Too soon to start thinking about 2024?

[Kraken]

I sort of lost it in the shuffle but Manchin is saying he is absolutely considering running as President.

NBC News

Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., inched closer Wednesday to confirming that he could run for president.

"I will do anything I can to help my country, and you're saying, 'Does that mean you would consider it?' Absolutely," Manchin said in an interview with NBC's "Meet the Press" moderator Kristen Welker.

"Every American should consider it if they're in a position to help save the country," he added.

Manchin said he first has to explore whether there's an appetite among voters for a moderate candidate like him.

"Moderate". He means can he look moderate enough to cover up the stink of oligarchy all over his person. I don't know how to analyze it because there is significant dissonance to say he is terrified of Trump and then contemplate this action which would...almost certainly elect him.

My youngest nephew is in the tank for RFK Jr. A very large percentage of his peers are "neither of the above" and cannot be persuaded to vote for Biden as a matter of duty.

[Pyperkub]

There's reporting today that RFK Jr. is about to announce an Independent campaign for president.

This applies then:

Measles rises globally amid vaccination crash; WHO and CDC sound the alarm
From 2021 to 2022, measles deaths increased 43 percent.

[Smoove_B]

I wonder what's happening?

A surge of lawmakers calling it quits the past three weeks is on the verge of putting Congress on pace to have more members retire before the next election than in any similar cycle over the past decade. And the implications are huge.

In most cases, retirements deprive their party of a proven fundraiser and vote-getter. And several recent retirements are injecting fresh uncertainty into the tight battles for control of each chamber in 2024. Over the past few weeks, Democrats have lost a three-time winner in ruby-red West Virginia and a handful of swing-district House members who had success in competitive territory.

This month alone, nine members of the House and Senate have said they won’t run for reelection next year. That’s the second-most in any single month going back at least as far as 2011 — and there’s still two weeks left in November. A total of 34 members of Congress have already announced they’re not running again, and that doesn’t count those who plan to quit early or have already resigned.

While I can't speak to all the pending retirements (and coming announcements), I can't help but think the majority of them are doing the math and it's just not financially worth the effort to stay elected and deal with the insanity from peers and the electorate, i.e. they're better off switching to the private / consulting sector and enriching themselves that way.

The problem (I think) is that with dysfunction as the norm, it's going to attract more chaos agents to the overall process - which of course is going to make it worse. I've seen this for decades at a local and regional level in small town / county politics; I'm seeing it now (personally) while serving on various committees. We're not sending our best. Largely the people filling these seats are motivated by self-interest, not service.

[Blackhawk]

While I can't speak to all the pending retirements (and coming announcements), I can't help but think the majority of them are doing the math and it's just not financially worth the effort to stay elected and deal with the insanity from peers and the electorate, i.e. they're better off switching to the private / consulting sector and enriching themselves that way.

I don't follow individual careers/records for most of them, so I don't really know, but I have to wonder if the ones jumping ship are those who were in it for (mostly) altruistic reasons. If some had run in an attempt to make a genuine difference, I could see them wanting out at this point.

Which would be even more catastrophic.

[Isgrimnur]

My guy is 72, and just got redistricted into having 20% of our county removed, and given the entire county north of us. He just announced he's calling it quits. He didn't have a Dem challenger in '22.

[waitingtoconnect]

I sort of lost it in the shuffle but Manchin is saying he is absolutely considering running as President.

NBC News

Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., inched closer Wednesday to confirming that he could run for president.

"I will do anything I can to help my country, and you're saying, 'Does that mean you would consider it?' Absolutely," Manchin said in an interview with NBC's "Meet the Press" moderator Kristen Welker.

"Every American should consider it if they're in a position to help save the country," he added.

Manchin said he first has to explore whether there's an appetite among voters for a moderate candidate like him.

"Moderate". He means can he look moderate enough to cover up the stink of oligarchy all over his person. I don't know how to analyze it because there is significant dissonance to say he is terrified of Trump and then contemplate this action which would...almost certainly elect him.

My youngest nephew is in the tank for RFK Jr. A very large percentage of his peers are "neither of the above" and cannot be persuaded to vote for Biden as a matter of duty.

I barely can. It’s only because candidates other than Biden are so unspeakable and equally old that I would stomach voting for him.

My real fear based in RFKs campaign that Maga or extremists like them know the true path to power is to take over BOTH major parties at least in areas outside of New England and California.

[Kraken]

I don't blame my nephew because I too was an idealist when I was his age. I voted third party/independent in several presidential elections because if enough people would only vote their conscience, we could break the two-party system. 'Course, the stakes were lower back then and the parties looked more alike. I outgrew it...or gave up, if you prefer. A winner-takes-all system is always going to have two parties, except when it only has one.

(Cue Kodos/Kang meme)

[Smoove_B]

Maybe not national news (yet), but the wife of our governor is officially running for Senate in 2024, trying to oust (or replace) Senator Robert "gold bars" Menendez. Why is this newsworthy?

Murphy previously worked as a banker and financier, and she has never held public office. She told the New Jersey Globe on Wednesday, "I don't have D.C. experience – I have New Jersey experience. And I would just say to you that whatever is happening in D.C. isn't working, so more people with D.C. experience is probably not what we need here and now."

...

"She's definitely known for positive initiatives in the state. She definitely has a credible and an important background. But again, obviously no political experience in terms of holding office and so it depends on how voters interpret that nowadays," Koning said.

While I appreciate the effort, I'm not sure electing someone with zero experience to the Senate is the best move. Or maybe it is? Does anything matter anymore? If nothing else it reinforces the idea that the U.S. is really a plutocracy and in a time when cynicism is taking over, I'm not sure this move helps the bigger picture. But I guess that's the point - bigger picture doesn't matter, it's all about enriching the right people.

[malchior]

Luckily since it's NJ, the party bosses effectively choose the Senator for our state. The two biggest party bosses have already said they'll place her on the "line". Murphy is buying them all so I guess I'll just have to live with her being our next Senator. Just another day in our "democracy".

Also, solid abuse of power by Murphy tasking the Department of Health and Human Services to launch a new media campaign "featuring" her as 'first-lady'.

[Unagi]

Also, solid abuse of power by Murphy tasking the Department of Health and Human Services to launch a new media campaign "featuring" her as 'first-lady'.

Yeah, that seems like it should be looked into, but won't, and they couldn't prove anything anyway, etm, etm.

[Smoove_B]

I don't blame my nephew because I too was an idealist when I was his age. I voted third party/independent in several presidential elections because if enough people would only vote their conscience, we could break the two-party system. '

More on RFK Jr.:

Surveys have shown him polling higher than any third-party candidate in 40 years.

The New York Times/Siena swing-state polls showed him getting up to a quarter of the potential vote in some states. He pulled slightly more from Trump than Biden.
A recent Quinnipiac poll had him at a whopping 22% when matched up with Biden and Trump. He pulled from both men in that survey, though Biden maintained a 3-point lead over Trump.
An NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll from last month found him at a lower 16%, but similarly pulling slightly more from Trump.

Note:

Surveys have been all over when it comes to who RFK Jr. pulls from more – President Biden or former President Trump. It's still not entirely clear, but both parties are nervous.

There is undoubtedly the potential, if not the likelihood, for him to take a fairly sizable chunk of the electorate.

[malchior]

Biden now has his lowest approval ratings yet as Democratic base recoils at Biden's handling of Israeli war and other issues.

President Joe Biden’s approval rating has declined to the lowest level of his presidency — 40% — as strong majorities of all voters disapprove of his handling of foreign policy and the Israel-Hamas war, according to the latest national NBC News poll.

What’s more, the poll finds Biden behind former President Donald Trump for the first time in a hypothetical general-election matchup, although the deficit is well within the poll’s margin of error for a contest that’s still more than 11 months away.

The erosion for Biden is most pronounced among Democrats, a majority of whom believe Israel has gone too far in its military action in Gaza, and among voters ages 18 to 34, with a whopping 70% of them disapproving of Biden’s handling of the war.

“I do not support his support of Israel,” said Meg Furey, 40, a Democrat from Austin, Texas.

“Failed promises, student loans, foreign policy in general,” said Democrat Zico Schell, 23, of San Diego, when asked why he disapproves of Biden’s job performance.

“Joe Biden is at a uniquely low point in his presidency, and a significant part of this, especially within the Biden coalition, is due to how Americans are viewing his foreign policy actions,” said Democratic pollster Jeff Horwitt of Hart Research Associates, who conducted this survey with Republican pollster Bill McInturff of Public Opinion Strategies.

...

In another low for the president, just 33% of all voters approve of Biden’s handling of foreign policy, which is down 8 points from September.

That compares with 62% of voters, including 30% of Democrats, who say they disapprove of the president’s handling of foreign policy.

And only 34% of all voters approve of Biden’s handling of the Israel-Hamas war, versus 56% who say they disapprove.

By party, only half of Democratic voters (51%) say they approve of Biden’s handling of the war, compared with majorities of independents (59%) and Republicans (69%) who say they disapprove.

[malchior]

Such a sleaze.

[waitingtoconnect]

I simply cannot understand how Trump is even palatable. I can only conclude he is some sort of figurehead for people's grievances legitimate or imagined.

There is no coherence at all. If you look at the falls of other democracies around the world - the wannabe dictator actually makes sense at least. What does it say about us that so many of us are following this complete and utter lunatic.

Look at Hitlers first speech as chancellor of Germany.

https://www.facinghistory.org/resource- ... io-address

Or Putin's more recent speeches.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/2 ... did-he-say

Yes these men are monsters and bald faced liars but they are coherent. Trump just isn't.

[malchior]

Part of it is the idea that some of our countrymen are legitimately angry. This system is fairly terrible for many. The United States was a pretty dysfunctional country even when it was sort of running right. Policy in place really served the wealthy and impoverished millions and disenfranchised others.

Another part is it is clear that a decent coterie of oligarchs want Trump in power. They clearly think he is better for them. Especially if they get more control over policy. Even though they largely get all the policy they want in the first place. They are investing vast sums of money to build him up as well.

[Holman]

I simply cannot understand how Trump is even palatable. I can only conclude he is some sort of figurehead for people's grievances legitimate or imagined.

There is no coherence at all. If you look at the falls of other democracies around the world - the wannabe dictator actually makes sense at least. What does it say about us that so many of us are following this complete and utter lunatic.

Look at Hitlers first speech as chancellor of Germany.

https://www.facinghistory.org/resource- ... io-address

Or Putin's more recent speeches.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/2 ... did-he-say

Yes these men are monsters and bald faced liars but they are coherent. Trump just isn't.

"The world is scary. Trump is strong. A strong man will protect us."

That's it. That's the appeal. It's no more complex than that, nor does it need to be.

[waitingtoconnect]

Perhaps its the fact the man is obviously a walking sack of insecurity and that has drawn so many like him into his orbit…as such I don’t fear him but rather I really fear for who comes after him - he has opened Pandora’s box for the American Caesar. (Who the founding fathers did not consider a glorious hero.)

Throughout history, ancient Rome has been widely discussed, praised, and emulated. No one has done so more enthusiastically than America’s founding fathers. Like many men they thought about the Romans more than sex. They were enamored with Rome’s unique form of government, which had supposedly preserved liberty for hundreds of years. The Founders lavished praise upon Roman heroes who defended their government from tyranny in the Republic’s turbulent final days.

The American Founders looked to the Roman Empire embodied by Caesar as an example of how their own republic too could be undone by the ambition of one man.

While they may have done well enough to build a system that protects us against ambition did they do enough to build a system that protects us from one man’s personal demons?

[Daehawk]

Starting to wonder if Americans are smart enough to elect a President.

[Blackhawk]

Starting to wonder if Americans are smart enough to elect a President.

*checks watch*

Starting?

[Unagi]

I dismiss the premise entirely.

It takes absolutely no 'brains' to elect a president, as we have seen. The statement makes no sense.

[YellowKing]

I think Americans as a whole have grown up to only see good/bad, black/white. There are no shades of gray. It's in every TV show, every movie, every sport. It's no wonder we're so easy to become polarized. We're trained from the time we're born to pick a side.

[Smoove_B]

It's easier to make money in a system that ultimately comes down to "us vs them". With every passing day I'm seeing more and more how it's always about the money. Get some if you can.

[Blackhawk]

There have been a couple of oddities in my life.

The first is that after about 7 I grew up mostly isolated from society - with few brief exceptions, I had no friends or family around me, no neighbors that I hung out with, was ostracized and isolated at school, and my father didn't really 'raise' me so much as he fed me while I raised myself (poorly.) The second is that I grew up without money, then lived 'normally' for about ten years, then have lived the last 20+ years with little money and no expectations of having money.

Those both seem like negatives, but they have both had a lot of benefits (not that I wouldn't have traded them for a little normality...)

The first one meant that I became an adult without a lot of the assumptions and prejudices of society. I grew up with a mindset that hadn't been defined by societal expectations. The second meant that I've never viewed money as the end-all and be-all. Striving for it has never defined me, as it was something I rarely had any control over, first as a child, and later after I became disabled.

Net result: I have ended up seeing society almost as an outsider. It's a unique perspective that I sometimes (arrogantly?) think gives me a different kind of understanding from most. I'm not saying it's a better understanding, nor do I know if it is worse. It's just different. Here's what it's telling me right now: The things humans do, their motivations, the way they define and prioritize their 'needs', their approaches to solving problems, the way they let others use those motivations to lead them around by the nose to their own obvious detriment... that shit is just nuts.

[coopasonic]

It's almost as if people are the problem... I think I read that somewhere.

[Blackhawk]

It's almost as if people are the problem... I think I read that somewhere.

It's entertaining how often that particular signature seems to conclude a post in an on-target and meaningful manner.

[Smoove_B]

As a GenXer, I'm telling you there is something deeply wrong with our generation:

"Gen X is the most Republican of the generations," said Jean Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State University and author of the book Generations, which examines what drives generational differences.

NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist polling underscores that point: By generation, Biden has the highest disapproval rating from Generation X (62%), compared with the Silent/Greatest Generation (48%), baby boomers (48%) and Generation Z/millennials (50%). Biden also has the highest "strongly disapprove" rating from Gen X (52%), compared with the Silent/Greatest Generation (41%), boomers (39%) and Gen Z/millennials (35%).

What gives?

Twenge says that political leanings of generations can be influenced by the popularity of the president when that generation is in adolescence or young adulthood. For Gen X, that is largely defined by an unpopular Carter and a popular Republican president, Ronald Reagan.

"Ronald Reagan made me feel good about being a U.S. citizen, being American," said Ken Piccolo, 56, a substitute teacher from San Jose, California.

"He made you feel like it was worthwhile and we're a good country and we're doing some good stuff, because just the way he interacted with the state, the world, the country — he just made you feel good about being American."

Maybe it's because I'm on the tail end of being a member of GenX, but I don't have "tingly happy feelings" about Reagan. At best I was ambivalent but as an adult came to understand the awful shitty things he did as President - especially for the environment.

Gen Xers are facing a cascading series of economic concerns: aging parents, raising children, saving for retirement, rising housing costs, higher food and gas prices, all hitting most acutely in middle age.

And somehow the answer for that is the GOP? I keep saying it, but this is the worst goddamn timeline.

[Holman]

It's also that GenX is currently entering the peak era of their careers.

People at this stage tend to think chiefly about their financial situation to the exclusion of most else. They have more money than they've ever had, and eventual retirement is a reality on the horizon. Since GOP branding (regardless of their failed actual policies) is all about letting moneyed people keep their gains, GenX is ripe for the Republican's appeal.

[coopasonic]

So they just turned off the TV after Reagan/Bush Sr? I mean since then we've had Bush Jr and Trump vs Clinton and Obama. Yeah, Biden is not nearly as charismatic as any of them except maybe the Bushes but damn you middle aged people, open your eyes.

[Holman]

I remember being GenX in the 1990s.

After the fall of the USSR there was no sense that we were now conservative or even especially pro-capitalism. The strong feeling was that the Cold War was over but that the future belonged to technology and that it would lead to a Star Trek paradise for everybody. In the meantime, we looked up and realized that being gay was OK and that, while the climate was collapsing, we could probably still fix it by recycling our trash.

What broke that dream was 9/11. After the Towers fell, politics became about fear and protection. We've been wading waist-deep in that shitty mud ever since.

[Blackhawk]

Twenge says that political leanings of generations can be influenced by the popularity of the president when that generation is in adolescence or young adulthood. For Gen X, that is largely defined by an unpopular Carter and a popular Republican president, Ronald Reagan.

Carter? They may want to check their math. The absolute oldest memebers of GenX were only 11 when he took office, 15 when he left. The vast majority were not adolescents, let alone young adults during the Carter administration. Most of them don't even remember him being President beyond a name they heard on the news when their parents were watching it while they were playing. The Presidents that apply to their timeframe are Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush (barely.) For the majority, that was two popular Republicans and a confusing (for a young person) Democratic President.

[LordMortis]

Twenge says that political leanings of generations can be influenced by the popularity of the president when that generation is in adolescence or young adulthood. For Gen X, that is largely defined by an unpopular Carter and a popular Republican president, Ronald Reagan.

Carter? They may want to check their math. The absolute oldest memebers of GenX were only 11 when he took office, 15 when he left. The vast majority were not adolescents, let alone young adults during the Carter administration. Most of them don't even remember him being President beyond a name they heard on the news when their parents were watching it while they were playing. The Presidents that apply to their timeframe are Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush (barely.) For the majority, that was two popular Republicans and a confusing (for a young person) Democratic President.

We remember the smile and he was a peanut farmer. I also remember when he won, I personally, got him confused with Gabe Caplan, being freshly turned six years old in November of '76.

[malchior]

[Alefroth]

Trump could survive that. I'm not so sure about Haley.

[disarm]

Well technically, she wasn't wrong. The government was interfering with people's freedom to own slaves. There's always a way to talk around it ...

[Octavious]

Have we slid that far back that we want to not say slavery is bad? Wow...

[LordMortis]

A large enough subset of our elected officials representing a large enough subset of their electors have.

[malchior]

This is what I was talking about when I said we don't know what she believes. She's being deceptive and trying to virtue signal to the deplorables - it just happened to potentially backfire this time.

Edit: Hilarious! Like it is a trick question. Another person completely unfit to be President.

[Octavious]

Wow saying slavery is bad is a trick question? Man the GOP went downhill so quick it's making my head spin.

[Smoove_B]

It's arguably even worse than that - she's using Trumpian language / phrasing to suggest it was really about freedom from government oppression. In other words, she's arguably trying to tap into the bizarre fertilization these wingnuts have with voting anti-government politicians into power, because freedom.

[Carpet_pissr]

I wouldn't give my name either in the current environment...you would have to be a moron to do so. Although this is Haley, not Trump, so I doubt people are invoking her name to help when they get pulled over by cops.

And FWIW, she was the one primarily responsible for removing the Confederate flag from our state capitol building, so not sure what that says about this recent kerfuffle, if anything.