Kurth wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:13 pm
I wish Pete Buttigiege was actually on the ballot. It's insane to me that he's not.
We still dealing with the aftermath of Obama being elected to two terms. It's beyond sad that America largely isn't ready for a Pete Buttigiege in any capacity.
IMHO, it's more dealing with Gore not being elected and Cheney /Bush pushing Nixon-esque authoritarianism. Muslim hate was already there, but they didn't do much to lean against it, and leveraged for power. Obama did exacerbate some, but the same wing would probably have been even worse had it been Hillary instead of Obama.
AKA the lean into hate and fear for power politics already were rising to supremacy in the GOP, and only the idea that they could control it and use it rather than getting eaten was still present.
FWIW I disagree that Bush "didn't do much to lean against" Muslim hate, and leveraged it for power. Bush really went out of his way to message "Islam is a religion of peace" and that our enemies were Al Qaeda and fundamentalists not Islam more generally.
I think that Obama getting elected to two terms was more central in Trump's rise. That and a growing percentage of minorities is I think what really caused reactionaries to freak out that they were "losing the country for good" and is a large part of why 2016 became the "Flight 93 election" for the far right.
Fair enough, but the GOP while he was President (should we call him the Leader of the GOP at the time? debateable) DEFINITELY leaned into it hard.
And again, replace Obama with Hillary as President and roll that one around in your head as to whether you think we'd have a more sane GOP now, had that happened.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:06 pm
That's why you write in Pete Buttigiege and settle for Trump.
I wish Pete Buttigiege was actually on the ballot. It's insane to me that he's not.
Agree. Biden should have been taken off the ticket long ago (though I don't know how that works...he has to agree? Someone has to convince him not to run? The party decides?).
And he's not going to magically get better and possibly get much much worse by election time. But I was saying he's too decrepit several years ago, so....??
Like it or not, he's the only candidate that has a chance to beat Trump. Buttigieg is bright and can be an effective communicator, but seems to have limited appeal so far. Harris might have slightly more appeal that Buttigeig, but doesn't seem to have proven to be a political asset to the administration. Bernie is old, has limited appeal, and doesn't win in the polling against Trump. Whitmer (Michigan) I don't think is there yet. Newsom would like to be there, but again, he loses in the polling against Trump. Who else is there? Michelle Obama? Taylor Swift? The Democrat bench of candidates is neither overwhelmingly strong nor deep.
I wonder if Biden could be persuaded to choose a new running mate. It doesn't help that Harris is even less popular than he is. A young, dynamic face on the ticket could only help voters overlook/forgive Biden's age...although dumping Harris would entail firing a woman of color, so unless Michelle Obama is interested in the job it can't happen.
On that topic, I really think this Whitehouse/Democratic Party (as they are so good at) kinda blew it with Kamala. I set out to like her, and I still do, but there isn't any single thing I feel she's done that has stood out to me.
Zarathud wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 3:27 pm
Biden has always tripped over his words. It’s why Obama did so well against Joe. But I work with older people who are very smart but make verbal mistakes. It happens to me, too.
A couple days ago I called a cow a horse and Wife will never let me live it down.
My wife grabbed my hand while I was in the car driving taking a work admin update call. Since we’ve been married for 25 years, I immediately responded “I love you, too, honey.” (She gets annoyed when work interferes with our time together).
Male paralegal and my wife both immediately burst out laughing. I’ll be hearing about it for years…
"A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on." -Terry Pratchett, The Truth "The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it." -Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment
Pyperkub wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:09 pm
And again, replace Obama with Hillary as President and roll that one around in your head as to whether you think we'd have a more sane GOP now, had that happened.
It's tough to say. There's also the fact that the GOP has had a gradual slide into ever increasing madness for decades, so it's a little tricky to pinpoint when exactly they fully jumped on the crazy train. It's probably at least a *different* GOP - guessing we would've gotten a greater mix of misogyny than racism. I also think that a Hillary that won in 2008 would probably lose reelection in 2012, if for no other reason than it's really hard for one party to hold the White House for four consecutive terms.
Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:01 pm
A couple days ago I called a cow a horse and Wife will never let me live it down.
How?
If you're interested in this answer, you would enjoy the Dull Men's Club on Facebook. I have found my tribe there. The only post I've made there got 2,000 likes and nearly 1,000 comments. I am truly a dull man, and proud of it.
We were watching All Creatures Great and Small on PBS. I lost track of which episode we were on, as the PBS app isn't real helpful that way, so I watched the recap for clues. A shot with a large animal flickered past and I said "we saw that horse get injured last night." It wasn't the same horse, though. It was a cow. Much hilarity ensued at my expense.
Kraken wrote:If you're interested in this answer, you would enjoy the Dull Men's Club on Facebook. I have found my tribe there. The only post I've made there got 2,000 likes and nearly 1,000 comments. I am truly a dull man, and proud of it.
That group keeps popping up on my FB feed. I guess they know a potential member when they see him.
Perhaps the best hope for Democracy is if Orange Florida Man attacks Taylor Swift. That would mobilize young voters like nobody's business. Probably all it would take is handing out some SWIFTIES FOR BIDEN posters at an OFM rally.
Well I dropped off my Republican primary ballot today. Yes: I voted for Republicans.
Besides voting for Haley in hopes of defeating trump, I chose non-MAGA candidates in the two other competitive races. Both have an old-school establishment Republican running against a MAGAt.
Probably won't make any difference since there's no movement among independent Massholes to take R ballots. But the D primary is a snoozefest with almost no competitive matches and little daylight between incumbents and challengers in the few that are.
My wife now has to pull a Republican ballot as she has been a poll worker not in a Ward organization for long enough. She gets to vote against Trump twice.
She also gets to use her voice of compelling on non-family members while making sure no MAGA saboteur tries to embed themselves into the Chicago election.
"A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on." -Terry Pratchett, The Truth "The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it." -Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment
Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:37 pm
Well I dropped off my Republican primary ballot today. Yes: I voted for Republicans.
Besides voting for Haley in hopes of defeating trump, I chose non-MAGA candidates in the two other competitive races. Both have an old-school establishment Republican running against a MAGAt.
Probably won't make any difference since there's no movement among independent Massholes to take R ballots. But the D primary is a snoozefest with almost no competitive matches and little daylight between incumbents and challengers in the few that are.
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
I’m looking forward to my turn to vote in my states primary as long as the race goes that far.
I do despair though- trump v Haley? Trump v Biden?
I’m forced to vote for terrible candidates to save democracy who are so bad their behaviour makes me in my darkest moments consider voting for trump.
I really don’t like the democrats. I think they are coasting on the fact that for real thinking Americans they are the only real choice mostly down to the fact that they live in an echo chamber the same way Maga do.
Personally I’d like to see more contestable house seats like we saw in the past and ideally a primary system where all citizens can vote for the candidates put up by a major party. So we can all vote for the Republican candidates in the primary and then the same for the democrats. That would stop the rabid base from giving us a trump
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:35 pm
There are orders of magnitude between the suckage.
Orders. Of. Magnitude.
1000%. I also totally wish we could reform the primary process. The crazy levels of gerrymandering mean closed primaries will always push towards the extreme.
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:35 pm
There are orders of magnitude between the suckage.
Orders. Of. Magnitude.
I don’t see the same level of orders of magnitude between Haley and Trump as I do between Trump and Biden. But Haley deserves to be candidate over trump.
Haley in many ways until it became a 1-1 was like desantis just a trump parrot. Her views on slavery, the civil war and her openness to pardon trump is not something I support.
I don’t like Biden but compared to the hot mess the republicans are in he is the only choice. Hutchinson and Christie were the only two in this that I thought were credible but Hutchinson is very far right and Christie is suspect after his scandals in New Jersey.
Last edited by waitingtoconnect on Wed Feb 14, 2024 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It'd be nice to have more of a parliament style. A three or more party system where the president's power is de-emphasized, as would be the worst party. This least of two bads needs to go. The Daily show featured in EBG really nails where we are at. And we need to stay on target leading up to the election and stay on target after the election is done. My problem is that I've run out of energy and patience. I'm no longer capable of having conversations that hopefully lead to something better with people who clearly aren't interested in anything but being heard as if being heard is being justified.
Zarathud wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 3:27 pm
Biden has always tripped over his words. It’s why Obama did so well against Joe. But I work with older people who are very smart but make verbal mistakes. It happens to me, too.
A couple days ago I called a cow a horse and Wife will never let me live it down.
I routinely mix up my dog's and my younger son's names in conversation. I'm 55.
Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:24 pm
On that topic, I really think this Whitehouse/Democratic Party (as they are so good at) kinda blew it with Kamala. I set out to like her, and I still do, but there isn't any single thing I feel she's done that has stood out to me.
I expected her to be way more 'in my face'.
Think back to every presidential administration of your lifetime. How many Vice Presidents have ever gained prominence for anything but a gaffe or a scandal? Avoiding that is an achievement in itself. VPs are structurally invisible.
(The exceptions are when the VP becomes the next candidate-apparent, but Harris isn't there yet. How much were you thinking about GHWB in 1984 or Al Gore in 1996? Or, indeed, Joe Biden in 2012?)
Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:24 pm
On that topic, I really think this Whitehouse/Democratic Party (as they are so good at) kinda blew it with Kamala. I set out to like her, and I still do, but there isn't any single thing I feel she's done that has stood out to me.
I expected her to be way more 'in my face'.
Think back to every presidential administration of your lifetime. How many Vice Presidents have ever gained prominence for anything but a gaffe or a scandal? Avoiding that is an achievement in itself. VPs are structurally invisible.
Holman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:27 pm
VPs are structurally invisible.
She been better at being invisible than most except for the fact that conservatives despise her with a fiery hatred of a thousand suns and they don't ever really say why except for when she spent some time at the border and they hated her specifically for that.
If they can't say why they hate her but they hate her that much it sort of gives me the warm and fuzzies. I'm not proud of this but I am passive aggressive.
waitingtoconnect wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 6:31 pm
I don’t like Biden but compared to the hot mess the republicans are in he is the only choice. Hutchinson and Christie were the only two in this that I thought were credible but Hutchinson is very far right and Christie is suspect after his scandals in New Jersey.
The last GOP hopeful I would have considered voting for was Kasich (but still probably wouldn't have... though against Clinton's anointment concurrent with not coming to a full realization of what they GOP was becoming, it would have been a thinker for me; with Kasich's abortion stance and McConnell seizing more and more power and then not seating a new SC justice) and the GOP just shit on him. Then, as he was the most effective at standing against becoming the part of TFG, they shit on him more.
Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:24 pm
On that topic, I really think this Whitehouse/Democratic Party (as they are so good at) kinda blew it with Kamala. I set out to like her, and I still do, but there isn't any single thing I feel she's done that has stood out to me.
I expected her to be way more 'in my face'.
Think back to every presidential administration of your lifetime. How many Vice Presidents have ever gained prominence for anything but a gaffe or a scandal? Avoiding that is an achievement in itself. VPs are structurally invisible.
Dick Cheney would like a word.
Proves my point. Nobody saw VP Dick Cheney as a sure and reliable successor to GWB. He was always a liability because he only ever got into the news as an asshole and a grifter.
LordMortis wrote:She been better at being invisible than most except for the fact that conservatives despise her with a fiery hatred of a thousand suns and they don't ever really say why except for when she spent some time at the border and they hated her specifically for that.
Yeah I'm puzzled why conservatives would hate an African-American female in power. Boggles the mind.
Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:24 pm
On that topic, I really think this Whitehouse/Democratic Party (as they are so good at) kinda blew it with Kamala. I set out to like her, and I still do, but there isn't any single thing I feel she's done that has stood out to me.
I expected her to be way more 'in my face'.
Think back to every presidential administration of your lifetime. How many Vice Presidents have ever gained prominence for anything but a gaffe or a scandal? Avoiding that is an achievement in itself. VPs are structurally invisible.
Dick Cheney would like a word.
Proves my point. Nobody saw VP Dick Cheney as a sure and reliable successor to GWB. He was always a liability because he only ever got into the news as an asshole and a grifter.
Yeah, I guess from the outside, you’re right. But he was arguably the most powerful veep in recent history due to supposedly essentially running things for Bush.
Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:24 pm
On that topic, I really think this Whitehouse/Democratic Party (as they are so good at) kinda blew it with Kamala. I set out to like her, and I still do, but there isn't any single thing I feel she's done that has stood out to me.
I expected her to be way more 'in my face'.
Think back to every presidential administration of your lifetime. How many Vice Presidents have ever gained prominence for anything but a gaffe or a scandal? Avoiding that is an achievement in itself. VPs are structurally invisible.
Dick Cheney would like a word.
Proves my point. Nobody saw VP Dick Cheney as a sure and reliable successor to GWB. He was always a liability because he only ever got into the news as an asshole and a grifter.
Yeah, I guess from the outside, you’re right. But he was arguably the most powerful veep in recent history due to supposedly essentially running things for Bush.
I also think that some portion of Cheney's reputation comes from everybody viewing W. Bush as an idiot. Like "obviously that guy's not running the country...maybe it's secretly Cheney?"
Along these lines, I listened to yesterday's episode of The Daily. The focus was on Biden's age. It accurately and objectively covered Biden's increasing memory lapses and age-related issues, but it really bugged me in a couple ways:
(1) The episode broke Biden's age-related issues into two distinct categories: Ones that matter and ones that don't. The reporting essentially was that, both in public and in private, Biden is increasingly exhibiting age-related memory lapses and other issues, but these all fall into the "don't matter" bucket because they don't impact Biden's decision making in critical moments. The reporting was that everyone who knows Biden well knows that he remains sharp, engaged and capable of making decisions and doing the work of POTUS (although it also took pains to note that this is the consensus today but that many also have concerns for where Biden will be over the next 1-5 years).
My problem with this is that it glosses over what I think is one of the most important responsibilities (maybe the most) of POTUS: The President needs to lead the nation, and he or she does that by being an effective and impactful figurehead. POTUS needs to project strength and competence in a way that a well-meaning, elderly man with a shuffling and unstable gait and a failing memory does not.
I'm honestly not worried about what decisions are going to be made under a second Biden administration. I'm confident that administration will be filled with sufficiently qualified appointees who generally have the experience and expertise to move the country in the right direction, even if Biden's decision-making begins to falter. What I am concerned about is installing a leader that many will view as projecting the opposite of strength and competence.
(2) The Daily referenced this as a binary choice between Old Trump and Older Biden. The reporting suggested that there was never any option other than Biden for the Democrats. I could never really understand that line of thinking dating back to Biden's decision to run, and as we get closer and closer to Trump v. Biden Part II, I understand it even less. I cannot fathom how the Democratic party is so fucked up that the best candidate it could run against Trump is Joe Biden in his current state.
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
They needed to talk about Biden planning for only 1 term from the very beginning (He hinted at that in his bid for presidency) - but they didn't. As soon as they didn't - there was no chance the Democratic party would pivot away from him as the incumbent. So, this is one thing that is squarely on Biden (I assume). It's that he didn't PUSH/INSIST that he was here for one term from the beginning.
I imagine if there was any 'think tank' behind this decision, it was decided it wasn't worth risking the historical power of the incumbency.
Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2024 2:42 pm
They needed to talk about Biden planning for only 1 term from the very beginning (He hinted at that in his bid for presidency) - but they didn't. As soon as they didn't - there was no chance the Democratic party would pivot away from him as the incumbent. So, this is one thing that is squarely on Biden (I assume). It's that he didn't PUSH/INSIST that he was here for one term from the beginning.
Good point. I agree.
Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2024 2:42 pm
I imagine if there was any 'think tank' behind this decision, it was decided it wasn't worth risking the historical power of the incumbency.
If there was any 'think tank' behind this decision, they should be fired!
Just 'cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there -- Radiohead
Do you believe me? Do you trust me? Do you like me? 😳
