Too soon to start thinking about 2024?

[Carpet_pissr]

She’s toast:

“Billionaire Koch brothers-backed network stops Nikki Haley spending”

She said she would keep going even if she lost SC (and boy, did she), but that was assuming she continued to get backer money.

[coopasonic]

There is a benefit to name recognition, and Biden has that. He’s still needed to stop Trump, who has only become worse over the past 4 years.

After the election, Democrats will be vying to rise to become Biden’s successor — Trump will run again in 2028 if he’s not dead or convicted or broke.

Fixed that for you.

[Jaymann]

There is a benefit to name recognition, and Biden has that. He’s still needed to stop Trump, who has only become worse over the past 4 years.

After the election, Democrats will be vying to rise to become Biden’s successor — Trump will run again in 2028 if he’s not dead or convicted or broke.

Fixed that for you.

How can you be so sure they won't try to elect his corpse?

[Unagi]

If Democrats run a moderate younger white male candidate that are not known to be racist or have any scandal, do you think he'll not be able to win against Trump? Are Biden's supporters going to stay home or vote for Trump?

question - In this hypothetical is the new candidate in opposition to Biden or has Biden stepped aside?

2nd question: How did the Democrats select this candidate? Backroom deal? or through a nomination-like process?

I don't think that matter. If people are voting for Biden even if they think he is too old or don't like his policy because Trump is worse. Why they're not going to vote for younger and better version of Biden?

What do you mean it doesn't matter.


Try and answer the question, if you think you can just wave away a discussion to your point -then fine, stop bringing it up then.

[Victoria Raverna]

If Democrats run a moderate younger white male candidate that are not known to be racist or have any scandal, do you think he'll not be able to win against Trump? Are Biden's supporters going to stay home or vote for Trump?

question - In this hypothetical is the new candidate in opposition to Biden or has Biden stepped aside?

2nd question: How did the Democrats select this candidate? Backroom deal? or through a nomination-like process?

I don't think that matter. If people are voting for Biden even if they think he is too old or don't like his policy because Trump is worse. Why they're not going to vote for younger and better version of Biden?

What do you mean it doesn't matter.


Try and answer the question, if you think you can just wave away a discussion to your point -then fine, stop bringing it up then.

It doesn't matter because no matter which path the candidate was from, it doesn't change the fact that if you don't vote for the candidate, you're helping Trump win. So do you think there are a lot of Biden supporters that are going to let Trump win if Biden isn't the candidate?

[gbasden]

In a reasonable world, people would see that not electing a fascist narcissist would be the number one priority. Unfortunately, we live in an incredibly stupid world, and many people choose their vote, or choose not to vote, for the dumbest of reasons. Having another Democrat run against Biden at this point simply means vote splitting between the two candidates, guaranteeing Trump the win. Biden would have to quit the race, which he shows no inclination of doing.

[YellowKing]

Would Americans vote for a "younger Biden" if they were the candidate running against Trump? Sure, anyone that was going to vote for Biden will probably vote for this new person rather than vote for Trump. There's a good chance the new candidate might pull in independents or undecideds who don't like Biden.

But it's purely a hypothetical that's not occurring, so I don't know what the point of the question is. If the idea is to somehow validate that people would rather have a different candidate, then that's already a known. Nobody is happy with this rematch, but we can't do a damn thing about it.

[Victoria Raverna]

The point is if enough people tell Biden they want a younger Biden, maybe Biden will step aside and endorse a younger Biden.

[stessier]

The point is if enough people tell Biden they want a younger Biden, maybe Biden will step aside and endorse a younger Biden.

No he wouldn't. President's have egos.

[Unagi]

If Democrats run a moderate younger white male candidate that are not known to be racist or have any scandal, do you think he'll not be able to win against Trump? Are Biden's supporters going to stay home or vote for Trump?

question - In this hypothetical is the new candidate in opposition to Biden or has Biden stepped aside?

2nd question: How did the Democrats select this candidate? Backroom deal? or through a nomination-like process?

I don't think that matter. If people are voting for Biden even if they think he is too old or don't like his policy because Trump is worse. Why they're not going to vote for younger and better version of Biden?

What do you mean it doesn't matter.


Try and answer the question, if you think you can just wave away a discussion to your point -then fine, stop bringing it up then.

It doesn't matter because no matter which path the candidate was from, it doesn't change the fact that if you don't vote for the candidate, you're helping Trump win. So do you think there are a lot of Biden supporters that are going to let Trump win if Biden isn't the candidate?

No.

And so what.
What point on earth are you trying to make.

Honestly. What are you saying?

You wish Biden wasn’t the candidate running against Trump.

We get it.

The suggestions you make to seemingly argue political strategy complete ignore reality and so no one is even able to engage you in conversation.

[Unagi]

The point is if enough people tell Biden they want a younger Biden, maybe Biden will step aside and endorse a younger Biden.

I’m quite sure he has heard the news that he is “too old”, but he thinks he’s the best shot.

Do you think the Democratic Party should just pick a young person from a hat and tell Biden to step down for ‘hat winner’ , or do you think the Democratic Party should let the public pick ?

Do you think the Democratic Party can suddenly become a single voice and anoint one young person : Next ?

[YellowKing]

The point is if enough people tell Biden they want a younger Biden

By what mechanism do we tell him? That's the crux of the issue. Send him an email? Hope he reads the message board? There's no avenue to do what you're suggesting, and no guarantee he'd listen even if there were.

The candidates are essentially decided long before the American people get involved. They're decided through money, power, and in the case of a sitting President running for re-election, historical precedent.

You're asking us to somehow change the outcome of a game that's already over, and we never even had a seat at the table.

[ImLawBoy]

Focusing on whether the Ds can find someone better to run against Trump than Biden is missing the point. They aren't going to find someone better because they're not looking. Further, they're not going to look. Barring death or debilitating stroke or something along those lines, the die is cast. Biden is the nominee, full stop. No third party will come to the rescue. No darkhorse D candidate. It's Biden vs. Trump. That's simply reality.

Continuing to focus on his age or whether the Ds can find someone else isn't helpful or productive to getting him reelected.

[Unagi]

Focusing on whether the Ds can find someone better to run against Trump than Biden is missing the point. They aren't going to find someone better because they're not looking. Further, they're not going to look. Barring death or debilitating stroke or something along those lines, the die is cast. Biden is the nominee, full stop. No third party will come to the rescue. No darkhorse D candidate. It's Biden vs. Trump. That's simply reality.

Continuing to focus on his age or whether the Ds can find someone else isn't helpful or productive to getting him reelected.

Bingo!
Who wrote that!? Gifted visionary, I tell ya.

[Unagi]

Also

They needed to talk about Biden planning for only 1 term from the very beginning - but they didn't. As soon as they didn't - there was no chance the Democratic party would pivot away from him as the incumbent.

[Kurth]

The point is if enough people tell Biden they want a younger Biden, maybe Biden will step aside and endorse a younger Biden.

I’m quite sure he has heard the news that he is “too old”, but he thinks he’s the best shot.

Do you think the Democratic Party should just pick a young person from a hat and tell Biden to step down for ‘hat winner’ , or do you think the Democratic Party should let the public pick ?

Do you think the Democratic Party can suddenly become a single voice and anoint one young person : Next ?

Also worth pointing out that the Democratic Party is not exactly bursting at the seams with young, talented, up-and-comers likely to have a broad-based appeal. It's not just that Biden is too old and is a bad candidate. There are no obvious replacements, even if he was willing to step down, and this likely furthers his conviction (and that of other party leaders) that he's the best shot. Vicious circle.

[Alefroth]

Focusing on whether the Ds can find someone better to run against Trump than Biden is missing the point. They aren't going to find someone better because they're not looking. Further, they're not going to look. Barring death or debilitating stroke or something along those lines, the die is cast. Biden is the nominee, full stop. No third party will come to the rescue. No darkhorse D candidate. It's Biden vs. Trump. That's simply reality.

Continuing to focus on his age or whether the Ds can find someone else isn't helpful or productive to getting him reelected.

Bingo!
Who wrote that!? Gifted visionary, I tell ya.

Wisdom from the ages.

[Carpet_pissr]

The point is if enough people tell Biden they want a younger Biden, maybe Biden will step aside and endorse a younger Biden.

I’m quite sure he has heard the news that he is “too old”, but he thinks he’s the best shot.

Do you think the Democratic Party should just pick a young person from a hat and tell Biden to step down for ‘hat winner’ , or do you think the Democratic Party should let the public pick ?

Do you think the Democratic Party can suddenly become a single voice and anoint one young person : Next ?

Also worth pointing out that the Democratic Party is not exactly bursting at the seams with young, talented, up-and-comers likely to have a broad-based appeal. It's not just that Biden is too old and is a bad candidate. There are no obvious replacements, even if he was willing to step down, and this likely furthers his conviction (and that of other party leaders) that he's the best shot. Vicious circle.

Mayor Pete says 'hold my beer'

[Holman]

Also worth pointing out that the Democratic Party is not exactly bursting at the seams with young, talented, up-and-comers likely to have a broad-based appeal. It's not just that Biden is too old and is a bad candidate. There are no obvious replacements, even if he was willing to step down, and this likely furthers his conviction (and that of other party leaders) that he's the best shot. Vicious circle.

Harris (VP), Newsom (CA), Whitmer (MI), Shapiro (PA), Klobuchar (MN), and Booker (NJ) are the young and obvious candidates for a 2028 primary. Plus there are several rising stars we haven't yet heard about but who could break out nationally.

The Dems have a deep bench. The GOP has a Trump loyalty problem.

[Kraken]

Also worth pointing out that the Democratic Party is not exactly bursting at the seams with young, talented, up-and-comers likely to have a broad-based appeal. It's not just that Biden is too old and is a bad candidate. There are no obvious replacements, even if he was willing to step down, and this likely furthers his conviction (and that of other party leaders) that he's the best shot. Vicious circle.

Harris (VP), Newsom (CA), Whitmer (MI), Shapiro (PA), Klobuchar (MN), and Booker (NJ) are the young and obvious candidates for a 2028 primary. Plus there are several rising stars we haven't yet heard about but who could break out nationally.

The Dems have a deep bench. The GOP has a Trump loyalty problem.

Sure, and we need a competitive primary to sort them out. There is no Biden alternative waiting in the wings because there was no primary. Well, there is, but Biden's running against "none of the above." An Arab American group in Michigan is pushing for Uncommitted. If Uncommitted breaks into double digits, Democrats will have a serious problem.

[YellowKing]

If Uncommitted breaks into double digits, Democrats will have a serious problem.

Well...maybe. Voting uncommitted in the primaries is designed to spur Biden into action. It doesn't necessarily mean they're just going to hand the election to Trump in November. At least I hope not. That would not only be cutting off their nose to spite their face, it would mean throwing the entire country under the bus because of something going on halfway around the world that doesn't directly impact the vast majority of Americans.

[Grifman]

If Uncommitted breaks into double digits, Democrats will have a serious problem.

Well...maybe. Voting uncommitted in the primaries is designed to spur Biden into action. It doesn't necessarily mean they're just going to hand the election to Trump in November. At least I hope not. That would not only be cutting off their nose to spite their face, it would mean throwing the entire country under the bus because of something going on halfway around the world that doesn't directly impact the vast majority of Americans.

Obama got 89% of the vote the second time he ran, uncommitted got 11%, so double digits are not necessarily a problem. However, Biden only got 80%, with the uncommitted coming in at 14%, so the uncommitted campaign can be assumed to have some effect.

And yes, there are some, specifically Arab American who have said that they will sit out the vote, even if it means a Trump win. Yes, that is insane, but that is where we are.

[Alefroth]

Also worth pointing out that the Democratic Party is not exactly bursting at the seams with young, talented, up-and-comers likely to have a broad-based appeal. It's not just that Biden is too old and is a bad candidate. There are no obvious replacements, even if he was willing to step down, and this likely furthers his conviction (and that of other party leaders) that he's the best shot. Vicious circle.

Harris (VP), Newsom (CA), Whitmer (MI), Shapiro (PA), Klobuchar (MN), and Booker (NJ) are the young and obvious candidates for a 2028 primary. Plus there are several rising stars we haven't yet heard about but who could break out nationally.

The Dems have a deep bench. The GOP has a Trump loyalty problem.

Sure, and we need a competitive primary to sort them out. There is no Biden alternative waiting in the wings because there was no primary. Well, there is, but Biden's running against "none of the above." An Arab American group in Michigan is pushing for Uncommitted. If Uncommitted breaks into double digits, Democrats will have a serious problem.

Doesn't uncommitted typically break double digits in Michigan?

edit: It may yet break triple digits.

[Alefroth]

Trump is doing better in MI than he did in SC.

[LordMortis]

Trump is doing better in MI than he did in SC.

Not a surprise.

[Kraken]

Doesn't uncommitted typically break double digits in Michigan?

edit: It may yet break triple digits.

I meant percentage-wise. Uncommitted typically gets around 20k votes; IDK what % that is, but it must be quite low.

[Kurth]

Also worth pointing out that the Democratic Party is not exactly bursting at the seams with young, talented, up-and-comers likely to have a broad-based appeal. It's not just that Biden is too old and is a bad candidate. There are no obvious replacements, even if he was willing to step down, and this likely furthers his conviction (and that of other party leaders) that he's the best shot. Vicious circle.

Harris (VP), Newsom (CA), Whitmer (MI), Shapiro (PA), Klobuchar (MN), and Booker (NJ) are the young and obvious candidates for a 2028 primary. Plus there are several rising stars we haven't yet heard about but who could break out nationally.

The Dems have a deep bench. The GOP has a Trump loyalty problem.

Sure, and we need a competitive primary to sort them out. There is no Biden alternative waiting in the wings because there was no primary. Well, there is, but Biden's running against "none of the above." An Arab American group in Michigan is pushing for Uncommitted. If Uncommitted breaks into double digits, Democrats will have a serious problem.

I am a big fan of Pete Buttigieg and would have much preferred him to Biden, but the others? Harris has pretty much been MIA the past four years. Klobuchar flamed out in the last primary and hasn’t done much to burnish her credentials since then. Booker had his moment but he’s not even all that popular in NJ right now.

I don’t know much about Whitmer (other than the MAGAts tried to kidnap her). All I know about Shapiro is that he decisively beat an absolute dog of a candidate in Mastriano. Newsom has potential, but to a certain extent as California goes, so goes Gavin Newsom, and California doesn’t see to be doing so great these days (or so say the folks I meet that are part of the exodus from there to Oregon).

In the end, there may well be talent on the Democratic bench, but as Kraken points out, in foreclosing a primary, the party machinery has done much to prevent that talent from blossoming, at least on the national stage.

[Alefroth]

Doesn't uncommitted typically break double digits in Michigan?

edit: It may yet break triple digits.

I meant percentage-wise. Uncommitted typically gets around 20k votes; IDK what % that is, but it must be quite low.

Ah. Well they did break double digits then, about 13% with 101K votes.

[El Guapo]

Doesn't uncommitted typically break double digits in Michigan?

edit: It may yet break triple digits.

I meant percentage-wise. Uncommitted typically gets around 20k votes; IDK what % that is, but it must be quite low.

Ah. Well they did break double digits then, about 13% with 101K votes.

Apparently in 2012 "uncommitted" got IIRC 10.3% of the vote vs. Obama. So it's higher, but is that increase really material? Unclear.

[El Guapo]

Also worth pointing out that the Democratic Party is not exactly bursting at the seams with young, talented, up-and-comers likely to have a broad-based appeal. It's not just that Biden is too old and is a bad candidate. There are no obvious replacements, even if he was willing to step down, and this likely furthers his conviction (and that of other party leaders) that he's the best shot. Vicious circle.

Harris (VP), Newsom (CA), Whitmer (MI), Shapiro (PA), Klobuchar (MN), and Booker (NJ) are the young and obvious candidates for a 2028 primary. Plus there are several rising stars we haven't yet heard about but who could break out nationally.

The Dems have a deep bench. The GOP has a Trump loyalty problem.

Sure, and we need a competitive primary to sort them out. There is no Biden alternative waiting in the wings because there was no primary. Well, there is, but Biden's running against "none of the above." An Arab American group in Michigan is pushing for Uncommitted. If Uncommitted breaks into double digits, Democrats will have a serious problem.

I am a big fan of Pete Buttigieg and would have much preferred him to Biden, but the others? Harris has pretty much been MIA the past four years. Klobuchar flamed out in the last primary and hasn’t done much to burnish her credentials since then. Booker had his moment but he’s not even all that popular in NJ right now.

I don’t know much about Whitmer (other than the MAGAts tried to kidnap her). All I know about Shapiro is that he decisively beat an absolute dog of a candidate in Mastriano. Newsom has potential, but to a certain extent as California goes, so goes Gavin Newsom, and California doesn’t see to be doing so great these days (or so say the folks I meet that are part of the exodus from there to Oregon).

In the end, there may well be talent on the Democratic bench, but as Kraken points out, in foreclosing a primary, the party machinery has done much to prevent that talent from blossoming, at least on the national stage.

My main worries regarding the possibility that Biden might not run were always that we'd wind up with a bitter contested primary with hurt feelings and months airing out complaints about the Biden administration, to wind up with a non-incumbent candidate who might or might not be stronger than Biden against Trump.

[Kurth]

Also worth pointing out that the Democratic Party is not exactly bursting at the seams with young, talented, up-and-comers likely to have a broad-based appeal. It's not just that Biden is too old and is a bad candidate. There are no obvious replacements, even if he was willing to step down, and this likely furthers his conviction (and that of other party leaders) that he's the best shot. Vicious circle.

Harris (VP), Newsom (CA), Whitmer (MI), Shapiro (PA), Klobuchar (MN), and Booker (NJ) are the young and obvious candidates for a 2028 primary. Plus there are several rising stars we haven't yet heard about but who could break out nationally.

The Dems have a deep bench. The GOP has a Trump loyalty problem.

Sure, and we need a competitive primary to sort them out. There is no Biden alternative waiting in the wings because there was no primary. Well, there is, but Biden's running against "none of the above." An Arab American group in Michigan is pushing for Uncommitted. If Uncommitted breaks into double digits, Democrats will have a serious problem.

I am a big fan of Pete Buttigieg and would have much preferred him to Biden, but the others? Harris has pretty much been MIA the past four years. Klobuchar flamed out in the last primary and hasn’t done much to burnish her credentials since then. Booker had his moment but he’s not even all that popular in NJ right now.

I don’t know much about Whitmer (other than the MAGAts tried to kidnap her). All I know about Shapiro is that he decisively beat an absolute dog of a candidate in Mastriano. Newsom has potential, but to a certain extent as California goes, so goes Gavin Newsom, and California doesn’t see to be doing so great these days (or so say the folks I meet that are part of the exodus from there to Oregon).

In the end, there may well be talent on the Democratic bench, but as Kraken points out, in foreclosing a primary, the party machinery has done much to prevent that talent from blossoming, at least on the national stage.

My main worries regarding the possibility that Biden might not run were always that we'd wind up with a bitter contested primary with hurt feelings and months airing out complaints about the Biden administration, to wind up with a non-incumbent candidate who might or might not be stronger than Biden against Trump.

I think you had good reason to worry about that, and I don’t discount that risk. I just think it’s probably the lesser of two evils. I’m deeply concerned about Biden’s electability.

But at least he’s running against an even more unelectable candidate in Trump.

Great system we have here!

[Alefroth]

Doesn't uncommitted typically break double digits in Michigan?

edit: It may yet break triple digits.

I meant percentage-wise. Uncommitted typically gets around 20k votes; IDK what % that is, but it must be quite low.

Ah. Well they did break double digits then, about 13% with 101K votes.

Apparently in 2012 "uncommitted" got IIRC 10.3% of the vote vs. Obama. So it's higher, but is that increase really material? Unclear.

Not very, in my opinion, considering there was a concerted uncommitted effort.

[Grifman]

Doesn't uncommitted typically break double digits in Michigan?

edit: It may yet break triple digits.

I meant percentage-wise. Uncommitted typically gets around 20k votes; IDK what % that is, but it must be quite low.

Ah. Well they did break double digits then, about 13% with 101K votes.

Apparently in 2012 "uncommitted" got IIRC 10.3% of the vote vs. Obama. So it's higher, but is that increase really material? Unclear.

Given the narrow margin by which Biden won Michigan in 2020, and the fact that he is currently trailing Trump in the polls in Michigan, I'd say it is highly significant.

[Jaymann]

I'm not so sure a protest vote in a meaningless election necessarily means those same people will vote for a sociopath dick-tater come November.

[Moliere]

I am a big fan of Pete Buttigieg

Why? What has he accomplished as the mayor of a middling sized city or as Transportation Secretary that impresses you?

I don’t know much about Whitmer (other than the MAGAts tried to kidnap her).

I went to a John Birch Society meeting just to see if I could spot the Feds.

For the past two decades, the FBI and federal prosecutors have brought case after case against would-be radicals who were ratted out by informants. They have been enormously successful in obtaining convictions in these cases, despite persistent criticisms that the FBI uses unscrupulous informants, conjures up the very plots it disrupts, and entraps defendants who have little to no ability to actually carry out a terror attack.

It looked like the case against the Michigan militia members who allegedly plotted to kidnap Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer in October 2020 was going to be another data point in that trend: an extremist group riddled with FBI informants set up to take the fall for all their big talk. An unusual thing happened, though. The jury didn't buy it. When the verdicts were read a year and a half later in March, two of the militia members were acquitted, and the jury deadlocked on the other two.

In June, a federal judge ordered the two remaining defendants to stand again for a retrial, but the collapse of the prosecution of the Whitmer defendants is one of the biggest public embarrassments for the FBI's counterterrorism and informant programs since 9/11. The Whitmer case is more than just a high-profile embarrassment. It's a window into the FBI's decadeslong strategy, born of powers granted to fight the war on terror, of pursuing criminal investigations against hypothetical criminal acts that may never be committed based on evidence that amounts to little more than fringe political or ideological speech.

[Holman]

I am a big fan of Pete Buttigieg

Why? What has he accomplished as the mayor of a middling sized city or as Transportation Secretary that impresses you?

He is an extraordinary communicator, able to deftly sidestep Fox News lines of bullshit and deliver a substantial message even in enemy media territory. He's eloquent, calm under pressure, and knows his facts backwards and forwards.

This is a hugely important political skill. Buttigieg might be just behind Obama in having it.

[waitingtoconnect]

Also worth pointing out that the Democratic Party is not exactly bursting at the seams with young, talented, up-and-comers likely to have a broad-based appeal. It's not just that Biden is too old and is a bad candidate. There are no obvious replacements, even if he was willing to step down, and this likely furthers his conviction (and that of other party leaders) that he's the best shot. Vicious circle.

Harris (VP), Newsom (CA), Whitmer (MI), Shapiro (PA), Klobuchar (MN), and Booker (NJ) are the young and obvious candidates for a 2028 primary. Plus there are several rising stars we haven't yet heard about but who could break out nationally.

The Dems have a deep bench. The GOP has a Trump loyalty problem.

Sure, and we need a competitive primary to sort them out. There is no Biden alternative waiting in the wings because there was no primary. Well, there is, but Biden's running against "none of the above." An Arab American group in Michigan is pushing for Uncommitted. If Uncommitted breaks into double digits, Democrats will have a serious problem.

I am a big fan of Pete Buttigieg and would have much preferred him to Biden, but the others? Harris has pretty much been MIA the past four years. Klobuchar flamed out in the last primary and hasn’t done much to burnish her credentials since then. Booker had his moment but he’s not even all that popular in NJ right now.

I don’t know much about Whitmer (other than the MAGAts tried to kidnap her). All I know about Shapiro is that he decisively beat an absolute dog of a candidate in Mastriano. Newsom has potential, but to a certain extent as California goes, so goes Gavin Newsom, and California doesn’t see to be doing so great these days (or so say the folks I meet that are part of the exodus from there to Oregon).

In the end, there may well be talent on the Democratic bench, but as Kraken points out, in foreclosing a primary, the party machinery has done much to prevent that talent from blossoming, at least on the national stage.

Many Americans won’t vote for a gay man, a minority candidate or a woman no matter how good they are. I recall in 2016 10% of male Democrat voters refused to vote for a woman…

[Kurth]

I am a big fan of Pete Buttigieg

Why? What has he accomplished as the mayor of a middling sized city or as Transportation Secretary that impresses you?

He is an extraordinary communicator, able to deftly sidestep Fox News lines of bullshit and deliver a substantial message even in enemy media territory. He's eloquent, calm under pressure, and knows his facts backwards and forwards.

This is a hugely important political skill. Buttigieg might be just behind Obama in having it.

This. Exactly this.

[Kraken]

Also worth pointing out that the Democratic Party is not exactly bursting at the seams with young, talented, up-and-comers likely to have a broad-based appeal. It's not just that Biden is too old and is a bad candidate. There are no obvious replacements, even if he was willing to step down, and this likely furthers his conviction (and that of other party leaders) that he's the best shot. Vicious circle.

Harris (VP), Newsom (CA), Whitmer (MI), Shapiro (PA), Klobuchar (MN), and Booker (NJ) are the young and obvious candidates for a 2028 primary. Plus there are several rising stars we haven't yet heard about but who could break out nationally.

The Dems have a deep bench. The GOP has a Trump loyalty problem.

Sure, and we need a competitive primary to sort them out. There is no Biden alternative waiting in the wings because there was no primary. Well, there is, but Biden's running against "none of the above." An Arab American group in Michigan is pushing for Uncommitted. If Uncommitted breaks into double digits, Democrats will have a serious problem.

I am a big fan of Pete Buttigieg and would have much preferred him to Biden, but the others? Harris has pretty much been MIA the past four years. Klobuchar flamed out in the last primary and hasn’t done much to burnish her credentials since then. Booker had his moment but he’s not even all that popular in NJ right now.

I don’t know much about Whitmer (other than the MAGAts tried to kidnap her). All I know about Shapiro is that he decisively beat an absolute dog of a candidate in Mastriano. Newsom has potential, but to a certain extent as California goes, so goes Gavin Newsom, and California doesn’t see to be doing so great these days (or so say the folks I meet that are part of the exodus from there to Oregon).

In the end, there may well be talent on the Democratic bench, but as Kraken points out, in foreclosing a primary, the party machinery has done much to prevent that talent from blossoming, at least on the national stage.

Many Americans won’t vote for a gay man, a minority candidate or a woman no matter how good they are. I recall in 2016 10% of male Democrat voters refused to vote for a woman…

True, but every election cycle it becomes slightly less true. Buttigieg is young enough to outlive that bias as it ages out of the population. Maybe not in '28, but in '32, or '36, or...? Meanwhile, he continues to burnish his resume and network.

[YellowKing]

Yeah if you're not impressed with Buttigieg, you've never seen him absolutely dismantle a Fox News commentator.