess.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:43 pm

It also looks like we'll be paying for the next shot rather than have them freely administered like before, no?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:45 pm

Yes - less whatever your insurance company covers. Because everyone has insurance. In theory it should be fully (or mostly) covered under preventative care rules, but I really don't know what to expect anymore.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:46 pm

stessier wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:43 pm It also looks like we'll be paying for the next shot rather than have them freely administered like before, no?

They're not going to be handed out for free by the federal government like before but will probably be covered by insurance.

But either way, we've been and will continue to pay for them.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:52 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:44 pm I'm still hoping to get a booster booster in the spring, as I'm at 4.5 months since the bivalent. I wonder whether that'll be a possibility before it becomes annual-only?

+1. Hoping for availability around the last week in February. This is based on my ignorance and that being about six months since my last shot and the anticipation of spread taking a dramatic uptick here around March Madness/St Pat's Day as it did in 2020, 2021, and 2022.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:01 pm

From a NYT article regarding the FDA meeting:

"The FDA advisors said they would like to see detailed information regarding who is most vulnerable to the virus and to make decisions about future vaccination strategy based on those data."

Reading between the lines - at risk for death? You'll get a vaccine. Everyone else? No worries. It's like there is a genuine push to just completely try and minimize and erase the idea of Long COVID or any chronic impacts.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:17 pm

America is healing! We're back to bi-partisan agreement that crime should be a priority (data published 2/3):

The drop for pandemic support ("coronavirus outbreak, really?) is...staggering. It's just not an issue anymore - despite 4K+ people dying last week from it. I know I'm a broken record on all this, but it continues to be a daily kick in the crotch.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:20 pm

4000 old people are off the social security rolls now. That frees up money to keep brown people down and skimp on education. The makings of a great society if I say so. If we work on this together, we can hope that the drastic decline in life expectancy will help even more.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:21 pm

Oh, and NYC is dropping the vaccination mandate for municipal workers, because reasons:

The new rule will take effect on Friday. It will also apply to non-public schools, such as private and religious educational institutions, and early childcare and daycare staff.

“With more than 96 percent of city workers and more than 80 percent of New Yorkers having received their primary COVID-19 series and more tools readily available to keep us healthy, this is the right moment for this decision,” Adams said in a press release. “I continue to urge every New Yorker to get vaccinated, get boosted, and take the necessary steps to protect themselves and those around them from COVID-19.”

...

As part of the new policy, individuals visiting public school buildings will no longer be required to provide proof of one dose of the vaccine.

About 1,780 employees — less than 1% of the municipal workforce — have been fired for failing to provide proof of COVID vaccination. Although they will not be able to return to their jobs, they will be able to apply to work at their former agencies, according to the press release.

Of note:

But Dr. Jay Varma, who served as the health policy adviser to de Blasio, told Gothamist that ending the mandate is a mistake.

He said he worried that the city dropping its requirement would have a "cascading impact" on the private sector, in which private companies would stop mandating their employees to be vaccinated.

That could lead to a reduction in percentage of adults vaccinated over time, Varma said.

"While the city may not longer consider COVID an emergency, it is still killing over 10 New Yorkers a day, and vaccination is the single best way to prevent those deaths," he added.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:54 pm

Gee who woulda thunk that America's Frontline Doctors were scammers?

At the height of the coronavirus pandemic, the leaders of pseudoscience group America’s Frontline Doctors (AFLDS) became stars on the right for their willingness to connect COVID patients with prescriptions for bogus treatments like hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.

The group hit a new level of prominence after Donald Trump retweeted one of their videos. Trump’s endorsement boosted their profile, a triumph that soured only somewhat after the video’s lead doctor was exposed as a believer in the idea that dreaming about sex with demons can cause real medical conditions.

Since November, though, the group has been torn apart as its founder, Dr. Simone Gold, faces off against the group’s board over what each faction says is the lavish spending of donor money. Now, in a newly reported court ruling, a judge has torn into both sides for possible violations of nonprofit ethics, singling out the group’s spending on a $3.6 million house for Gold’s personal use as “simply absurd.”

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:16 pm

Pyperkub wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:54 pm Gee who woulda thunk that America's Frontline Doctors were scammers?

At the height of the coronavirus pandemic, the leaders of pseudoscience group America’s Frontline Doctors (AFLDS) became stars on the right for their willingness to connect COVID patients with prescriptions for bogus treatments like hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.

The group hit a new level of prominence after Donald Trump retweeted one of their videos. Trump’s endorsement boosted their profile, a triumph that soured only somewhat after the video’s lead doctor was exposed as a believer in the idea that dreaming about sex with demons can cause real medical conditions.

Since November, though, the group has been torn apart as its founder, Dr. Simone Gold, faces off against the group’s board over what each faction says is the lavish spending of donor money. Now, in a newly reported court ruling, a judge has torn into both sides for possible violations of nonprofit ethics, singling out the group’s spending on a $3.6 million house for Gold’s personal use as “simply absurd.”

Golden Age of Fraud.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:53 pm

Florida has some thoughts on vaccines...

Health Alert on mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine Safety

The COVID-19 pandemic brought many challenges that the health and medical field have never encountered. Although the initial response was led by a sense of urgency and crisis management, the State Surgeon General believes it is critical that as public health professionals, responses are adapted to the present to chart a future guided by data.

The State Surgeon General is notifying the health care sector and public of a substantial increase in Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) reports from Florida after the COVID-19 vaccine rollout.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat Feb 18, 2023 1:05 pm

Max Peck wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:53 pm Florida has some thoughts

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Feb 18, 2023 1:38 pm

The State Surgeon General is notifying the health care sector and public of a substantial increase in Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) reports from Florida after the COVID-19 vaccine rollout.

It's amazing to me (not really) that a State Surgeon General - someone with a medical degree and an additional PhD in health policy - doesn't understand what VAERS is or how it works. But I guess maybe he does and that's why he's the Surgeon General in FL.

Spoiler: VAERS is an open-submission reporting system. You can log into VAERS right now and tell them your last COVID-19 vaccine made your shoes fall off and it will be entered as an official observation.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 2:20 pm

Even thought it was mentioned in another thread, this article really digs into the politics:

On February 15, Nichols introduced HB 154 via the House Health & Welfare Committee.

...

It simply stated that, “A person may not provide or administer a vaccine developed using messenger ribonucleic acid technology for use in an individual or any other mammal in this state.” So in other words, this would apply to giving mRNA vaccines not only to humans but also to other mammals such as bighorn sheep if you were so inclined. The next line clarified that, “A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.”

...

So why is Nichols choosing now, of all times, to introduce this bill? According to Alexandra Duggan reporting for KTVB7 News, Nichols told the House Health & Welfare Committee, “We have issues (the vaccine) was fast tracked.” She continued by saying, “I think there is a lot of information that comes out with concerns to blood clots and heart issues.” So, if Nichols is concerned about what happened at the federal level with Pfizer and Moderna, why not address these companies directly rather than try to punish innocent health care workers? Or if Nichols wants more testing of the vaccines to be done, how about pushing for more funding to support such research? Unless, introducing this bill is more about, oh, let’s see, politics, perhaps?

Of note:

Meanwhile, Idaho has had the sixth lowest Covid-19 vaccination rates among the U.S. states and territories. Only 56% of the population have been fully vaccinated, based on data from the New York Times. This breaks down to 19% of five-to-11-year-olds, 41% of 12-to-17-years-olds, 61% of 18-to-64-year-olds, and 89% of those 65 years and older. Again, this is just being fully vaccinated, meaning the first two doses of Covid-19 vaccine. Booster rates have been much, much lower.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:39 pm

How does Idaho's covid fatality rate compare to other states? I'm curious whether there's a clear correlation between vaccination rates and population outcomes, or if the data are just too noisy.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:48 pm

You'd probably need to seek out reliable excess death statistics. If a government is downplaying COVID, I expect deaths attributed to the disease to be undercounted.

In terms of raw per capita deaths attributed to COVID, they seem slightly better than the middle of the pack relative (#34 according to Worldometers). Not horrible, not great, possibly not to be trusted.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 4:46 pm

Don’t we also need to weigh population density and other demographics in assessing this? Seems there may be a number of reasons Idaho could have low vaccination rates but also not have the worst COVID outcomes.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:49 pm

Lee County GOP passes “Ban The Jab” resolution

Members of the executive committee passed the “Ban The Jab” resolution, designed to ban the distribution of the COVID-19 vaccine in the state of Florida.

The resolution calls for Gov. Ron DeSantis to ban the sale and distribution of the COVID-19 vaccine. It does not, however, obligate him to take any action.

The resolution required a two-thirds majority vote to pass. Since it has, the resolution will be sent to DeSantis.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Thu Feb 23, 2023 3:51 pm

Florida surgeon general fudged data for dubious COVID analysis, tipster says

Florida's health department opened and then closed an investigation into the state's polarizing surgeon general, Joseph Ladapo, after a tipster claiming to have insider knowledge alleged that Ladapo "manipulated data" and committed "scientific fraud" in his final edits to what became a contentious, widely panned analysis on COVID-19 vaccine safety in young men.

That's all according to a report by Politico, which reviewed state documents on the investigation, including the original complaint from the tipster. Those documents appear to raise more questions than answers regarding the accusations and the health department's investigation. According to the documents, the Florida Department of Health’s inspector general opened an investigation in November of last year but closed it at an undisclosed time because the anonymous complainant didn't respond to follow-up questions.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:07 am

Defiant wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:49 pm Lee County GOP passes “Ban The Jab” resolution

Members of the executive committee passed the “Ban The Jab” resolution, designed to ban the distribution of the COVID-19 vaccine in the state of Florida.

The resolution calls for Gov. Ron DeSantis to ban the sale and distribution of the COVID-19 vaccine. It does not, however, obligate him to take any action.

The resolution required a two-thirds majority vote to pass. Since it has, the resolution will be sent to DeSantis.

Banning the vaccine. Seriously. What the actual fuck.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:14 pm

Unagi wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:07 am Banning the vaccine. Seriously. What the actual fuck.

I am telling you, there are going to be states that are looking to repeal all vaccination requirements - especially for kids - over the next 5+ years. We're headed into a really shitty timeline.

Unrelated, but political:

Former Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.) attributed his decision to retire due to the long-term effects of COVID-19, telling local newspaper Tulsa World that certain symptoms were still affecting him day-to-day.

Inhofe voted against multiple coronavirus aid packages meant to help Americans at the height of the pandemic, including the Families First Coronavirus Response Act approved overwhelmingly by 90 senators in March 2020, and the American Rescue Plan in March 2021.

The 88-year-old did not say which symptoms he was dealing with. But he suggested he was in good company, alleging that other elected representatives in Congress are also struggling with long COVID behind the scenes.

“Five or six others have (long COVID), but I’m the only one who admits it,” Inhofe told Tulsa World.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:08 pm

Irony...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gop-ex-s ... 5bf8777e81

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:13 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:14 pm
Unagi wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:07 am Banning the vaccine. Seriously. What the actual fuck.
I am telling you, there are going to be states that are looking to repeal all vaccination requirements - especially for kids - over the next 5+ years. We're headed into a really shitty timeline.

That's really not good, but nothing like banning a vaccination.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:16 pm

That's true - in my mind I translated it to "Banning vaccine requirements for K-12 institutions". Different but similar end result.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:36 pm

I’m sure you agree.

“You can’t do it, even if you want to. In fact, it’s now illegal.” is much much worse than “ok, fine, we won’t make you if you can’t give a shit.”

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Sat Feb 25, 2023 12:52 am

Former Republican Senator James Inhofe, who retired at the end of last year, announced that he suffered from symptoms of long Covid after he voted repeatedly against Covid-19 aid packages.

“Five or six others have (long COVID), but I’m the only one who admits,” he said. Senator Tim Kaine, the Democratic senator from Virginia, said last year that he suffered lingering effects of Covid-19.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 89221.html

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:31 am

So I get a county Jury Duty a couple of months ago. No follow up when I mentioned I'm immunosupressed and don't go out. I'm still in limbo.

Yesterday I get a state summons for the 18th District. No excuses. I am show up all day on the 10th. So three years of isolation and the state is like fuck it, into the mixing bowl with you. Period.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:11 pm

Show up in a heavy mask and refuse to take it off, and explain you couldn’t help but be biased against anyone who made you take it off. Would be an interesting experiment.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:34 pm

Zarathud wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:11 pm Show up in a heavy mask and refuse to take it off, and explain you couldn’t help but be biased against anyone who made you take it off. Would be an interesting experiment.

Does this constitute legal advice?

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:57 pm

No, but a practical experiment on COVID-19 politics in your area. I can’t bail you out of jail in your state.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:28 pm

Among the requirements is a note about mask requirements but I have been mask required district to pay a BS speeding ticket where masks were required. The security guy to let me in the building didn't even have a mask on nor a single clerk. Only a part of the line Shmoes all coming in for same BS speeding ticket were wearing masks. I've been to our Civil Office where masks were "strongly recommended" and as of the moment I walked in exactly one person was wearing a mask.

I plan to wear an N-95 for the duration (which will suck) and I will carry the mandatory mask note with me and be insistent on compliance. The (not so) funny thing is that I can request a medical deferral (which may be thrown out anyway) if I get them a written note from a doctor submit to the court house 10 days prior to the date I'm supposed to verify. That means from the summons I received Saturday evening, I have tomorrow to get a written note form a doctor in the hands of the court prior to Tuesday, wherein they would probably deny my request to defer anyway.

On the bright side, it's my municipality. The last four times I've been called, it's been county and I've had to drive to the other side of the county, fight traffic, and pay for parking that was nearly the amount of the pittance of a check they gave me for taking a day off of work. This is likely to be first time I've ever had to sit on a jury as well. The other four times I've gone I was herded like cattle all day while in front of one court room after another while they do a last minute settlement/plea. I've made it to selection once, for domestic abuse and they never even got to me for asking questions before going back in to the herd. This time it's free parking and a 10 minute drive. From the summons wording, the odds of me not sitting on a jury are pretty slim.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Sun Feb 26, 2023 3:17 pm

Per Dr Oz

"Healthcare is between a woman, her doctor and the local politicians "

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:47 pm

Was wondering when this would start:

Customers should be required to show their faces before being allowed into businesses, NYPD officials urged on Tuesday.

Removing a mask and allowing identification can be a “condition of entry,” NYPD Chief of Department Jeffrey Maddrey said. Businesses can then allow people to put masks back on after they’ve shown their face.

“We’re seeing far too often where people are coming up to our businesses, sometimes with masks, sometimes with masks, hoods and latex gloves, and they’re being allowed, they’re being buzzed in and allowed to enter the store and we have a robbery,” Maddrey said.

Before the COVID pandemic, most businesses wouldn’t allow people inside with covered faces, Maddrey said. It’s since become a way of life.

“We need our businesses to be proactive and do their due diligence,” Maddrey said. “We need to make sure people are identifying themselves.”

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:55 pm

I'm not sure I'm bothered by the idea of briefly identifying yourself before entering a business, especially those that have to buzz people in.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:11 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:55 pm I'm not sure I'm bothered by the idea of briefly identifying yourself before entering a business, especially those that have to buzz people in.

Me either but the wording kinda ugh'd me.

Businesses can then allow people to put masks back on after they’ve shown their face.

As if the police allow Businesses to allow people to put masks on and that businesses should have the prerogative to not allow people to put masks on. I know that's not the intent but it feels that way.