LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

[Daehawk]

Theres still fair law abiding judges out there not swayed by party bullshit that uphold the law as it is written. No matter how our southern states leaders try to hurt others by being childish little dicks.

Federal judges in Kentucky and Tennessee block portions of transgender youth care bans

Federal judges in Kentucky and Tennessee on Wednesday blocked portions of bans on gender-affirming care for transgender youth, handing down the rulings shortly before the statutes were set to go into effect.

The ruling is similar to roadblocks that federal courts have thrown up against Republican-dominant states in their pursuit to prevent young people from receiving transgender health care.

In both Kentucky and Tennessee, the judges blocked portions of the law that would have banned transgender youth from accessing puberty blockers and hormone therapy. In the Tennessee case, the judge stopped short of also blocking the ban on gender-affirming surgeries for youth.

[Smoove_B]

Who could have possibly seen this coming?

In the wake of a Supreme Court ruling giving businesses new grounds to discriminate against LGBTQ customers, a Michigan hair salon owner has vowed to ban some members of the community from her business. In a rambling Facebook post, the owner of Traverse City-based Studio 8 Hair Lab, Christine Geiger, said she would decline service to customers who requested a specific pronoun be used, The Kansas City Star reported. “If a human identifies as anything other than a man/woman please seek services at a local pet groomer. You are not welcome at this salon. Period,” the post reads. Geiger, who later deleted the Facebook page and set her business’ Instagram to private, reaffirmed her stance in a vitriolic comment on Facebook. “I am admitting that since I am not willing to play the pronoun game or cater to requests outside of what I perceive as normal,” Geiger wrote.

[hepcat]

This really needs to result in people banning customers because they don’t accept some groups. I see no reason why that can’t be declared a personal religious belief.

Fuck that bigot Thomas and the rest of his cronies who are trying to drag this country backwards.

[ImLawBoy]

That's already permitted under the law. You can say you won't serve Republicans or Democrats because they are not protected classes.

[hepcat]

Well then, world have at it.

[Smoove_B]

Broadly, I am confident there will be excellent, nuanced discussion and finally full acceptance when you tell a red-hat they're not welcome in your store.

[hepcat]

To be fair, it’s unlikely they’ll be patronizing Hepcat’s House of Holistic Hair Care any time in the future.

[Isgrimnur]

Broadly, I am confident there will be excellent, nuanced discussion and finally full acceptance when you tell a red-hat they're not welcome in your store.

That's why you reach for the bat before you start the conversation.

[Smoove_B]

Oh look, more surprises:

Since Waco judge Dianne Hensley received a public warning from the State Commission on Judicial Conduct for refusing to perform same-sex marriages in 2019, she’s waged a public battle against the state agency.

She’s long claimed the governmental body violated state law by punishing her for actions taken in accordance with her religious faith. Now, she has submitted a brief arguing that the recent Supreme Court ruling in favor of a business owner who refused services to same-sex couples will help her case.

...

Her lawsuit was dismissed by a lower appeals tribunal, but last month, the Texas Supreme Court said it will hear arguments on whether to revive the state judge’s lawsuit.

This new brief, submitted last week by Hensley’s legal team, argues that though the Supreme Court used the First Amendment and not state law in the 303 Creative LLC v. Elenis case, the decision is also applicable in her lawsuit. The First Amendment case decided last month said a Colorado web designer cannot be forced by the state to compromise her beliefs and serve same-sex couples.

Now, it's not the same a 303 Creative (business owner vs public official) but I guess we'll see what happens.

[stessier]

She has to lose. She is an agent of the state. If one can't do what the state job requires, one is welcome to look for employment elsewhere. Any other decision will lead to all sorts of chaos.

[Smoove_B]

I mean, look how long it took for Kim Davis to learn that.

[Blackhawk]

Any other decision will lead to all sorts of chaos.

I don't think this point of reason holds much weight anymore.

[Smoove_B]

I've been following this loosely, but was happy to see this news:

Vanderbilt University Medical Center is being sued by its transgender clinic patients, who accuse the hospital of violating their privacy by turning their records over to Tennessee’s attorney general.

Two patients sued Monday in Nashville Chancery Court, saying they were among more than 100 people whose records were sent by Vanderbilt to Attorney General Jonathan Skrmetti. His office has said it is examining medical billing in a “run of the mill” fraud investigation that isn’t directed at patients or their families. Vanderbilt has said it was required by law to comply.

The patients say Vanderbilt was aware that Tennessee authorities are hostile toward the rights of transgender people, and should have removed their personally identifying information before turning over the records.

...

The attorney general’s office made the requests several months after conservative commentator Matt Walsh surfaced videos last September that include a medical center doctor saying gender-affirming procedures are “huge money makers” for hospitals. Vanderbilt paused all gender-affirming surgeries for minors the next month under pressure from Republican lawmakers and Gov. Bill Lee, who demanded an investigation.

Vanderbilt said it had provided about five gender-affirming surgeries to minors each year since its clinic opened in 2018, all to people over 16 who had parental consent. None received genital procedures.

Tennessee lawmakers then passed a ban on gender-affirming care for minors. A federal appeals court recently let it take effect after a lower court judge blocked it.

[Unagi]

What is a gender-affirming surgery that doesn't involve genitals? Is this entirely about breast reduction? That's my only guess.

[Smoove_B]

I'd think anything that addresses physical appearance - things like facial plastic surgery or tracheal shave/implant.

[Unagi]

I thought about the tracheal shave, but that (I've been advised) is a problematic surgery as it can deepen the voice.

[gilraen]

Children's Hospital of Colorado announced they would stop providing gender-affirming surgeries to adults. They never actually provided surgery to minors under 18.

[LawBeefaroni]

LAKE ARROWHEAD (KABC) -- A beloved store owner in Lake Arrowhead was shot and killed during a dispute over a Pride flag, officials say.

The shooting happened around 5 p.m. Friday at the Mag Pi clothing store on Hook Creek Road in Cedar Glen.

When deputies arrived, they found 66-year-old Laura Ann Carleton with a gunshot wound. She was pronounced dead on the scene.

...

Deputies found the suspect near Torrey and Rause Rancho Roads, armed with a handgun.

"When deputies attempted to contact the suspect, a lethal force encounter occurred and the suspect was pronounced deceased," read an update from the sheriff's department. No deputies were injured.

https://abc7.com/lake-arrowhead-store-o ... /13673754/



More fruits of the GOP echo chamber.

[Smoove_B]

Details about the shooter:

The man who shot and killed the store owner last week over her display of a pride flag outside her store was a far-right conspiracy theorist who shared deeply anti-LGBTQ and antisemitic content on his social media accounts.

...

But a review of 27-year-old’s social media accounts on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter, and the far-right social network Gab, show that the shooter had fully embraced a wide range of conspiracy theories—from claiming the 9/11 attacks were staged to suggestions that former first lady Michelle Obama is a man to denying climate change. He also posted content opposing gun control measures.

The shooter spent much of his time online sharing anti-LGBTQ content, reposting and responding to content shared by right-wing figures like commentator Matt Walsh and fringe networks like One America News. His pinned tweet, posted in June, simply showed a rainbow flag on fire with the caption: “What to do with the LGBTQP [sic] flag.”

On Gab, one of his pinned posts was even more explicitly threatening to the LGBTQ community. “We need to STOP COMPROMISING on this LGBT dictatorship and not let them take over our lives,” he wrote. “Stop accepting this abomination that the government is forcing us to submit to these mentally disordered tyrants.”

Another pinned post on Gab featured a link to a video entitled: “When Should You Shoot a Cop,” along with the caption: “There will come a time that we have to do this.” While the shooter’s X profile remains active, his Gab profile was removed late on Monday. X and Gab did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

The majority of the suspect’s posts are infused with an overt Christian nationalism, which quickly gives way to virulent antisemitism in much of the content he shared online.

[Alefroth]

An all too common profile.

[Kraken]

Uganda charges first man with aggravated homosexuality under new law

The "Anti-Homosexuality Act of 2023" was signed into law by President Yoweri Museveni in late May. The law imposes the death penalty for engaging in "same-sex sexual acts." Instances include having sex while infected with a virus like HIV, having sex with a minor and having sex with a person with a disability.

Gay marriage is also forbidden and punishable by life in prison, under the new law.

Prohibiting marriage between executed people is the last straw.

[Daehawk]

Its shameful how humans treat their own kind. Stuff like this should not be up to others . In fact no one should have any say so in your sexual orientation or love life.

[Alefroth]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66654134

Canada has issued a new travel warning to its LGBT citizens planning to visit the United States.

Anti-LGBT protests in the US rose 30-fold last year compared with 2017, while legal moves to restrict LGBT rights are on the rise.

Global Affairs Canada warned that some state laws may affect them on their travels, but did not specify where.

Such warnings are usually reserved for countries such as Uganda, Russia or Egypt.

[Pyperkub]

An all too common profile.

And also, unlike organized crime/gang violence where law enforcement pressure can get the violence to simmer down to protect gang income, law enforcement pressure here becomes a threat to political power and short circuited.

It's as if Capone WAS the mayor, rather than just holding (a LOT of) influence.


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[Grifman]

“Americans are conflicted on trans rights. Almost all oppose discrimination. Yet a majority (and rising share) think gender is determined by sex at birth (a view also held by 40% of Democrats)”

https://www.economist.com/united-states ... r-identity

[GreenGoo]

Some Dems are flat earthers too.

Luckily reality doesn't depend on what people believe.

Politicians have tried to make climate change illegal. Ignorance can be cured, until it's made illegal to cure it. Legislation is the problem.

[ImLawBoy]

In a way it's somewhat comforting that people are still against discrimination even if they believe that gender is determined by sex at birth. They still want to treat people right even if they disagree with their "choices". ("Choices" is in quote there, because I presume these people believe that transgender people are making an election to change their gender as opposed to expressing their true gender.)

[GreenGoo]

I suppose.

I don't believe in trans people so how could I possibly be prejudice against them? is a helluvan argument.

[ImLawBoy]

That's . . . not the argument.

They're saying they oppose discrimination against transgender people, even if they think transgenderism (is that a word?) is a choice rather than a true expression of that person's gender.

[coopasonic]

I am an educated liberal who used to actually be pretty smart, though biology was never really my thing, and I still don't really understand the concept that gender is a social construct. I guess it is the difference between sex and gender? I mean I totally understand that gender ROLES are a social construct. On the other hand it doesn't cost me a damn thing to use the preferred pronouns and the post-transition name. I've seen metaphors for gender dysphoria that resonated with me but having not experienced it, it's hard to understand, but again it doesn't cost me anything to believe people personal experiences.

[Blackhawk]

“Americans are conflicted on trans rights. Almost all oppose discrimination. Yet a majority (and rising share) think gender is determined by sex at birth (a view also held by 40% of Democrats)”

I'd be willing to bet that very, very few of the people questioned actually knew the distinction between sex and gender.

[Blackhawk]

I am an educated liberal who used to actually be pretty smart, though biology was never really my thing, and I still don't really understand the concept that gender is a social construct. I guess it is the difference between sex and gender? I mean I totally understand that gender ROLES are a social construct.

I'd guess that you understand better than you think. The ROLES are a social construct, and that's pretty much the whole of it. Gender no longer really refers to physical qualities at all. Gender (modern usage) is pretty much entirely the roles and qualities that we (society) assign to people. It is our understanding of what a 'male' or 'female' is, our expectations of them, and which category we (traditionally) have assigned to them. Look at 'act like a man' and 'be more ladylike' - that's 100% gender. The modern usage deals with which* of those gender roles you naturally fit into. It's your instincts, your qualities, your mannerisms, your daily norms, your drives, your feelings, your preferences, etc.

The problem is that for most of our history, we've accepted people when their gender role and sex (what's hanging - or not - between your legs) match. When they don't match, we've either outcast them or forced them to conform ("boys don't play with dolls!") And now the people whose sex and gender don't match are speaking out, and saying - hey, why should we suppress who we are and be miserable in order to not make you uncomfortable? They've decided that being different no longer means that they need to be 'fixed.'

*Unlike (most) sex, gender isn't male or female. It is a huge range of qualities that leads to a spectrum effect, which is why you also end up with non-binary people, etc (whose role doesn't match the neat definition of either male or female, but rather some of both. It's also worth mentioning that human manifestations of the pure 'male' and pure 'female' ideas are exceptionally rare in the real world, and most of those that seem that way or forcing it.

In the end, a big chunk of the problem is that the meanings of the words changed, the same way 'gay' no longer means happy. And people taking surveys (and talking with friends and family) aren't really understanding that 'gender' and 'sex' aren't two words for the same thing anymore.

[GreenGoo]

That's . . . not the argument.

They're saying they oppose discrimination against transgender people, even if they think transgenderism (is that a word?) is a choice rather than a true expression of that person's gender.

Fair enough. That's how I took it from the quoted text.

edit: Glanced at the article. I think it supports my view more than yours, but since there are a range of views in the article, it's hard to tell. Likely some people feel as you believe, and some (which were the focus of at least a few paragraphs) believe otherwise.

[Blackhawk]

Actually, if I were going to try to be more succinct (me?) I'd say this:

Sex refers to whether someone is male or female.
Gender refers to how masculine or feminine someone is.

It's a huge oversimplification, but it might get people thinking in the right direction.

[Blackhawk]

One last post - seriously, I need to go play some Starfield!

So much of the confusion these days over pronouns is that when we assumed that gender and sex matched, pronouns were easy. But when sex and gender don't match, people don't know which one to draw from for the pronouns.

[GreenGoo]

Actually, if I were going to try to be more succinct (me?) I'd say this:

Sex refers to whether someone is male or female.

It's a huge oversimplification, but it might get people thinking in the right direction.

I think it's important to emphasize the biological component here. The entire significance of trans is when a person's biological sex does not match their internal (for lack of a better word. How they feel about themselves, and originally specifically feelings that originate without thinking about it directly. i.e. never asking the question "what gender am I?" but more "Everyone sees me as this gender but that doesn't feel correct to me") gender.

The point being, biology is not the final word, despite everyone believing it was for most of recorded history, and the survey suggests that many believe it today.

edit: I am neither an expert on the subject nor do I know anyone personally, although it's likely there are some people at the 2nd degree of separation. I do try to educate myself, but in this particular instance, I have a partial understanding at best. Still, I don't make comments I am completely unsure of, or if I do, I mention it at the time. The above is my interpretation of what I've read.

[YellowKing]

Which is why it's not at all surprising that the party whose members have seemingly zero ability to empathize with others has such a hard time wrapping their heads around the concept. These are the same people that tell someone with depression to "snap out of it." (And before anyone says anything, I'm just making a point about their lack of empathy, not trying to equate gender identity with mental disorders).

[Blackhawk]

I took it to mean that they have zero tolerance for anybody who deviates from the norm.

I still think that if more people understood the difference between 'gender' as it's used now and 'gender' as it used to be used, surveys like the one that started this discussion would give very different results, and we'd find that people are a lot less 'conflicted' than we think. The fact that so many people don't understand that sex and gender now mean different things is responsible for a lot of confusion, and people who would be 100% in agreement that gender isn't tied to birth end up saying the opposite.

It's not a lack of tolerance, it's a question that requires certain knowledge to answer accurately.

[Zarathud]

We’ve come a long way, baby.

Some comedian joked that in the 70s-80s, the more a guy looked like a girl then the more the ladies loved him. David Bowie, Twisted Sister, Robert Smith, Steven Tyler, Annie Lennox.

Now any teen going through puberty identity issues has more space to explore, not just rock stars. That’s fine — and will make no sense to the olds who have themselves figured out. Or not.

I tell my kids they’ll know their orientation and gender later — like when they realize they have a “type” they fall for repeatedly. For me, it’s been Irish chicks with legs and short hair. No rush, you’ll know when it hits you. Repeatedly.

In the meantime, it’s a Big Deal for them. Because it’s all new. And tests the boundaries of the olds, which becomes part of young people’s identity in figuring out their way that often rejects the bullshit they’ve been taught. Or accepts it like a comfortable security blanket, which rejects another group.

It’s typical teenage drama — which is why politicians who try to capitalize on it are despicable. Pick on the new version of hippies, and demand a new generation of Alex P. Keatons just so their insecure voters don’t feel left behind.

[Blackhawk]

when they realize they have a “type” they fall for repeatedly. For me, it’s been Irish chicks with legs and short hair.

Hey, me, too! I also prefer short hair, and it's a big plus when women have legs.