4K Pinball stuff

[Daehawk]

I remember us all talking about machines and LED lights and full mechanical pinball tables vs large full screen tables.

There didn't seem to be a precise pinball thread and I have a neat video that needs a thread so here it is lol.

I thought you pinball lovers might enjoy this video on a type of machine. Its a screen pinball but it had physical buttons and even actuators to do both the feel and sound of a real flipper and such. Kind of a miss mash of tech that comes together to work. Even the plunger takes account for how far you pull it back to shoot the then digital ball.

Even the back board is a screen and can be matched in software to the tables. Neat. I love the Star Trek ones you barely get to see near the start of the video as it pans over the tables.

[Skinypupy]

We talked about it a bunch in the Video Games Randomness thread, but I don’t think we had a dedicated one.

I have both an AtGames arcade cabinet and their Legends digital pinball table. The arcade cab is great and still gets used a ton. We’ve had a few hiccups (one of the firmware updates bricked the system for a couple months), but overall it works pretty well now.

I don’t think I’d buy another pinball table from them though. The display on mine crapped out after about 8 months and the company has been an absolute nightmare to work with in trying to get it fixed. They think that some of the connectors are shorting out (and that diagnosis took several months of back and forth emails) and the only option they’ve given me is to purchase an entirely new bottom cabinet (for several hundred dollars) and install it myself (which includes soldering multiple connections). I’m basically chalking it up as a lost cause at this point and will probably be taking the unit to the dump when we do our spring cleaning this year as it’s completely unplayable.

When it worked, it was awesome. Felt as close to playing a real table as you can get without spending several thousand on the real thing. The fact that they’re doing actual popular licensed tables is good, as my biggest complaint was that most of the emulated Zaccaria tables (which made up the bulk of their available DLC) were meh. Most of them were very old-school (not my thing) but even the new ones were really strange and just not very much fun to play.

I was able to hook up my Switch and play the Pinball FX tables as well, which was cool. Only downside was that I had to use the joy cons instead of the flipper buttons.

So cool tech, but definite buyer beware on durability.

[Punisher]

We talked about it a bunch in the Video Games Randomness thread, but I don’t think we had a dedicated one.

I have both an AtGames arcade cabinet and their Legends digital pinball table. The arcade cab is great and still gets used a ton. We’ve had a few hiccups (one of the firmware updates bricked the system for a couple months), but overall it works pretty well now.

I don’t think I’d buy another pinball table from them though. The display on mine crapped out after about 8 months and the company has been an absolute nightmare to work with in trying to get it fixed. They think that some of the connectors are shorting out (and that diagnosis took several months of back and forth emails) and the only option they’ve given me is to purchase an entirely new bottom cabinet (for several hundred dollars) and install it myself (which includes soldering multiple connections). I’m basically chalking it up as a lost cause at this point and will probably be taking the unit to the dump when we do our spring cleaning this year as it’s completely unplayable.

When it worked, it was awesome. Felt as close to playing a real table as you can get without spending several thousand on the real thing. The fact that they’re doing actual poplar licensed tables is good, as my biggest complaint was that most of the emulated Zaccaria tables (which made up most lol of their DLC) were meh. I was able to hook up my Switch and play the Pinball FX tables as well, which was cool. Only downside was that I had to use the joy cons instead of the flipper buttons.

So cool tech, but definite buyer beware on durability.

If you only had ot for 8 mobths, how long waa their warranty? I thought the standard was at least 1 year for things.

[Daehawk]

I prefer real tables. I was never big on pinball until late in my arcade days and then they were gone. If I had money no object funds and plenty of space it would be real tables. Id probably have most re modded with bright colorful LEDs instead of bulbs too.

But there is something for having one table be able to mimic so many others with the press of a button.

[Skinypupy]

If you only had ot for 8 mobths, how long waa their warranty? I thought the standard was at least 1 year for things.

Nope, 90-day warranty. Which you can extend to 1, 2, or 3 years by paying them more (of course). We were halfway through the warranty period before we even used the machine. Bought it just after Thanksgiving and didn't give it to the kids until Christmas that year.

I really think I just got a lemon, tbh.

[Punisher]

If you only had ot for 8 mobths, how long waa their warranty? I thought the standard was at least 1 year for things.

Nope, 90-day warranty. Which you can extend to 1, 2, or 3 years by paying them more (of course). We were halfway through the warranty period before we even used the machine. Bought it just after Thanksgiving and didn't give it to the kids until Christmas that year.

I really think I just got a lemon, tbh.

For me, that would have been a negative review online. 90 day warranty for something like that and I'm thinking that they know they have a dud in the 1st place.

[Skinypupy]

I'm looking to potentially replace it with one (possibly two) of the Arcade 1Up tables. The Attack from Mars one for sure, and possibly the Star Wars one as well.

They're not expandable, but most of the additional DLC tables on the Legends table were crap anyways. The Attack From Mars cab has a bunch of my favorite tables that I already know I love, so it seems like a no-brainer.

Attack from Mars™
Fish Tales™
The Getaway: High Speed II™
Junk Yard™
Medieval Madness™
White Water™
Red & Ted’s Road Show™
Hurricane™
Tales of the Arabian Nights™
No Good Gofers!™

[Giles Habibula]

I don’t think I’d buy another pinball table from them though. The display on mine crapped out after about 8 months and the company has been an absolute nightmare to work with in trying to get it fixed. They think that some of the connectors are shorting out (and that diagnosis took several months of back and forth emails) and the only option they’ve given me is to purchase an entirely new bottom cabinet (for several hundred dollars) and install it myself (which includes soldering multiple connections). I’m basically chalking it up as a lost cause at this point and will probably be taking the unit to the dump when we do our spring cleaning this year as it’s completely unplayable.

When it worked, it was awesome. Felt as close to playing a real table as you can get without spending several thousand on the real thing. The fact that they’re doing actual popular licensed tables is good, as my biggest complaint was that most of the emulated Zaccaria tables (which made up the bulk of their available DLC) were meh. Most of them were very old-school (not my thing) but even the new ones were really strange and just not very much fun to play.

Thanks very much for the warning, as a product like this really seems aimed straight at me. At one time I had four full-sized EM machines from the 70s that I loved very much, and would have bought more if I had the room. But I recognized that I was having a "collecting" problem, and sold two of them. The two I have remaining are currently in a spare bedroom with storage boxes stacked on top of them, so I can't even play them. So multiple tables in a single physical table seems ideal for someone like myself.

As I grew up in 70s, I am quite fond of those old-school table designs, which for me seem to have more thought put into the design, rather than simply shooting the same ramps over and over again. The old-school tables were much more open, allowing for more freedom of ball movement, and with the right layout could be quite exciting and challenging. Unfortunately (at least in the 70s) Gottlieb tables in particular seemed to be designed to have the player lose their ball almost immediately, which put a lot of people off those tables.

My favorites were always by Williams, followed closely by Bally. Anyway, I guess I'll stick to the tables I own on Steam for now. I have most of the Zaccaria tables, and am working on my collections from Pinball Arcade and FX. While I do maintain a fondness for those old-school tables, I do still enjoy the newer tables as well. And to be honest, the computer versions these days are pretty damn good. The physics have come a long way since the days of Tristan (wish I could get Tristan to work on a modern PC).

[Skinypupy]

Thanks very much for the warning, as a product like this really seems aimed straight at me. At one time I had four full-sized EM machines from the 70s that I loved very much, and would have bought more if I had the room. But I recognized that I was having a "collecting" problem, and sold two of them. The two I have remaining are currently in a spare bedroom with storage boxes stacked on top of them, so I can't even play them. So multiple tables in a single physical table seems ideal for someone like myself.

Yeah, the multiple tables was the biggest draw for me as well. Unfortunately, I find the general design of the Zaccaria tables to be just...weird. I absolutely hate their art style, especially when there's an image of a person in the playfield. I mean, this is just awful to the point of distracting.



They don't generally have themes that I'm particularly interested in either. Themes like butterflies, motorcycle daredevils, 50's doo-wop bands, pool tournaments, and medieval poker just don't get me very excited. I also find their sound design to be really odd. The music never feels right for the table, with the space-themed table playing smooth jazz in the background while the table based on a circus plays menacing synth-based sci-fi music. It's like someone accidentally switched which music file was supposed to play with each table and they never bothered to fix it. And don't get me started on the voice work, which ranges anywhere from laughably bad to "WTF was that" to "did one of the designer's kids record that from the bottom of a well?"

A few of the tables were fun (I liked the Kung Fu and the Robot tables) but I can't say I was really a big fan of any of them. Not like I am with the Williams or Bally tables (I could play "Attack from Mars" or "Medieval Madness" for days).

Unfortunately (at least in the 70s) Gottlieb tables in particular seemed to be designed to have the player lose their ball almost immediately, which put a lot of people off those tables.

There are a bunch of Gottlieb tables included with the Legends Pinball table as well, but the emulation on them is quite poor. In addition to the general table design issues you mentioned (Gottlieb tables have the largest middle drain I've ever played), the physics are way too bouncy and the entire table just looks...flat. The ball looks more like a grey disc zipping around than an actual ball, and they generally aren't much fun to play.

My favorites were always by Williams, followed closely by Bally. Anyway, I guess I'll stick to the tables I own on Steam for now. I have most of the Zaccaria tables, and am working on my collections from Pinball Arcade and FX. While I do maintain a fondness for those old-school tables, I do still enjoy the newer tables as well. And to be honest, the computer versions these days are pretty damn good. The physics have come a long way since the days of Tristan (wish I could get Tristan to work on a modern PC).

This is why I'm leaning towards the Attack from Mars Arcade 1Up table. I'll have far fewer tables, but they'll be ones that I absolutely love.

And to be fair, I really do think I was just unlucky and got a bad unit. I'm in a couple digital pinball FB groups and most people don't seem to be having the same issues with the Legends unit as I did. There were a couple minor problems right out of the box that I ignored because because it was the kid's big Christmas present (I wouldn't have been able to get a replacement in time for Christmas) and I just never fixed it because it mostly worked fine...until it didn't anymore. Then AtGames awful customer service came into play and, well, now I'm probably going to throw it away.

[YellowKing]

I'm also strongly considering the Attack From Mars machine - that absolutely is my favorite table, and I'm a big fan of the others as well. I think that's going on my Christmas list this year. I already have an Arcade 1Up Pacman cabinet that I've been very happy with, so it would make for a cool companion piece.

A friend of mine just bought an actual Godzilla pinball cabinet, and that thing is epic. His wife just got into the local pinball tournament scene, and through their members they got a good deal on it.

I've tinkered with the idea of building my own virtual pinball cabinet, but when all is said and done you're still going to drop a ton of money not to mention the time investment and the fact I don't know what the hell I'm doing. It's only something I'd consider if the Arcade1Up doesn't satisfy my pinball itch.

[Skinypupy]

I'm also strongly considering the Attack From Mars machine - that absolutely is my favorite table, and I'm a big fan of the others as well.

It's $250 off right now and Kohls will ship it for free.

A friend of mine just bought an actual Godzilla pinball cabinet, and that thing is epic. His wife just got into the local pinball tournament scene, and through their members they got a good deal on it.

That's a fantastic table. A local store here had an open box floor model for $4K that I considered...right up until I watched some dude absolutely smashing on the poor flipper buttons. No way I'd buy one with that level of abuse.

If/when I do get one, it will either be Stern's Star Wars, Black Knight: Sword of Rage, or Iron Maiden tables.

[hitbyambulance]

Then AtGames awful customer service came into play and, well, now I'm probably going to throw it away.

throwing it away is a bit extreme - put it on craigslist for $5 or whatever (to weed out the freebie flakes and hoarders) and *someone* will come to pick it up, even with a disclaimer that it will need a $200-300 dollar component to fix. that table MSRPs for $800! (like, if i had the room, i would buy that replacement board and do the soldering myself)

[hitbyambulance]

They don't generally have themes that I'm particularly interested in either. Themes like butterflies, motorcycle daredevils, 50's doo-wop bands, pool tournaments, and medieval poker just don't get me very excited.

i find the new pinball tables are over-licensed. there aren't a whole lot of non-licensed ones. e.g. see all the latest Stern tables:

https://sternpinball.com/games/

all but five of these (plus a sequel to their older tables) are a licensed brand/property (movie, tv show, comic, sport organization, band, etc). it doesn't have to be this way!

[Skinypupy]

Then AtGames awful customer service came into play and, well, now I'm probably going to throw it away.

throwing it away is a bit extreme - put it on craigslist for $5 or whatever (to weed out the freebie flakes and hoarders) and *someone* will come to pick it up, even with a disclaimer that it will need a $200-300 dollar component to fix. that table MSRPs for $800! (like, if i had the room, i would buy that replacement board and do the soldering myself)

Last few times we tried to give stuff away for free (an older TV, monitor, old laptop, and some old board games) it was a giant pain the ass. Multiple calls, texts, having to drag the stuff somewhere to meet only to have them no-show or change their mind, etc. Not sure if I want to deal with all that, but we’ll see.

[quote=Skinypupy post_id=3031077 time=<a href="tel:1711632804">1711632804</a> user_id=760]

They don't generally have themes that I'm particularly interested in either. Themes like butterflies, motorcycle daredevils, 50's doo-wop bands, pool tournaments, and medieval poker just don't get me very excited.

i find the new pinball tables are over-licensed. there aren't a whole lot of non-licensed ones. e.g. see all the latest Stern tables:

https://sternpinball.com/games/

all but five of these (plus a sequel to their older tables) are a licensed brand/property (movie, tv show, comic, sport organization, band, etc). it doesn't have to be this way!
[/quote]

Different strokes, I suppose. I’m far more interested in tables based on Jaws, Star Wars, Avengers, etc than a bunch of random themes.

[hitbyambulance]

Last few times we tried to give stuff away for free (an older TV, monitor, old laptop, and some old board games) it was a giant pain the ass. Multiple calls, texts, having to drag the stuff somewhere to meet only to have them no-show or change their mind, etc. Not sure if I want to deal with all that, but we’ll see.

i guess if you're not having them show up at your house, yeah, it's going to be waaaaaaay more of a pain.
but that's why you don't give this away for free - filters out all the freeloaders who decide at the last second they actually don't want it that bad. i'd even charge $25-50 for it (and even have them pay you in advance) - for the right customer, they'll go along with that and no questions asked. and if you want, if they actually show up, don't even charge them.

[Daehawk]

Shit Id love to have it but Im hit with every no no you can imagine....not local so cant pick up, dont have a working car never mind a truck to pick up if I did, cant afford shipping on something this big and heavy. Lol

If I got it would sit until I either paid off the home then fixed it as Im not kidding a home pinball is wild even if its a screen type one..but that makes it cool as it can be many different table. Or I could deal with AtGames somehow to replace it. Cause I got nothing better to do lol. Time I got plenty of.

[Skinypupy]

So, my Attack From Mars Arcade 1Up table showed up today. A couple quick thoughts, in comparison to the Legends Pinball.

- The 1Up table definitely feels lower quality than the Legends cab. The screen is smaller, the flipper buttons aren't as snappy, the plunger pull isn't quite as smooth, etc. Outside of the issue I had with the display, everything else about the Legends table components was absolutely top notch.
- That said, the smaller size of the 1Up table actually fits my room a little better.
- Gameplay is just fine. If you've played any of these tables in Pinball FX or Zen Pinball, you'll know exactly what to expect. The tables are all fantastic…with one major caveat. Sadly, the feedback about the abysmal frame rate on WhiteWater is legit. It’s pretty much unplayable. Every single one of them is miles better than any of the tables I had access to on the Legends cabinet.
- The UI is great. Very simple, easy to navigate, and clean. The Legends cabinet UI was a bit of a mess, was often completely unresponsive, and required you to go through a lengthy login process every time you booted it up.
- Feels like there might be some very slight flipper lag. Nothing I couldn't adjust for pretty quickly. (I took out 5 of the 6 knights on "Medieval Madness" on my first try. )
- The audio is a little weird. Music and SFX in the menus is crazy loud and the sound is perfectly clear, but the sound in the actual tables is much lower and has sort of a background hiss to it. Really odd, probably just need to play with the settings.
- The solenoids that give a little knock when the ball hits the bumpers or you trigger the flippers is really cool.
- The "Attack From Mars" cabinet artwork looks amazing. It's miles better than the frankly super ugly Gottleib artwork that is all over the Legends cab. From an aesthetic standpoint, there's no comparison...1Up wins by a mile. Will try to post a picture later.

Feels like a solid investment so far. I'm going to keep an eye out for a sale on the Star Wars table. Last year, they apparently did a "May the 4th" promo and sold them for 44% off. If they do that again this year, I'll probably grab it.

[Skinypupy]

I may find a use for my VR headset after all!

[disarm]

I may find a use for my VR headset after all!

That looks very cool. Unfortunately, it looks like the PinStation controller isn't available yet...going on sale via Kickstarter sometime later this year for a not yet revealed price. Looks like a really cool piece of hardware though.

Gibson Pinball PinStation

[TheMix]

I've never been a pinball fan, but I still think that looks crazy cool.

[Daehawk]

Some of the real tables Id love to have are Star Trek TNG, Star Trek, F-14 Tomcat, Mars Attacks...so many great blinky lights.

[Skinypupy]

After spending a couple months with the Arcade 1Up "Attack From Mars" cabinet, I would strongly caution anyone against buying one of these units. The tables are fine (except Whitewater, which is completely unplayable) but the unit itself has all sorts of issues.

- There's a huge lag between the actions on the table and the sound that comes through the speakers. Literally about a half-second delay between when my flipper hits the ball on the screen and when the "click" sound comes out of the speaker. It's not a huge deal if you're playing with the solenoids on (because the thump from the solenoid is timed correctly and overrides the flipper or bumper sound effect) but it's nearly unplayable without those on.
- No matter how much I fiddle with the settings, the volume continues to be completely out of whack. The manual volume switch that is supposed to take it up and down in increments of 1 doesn't work at all. It's either on at full blast or completely off. Adjusting the software settings is the same. The very lowest software volume setting is ridiculously loud, and it only goes up from there. There's no middle ground here...it's either "blow out your eardrums" loud or completely off.
- Several of my high scores have simply disappeared from the scoreboards. No idea why.
- The accelerometer they use for table nudges doesn't really work. It either doesn't register at all, or does this crazy hard nudge that throws the ball across the screen.
- There's no incremental strength on the plunger. It either goes off at full strength or doesn't do anything.

At this point, I think I'm pretty much done with digital pinball. My Legends Pinball table seemed like a solid unit but completely shit the bed (and the tables mostly sucked anyways), and this 1Up unit has fun tables but the cabinet construction and tech are just absolute garbage. I'm bummed, as I'd really love to find a combination of solid cabinet and fun games that actually works, but would likely need to get into the whole mod scene for that (which I'm not nearly tech savvy enough to do).

I am considering buying an actual pinball table for my 50th birthday though. Leaning towards the Stern Star Wars table, if I can find one. Stay tuned...

[Carpet_pissr]

I may find a use for my VR headset after all!

OMG that looks amazing, assuming there is absolutely zero lag wrt to the flippers and the ball action.

[YellowKing]

After spending a couple months with the Arcade 1Up "Attack From Mars" cabinet, I would strongly caution anyone against buying one of these units.

I almost pulled the trigger on one, but kept running into reviews from people outlining similar issues and decided against it. Glad I did now.

I think my pinball dreams (virtual or otherwise) have been pretty much put on hold. If I do wind up dropping that kind of money, it's probably going to be on a pool table. Unlike pinball, my wife really loves pool and I know she'd play it. I think the kids would get more longevity out of it as well.

[Skinypupy]

I think my pinball dreams (virtual or otherwise) have been pretty much put on hold. If I do wind up dropping that kind of money, it's probably going to be on a pool table. Unlike pinball, my wife really loves pool and I know she'd play it. I think the kids would get more longevity out of it as well.

If I had room, pool table would be my first choice as well. I’ll have to stick to the home arcade instead.

Thankfully the modded Legends Arcade cabinet is still going strong.

[Skinypupy]

Oh. My. God.

Stern to release D&D table that looks incredible.

https://youtu.be/-LszrgZ_zxE?si=FCMdu_KA163jF1M_

[Daehawk]

looks pretty cool. As a kid I was not into pinball. I was ALL for arcade games ..video games. I finally discovered pinball when I was like 17 in 1986. I got to play amazing tables through thhe late 80s and into the mid 90s. But then arcades disappeared. So by finding pinball later than most i didn't get long to enjoy them.

One of my first favorites was F-14 Tomcat and I think the last was Star Trek The Next Generation. Id REALLY love the old TOS table redone with LEDs and such. Or the same STtNG one.

[hentzau]

Oh. My. God.

Stern to release D&D table that looks incredible.

https://youtu.be/-LszrgZ_zxE?si=FCMdu_KA163jF1M_

Yeah, this looks bonkers. I would love to be able to play it sometime. If I had the room (and spare cash without screwing my retirement) I would have 4 tables in my home: Black Knight, Xenon, Rush, and this table. I would get this and the Rush tables without every playing them if I had the means/room.

Fun Fact: the Stern Pinball headquarters/factory is in the NW suburbs of Chicago, and I was able to go on a tour of it as a work outing. It was really fun, they walked us through the process from conception to final table. Unfortunately they've stopped doing tours, otherwise I would love to set up another tour with my scout troop.

[Skinypupy]

I put my name on the mailing list for availability.

I was planning on getting either the new Black Knight or a Star Wars table for my 50th birthday, but didn't pull the trigger. Glad I waited, as this one looks much cooler. It would be a remarkably irresponsible purchase, but I do get a bonus each year. 2025's just might go towards this.

[Skinypupy]

Just put down a $500 deposit on the D&D table.

Probably the most financially irresponsible decision of my life, but I couldn't resist.

This is a really good breakdown of the table mechanics.