Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column

[Drazzil]

Or instead of handling doing the bombing and retributions ourselves, if another terrorist attack comes from Afghanistan, blow up a Russian pipeline, or a Chinese mine. Make our anger very apparent and the Russian and the Chinese will handle our warcriming for us. They would have zero compunctions about playing by the rules in the region and speaking a language the populace understands.

What the hell? You are suggesting either 1) carpet bombing and becoming the terrorists, likely resulting in international sanctions that would cripple the nation, and would make it really, really easy to for the terrorists to recruit new volunteers, or 2) literally starting world war 3, likely causing billions of deaths, and positioning ourselves as the bad guys from day 1 so that we'd be going it alone, without our allies.

Your over-the-top hatred and desire to inflict suffering is a sign of some real, dangerous mental illness. Get help. If I knew you in person, I'd be notifying the authorities about you right now. You're that far gone. Get help before you have a bad day and end up getting yourself and other people killed.

Oh for the love of... Clutch pearls much? I was really only suggesting a return to the status quo pre 9/11. Where we basically just bombed a place if we were angry at something. Also, targeting of foreign assets for allowing something that happened within their purview. We've done both in the past.

I really am truly sorry for that last post, and personally apologize to you for upsetting you. Also. In a vast break from my previous policy on doing R&P posts I promise that I will no longer call to violence in any of my posts. If I start to do so, just go ahead and give me a nudge, and I will remember this post.

Now back to Afghanistan please?

I think one thing the new government could do to improve relations with the rest of the world is go into the pot business. Afghanistan is home to a lot of botanical bounty and some of the original strains of what we work with today. It's kinda hard to stay mad people who sell (countries who have legalized it at least) the stickiest of the icky. Pot is a very high demand product and there is tonnes of demand for it.

[Blackhawk]

I was hardly the only one 'clutching pearls.' I was just less subtle about it.

[Zaxxon]

I really am truly sorry for that last post, and personally apologize to you for upsetting you.

No. Don't apologize for upsetting someone--if you're going to apologize, apologize for being off the deep end, and work to come to shore.

[Isgrimnur]

CNN

Flights of Afghan refugees to the US were paused Friday after four cases of measles were discovered among Afghans who had recently arrived in the country.

The White House said the halt was recommended by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention after the four measles cases were diagnosed.

[El Guapo]

CNN

Flights of Afghan refugees to the US were paused Friday after four cases of measles were discovered among Afghans who had recently arrived in the country.

The White House said the halt was recommended by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention after the four measles cases were diagnosed.

I'm just glad that no one ever engages in demagoguery related to immigrants spreading disease. Otherwise this could have gotten ugly.

[Carpet_pissr]

Is measles actually a threat? I would think that 90%+ Americans have been vaccinated against that (until it, too becomes politicized, and then we'll have to go around worrying about measles again).

[Unagi]

Is measles actually a threat? I would think that 90%+ Americans have been vaccinated against that (until it, too becomes politicized, and then we'll have to go around worrying about measles again).

lol, in what world would that -ever- happen....

[Holman]

Is measles actually a threat? I would think that 90%+ Americans have been vaccinated against that (until it, too becomes politicized, and then we'll have to go around worrying about measles again).

Measles is super-contagious, so it's a problem in hippy-dippy anti-vax suburbs and Red wastelands.

It's also very very bad to catch as an adult, and there are still Boomers walking around who never got the shot.

[dbt1949]

I'm not sure if I've ever had the shots but I had it 2-3 times when I was a kid.

[Kraken]

Yeah, measles, mumps, and chicken pox were the Big Three childhood diseases that most of us had.

[Drazzil]

Is measles actually a threat? I would think that 90%+ Americans have been vaccinated against that (until it, too becomes politicized, and then we'll have to go around worrying about measles again).

Measles is super-contagious, so it's a problem in hippy-dippy anti-vax suburbs and Red wastelands.

It's also very very bad to catch as an adult, and there are still Boomers walking around who never got the shot.

You an actually become sterile if you get the measles as an adult.

Edit: NM I can't find evidence of that anymore.

[gilraen]

Is measles actually a threat? I would think that 90%+ Americans have been vaccinated against that (until it, too becomes politicized, and then we'll have to go around worrying about measles again).

Measles is super-contagious, so it's a problem in hippy-dippy anti-vax suburbs and Red wastelands.

It's also very very bad to catch as an adult, and there are still Boomers walking around who never got the shot.

Overall measles immunization rate in the US is just above 90%, but like you said, the problem isn't the averages - it's under-vaccinates enclaves in many states, whether in religious communities or just among stupid rich white people. The immunization rates there can dip below 80%, and that's just a recipe for outbreaks (like the several ones we had in 2018).

BTW, most Boomers are probably safe - CDC considers anyone born before 1957 to be immune because measles was so endemic, you were guaranteed to catch it as a child.

At least the article says that they are administering MMR vaccines to Afghans that have already arrived at the US bases. Those vaccines are dirt cheap and won't harm you even if you already had them, if they still had enough manpower on the ground in Kabul, they should have been giving it to people right at the embassy or the airport...

[Drazzil]

Huh. I wonder where my comment about Afghanistan growing weed went. Weed's a cash crop and from what I hear Afghanistan has a lot of biodiversity in that area. Hard to be mad at a country that supplies you the stickiest of the icky.

Found it upstairs, At the tail end of my apology. Any who, repeated because I think it bears discussion. I also remember NPR saying that the roses that come out of Afghanistan are of particular note because they could theoretically replace the Heroin on a pound for pound basis.

[dbt1949]

So our leaving Afghanistan is good because everything is coming up roses?

[Blackhawk]

Every rose has it's thorn

[Drazzil]

lol

[Anonymous Bosch]

We say ISIS-K bomber planning imminent attack - they say 9 people in one family including 6 children.

Nine members of one family were killed in a US drone strike targeting a vehicle in a residential neighborhood of Kabul, according to a relative of those killed.

Those killed included six children, the youngest being a 2-year-old girl, the brother of one of the dead told a local journalist working with CNN.

He said the people killed were his brother Zamaray (40 years old), Naseer (30), Zameer (20), Faisal (10), Farzad (9), Armin (4), Benyamin (3), Ayat (2) and Sumaya (2).

The brother cried as he told the journalist that they were "an ordinary family."

"We are not ISIS or Daesh and this was a family home — where my brothers lived with their families," he said.

CNN obtained images of the aftermath of the strike. A US official confirmed the location in Kabul's Khaje Bughra neighborhood. US Central Command said earlier they were assessing the possibilities of civilian casualties.

A man named Ahad, who said he was a neighbor of the family, told CNN: "All the neighbors tried to help and brought water to put out the fire and I saw that there were 5 or 6 people dead. The father of the family and another young boy and there were two children. They were dead. They were in pieces. There were [also] two wounded."

Ahad told CNN he had witnessed the airstrike at around 5 pm local time as he walked towards his home. He said he heard the noise of the rocket and a loud bang, and ducked for cover, before trying to help rescue his neighbors. Ahad told CNN that two other people were wounded in the attack.

The US military said in their statement that there were “Significant secondary explosions from the vehicle indicated the presence of a substantial amount of explosive material,” the spokesperson said.

A local journalist who visited the scene soon after the airstrike told CNN that "whatever material was in the car, I don’t know. The car was in a very bad state, just a skeleton of the car was left."

Times Investigation: In U.S. Drone Strike, Evidence Suggests No ISIS Bomb

KABUL, Afghanistan — It was the last known missile fired by the United States in its 20-year war in Afghanistan, and the military called it a “righteous strike” — a drone attack after hours of surveillance on Aug. 29 against a vehicle that American officials thought contained an ISIS bomb and posed an imminent threat to troops at Kabul’s airport.

But a New York Times investigation of video evidence, along with interviews with more than a dozen of the driver’s co-workers and family members in Kabul, raises doubts about the U.S. version of events, including whether explosives were present in the vehicle, whether the driver had a connection to ISIS, and whether there was a second explosion after the missile struck the car.

Military officials said they did not know the identity of the car’s driver when the drone fired, but deemed him suspicious because of how they interpreted his activities that day, saying that he possibly visited an ISIS safe house and, at one point, loaded what they thought could be explosives into the car.

Times reporting has identified the driver as Zemari Ahmadi, a longtime worker for a U.S. aid group. The evidence suggests that his travels that day actually involved transporting colleagues to and from work. And an analysis of video feeds showed that what the military may have seen was Mr. Ahmadi and a colleague loading canisters of water into his trunk to bring home to his family.

While the U.S. military said the drone strike might have killed three civilians, Times reporting shows that it killed 10, including seven children, in a dense residential block.

Examining a ‘righteous’ strike

When a Hellfire missile was launched on Aug. 29 at a target in a Kabul neighborhood — a parked car suspected of containing explosives for use in a suicide attack — U.S. military officials said they were confident the driver and another man at the location had suspected militant ties and were the only people nearby.

The missile took about half a minute to reach the white sedan. In that time, three children approached the car just before it was destroyed, according to a senior U.S. military official speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing military investigation. The children were killed, the official said, and families of the victims said another seven people also died in the strike, including the driver and the second man.

U.S. Central Command’s initial description of the drone strike in a statement said that the operation targeted a vehicle linked to the Islamic State-Khorasan and produced “significant secondary explosions” from the vehicle, indicating a “substantial amount of explosive material.”

The Washington Post provided imagery of the damage caused by the strike and U.S. military assessments of the operation to experts, including a physicist and former bomb technicians, and spoke to the nonprofit that employed the driver targeted in the operation. Taken together, their assessments suggest there is no evidence the car contained explosives; two experts said evidence pointed to an ignition of fuel tank vapors as the potential cause of the second blast.

The driver’s employer, a California-based group, said his movements around the city were part of his duties for the nonprofit and said the military may have misinterpreted what he was doing as he moved from place to place and loaded packages into the vehicle.

[Unagi]

Here is a video about it:

https://nyti.ms/3BYqQis


Obviously, if he was innocent - it's a total fuckup. Totally ugly and tragic.

I know, historically speaking, I've read about a number of total fuckups over the years with the drone strikes... What seems frustrating about this one (to me) is that this threat looked like something they could have verified on the ground (not without risk) but just with better surveillance. I guess I'll say it another way: I would think a lot of people's actions, in Kabul that day, could look suspicious with this level of scrutiny.... so why the call on this guy?

Military says they saw his car leave a known safe house and intercepted communications from the safe house instructing the car...

I'd like to see the evidence the military might have that hasn't been shared, but perhaps they don't have anything.

From the military's own accounts - it sounds like their decision to 'make the strike' was pretty shitty and without much knowledge of any collateral damage (to say the least about the target...)

re: the secondary explosion... I'm not convinced (in either direction). Even in the NYT report, they describe that the chance of their being explosives was "possible -to- probable" ... But then they go and seem to show the proof of just 1 explosion, etc.

Sounds like a very fair chance they followed the wrong vehicle, IMO.


Of course, this was done in direct response to the 13 troops (plus 170+ more people) killed at the airport. Which, I hate to say this, I think was more-or-less and inevitable cost of the final moments of the retreat. I absolutely agree that it was NOT entirely unavoidable, It could have been avoided, but that die was cast weeks, if not months before. War is fucking hell. It can always have been done 'better/safer', when we look back at it. We should have been extra restrained in these last few weeks, and I think we mostly were... then the airport attack happened and the military didn't feel like being extra restrained any more, in fact I think they felt like being a little bold.

Honestly, I think there are some key military people in place right now that have made mistakes that they should be made to answer for.
And I would like it for Biden, or who ever Biden plans to endorse in 2024, to be able to come out and be honest about it.

This whole drone thing reminds me of an old article I read years ago about a Pakistani boy's testimony to congress:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... es/354548/

[Smoove_B]

https://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/ ... 0911314946

WASHINGTON (AP) — Officials: Pentagon to say deadly drone strike in Kabul mistakenly killed civilians, not Islamic State extremists.

[Anonymous Bosch]

https://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/ ... 0911314946

WASHINGTON (AP) — Officials: Pentagon to say deadly drone strike in Kabul mistakenly killed civilians, not Islamic State extremists.

Ah well, one can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. Top men clearly worked on it, so no need to hold anyone accountable…

[Max Peck]

So far this doesn't feel like they're trying to cover up the fact that they screwed the pooch.

Afghanistan: US admits Kabul drone strike killed civilians

The US has admitted that a drone strike in Kabul days before its military pullout killed 10 innocent people.

A US Central Command investigation found that an aid worker and nine members of his family, including seven children, died in the 29 August strike.

The youngest child, Sumaya, was just two years old.

The deadly strike happened days after a terror attack at Kabul airport, amid a frenzied evacuation effort following the Taliban's sudden return to power.

It was one of the US military's final acts in Afghanistan, before ending its 20-year operation in the country.

US intelligence had tracked the aid worker's car for eight hours, believing it was linked to IS-K militants - a local branch of the Islamic State (IS) group, US Central Command Gen Kenneth McKenzie said.

The investigation found the man's car had been seen at a compound associated with IS-K, and its movements aligned with other intelligence about the terror group's plans for an attack on Kabul airport.

At one point, a surveillance drone saw men loading what appeared to be explosives into the boot of the car, but it turned out to be containers of water.

Gen McKenzie described the strike as a "tragic mistake", and added that the Taliban had not been involved in the intelligence that led to the strike.

The strike happened as the aid worker - named as Zamairi Akmadhi - pulled into the driveway of his home, 3km (1.8 miles) from the airport.

The explosion set off a secondary blast, which US officials initially said was proof that the car was indeed carrying explosives. However the investigation has found it was most likely caused by a propane tank in the driveway.

Relatives of the victims told the BBC the day after the strike that they had applied to be evacuated to the US, and had been waiting for a phone call telling them to go to the airport.

One of those killed, Ahmad Naser, had been a translator with US forces. Other victims had previously worked for international organisations and held visas allowing them entry to the US.

[Kraken]

So far this doesn't feel like they're trying to cover up the fact that they screwed the pooch.

Afghanistan: US admits Kabul drone strike killed civilians

Ouch. War gets foggier as your assets dwindle. I'm genuinely sorry that we fucked up an Afghan family, but also glad that we're owning it.

[Unagi]

Ah well, one can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. Top men clearly worked on it, so no need to hold anyone accountable…

I mean, after the last 4 years, you don't see a massive difference in this administrations ability to say something went wrong?

I'm not sure what level of accountability you want to see. Are you saying that military people should be dropped, or are you saying that Biden should resign?

At just a very basic level, the very idea of Biden resigning for this (and forgive me for bringing up politics here) and giving the GOP any fuel to regain control of the presidency (and more), is just such a more ugly world. While I admire your high bar for accountability, I don't understand (honestly here) who exactly you feel is accountable (the cartoon implies the president) for this, and what level of payment is required...

For instance, I don't think that Biden is entirely responsible for military mistakes... While it is his call, and he certainly bares a good portion of the responsibility, he also depends on career military people that can fail him, in pretty human ways (i.e. not entirely grossly negligent)... and then they can also be pretty negligent. As long as the proper 'high level' official that was trusted to make these calls is held accountable, I don't view that as Biden 'bucking the problem'.

Now, I will also admit that I see a little more 'bucking' than I like from Biden... but in the New World Bucking Scale... (1-100), where Trump would define 100, I find Biden to be bucking at about a 10 or 20 here, and I'm not finding that level worth flirting with another 100.

[Holman]

Are there any reliable totals on the number of civilians killed in drone strikes?

[Unagi]

Not sure if it's accurate, and they only list 4 countries (I could swear we've done some strikes in Iraq, for example... Oh wait, I see - these are specifically 'outside war zone' strikes), but wiki has some numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_ ... ne_strikes

On July 1, 2016, President Barack Obama signed an executive order requiring annual accounting of civilian and enemy casualties in U.S. drone strikes outside war zones ("Areas Outside of Active Hostilities"), and setting a deadline of May 1 each year for the release of such report. However, soon after taking office, President Donald Trump designated large areas in Yemen and Somalia to be "areas of active hostilities," thus exempting them from disclosure. the Trump administration also ignored the 2017 and 2018 deadlines for an annual accounting, and on March 6, 2019, Trump issued an order revoking the requirement

[Anonymous Bosch]

Ah well, one can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. Top men clearly worked on it, so no need to hold anyone accountable…

I mean, after the last 4 years, you don't see a massive difference in this administrations ability to say something went wrong?

I'm not sure what level of accountability you want to see. Are you saying that military people should be dropped, or are you saying that Biden should resign?

At just a very basic level, the very idea of Biden resigning for this (and forgive me for bringing up politics here) and giving the GOP any fuel to regain control of the presidency (and more), is just such a more ugly world. While I admire your high bar for accountability, I don't understand (honestly here) who exactly you feel is accountable (the cartoon implies the president) for this, and what level of payment is required...

For instance, I don't think that Biden is entirely responsible for military mistakes... While it is his call, and he certainly bares a good portion of the responsibility, he also depends on career military people that can fail him, in pretty human ways (i.e. not entirely grossly negligent)... and then they can also be pretty negligent. As long as the proper 'high level' official that was trusted to make these calls is held accountable, I don't view that as Biden 'bucking the problem'.

Now, I will also admit that I see a little more 'bucking' than I like from Biden... but in the New World Bucking Scale... (1-100), where Trump would define 100, I find Biden to be bucking at about a 10 or 20 here, and I'm not finding that level worth flirting with another 100.

The following op-ed aptly sums it up:

America Needs Accountability on Afghanistan

Cipher Brief Expert Laura E. Thomas is a former CIA case officer and Chief of Base in Afghanistan, who led sensitive CIA programs at CIA Headquarters and abroad in multiple, international assignments. She has subject matter expertise in the intersection of national security and emerging technology and has served over 15 years in various national security and leadership roles. She now serves as the Senior Director of National Security Solutions for quantum computing and sensing company, ColdQuanta.

OPINION — Last week, I lost my composure as I entered the Dulles airport international arrivals area after a transatlantic flight. Scores of Afghan refugees stood between me and the process I had done countless of times – enter the United States after stints abroad, often on CIA assignments. These Afghans were certainly tired, most likely poor, and a huddled mass. Despite the immense challenges many will face integrating into a new society, they represent the fortunate few. Many Afghan allies, including U.S. citizens and U.S. Green Card holders, remain in Afghanistan, along with U.S. Government credibility, if we do not keep pressure on the Taliban to allow them to depart.

Americans should know the truth about what happened in Afghanistan in the last days of the official U.S. presence there. While we cannot treat talking about the problem the same as solving it, this truth-telling is the first step to holding U.S. leadership and the Taliban accountable. Acknowledging what we did wrong does not mean succumbing to it. Accountability matters. Without it, we repeat the same old thinking and actions. With it, we can take the difficult and complex steps forward to address our policy and planning shortcomings, as well as devise short, mid, and long-term strategies to relocate those Afghans who risk being hunted down and executed by the Taliban as a result of their work for the United States.

True leadership demands accountability of others, but most importantly, self-accountability. A former colleague described this lack of accountability succinctly, “a U.S. soldier who loses his or her rifle will face far more consequences than the political and military leaders responsible for planning our withdrawal.” That the U.S. Government was able to retrieve so many Afghans in so few days leading up to the official U.S. withdrawal was both positive and astonishing. But to herald this as a “success” is to whitewash events on the ground, the policy decisions leading up to it, and those left behind.

If no accountability and responsibility is acknowledged as a result of the Pentagon investigation, then it's inconsequential. The point should not be to blame a Reaper drone pilot and throw them under the bus as a convenient scapegoat. We need to see those at the top of the Administration start telling the truth, and accepting their responsibility, for what has been an indisputably calamitous SNAFU in more ways than one. Congress should, in particular, take a hard look at the actions of high-ranking military officers and civilian leaders of both parties who routinely misinformed the American people about the state of the war in Afghanistan. Because some of those individuals -- such as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Mark Milley -- were involved not just in planning the final phase of the withdrawal from Afghanistan, but also the conduct of large parts of the twenty-year war. As a nation, we must learn from what went wrong in Afghanistan, and those responsible for its mistakes must be held accountable. Because the cost of those mistakes has been too high to allow them to happen again.

[Isgrimnur]

CNN

The FBI and Texas Department of Public Safety are assisting a hostage situation at a synagogue in Texas, where authorities say the suspect may be motivated by the desire to free a Pakistani scientist who was convicted of attempting to kill US officers in Afghanistan.

A law enforcement official familiar with the investigation told CNN there were believed to be four hostages, including a rabbi, at Congregation Beth Israel in Colleyville, just outside Fort Worth. Several hours into the standoff, Colleyville Police Sgt. Dara Nelson said one hostage had been released.

There are no injuries at this time, Nelson said.
...
Two law enforcement officials told CNN that investigators believe the hostage taker may have been motivated by a desire to release Aafia Sidiqqui, who is serving an 86-year sentence at a facility in Texas. She was convicted in 2010 on seven charges, including attempted murder and armed assault on US officers in Afghanistan.
...
The FBI interviewed the New York City-based rabbi who spoke to the hostage taker earlier Saturday. The hostage taker, who has no connection with the rabbi, told her that Siddiqi was framed and he wants her released, the officials said.

[malchior]

Aside from the oppression and poverty, good job not terrorizing the population anymore.

https://mobile.twitter.com/clarissaward ... 7026798592

[Blackhawk]

Safer? That's misleading.

[Isgrimnur]

Last night's episode.

[Pyperkub]

What the US couldn't do, the taliban winning is? Governing is hard.

https://time.com/6263906/taliban-afghan ... =205853211

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

[Pyperkub]

Whelp, reverting to a terrorist haven/training state doesn't appear to be taking long...

Less than two years after President Biden withdrew U.S. personnel from Afghanistan, the country has become a significant coordination site for the Islamic State as the terrorist group plans attacks across Europe and Asia, and conducts “aspirational plotting” against the United States, according to a classified Pentagon assessment that portrays the threat as a growing security concern.

The attack planning, detailed in U.S. intelligence findings leaked on the Discord messaging platform and obtained by The Washington Post, reveal specific efforts to target embassies, churches, business centers and the FIFA World Cup soccer tournament, which drew more than 2 million spectators last summer in Qatar. Pentagon officials were aware in December of nine such plots coordinated by ISIS leaders in Afghanistan, and the number rose to 15 by February, says the assessment, which has not been disclosed previously.

[Blackhawk]

Gasp?

[TheMix]

Gasp?

Shall I fetch thine fainting couch, sir?

[Blackhawk]

No, but bring the swooning sofa.

[TheMix]

No, but bring the swooning sofa.

</scurries off...>

[GreenGoo]

Can I be the guy waving a fan and/or book to increase air flow to the general area of the couch? I have a very concerned face, if that helps.

[Blackhawk]

Sure. Now, if I can just get someone to bring me a cool drink. And maybe loosen my corset.

[Max Peck]

I'm not sure that I'd consider Afghanistan to be a haven for IS. The last I heard, which is admittedly quite a while back, they aren't exactly on good terms with the Taliban.