Jagged Alliance 3 (again!)

[$iljanus]

Hired Mouse and Kalyna. Want Wolf, but he's offline. Want a medic - but every single one in the first two tiers seems to be offline with the exception of Thor - and he won't join the team because ?

I guess I'll have to go with a filler merc until something becomes available, but I don't like not having a medic.

I said screw it and restarted after the first mission. Mouse and Kalyna just weren't working for me (I was having trouble getting my head around my eventual CQB/stealth badass wearing yoga pants and a pink sweater.) This time I made my custom, then hired Thor, Raven, and Barry. I'm much happier with this group.

I think before I go any deeper into the game I’m going to custom plus three as well! But I’m keeping Fox because she wracked up a pretty good body count with each restart.

[stimpy]

Whelp......
I get to the title screen and then this:


Verified files, uninstalled and reinstalled twice.
Sigh.....

[hepcat]

Did you buy the Amiga version by accident maybe?

[Carpet_pissr]

the devs have uploaded a workshop mod that shows the chance to hit, although they do point out that they believe the game plays better without it.

I will agree to disagree with the devs, then.

As soon as I engaged my first baddies, I immediately missed seeing my percentages like in JA2. I think that was a huge part of the fun of the previous games, and a bit shocked that they removed that one, key element that is so…”JA”. So wrong. I must have been playing a mod which added them in.

Also, it must be said that I’m pretty sure this is the first time I’m playing a game on Day One and able to discuss with you guys as I’m playing it. 19 freaking. Years. First time.

[jztemple2]

I'm barely hanging in here due to my usual problem, I can't deal with money . I have captured a diamond mine and the adjacent village but the income isn't enough to offset the cost of my four mercs. I keep being driven to move into new squares just to try to find more money.

I've now lost Steroid too but have hired Livewire for her mech abilities. With her completing my four person fireteam I captured both the mine and the village with almost no wounds at all. However, I'm out of meds so I can't heal wounds... I guess I have to figure out where to buy them.

[Exodor]

Another hour of gameplay, another squad wipe.

I just don't think I have the patience for this sort of game anymore. Requested a refund.

[Max Peck]

However, I'm out of meds so I can't heal wounds... I guess I have to figure out where to buy them.

I'm still on the first island, but I've been getting more meds from scavenging herbs than I've been using to heal wounds. So far.

[jztemple2]

Sector maps can vary quite a bit in size. I went through one that was just a small field with a few items, then later on I went to a town and port and it took over an hour of real time just walking around the place to finally hunt down the last of the enemies.

I lost another merc, my doc, and what was even more serious is that I took a boat from a port to a place and it turns out I had to go through a couple of enemy held places just to find a port so I could leave to go back to my original island. So point taken, if you travel over the water you might have a hard time getting back!

I'm at eight hours in and still having fun. Each time I felt like I was down to the last possible mission before my money ran out I got a reprieve by finding just enough cash to keep going, then I was finally able to get a larger amount so I could finally hire a fourth merc and get some training and repair done. The game is nicely balanced in this way, but sheesh I find I really need to hire only really cheap mercs.

[Max Peck]

I've been having a rough enough time on the Isle o' Ernie that I wish this game had something like this to help me up the learning curve:



Although, to be fair to 2-and-a-half-decades-younger me, it's in near mint condition with a bit of shelf-wear, so I clearly didn't need to lean on it back then.

[Carpet_pissr]

Way too early criticisms, perhaps, but two biggies for me so far, some of these inspired by points I read in reviews I read that I agree with :

-The tactical combat feels nothing like JA2. It’s OK, to above average IMO (and still fun) but it’s very much like the modern Wastelands and X-Coms (again, not a bad thing!). Yeah, I know they would have turned down a pile of revenue from sales if they had not completely overhauled this part of the game, but it DOES lose a big chunk of what made the OG games so great IMO, and what made them “JA”. This obviously can’t and won’t be fixed with a patch due to how integral a part of the game this is, so a bit disappointed there. I just have to shift my wishful thinking of I guess a JA 1.14.

-The view is SO tight and zoomed in, I feel almost claustrophobic. I miss the almost bird’s eye view from JA that let you see multiple possibilities, routes, choke points, possible escapes, etc. it’s so damn tight I have not even seen an instance where I can see my shooting merc and their shooting victim on screen at the same time (but again, WAY too early…maybe it’s just the starting map that’s set up that way intentionally) EDIT: Alleviated QUITE a bit by my discovery of the "O" key!

-I’m not crazy about the simplified inventory and loot management, but it didn’t immediately turn me off. Maybe I’ll grow to like it with more playtime.

The graphics are fine, but note that it does default to SMAA if you were wondering why the frame rates seem lower than they should be for this type of game. I assume that’s a bug but maybe not?

The Steam reviews have crept up to around 80%, now, which is probably where I’m at so far, at this VERY early stage.

Bottom line, they obviously tried hard to keep the game true to its source material, and in so many ways they did: the mercs, the voices and quips, the selection process, maybe the difficulty, and certainly story and setting. But IMO they significantly changed the ONE thing that fans of the series loved the most - the combat, which is of course the real heart of the game.

I don’t expect them to change that in any way, but I REALLY hope they can at least grant me an option to have the old JA2 perspective in a future patch.

[Max Peck]

It's been so long since the last time I played JA2 that I just don't have much of a feel for how the combat systems differ aside from the hit % being visible or not. It doesn't not feel like JA to me, but that doesn't really mean much without going back to JA2 to refresh my memory.

I too wish there was a proper tactical map instead of just the zoomed out overhead view. I suspect that there will be mods that either zoom out the overhead view even further, or add a proper tactical map of some sort.

[Punisher]

I've been having a rough enough time on the Isle o' Ernie that I wish this game had something like this to help me up the learning curve:



Although, to be fair to 2-and-a-half-decades-younger me, it's in near mint condition with a bit of shelf-wear, so I clearly didn't need to lean on it back then.

There are already sites with strategies up so maybe looking through those can help.

[Punisher]

For the zoomed out map issue have you seen the PDA view? That's more zoomed out than normal and pretty good for strategy.
Just hit O.
If you have Intel on the area that will be shown here too.

[Max Peck]

For the zoomed out map issue have you seen the PDA view? That's more zoomed out than normal and pretty good for strategy.
Just hit O.
If you have Intel on the area that will be shown here too.

Yeah, that's what I meant by "zoomed out overhead view" but I couldn't remember the proper name for it. It's useful, but I'd still like to have a cleaner (2D?) tactical overview map.

There are already sites with strategies up so maybe looking through those can help.

I mostly just wanted to brag on still having the JA2 strategy guide.

[Madmarcus]

The interface is growing on me as I expected it would. I'm sure my memory is faulty but overall I get the feeling of JA2 prior to 1.13 with the limited and simplified inventory plus hidden hit chances. Even the AI of the enemies so far feel a little like the AI in the unmodded JA2. Overall a Wasteland 3 / JA 2 mix is a pretty fun thing!

[Carpet_pissr]

It's been so long since the last time I played JA2 that I just don't have much of a feel for how the combat systems differ aside from the hit % being visible or not. It doesn't not feel like JA to me, but that doesn't really mean much without going back to JA2 to refresh my memory.

I too wish there was a proper tactical map instead of just the zoomed out overhead view. I suspect that there will be mods that either zoom out the overhead view even further, or add a proper tactical map of some sort.

Not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I mean in combat, the default camera feels very zoomed in, especially compared to previous titles, which changes...well everything IMO, in terms of the feel and tactics of combat. You aren't even allowed to zoom out very far for some reason (which again, hopefully can easily be patched or modded). I need to stop before putting more hours in, though, this could all be due to early maps, and different maps could open up, etc.

EDIT: Nevermind, for the most part: I just now discovered the "O" key which does bring things up quite nicely compared to the "non-O" view. I can see!!!

One more gripe - I do miss the thrill of finding weapon mods like silencers, or duct tape...which as far as I can tell, has been removed from the game (or maybe you have to buy them, not sure). Things like that were so relatively rare to find, and just that slight tweak to your TO HIT % could be huge due to the difficulty of the game.

Finally, I was not sure what happened during my first battle, until I read the below from Rock, Paper, Shotgun:
"Enemies who spot you do the utterly bullshit "free turn to run to cover thing" like in XCOM, so you'll want to set up ambushes."

My very first combat scene, I tried to sneak Ice behind a merc that was apart from his fellow baddies by a good distance, for a stealth kill. The rest of my team was laying in wait with overwatch I guess, but in cover and could see all the remaining enemies, clear LOS), to pick off the rest of the goons when they reacted to the loner being offed. Ice (well, me) failed, or I chose to just shoot him from close range (was not sure how to do a stealth kill), and then the rest of the baddies were just gone! WTF man. Booo!!!!

Also not crazy about the apparent 360º visibility of all combatants while in combat. That's a pretty big mechanical departure from the OG game, which I also thought made it very interesting, super difficult, but fun.

[coopasonic]

was not sure how to do a stealth kill

I had the same issue. Equip a melee weapon like a combat knife or machete, before you approach (QUICKSAVE!), prepare the takedown by targeting them, select neck, right click to improve hit chance, then left click neck. Now approach the target, preferably from behind an when you get close you will make the attack. When you miss the 90% swing, reload and try again. Note that if anyone is anywhere close with line of sight combat will start. You also stand up for a few seconds as you make the melee attack, making you more visible to nearby enemies. It's kind of pain but super satisfying when you can pull it off.

Weapon mods - you don't find mods directly, but you'll find some weapons with mods and you'll find materials for crafting better mods. Most basic mods just take parts, but scopes require lenses, silencers require steel, advanced mods require chips.

Also, somehow, I have 11.5 hours played... and I had to work yesterday!

[jztemple2]

was not sure how to do a stealth kill

I had the same issue. Equip a melee weapon like a combat knife or machete, before you approach (QUICKSAVE!), prepare the takedown by targeting them, select neck, right click to improve hit chance, then left click neck. Now approach the target, preferably from behind an when you get close you will make the attack. When you miss the 90% swing, reload and try again. Note that if anyone is anywhere close with line of sight combat will start. You also stand up for a few seconds as you make the melee attack, making you more visible to nearby enemies. It's kind of pain but super satisfying when you can pull it off.

Thank you for posting this, I had no idea how to do a melee attack.

[jztemple2]

Oh yeah, my three person team versus 14 enemy who have rockets and mortars? Yup, retreat sure sounds like an option

[jztemple2]

I am eagerly awaiting someone to create a mod that will continuously highlight loot and med locations so I don't have to wander all around each map clicking on things . I've posted the suggestion over on Discord.

[Max Peck]

I am eagerly awaiting someone to create a mod that will continuously highlight loot and med locations so I don't have to wander all around each map clicking on things . I've posted the suggestion over on Discord.

You don't need a mod. You just need to tap the alt key to toggle highlight interactables on and off.

[coopasonic]

Oh yeah, my three person team versus 14 enemy who have rockets and mortars? Yup, retreat sure sounds like an option

I started out with 3 and bumped it up to five and have been pretty happy with that for a while. After capturing my second diamond mine I make way more money than I need.

[Carpet_pissr]

Oh yeah, my three person team versus 14 enemy who have rockets and mortars? Yup, retreat sure sounds like an option

I started out with 3 and bumped it up to five and have been pretty happy with that for a while. After capturing my second diamond mine I make way more money than I need.

What difficulty level? I bumped mine up one from ‘normal’ based on a few reviewers that said it was not “JA hard” (paraphrasing) on the default setting.

[jztemple2]

I am eagerly awaiting someone to create a mod that will continuously highlight loot and med locations so I don't have to wander all around each map clicking on things . I've posted the suggestion over on Discord.

You don't need a mod. You just need to tap the alt key to toggle highlight interactables on and off.

OMG, yet another thing I've missed . Thanks for this.

I've posted my Steam review after 11.8 hours:

I'm not going to compare this to older JA games because it's been so long since I've played them that it would be pointless. JA3 is fun to play, although some things like the camera could be better. Combat works OK and for those who want actual percentages for the shots, there's already a mod on the Steam Workshop for that.

Some folks have complained about the UI, but I've found that I've quickly adapted to it. The graphics are good. The maps are exceptional, each sector has it's own flavor and uniqueness. The voice acting is good, although repetitive after a while. Menus are straightforward although again it takes some time to understand where everything is.

The story telling is exceptional. After eleven hours on the same campaign I'm still on the edge of my seat trying to not go broke or get everybody killed. New missions and events keep popping up; the enemy will occasionally raid my locations or I'll come across some info that leads to a new adventure. There's nothing to complain about in how well crafted the campaign is.

Overall it certainly is worth the price and the time one needs to put into it.

[coopasonic]

Oh yeah, my three person team versus 14 enemy who have rockets and mortars? Yup, retreat sure sounds like an option

I started out with 3 and bumped it up to five and have been pretty happy with that for a while. After capturing my second diamond mine I make way more money than I need.

What difficulty level? I bumped mine up one from ‘normal’ based on a few reviewers that said it was not “JA hard” (paraphrasing) on the default setting.

Whatever constitutes normal. I'm already save-scumming like a madman I'd hate to see how higher difficulty treated me. Though honestly I am not save scumming because I need to, but because I hate the stealth system.

[Punisher]

Another hour of gameplay, another squad wipe.

I just don't think I have the patience for this sort of game anymore. Requested a refund.

For the record. If the main reason is money management you can just use a trainer or something.
I have no desire or patience to deal with the money management aspect and have edited it.
I just want to enjoy the story and gameplay.
I can keep a small squad when I want to or a maxed out squad to get through a section that's just frustrating me.

[jztemple2]

The stealth system is odd and I wish I could pause time before the enemy becomes aware.. or is that something else I've missed?

[Isgrimnur]

I think there's something wrong with my video settings.

[Punisher]

I think there's something wrong with my video settings.

Did you try enabling ambient occlusion?
Maybe upgrade to an RTX 4090TI?

[jztemple2]

ambient occlusion

That's my stripper name

[Blackhawk]

Thoughts:

1. I cannot find an XP bar/indicator anywhere.
2. I wish that there was a way to set an accuracy threshold for overwatch. It's incredibly powerful, but the mercs also like to dump ammo on impossible shots.
3. I've decided that I'm OK with not knowing the hit chances. JA2 didn't have them, and it became more about, "Do I spend the extra AP for a better chance? Do I risk the headshot?" With the hit chances visible, I think I'd be more focused on the math, "If I take the headshot, it gives +X damage, but lowers my hit by Y%, so if I spend two AP to aim it will counter that and keep me above Z% chance." That sounds less fun.

[Blackhawk]

Also, there are a lot of options in the right-click menu for items, such as modifying weapons and switching ammo types.

[jztemple2]

<holds up hand>

OK, I admit it. I twice started a fight and was getting my ass kicked. So I loaded the "start of day" save and when the battle was about to start I instead selected "auto-resolve". I won the fight without losing a merc, although four of the five were injured, and I picked up twelve grand in diamonds.

Don't hate me

<puts down hand>

UPDATE: Again, forgot to check the basics. I don't need meds to heal if I just sit in place on the strategic map and have my merc do nothing.

[Blackhawk]

Ok, this game desperately needs an option to pause without being in an engagement. Trying to set up a stealth shot, or moving multiple mercs into position simultaneously (like when there are enemies headed your way, you need to get your sniper on the roof, your gunner in an emplacement, and the others into cover) is borderline impossible.

Also: Barry, you moron. Throw the grenade OUT of the window.

[Punisher]

Ok, this game desperately needs an option to pause without being in an engagement. Trying to set up a stealth shot, or moving multiple mercs into position simultaneously (like when there are enemies headed your way, you need to get your sniper on the roof, your gunner in an emplacement, and the others into cover) is borderline impossible.

Also: Barry, you moron. Throw the grenade OUT of the window.

I've been just getting my team well back then slowly moving them one at a time to get into positions. I usually start with the furthest end position or the end position that is least likely to draw attention if left there.
I also make sure that everyone is in hiding mode and crouching or crawling.

As for the throwing. In case you didn't realize it, they show the arc and direction of the throw before throwing it so make sure YOUR initial aim is accurate.
That being said, I suspect that if you line it up perfectly but your character gets a bad throwing roll that it may go off course anyway.

[Scoop20906]

I too can not find each merc's XP bar but they are leveling up. Also, I was confused where the Sector Stash was. Turns out it is on the Sat view behind the Items & Stash button in the lower right.

In my 2nd playthrough I have Dr. Q, Livewire, and Kalyna. Dr. Q is an amazing CQC barehanded fighter. With free melee attacks (Hit and Run) and Frogleaping he can take down goons really quick or hit them in the throat to make the collapse and punch them to death. Kalyna is starting to become a serviceable sniper (love the sound of a good headshot) and Livewire has some great abilities but horrible in combat. Finally just gave her a shotgun and hoped she can survive behind cover until once goon comes to close.

I am enjoying all the side quests and stories so far. The music is great and sometimes surprises me how pleasant it is to listen.

And I don't think anyone has mentioned this but loading times are A-MAZING! Like loading up a save takes like 5 seconds. Its great because I've been save scumming this run and really fast to go back after bumbling into a room for 7 mercs.

Just took my first mine and now I need to see about raising the revenue. Mercs aren't cheap and I want a Shadow!!

[jztemple2]

I've put in 16.2 hours so far and I'm still on my first campaign with the default difficulty settings. I've been save scumming but mostly because of the weird initial free movement on the map which is really frustrating. There seriously needs to be a pause button so I can not have to try to aim at a literal moving target; if you mis-click just a little you end up moving your merc . I am astonished with the quality of the polish in the rest of the game that the playtesters didn't raise a big red flag on that.

I've just finished up Day 72 defending the Port Cacao Docks in a wild mission that is so full of spoilers I can't even think about it as I type . I have just over fifty grand cash and a six person squad. I might have to break down and start a new squad, but I know how fast the money gets used up playing for mercs.

[Madmarcus]

There seriously needs to be a pause button so I can not have to try to aim at a literal moving target;

I don't mind that too much. It's frustrating but so far (finishing the island) it isn't horrible. I suspect that the thought is that we should be setting up overwatch instead of trying to manually trigger the ambush. That might even work well but, as Blackhawk said, there are times when you don't have enough time to position everyone.

[coopasonic]

Mines run out.

[jztemple2]

Mines run out.

Yup, that was something I hadn't counted on, but I've found a second mine and maybe that one will last longer.