[TV] Wheel of Time series

JCC · Post by **JCC** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:24 pm

In the books, it's pretty clear who the Dragon is by mid-book or so. Technically, it's officially revealed at the end of the first book, so the show didn't do anything early. I would imagine the pace of the story is going to pick up greatly unless they truly are going to try to do a book per season.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:25 pm

JCC wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:24 pm In the books, it's pretty clear who the Dragon is by mid-book or so. Technically, it's officially revealed at the end of the first book, so the show didn't do anything early. I would imagine the pace of the story is going to pick up greatly unless they truly are going to try to do a book per season.

Supposedly next season is books 2 and 3.

JCC · Post by **JCC** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:20 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:25 pm Supposedly next season is books 2 and 3.

That makes sense. They are definitely going to have to try to get through at least 2 books a season going forward to have any hope of finishing the story. I assume a lot of harsh cuts will be made that will enrage some fans.

It was interesting to me that ....

(Book spoilers)

Spoiler:

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:31 pm

JCC wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:20 pm
Zaxxon wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:25 pm Supposedly next season is books 2 and 3.
That makes sense. They are definitely going to have to try to get through at least 2 books a season going forward to have any hope of finishing the story. I assume a lot of harsh cuts will be made that will enrage some fans.

It was interesting to me that ....

(Book spoilers)
Spoiler:
Camelyn was completely cut out - most notably Elayne. I can only imagine the nerd range if she is just completely excised. (I assume she won't be...) Min was moved from there to the Borderlands. I believe I heard the innkeeper in Tar Valon named as Master Gill so his inn was moved...

A lot of the books was fulfilling prophecies. The show doesn't seem to be mentioning those, so they can really do whatever they want. Which could be cool - it just won't be the story that Jordan wrote.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:31 pm

JCC wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:20 pm
Zaxxon wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:25 pm Supposedly next season is books 2 and 3.
That makes sense. They are definitely going to have to try to get through at least 2 books a season going forward to have any hope of finishing the story. I assume a lot of harsh cuts will be made that will enrage some fans.

It was interesting to me that ....

(Book spoilers)
Spoiler:
Camelyn was completely cut out - most notably Elayne. I can only imagine the nerd range if she is just completely excised. (I assume she won't be...) Min was moved from there to the Borderlands. I believe I heard the innkeeper in Tar Valon named as Master Gill so his inn was moved...

It's all rather enraging to me, and I'm not even the biggest WoT fan (having read the books only an average of 1.5 times). Daniel Greene has thoughts I agree with (warning: Greene is... a lot sometimes). Namely, Amazon billed this as a huge, major, big-budget production yet clearly rushed the thing out (see Greene's comments about how terrible the 2nd Trolloc battle was VFXed) and isn't giving it nearly enough episodes. 8 episodes for even one WoT book is absurd, much less 8 for 2 books next season. (Is it confirmed to remain at 8?)

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:44 pm

JCC wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:20 pm
Zaxxon wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:25 pm Supposedly next season is books 2 and 3.
That makes sense. They are definitely going to have to try to get through at least 2 books a season going forward to have any hope of finishing the story. I assume a lot of harsh cuts will be made that will enrage some fans.

It was interesting to me that ....

(Book spoilers)
Spoiler:
Camelyn was completely cut out - most notably Elayne. I can only imagine the nerd range if she is just completely excised. (I assume she won't be...) Min was moved from there to the Borderlands. I believe I heard the innkeeper in Tar Valon named as Master Gill so his inn was moved...

I have no problem with doing some edits to finish the story. Especially books 8-10 where RJ wandered off while really not advancing much of anything in each book save for a chapter or two and then tried to pull *everything* together as all hell breaks loose in book 11 before Sanderson had to finish it up.

JCC · Post by **JCC** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:53 pm

I think there have to be pretty massive cuts to the plot to finish the show at all. We will be lucky if the show gets 7 seasons without major recasts being needed. It's a minor miracle Game of Thrones was able to greatly minimize the casting changes.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:55 pm

JCC wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:53 pm I think there have to be pretty massive cuts to the plot to finish the show at all. We will be lucky if the show gets 7 seasons without major recasts being needed.

I mean, we didn't get one, so I guess that lucky event is already out.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:57 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:31 pm It's all rather enraging to me, and I'm not even the biggest WoT fan (having read the books only an average of 1.5 times). Daniel Greene has thoughts I agree with (warning: Greene is... a lot sometimes).

That was a good review - thanks for the link. His ideas around Perrin and Matt's absence make a lot of sense and explain the end. I really agree with him that by the end of the book series, a reader fully understands how the world works and that it was a pretty big failing of the show to not be able to get that across. One of the biggest losses (in my opinion) was not explaining all of the threads of each power. It would have been so easy to take 5 minutes when teaching Egwene over the camp fire to say "hey, not sure what you've heard through the legends, but there are five powers channelers can use, this is what they do and historically this is how men and women differ in strength. Now relax and try and float in the river..." The white "misty' simplification irritates me every time they use it.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:10 pm

I don't want to bitch too much, as it was truly an impossible task to try to adapt this particular series in this particular way. By definition a huge amount of fidelity has to be tossed out the window. I really wish they could have had 12 or 13 episodes/season (or even 10!), though.

JCC · Post by **JCC** » Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:22 pm

I honestly thought the show was great - with the exception of the final episode which basically sucked. I don't even really mind the cuts - I mean they just aren't going to do 20 seasons to finish this thing - and even if they did there would likely need to be a lot of cuts. It's a massive, MASSIVE story. I was very pleasantly surprised how good it was.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon May 16, 2022 3:54 pm

Missed this yesterday on Polygon:

Amazon hasn’t said yet. But with filming underway since July 2021 (again, before season 1 premiered), one could hope that season 2 will be here before the year is out. Still, with Lord of the Rings premiering in early September, it’ll likely be the final quarter of 2022 before we catch up with the ta’veren.

“We are going to be really thoughtful about how we release these shows,” Vernon Sanders, Amazon Studios’ head of global TV, told TV Line in December 2021. “In our minds, they are very different shows, but we are cognizant of our genre fans, and we are excited about the collection of content we have.”

There's a lot more in the article, but that's the first I've seen anyone guessing at when S2 will air.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed May 18, 2022 1:29 pm

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:02 pm

Season 3 of the Wheel of Time has been ordered.

In a comment released to press, showrunner Rafe Judkins mentioned that this third season would be based on the fourth book in Robert Jordan’s series, The Shadow Rising. “I’m so thrilled that we’ll be making a third season of The Wheel of Time,” Judkins said. “The Shadow Rising has always been my favorite book in the series, so being able to bring it to television and introduce new audiences to the stories that made me fall in love with these books in the first place is such an honor, and something I’ve been working toward since I first pitched the show years and years ago.”

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:01 pm

Fresh off NYC Comic Con, "Season 1 Recap & Season 2 Sneak Peek"

Its like...50 seconds, but on the off chance someone cares...

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:03 pm

now that's a recap

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:18 am

S2 Trailer

Coming 9/1/23

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:18 am

I'll watch season 2, even though I'm already cringing. I've seen few shows based on a novel that strayed so far as season 1 did, straight up negating major parts of the plot in the first episode. It's more of a 'vaguely inspired by' than a 'based on.'

Spoilers for the... trailer? And possibly a vague reference to minor events of the book.

"We didn't defeat the Dark One. We set him free!"

Wait... what?

/edit - and they already have Rand chatting with Logain Ablar?

I see they've changed the a'dam so that it implies slavery less. Odd choice for a device used for slavery and presented in a way that's intended to make the reader uncomfortable and hate the thing. They seem to have replaced it with a mask. Which several characters need to be able to have full dialogue in while heavily emoting.

Also, why is Rand strapped to a wheel, and why is he bald? I'm guessing that it's something they're doing related to Rhuidean.

On the bright side, I am looking forward to seeing how they handle the Aiel (although my hopes aren't high that they'll handle them with the cultural depth they have in the novels.) I know that the one we see in the trailer is...

Spoiler:

Also, they're showing the Moiraine/Siuan relationship again. I'm actually OK with that one, as it is something that was mentioned as having happened in the novels, even though they never showed it. Then again, Rand and Egwene boinking in season 1 was just... weird.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:22 am

I will be hate watching Season 2. S1 gets worse and worse in my mind the further I get from it.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:47 am

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:18 am Also, why is Rand strapped to a wheel...

Is it perhaps the Wheel of Time?

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:53 am

Jaymann wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:47 am
Blackhawk wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:18 am Also, why is Rand strapped to a wheel...
Is it perhaps the Wheel of Time?

It's absolutely a representation of The Wheel. Given the way they strapped him to it, I can only assume they're getting ready to break his arms and legs and hang him in the town square (more likely it's some sort of Aiel test of endurance or something.)

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:05 pm

YellowKing wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:22 am I will be hate watching Season 2. S1 gets worse and worse in my mind the further I get from it.

Ditto

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:31 pm

I will continue to watch and enjoy it with next to no recollection of the books. Forgetfulness will set you free!

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 1:12 pm

coopasonic wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:31 pm I will continue to watch and enjoy it with next to no recollection of the books. Forgetfulness will set you free!

Given that I'm currently reading the books, that kind of forgetfulness would be a bad thing.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:37 pm

I’m reading the books (only slightly behind Blackhawk) and can see huge tracts that could be edited — they create feeling and themes by repetition that can be more clearly achieved visually.

For example, the depiction of Matt in S1 was very different but leaned into his “unreliable” reputation, with a soft spot for the women in his life. I think the actor did ok, but a better actor could have done more. The relationship between Morraine and Suian was implied in the book, but the books then focus on Suian’s growing relationship with the Captain-General. The dream-temptations of Rand in S1 are better than the book IMO in showing corruption in the Source.

So I didn’t hate it, but they’re taking big risks in the adaptation that can be rough.

EvilHomer3k · Post by **EvilHomer3k** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 3:53 pm

coopasonic wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:31 pm I will continue to watch and enjoy it with next to no recollection of the books. Forgetfulness will set you free!

I haven't read the books so I don't even need to forget. It's much easier to enjoy when you don't compare it to something else.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 4:13 pm

I absolutely agree that books need to be adapted to film, not transposed. For instance, the weaving (magic) being visible and involving elaborate gestures. In the books, a battle between two channelers would look like two people standing there looking at each other. That makes for bad TV. And emphasizing the relationship between Siuan and Moiraine is fine. Just like yoinking Tom Bombadil and expanding Arwen improved Lord of the Rings as a film (even if it did cost us the Barrow Downs and Glorfindel.)

But imagine Game of Thrones if, in season 1, they made dragons common all over the world. It wouldn't make a big difference in season 1, but it would wreck the long-term plot. Daenerys would cease to be relevant beyond her bloodline, and most of what she didn't couldn't happen.

I think the big season 1 changes that bothered me the most, primarily due to their long-term effects on the story, were (spoilers here are mild and mainly for the show):

Spoiler:

~The Dragon could have been male or female in the show. That completely removes certain core elements of the setting that become very, very important later, and are at the heart of how the world views The Dragon.
~They downgraded what The Dragon is. For those who don't know the books (and I'm speaking from the perspective of people from the world), suggesting that someone is The Dragon is comparable to suggesting that someone is a witch in the 17th century. Other people even considering the possibility would cause violence against the accused. Someone actually being The Dragon would cause mass worldwide panic, wars, and chaos. It literally means that there's an apocalypse about to happen, and soon. It's like telling people in the Harry Potter universe that you're Voldemort, except far worse. In the show, it's shrugged off as a curiosity (Moiraine would never have told the group that one of them was The Dragon!)
~Without getting too deeply into an argument again, the diversity of Emond's Field. The world that Jordan created is extremely diverse and non-stereotypical, with a large number of very distinct cultures (none of them pulled from a single source culture like so many lazy fantasy authors do) with different skin tones, speech patterns, architecture, clothing, customs, etc., and a number of major characters that could have been introduced in season one are from those diverse cultures (as with Lan.) By making the rural backwater so diverse, it weakens the uniqueness of the other cultures once they start introducing the Domani, the Shienarans, the Saldeans, the Atha'an Miere, and so on. Casting for diversity is good, but they did so in a way that compromised the setting by weakening the value of diversity later in the story.
~It made the characters too old. A huge part of the first few books is them coming of age and coming to terms with the effects of being Ta'veren (basically, everything starts revolving around them, regardless of how hard they struggle to get away from it.)
~Bleeping Nynaeve resurrecting people left and right.

There were certainly other issues with narrative, presentation, and so on (there were too many main characters for the first season, there was very little world building on a series known for its world building, no real antagonist, etc), but that can be overcome. And there were changes that I hated (Thom, Loial) that, to be honest, don't make a difference except to book readers. But it is the changes to the events that are essential for the plot later that bother me the most.

I'm actually dreading how they deal with... (bigger spoiler for the show and for the first few novels.)

Spoiler:

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:39 am

Just a bump to remind everyone that S2 started last night and I believe the first 3 episodes are now available. The remaining 5 will be coming each Thursday/Friday, depending on your time zone.

The AV Club seemed hopeful.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:54 pm

Thanks for the reminder, I want to see how they handle the new Mat.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Sep 02, 2023 7:49 am

Isn't a "wheel of time" just a clock?

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:32 am

The good news is they found a cure for insomnia.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:32 pm

I must say it picked up the pace in episode 3 and I'm looking forward to the next installment. And does anyone else hate the Blonde Aryan Bitch with the Jay Leno jaw as much as I do?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:40 pm

Jaymann wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:32 pm I must say it picked up the pace in episode 3 and I'm looking forward to the next installment. And does anyone else hate the Blonde Aryan Bitch with the Jay Leno jaw as much as I do?

Liandrin?

Spoiler:

I'm enjoying this season, although (Moiraine spoiler)

Spoiler:

Also (Arches spoiler)

Spoiler:

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:49 pm

Given that I just started book 13 of 14 right now, I'm holding off watching any more of this. I don't want to mix their lore/imagery with the book lore and my mental imagery.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:51 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:40 pm
Jaymann wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:32 pm I must say it picked up the pace in episode 3 and I'm looking forward to the next installment. And does anyone else hate the Blonde Aryan Bitch with the Jay Leno jaw as much as I do?
Also (Arches spoiler)

Spoiler:
Why the need to make 'the way back will come but once' be a lie for Nynaeve's third arch? Just for more drama? Bah.

I wondered about that too. I hope they have a better explanation (in the books perhaps?) than A Wizard Did It.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:52 pm

Jaymann wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:51 pm I wondered about that too. I hope they have a better explanation (in the books perhaps?) than A Wizard Did It.

Doesn't happen in the books, hence my chagrin.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:19 am

I'll admit, I haven't read the WoT books (in particular the first ~5) in like 20+ years at this point), but I am really struggling with S2. I don't remember 90% of what they're showing in these first two episodes.

Have we hit "inspired by the Wheel of Time series" at this point or is my memory just bad?

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:00 am

They’ve hit heavily inspired by WOT. I just finished Jordan’s books and started Sanderson’s books in the series.

They’ve jumped parts way ahead — and have to show rather than tell the pressure of training and dysfunction of the Red Ajah. It’s amazing how much Jordan rambles to fill out the world.

I’m trying to keep open minded until it’s clear what they’re doing in showing Aes Seadi training. It could pay off, or flop.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:44 am

I still really like the show, but with a large cast and multiple locations, they need to do a better job of setting the scenes. Especially when they don't name the characters in the dialog - I had to pause just to make sure that was Liandrin Sedai for example, and I can't remember who Perrin is traveling with at all- but it's great that Amazon's pause shows current character names ! The actors playing Egwane and Nynaeve also look too similar.

I also wouldn't mind a bit more of the book intro of the wheel weaving myths and Legends into the fabric of different ages, it would lend a more majestic scope to what's happening, and could be a good tool to illustrate Ta'veren visually.

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hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 9:05 pm

The second season is much better than the first. It feels more like Game of Thrones and less like Xena.