[HBO Max] The Last of Us [SPOILERS]

[Holman]

I felt a little cheated by the ending of episode 5.

Spoiler:

Everything about the new characters made compelling narrative sense until then. They'd earned a place in the party, but then they were gone in 90 seconds. It just felt like a video-game way to streamline the story back down to our two protagonists.

Meanwhile, I've been meaning to point out something I noticed in the beginning of Episode 3:

Spoiler:

When Ellie is in the convenience store (gas station?) basement and finds the half-buried and immobile mushroom, she spends a little time interacting with it.

When she pulls out her knife, the soon-to-be victim tracks the blade with his eye and then seems to give a little nod. It really felt like it was asking to be put out of its misery. This suggests that the infected retain some humanity as long as they can.

Did anyone else catch this?

[Jaymann]

Where is episode 6? Later today. Never mind.

[Jaymann]

I wish they had not fast forwarded past the journey from KC to Wyoming with no vehicle. I was surprised when:

Spoiler:

It looked like Ellie was going to leave with Tommy. I did not remember that from the game.

[Smoove_B]

It was a nice change of pace that they had Ep8 storyline revealed and wrapped up in a single shot. I feel like other shows might have dragged that out for 2-3 episodes. Also regarding Joel

Spoiler:

I'm beginning to think he's really not a good guy.

That was some scene.

[Jaymann]

That episode closely followed the game, I remember playing that section.

[naednek]

It was a nice change of pace that they had Ep8 storyline revealed and wrapped up in a single shot. I feel like other shows might have dragged that out for 2-3 episodes. Also regarding Joel

Spoiler:

I'm beginning to think he's really not a good guy.

That was some scene.

which is funny, because i feel they are rushing the story. I feel like they need 2-3 more episodes to fill in gaps, expand the relationship between Ellie and Joel.

[rittchard]

It was a nice change of pace that they had Ep8 storyline revealed and wrapped up in a single shot. I feel like other shows might have dragged that out for 2-3 episodes. Also regarding Joel

Spoiler:

I'm beginning to think he's really not a good guy.

That was some scene.

Spoiler:

Not sure what you mean here by “good guy”. As far as he knows, it’s kill or be killed for him (AND for Ellie), so “good” is pretty relative in terms of saving both himself and Ellie. Presuming he was awake to hear her, I just assumed he trusted her assessment of the situation, not to mention they already tried to kill him before. I guess you could argue neither of them really knew the group they ran into were psycho rapist/cannibals at the time so it was a little presumptuous to kill them outright, but in the apocalypse they have to go with their instincts to survive. If he left them alive and tied up, they would either starve to death, or if they escaped they’d be a threat again.

[Smoove_B]

Regarding my observation on Joel:

Spoiler:

He's been presented as a reformed individual. Someone that did (and was capable of doing) anything to survive. He's seemingly moved on from that (at least that was my interpretation as someone watching on the show, having never played the game) and up until meeting Ellie had just been "existing" without actively harming others.

From the show last night he was able to slip right back into the person he was 15+ (?) years earlier. He was ruthless and efficient. He extracted the info he needed and just straight up killed the other guy. That is...hardcore. That's Rick going into the communications relay station and killing people in their sleep level of character change, imho.

I'm not saying he was wrong but his complete lack of hesitation and straight up torture is not something I would say is common in a protagonist's portrayal.

He demonstrated early on with the pickup truck scene he's still capable. This was a whole different level, imho.

[EvilHomer3k]

Regarding my observation on Joel:

Spoiler:

He's been presented as a reformed individual. Someone that did (and was capable of doing) anything to survive. He's seemingly moved on from that (at least that was my interpretation as someone watching on the show, having never played the game) and up until meeting Ellie had just been "existing" without actively harming others.

From the show last night he was able to slip right back into the person he was 15+ (?) years earlier. He was ruthless and efficient. He extracted the info he needed and just straight up killed the other guy. That is...hardcore. That's Rick going into the communications relay station and killing people in their sleep level of character change, imho.

I'm not saying he was wrong but his complete lack of hesitation and straight up torture is not something I would say is common in a protagonist's portrayal.

He demonstrated early on with the pickup truck scene he's still capable. This was a whole different level, imho.

Spoiler:

It was surprising that he killed both of them. He did seem to be someone who didn't kill unless he thought it was necessary. I believe this was necessary as far as he knew but still a bit on the brutal side. I wouldn't go so far as Rick invading someone elses home and killing them all in their sleep, though. That's a level or two above this. These specific men came looking for him and Ellie with the intent to kill them.

Overall it was another great episode.

Spoiler:

I thought they did a nice job of giving you that creepy something isn't right here vibe at the beginning with the preacher and then throughout the story making you wonder just a little bit if he was a decent person. Then showing you that the little feeling you had at the beginning was such an understatement of how bad this guy was. I would say my only complaint is how quickly Joel recovered overall seemed a bit too quick.

[rittchard]

Regarding my observation on Joel:

Spoiler:

He's been presented as a reformed individual. Someone that did (and was capable of doing) anything to survive. He's seemingly moved on from that (at least that was my interpretation as someone watching on the show, having never played the game) and up until meeting Ellie had just been "existing" without actively harming others.

From the show last night he was able to slip right back into the person he was 15+ (?) years earlier. He was ruthless and efficient. He extracted the info he needed and just straight up killed the other guy. That is...hardcore. That's Rick going into the communications relay station and killing people in their sleep level of character change, imho.

I'm not saying he was wrong but his complete lack of hesitation and straight up torture is not something I would say is common in a protagonist's portrayal.

He demonstrated early on with the pickup truck scene he's still capable. This was a whole different level, imho.

Spoiler:

I get what you are saying, the Rick example is a good one, but that was a level worse since they had a whole group and their targets were mostly sleeping. From what I recall, they had suffered some bad losses at that point and it really was a revenge kind of scenario (that was post Glen I assume?), and it seemed like they all were more or less in favor of doing it. Definitely excessive in the context of the characters’ previous decisions.

For Joel (and Ellie as well, cuz her kills were pretty brutal too), I think I saw the brutality as more desperation and I guess more “reasonable” from that angle. We’ve seen acceptable torture from many of our (anti) heroes, like Kiefer in 24. Joel was already injured, so his window and margin for error to save Ellie was already very small. He may have even thought they’d already killed or harmed her. Leaving those guys alive would certainly show some mercy, but in this world and these circumstances, it seems like it would have just been a flat out mistake.

[Jaymann]

Spoiler:

And those two guys that Joel killed were the only two who had definite intel on him. Everyone else was just speculating.

Also, IMO Joel was driven to extremes to protect Ellie. More so than self preservation. This was emphasized in their heartfelt reunion. Up until then he was putting on an act of not really caring.

[hepcat]

….and we’re back to post apocalyptic crazed leader stories. A decade of Walking Dead has given me an almost visceral reaction to this trope. I like the show, but aside from the Offerman episode, I struggle to understand why it’s getting so many accolades.

[Smoove_B]

To be fair, they're following the content of the game (apparently) which is a decade old. It also feels like it's a big part of the story so changing it (she's captured by clowns?) was probably off the table.

Regarding all the other observations listed above in spoilers in response to my comments on Joel - I absolutely agree. I think what surprised me most was that I wasn't expecting him to act that way.

[hepcat]

so changing it (she's captured by clowns?)

I would like to read your spec script on this, please.

[Hyena]

Regarding my observation on Joel:

Spoiler:

He's been presented as a reformed individual. Someone that did (and was capable of doing) anything to survive. He's seemingly moved on from that (at least that was my interpretation as someone watching on the show, having never played the game) and up until meeting Ellie had just been "existing" without actively harming others.

From the show last night he was able to slip right back into the person he was 15+ (?) years earlier. He was ruthless and efficient. He extracted the info he needed and just straight up killed the other guy. That is...hardcore. That's Rick going into the communications relay station and killing people in their sleep level of character change, imho.

I'm not saying he was wrong but his complete lack of hesitation and straight up torture is not something I would say is common in a protagonist's portrayal.

He demonstrated early on with the pickup truck scene he's still capable. This was a whole different level, imho.

I see what your saying here, but my take is

Spoiler:

it's a William Munny situation. He'd gone and quasi-domesticated the animal within, but let it outta the cage when he needed it. Its not something he wants to do, but knowing he wasnt in any shape to have a prolonged fight; efficiency is the name of the game. The quest has become way more personal than he ever thought it would and he will NOT lose another daughter.

[Smoove_B]

I think that's a good comparison. Either way, I'm still really enjoying the show and I'm going to be sad when it ends this coming weekend.

[coopasonic]

….and we’re back to post apocalyptic crazed leader stories. A decade of Walking Dead has given me an almost visceral reaction to this trope. I like the show, but aside from the Offerman episode, I struggle to understand why it’s getting so many accolades.

Yeah, it's quite unbelievable that people with power would turn out to be psychopaths when there is no real accountability... so very unrealistic.

[naednek]

….and we’re back to post apocalyptic crazed leader stories. A decade of Walking Dead has given me an almost visceral reaction to this trope. I like the show, but aside from the Offerman episode, I struggle to understand why it’s getting so many accolades.

maybe storytelling?

[Smoove_B]

And the fact that Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal are killing it from an acting perspective. And not for anything, all the supporting cast has been A+ as well.

[Hyena]

And the fact that Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal are killing it from an acting perspective. And not for anything, all the supporting cast has been A+ as well.

Agreed. It truly seems like each episode is better than the last in terms of performances and settings.

[hepcat]

….and we’re back to post apocalyptic crazed leader stories. A decade of Walking Dead has given me an almost visceral reaction to this trope. I like the show, but aside from the Offerman episode, I struggle to understand why it’s getting so many accolades.

Yeah, it's quite unbelievable that people with power would turn out to be psychopaths when there is no real accountability... so very unrealistic.

When you run into them every 75 feet, yeah…it kinda is.

This show hasn’t gone all Walking Dead with it…yet, but the WD franchise constantly running to that well has made me gun shy.

But back on topic: i readily admit the acting is very good. I guess what I want is something…unique? That is the best way I can say it. “Struggling to survive” isn’t enough for me right now. It should be, and I’m not saying anyone is wrong in praising the show, but I’m just burned out on this particular story at the moment.

[Holman]

And the fact that Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal are killing it from an acting perspective. And not for anything, all the supporting cast has been A+ as well.

This.

On supporting cast:

Spoiler:

The actor playing the preacher did a fantastic job with it. It's probably easy to overlook because he was ultimately such a baddy, but I got chills from what appeared to be (and actually was, in a certain way) his desperate sincerity in caring for his flock and reaching out to Ellie as a potential convert. I have been on church retreats with that guy. More than once.

And then the whiplash from "I see myself in you" to outright open evil was so well done. That kind of turn is harder than it looks.

I have to say that I suspected cannibalism from the get-go, though. They go from talking about the father's corpse to serving a meal no one seems enthusiastic about eating in the space of about a minute.

[McNutt]

I like that the zombies are not the focus of the show and, for the most part, are absent. I watched the first season of TWD and got tired of the constant zombie fighting. Maybe that slowed down later, but I didn't have the patience to find out.

[Kurth]

And the fact that Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal are killing it from an acting perspective. And not for anything, all the supporting cast has been A+ as well.

Speaking of supporting cast, did you all catch that the actor, Troy Baker, who played the preacher’s right hand man (the one Ellie took out with a cleaver) is the guy who played Joel in the games?

[wonderpug]

And the fact that Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal are killing it from an acting perspective. And not for anything, all the supporting cast has been A+ as well.

Speaking of supporting cast, did you all catch that the actor, Troy Baker, who played the preacher’s right hand man (the one Ellie took out with a cleaver) is the guy who played Joel in the games?

Did not know! That's really cool!

[Jaymann]

Go Team Joel!

Spoiler:

Who knew that he was a brain surgeon?

[Kurth]

And the fact that Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal are killing it from an acting perspective. And not for anything, all the supporting cast has been A+ as well.

Speaking of supporting cast, did you all catch that the actor, Troy Baker, who played the preacher’s right hand man (the one Ellie took out with a cleaver) is the guy who played Joel in the games?

Did not know! That's really cool!

And another strong turn for a video game cast member playing a role in the HBO series:

Spoiler:

Ellie’s mother in the series is played by Ellie in the game. And she did an amazing job, too, I thought.

[coopasonic]

Enjoyed it from start to finish. I think it captured the game pretty well. I think Ellie may have been a bit more belligerent in the show than in the game, but it could also be my memory betraying me.

I'd say best video game to series adaptation ever but that's an incredibly low bar. I am not sure Arcane counts. I am not really familiar with the source material. I guess Castlevania and Edgerunners are good too, so maybe the last few years have seen things improve on that front.

[naednek]

And the fact that Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal are killing it from an acting perspective. And not for anything, all the supporting cast has been A+ as well.

Speaking of supporting cast, did you all catch that the actor, Troy Baker, who played the preacher’s right hand man (the one Ellie took out with a cleaver) is the guy who played Joel in the games?

Just wait till you find about another character reveal from the finale

[Kurth]

And the fact that Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal are killing it from an acting perspective. And not for anything, all the supporting cast has been A+ as well.

Speaking of supporting cast, did you all catch that the actor, Troy Baker, who played the preacher’s right hand man (the one Ellie took out with a cleaver) is the guy who played Joel in the games?

Just wait till you find about another character reveal from the finale

Ummm . . .Check the post directly above (spoilered).

[Zaxxon]

And the fact that Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal are killing it from an acting perspective. And not for anything, all the supporting cast has been A+ as well.

Speaking of supporting cast, did you all catch that the actor, Troy Baker, who played the preacher’s right hand man (the one Ellie took out with a cleaver) is the guy who played Joel in the games?

Just wait till you find about another character reveal from the finale

Ummm . . .Check the post directly above (spoilered).

Yes, but what about the other other game actor who had an appearance in ep 9? (No, I'm not kidding)

[Kurth]

And the fact that Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal are killing it from an acting perspective. And not for anything, all the supporting cast has been A+ as well.

Speaking of supporting cast, did you all catch that the actor, Troy Baker, who played the preacher’s right hand man (the one Ellie took out with a cleaver) is the guy who played Joel in the games?

Just wait till you find about another character reveal from the finale

Ummm . . .Check the post directly above (spoilered).

Yes, but what about the other other game actor who had an appearance in ep 9? (No, I'm not kidding)

Who???

[Zaxxon]

Spoilering since she's part of Part 2...

Spoiler:

[Kurth]

Spoilering since she's part of Part 2...

Spoiler:

Damn. I missed that one. Do we know who plays her in the second season yet?

[Zaxxon]

We (I) do not.

[Scraper]

Spoilering since she's part of Part 2...

Spoiler:

Damn. I missed that one. Do we know who plays her in the second season yet?

Who ever it is is going to have to be a lot more buff than that nurse.

[hepcat]

Excellent end to the season. I was afraid it would turn into Walking Dead post season 2, but they ended the season with a fantastic decision that wasn't black and white in its morality.

Spoiler:

Joel was protecting Ellie, the Fireflies were trying to protect humanity. There was no Governor or Negan, it was two sides both doing what they thought was right. The Fireflies weren't gloating maniacal dictators, they were humans that wanted to do the right thing for the larger group and they hated that they had to sacrifice Ellie for that. Joel was a protective father.

If given the choice, I think Ellie would have decided to help humanity. But Joel spared her that incredibly difficult decision.

p.s. if I'd finished Last of Us on the PS4, would that have the ending I encountered? Or was it changed for the show?

Side note: Rainn Wilson has a point when he calls out an earlier episode for anti-Christian bias. I'm far from religious minded (as is Wilson, apparently), but if you read his point it makes sense. The moment someone shows up in one of these shows reading from a bible, you can almost be assured they'll be the villain. I hope they avoid that trope next season.

[coopasonic]

p.s. if I'd finished Last of Us on the PS4, would that have the ending I encountered? Or was it changed for the show?

Spoiler:

very much the same

[Scraper]

p.s. if I'd finished Last of Us on the PS4, would that have the ending I encountered? Or was it changed for the show?

Spoiler:

very much the same

Spoiler:

Yep, the ending is one of the things that made the game so great. In fact the entire hospital scene where he is mowing the fireflies down at the end is almost shot for shot like the game, even the weapons he comes across.

[disarm]

p.s. if I'd finished Last of Us on the PS4, would that have the ending I encountered? Or was it changed for the show?

Not really spoiling anything, but...

Spoiler:

That ending, and many other aspects of the show, are portrayed pretty much exactly like the game. If you want to see just how closely the entire show mimics scenes from the game, you should check out one of the many cutscene compilations available on YouTube (like this one). Many scenes from the show are "shot for shot" remakes of the game, which emphasizes just how well made and cinematic the game turned out.