How is your career going?

[RunningMn9]

Occasionally working for the government has its benefits. I got 5% this year.

We switched to an alternate pay banding system. One of the advantages seems to be that merit increases are disconnected from the across the board raises.

I took about a 6% salary hit to transition last summer but reclaimed about 5.4% with the across the board bump. That was helpful.

[Kurth]

I’ve been in my current job for going on 9 years. For most of that time, I’ve loved the job and the company. I’ve been promoted once and feel like I’m compensated fairly. I’d like to advance and take on some new challenges, but I’m also not incredibly ambitious in that way or driven by title or the number of people that report to me, which is good, because there is a log jam at the top and very little room for advancement in my org. While I’d love to take over my boss’s role and believe I could kill that job, that’s not happening unless he moves up or on, and there’s no clear path forward for that to happen. All that aside, for most of my time here, I could never imagine working anywhere else, and I felt this would be a place I’d eventually retire from.

But things started to change over the past few years. We got a new CEO just before the pandemic, a hire that was external to the company. He never seemed like a natural fit, but because of the timing and all the issues with the pandemic, I think most were willing to give him a pass and a pretty long leash. But, now, 3 years or so into his tenure, things are not looking good. Our stock price has dropped 45% from its most recent peak, and the morale in the company is abysmal. All vestiges of the former leadership team are pretty much gone, and there is little to no confidence in the senior leaders that are currently in place. To many both inside and outside the company, it feels like the company has lost its way.

We’ve also been hit with very significant layoffs recently. My job and team are safe, but we’ve seen many colleagues and friends depart, and the new structure that has been put in place doesn’t make a ton of sense given the company’s professed strategic priorities.

With all that as background, a couple weeks back, I got a LinkedIn request for a meeting from a talent acquisition person at a company I’ve always been incredibly interested in. I wouldn’t usually respond, but given the company doing the asking and the fact that they were recruiting for a position that sounded like the next step up for me, I connected with them, and we had a call. That first call went great, and I had a second call with someone else there in HR/recruiting on Friday. That meeting went even better, and I learned more about the position, which confirmed that they are essentially hiring for my boss’s job at this other company in an org that they are in the process of building out. The job sounds amazing and would give me increased responsibility and new challenges. The bummer is, while they’re hiring for my boss’s job, they’re not paying my boss’s compensation (or what I assume is my boss’s compensation). While this would be a significant advancement for me in terms of role, the compensation is almost exactly what I’m making right now in my current role; it’s a little more, but no more than an annual expected raise and not commensurate with an actual promotion.

I don’t want to put the cart before the horse, as I’ve only met with HR/recruiters so far, but I’m supposed to meet with the hiring manager (potential new boss) in the next week or so. I feel like this is something I have to explore, and I’m admittedly excited at the potential opportunity of working at this new company, both because of the role and the company. But I am concerned about the comp situation.

Would you consider a move to a new company you’ve always been a fan of when that move would be a promotion in role but a lateral move in terms of compensation? Does that make sense?

[gilraen]

You almost always take a promotion in role (unless it's too detrimental financially, like if it's in a really small company and would actually be a pay cut; or if it's a ruse by your current company to dump more responsibilities on you without appropriate compensation). Once you have a more advanced title on your resume, you just opened up a new "layer" of opportunities, in terms of both future career possibilities or future raises in the current role. Like, in your current position, you may be in the upper salary band, but in the new position you would be joining at the bottom of the salary band with more significant raises potentially happening down the line.

[RunningMn9]

Yep, and I hear talk of 7% next year, but I highly doubt that happens.

While I also doubt it happens, as a general rule (at least in certain localities), the GS scale is still 20-30% behind private industry. So I get why they are going to ask for it.

[dfs]

Would you consider a move to a new company you’ve always been a fan of when that move would be a promotion in role but a lateral move in terms of compensation?

Yes.

[Skinypupy]

Would you consider a move to a new company you’ve always been a fan of when that move would be a promotion in role but a lateral move in terms of compensation? Does that make sense?

Seems like that would be a very savvy move, especially since your current company seems to have lost its way.

[Kurth]

You almost always take a promotion in role (unless it's too detrimental financially, like if it's in a really small company and would actually be a pay cut; or if it's a ruse by your current company to dump more responsibilities on you without appropriate compensation). Once you have a more advanced title on your resume, you just opened up a new "layer" of opportunities, in terms of both future career possibilities or future raises in the current role. Like, in your current position, you may be in the upper salary band, but in the new position you would be joining at the bottom of the salary band with more significant raises potentially happening down the line.

Only other wrinkle is that the new title is lateral as well. I don’t put too much stock in that, but I’d be moving from a senior director role to a senior director role. The step up at my current company is to a VP role, but VPs are few and far between at the new place. There are a couple dozen of them in my current org, but less than a quarter of that number at the potential new place.

So the role/responsibilities and place in the org at the new place would be a step up even if the title is not.

I don’t think that should weigh heavily in the calculus, but it’s still something I’m thinking about.

[stessier]

Are you able to do any market research to understand how the job responsibilities are categorized at companies besides the two you mentioned? I mean - are the new responsibilities generally seen in your field as VP level or director level? And then have you looked into how VP and director level positions are compensated elsewhere? It could be that your company overpays or over-titles. Could be that your current company is perfectly inline with the overall industry and the new company is just at the lower end.

Titles don't have to matter, but they do open doors if you ever decide to look for a job.

[Kurth]

Titles don't have to matter, but they do open doors if you ever decide to look for a job.

If this thing turns out to be a real opportunity, this would be my concern, too. The title looks lateral. The comp is lateral. But the job itself is not.

Not really sure how to do market research on this. Most of the people I would want to talk to get more information are people that I’d feel uncomfortable telling I was thinking about other opportunities. I’ll think on that some more and see what I can find out that’s publicly available. The problem with that is that so many people can’t be trusted by what they put on LinkedIn and other public-facing sources of information. Lots of puffery and self-promotion going on.

[Carpet_pissr]

Titles don't have to matter, but they do open doors if you ever decide to look for a job.

If this thing turns out to be a real opportunity, this would be my concern, too. The title looks lateral. The comp is lateral. But the job itself is not.

Not really sure how to do market research on this. Most of the people I would want to talk to get more information are people that I’d feel uncomfortable telling I was thinking about other opportunities. I’ll think on that some more and see what I can find out that’s publicly available. The problem with that is that so many people can’t be trusted by what they put on LinkedIn and other public-facing sources of information. Lots of puffery and self-promotion going on.

You can ask this rather anonymously on Fishbowl, you just have to find the right forum. I’ve seen some VERY candid posts giving insight and info about large companies and niche higher level roles there. Things you would never, ever see on LinkedIn. Unless its changed considerably since I last visited..

[Kurth]

Titles don't have to matter, but they do open doors if you ever decide to look for a job.

If this thing turns out to be a real opportunity, this would be my concern, too. The title looks lateral. The comp is lateral. But the job itself is not.

Not really sure how to do market research on this. Most of the people I would want to talk to get more information are people that I’d feel uncomfortable telling I was thinking about other opportunities. I’ll think on that some more and see what I can find out that’s publicly available. The problem with that is that so many people can’t be trusted by what they put on LinkedIn and other public-facing sources of information. Lots of puffery and self-promotion going on.

You can ask this rather anonymously on Fishbowl, you just have to find the right forum. I’ve seen some VERY candid posts giving insight and info about large companies and niche higher level roles there. Things you would never, ever see on LinkedIn. Unless its changed considerably since I last visited..

Never heard of that. Thanks for the info. I'll check it out.

[GreenGoo]

While I also doubt it happens, as a general rule (at least in certain localities), the GS scale is still 20-30% behind private industry. So I get why they are going to ask for it.

I get so sick of media asking why government aren't laying off people during economic down turns but silence when the economy is booming and we are being paid much less than private industry.

Not being laid off (i.e. employment stability) is one of the most significant benefits of government employment. It's part of our original decision making for our careers.

Something the media also doesn't care about is how hard it is to get qualified people to work for the government at such a reduced wage. We are almost chronically short staff and often pay signing bonuses when we can find someone. If we laid them off during a weak quarter? We'd never see them again.

I also get that the image of the lazy worker at the dmv making life hard for everyone is a stereotype, but the government does so much good, honest, important work that it is frustrating to have the media treat all government everywhere as a punching bag. This should also be part of y our decision making for your career. I can live with most of it, but they need to shut the fuck up about trying to get me fired because private industry is struggling. FU, assholes.

We don't get to share in prosperity but we should only share in economic suffering? Our work is not profit based, douche nozzles, but so much of it helps private industry make profit, often for cheap.

[RunningMn9]

That’s the deal, I trade cash for stability. If I don’t get the stability part of the equation, why would anyone do this job?

[YellowKing]

I got pulled into a meeting yesterday with a select group of others and was told explicitly that I'm keeping my job, and that the others previously impacted by the layoff announcement would be getting their 60 day notices in a couple of months.

While there's certainly nothing stopping them from cutting more jobs at a later date, it's at least the first real confirmation I've had from upper management that my position is "safe."

I'm still banking money, still keeping the resume updated, but I certainly feel better about things than I did a month ago. At the very least this whole experience has been a huge wake-up call.

[raydude]

While I also doubt it happens, as a general rule (at least in certain localities), the GS scale is still 20-30% behind private industry. So I get why they are going to ask for it.

I get so sick of media asking why government aren't laying off people during economic down turns but silence when the economy is booming and we are being paid much less than private industry.

Not being laid off (i.e. employment stability) is one of the most significant benefits of government employment. It's part of our original decision making for our careers.

Something the media also doesn't care about is how hard it is to get qualified people to work for the government at such a reduced wage. We are almost chronically short staff and often pay signing bonuses when we can find someone. If we laid them off during a weak quarter? We'd never see them again.

I also get that the image of the lazy worker at the dmv making life hard for everyone is a stereotype, but the government does so much good, honest, important work that it is frustrating to have the media treat all government everywhere as a punching bag. This should also be part of y our decision making for your career. I can live with most of it, but they need to shut the fuck up about trying to get me fired because private industry is struggling. FU, assholes.

We don't get to share in prosperity but we should only share in economic suffering? Our work is not profit based, douche nozzles, but so much of it helps private industry make profit, often for cheap.

I would also point out that, IMHO, it seems there is one political party who seems to delight in trying to downsize government without thinking about what that would mean to the average citizen. Then there are also the pupeteers behind the scenes who would like nothing less than to have a constrained government that is thereby limited in trying to find accountability and fraud.

[Default]

This all sounds so familiar...

[Kurth]

I got pulled into a meeting yesterday with a select group of others and was told explicitly that I'm keeping my job, and that the others previously impacted by the layoff announcement would be getting their 60 day notices in a couple of months.

While there's certainly nothing stopping them from cutting more jobs at a later date, it's at least the first real confirmation I've had from upper management that my position is "safe."

I'm still banking money, still keeping the resume updated, but I certainly feel better about things than I did a month ago. At the very least this whole experience has been a huge wake-up call.

Glad to hear you’re safe. My current company is going through some very large layoffs right now (~10-15% of our local workforce of about 10K). My larger org is about 400, and we lost 45 people. We were told to work from home last week so they could have the meetings with the impacted over Zoom. Returning to the office this week, there are a lot of people gone. Friends and colleagues. Some were in jobs that didn’t make a lot of sense, but others were skilled and competent and in jobs that seemed important to the company. Tough times to go through, even if you are not impacted.

In other news, the new company that reached out to me about an interesting opportunity was reported as going through layoffs this week, too. So, that’s great.

[Octavious]

20 percent more pay. 8 hours a week less driving. The actual job so far is easier. People are nice. I don't know what to do with myself.

OK, ok, the free coffee isn't that tasty.

I have half a tank of gas and I last got gas Feb 6th. I can't even.

[LordMortis]

[Isgrimnur]

Hit it.

[Moliere]

[Zenn7]

Got an exceeds for my annual review (4 outta 5), which they are supposed to be using a somewhat more bell curve for that, so great.

Last year was around 3% increase (same performance rating, better than nothing, but against the 8-9% inflation, not so great).

Expected if I'm lucky, it'll be that much again. Close... except I got promoted (completely unexpected, same job, more senior title, like going from level 1 to level 2 sort of thing; a promotion out of my position completely would likely be to management, no thanks!) with a couple % more for that, a one time adjustment and an unexpected bonus.

Quite likely best year ever!

Not that I don't work hard or don't think I deserve it, it's just finally my time I guess. I didn't really thinking I did anything to make me more deserving last year than I had the last several years.

Now I'm a little nervous about what they're looking for this year, though they told me I was already doing the work for the promotion. Not looking for more, just keep doing what I'm doing.

[Moliere]

Are you running a 40 year long scam, called a "career"?

[Isgrimnur]

[Default]

106 days left in uniform. I have a meeting set up at the union hall, where they will help me fill out the paperwork, and will give me an initial guesstimate on what the monthly income will be. End of April, I'll sign up for Social Security benefits.
Still can't believe that I am this stage of life. I guess it helps to never look in a mirror.

[The Meal]

The company is still really amazing. I’d have zero reservations recommending friends come work here. I do report through a different management structure and to a different human from when I started (the management chain is a slight improvement as I’m now considered part of manufacturing rather than test; the direct manager is a pretty big step backward as he has a “just good enough” philosophy which is at odds with my preferred way of doing things, but he still relies heavily on me and very obviously appreciates me — I’ve never seen such a glowing review, and I actually got a raise after nine months). The work is fun (but not terrifically challenging—the biggest thing is no unforced errors), the people pretty terrific, and the company culture is stellar (pun not intended). It’s still pretty physical with the positives and negatives that entails. If I didn’t live in fear/annoyance of how my boss handles his side of things, I’d struggle to find any real negatives.

This was my last post in this thread. Things got a bit ugly for a while, did my post above leave enough breadcrumbs to imagine how things may have gone sour?

Well, I outlasted that boss. The new boss is an absolute 180 and things are very much back in the positive column. Today I received what is very likely the last promotion I'll get in my career, without having direct reports. 2022: +4%; 2023: +4.9%; 2024: +12%.

[Kraken]

Yesterday I submitted the largest invoice I've ever written. Two hours later I accepted a new client with a small job. I'm not looking for new business, but people keep finding me. I want to semi-retire by the end of this year, but meanwhile, it's going pretty well.

[stessier]

I spent my lunch break reading about the Social Security spousal benefit and then went down the rabbit whole that is the SS actuarial report. Really interesting stuff. The one bummer is that it looks like Congress is going to have to act in the year I am planning to retire (not claim benefits, just retire). They have never failed to act in the past, but it always comes down to the last minute and will make planning hard. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll actually do something early. (I'm impressed I was able to type that without the computer exploding.)

[LordMortis]

They were just talking about the solvency of SS and Medicare in the background. I forget the SS solvency date but I remember medicare is currently considered solvent until 2035. This is actually a better date than the last estimate based on a rise in workforce participants.

[pr0ner]

I got 3% too but I expected more than just a CoL increase. /fml

The only time I have ever received more than 3% is by changing jobs.

Occasionally working for the government has its benefits. I got 5% this year.

Yep, and I hear talk of 7% next year, but I highly doubt that happens.

That would be nuts. Especially with my specific agency pushing for a 9% bump to our special rate table as well.

This officially happened and goes into effect June 2. I will now be at the federal pay cap, which is hilarious to me at my age.

[coopasonic]

They were just talking about the solvency of SS and Medicare in the background. I forget the SS solvency date but I remember medicare is currently considered solvent until 2035. This is actually a better date than the last estimate based on a rise in workforce participants.

Solvency could be easy. They currently don’t collect SS on all of my income and there are millions that make more than I do. I mean I appreciate the extra money in December but I would appreciate having SS stable even more.

How is my career going? We’ll, they are still paying me.

[Isgrimnur]

Two new hires, one for the sysadmin side, and a return of my previous employee after a ~2 year stint working at American Airlines.

I will now be pushed into the strategery business and out of the tactical and operational support.

[Kraken]

They were just talking about the solvency of SS and Medicare in the background. I forget the SS solvency date but I remember medicare is currently considered solvent until 2035. This is actually a better date than the last estimate based on a rise in workforce participants.

The dirty little secret is that virtually all of those new workers are immigrants. The native birthrate has been below replacement level for years and is still falling.

We're contemplating starting Wife's SS checks soon, since we're also contemplating buying a house and could really use more income now. I calculated that her breakeven point -- at which the larger checks for waiting until age 70 outweigh all the smaller checks that she isn't collecting between now and then -- is age 81. If she lives much beyond that, the advantage of waiting until 70 mounts quickly. But there are so many complicating factors surrounding that simple calculation. If she draws those checks while she's still working, the feds will tax 85% of them, which pushes that breakeven date farther into the future and argues for waiting. But if Congress doesn't shore up the trust fund, benefits could fall by 25%, arguing for grabbing the money while the grabbing's good. If we don't take the benefits now we'll have to draw on our retirement accounts instead; the SS benefit is a guaranteed amount, whereas investments fluctuate, and those withdrawals will be 100% taxable AND subject to state tax as well. The retirement accounts have been growing nicely for the past year or so, but that can turn on a dime.

We need to meet with our financial advisor and with the Social Security office, because this is way too complicated to make the best decision without help.

We can't actually retire (as in cut back to part time) until we buy the new house, sell the old house, refinance the new house, buy a new car, and do some renovations to the new house. Best case puts that maybe a year away.

[Jeff V]

I filed for SS a month ago, start date in June. Should I expect there to be more to the process than the application on the internet? They asked if I had dependents under 18 (I have 2), but they asked no specifics about them -- birthdates, SS numbers, etc. The whole point to me retiring now is the extra income I get until they turn 18.

We were expecting to get the condo in Manila this summer (August 1) but received a letter from the building owner/management company that they filed for another extension to complete the building, this time until late December. So no summer trip to the Philippines this year (yay!) and depending on specifics, wife might have go herself, possibly early in 2025 when the house in the province is complete. They both need to be furnished so we can list them as AirBnBs. That is the ultimate retirement destination, but I really want the kids to finish high school here (and then let their talents decide their future). That's 11 more years for my daughter.

Driving Uber is basically a no net-income activity. Wife thinks its pretty much worthless but I think the write-offs are generous and I'm making more than I can make on a W2 job while receiving social security.

[Kraken]

I filed for SS a month ago, start date in June. Should I expect there to be more to the process than the application on the internet?

Nope, it's really that easy. Or was for me, anyway.

I waited until my full retirement age so that I can continue earning income without reducing my benefit. I know you don't have that luxury, but once you reach your full age the money they took away comes back to you. IDk exactly how that works since it doesn't apply to me.

[Jeff V]

For the next 8 years, i should be getting more than my normal full benefit thanks to the young'uns. When my son rolls off, another 3 years at 50% bonus until my daughter turns 18.

[Paingod]

I'm back on the search, but very selectively.

Three years ago I was the IT Manager, but had been in that role for 20 years across multiple businesses. Two years ago I was promoted to Operations Manager with a broad team under me. 18 months ago I was promoted to Director of Operations as my purview expanded further. I'm currently 2 classes away from completing a Bachelor's in Business Leadership, and both are basically electives, so there's not a whole lot left to learn about Business left there.

We just made a huge cultural shift under the previous General Manager (who was a textbook "Leader" and not just a "Manager" or money man) and people were very happy with the company, our mission, and our outlook. Amazingly, happy employees made for good workers which made for good customer experiences which made for good business. Who would imagine that?

9 months ago I applied for the General Manager (run the business) role here when the job opened up. So did the CFO, who had been with us for 3 months by that point. My platform was "protect the culture" and his was "here I am". The Board let me know they felt I didn't have the experience and gave him the job. I predicted he'd run the business "by the numbers" and not "for the people".

4 months into his time running the company and that's exactly what he's doing. I ask to spend $60/wk to reorganize a department and give one person a raise and more responsibility so I can curb the burnout I see coming down the line on a superstar manager working for me, and the answer I got back was "I don't see the financial benefit to this". Now the former CFO is prepping to start micromanaging every manager's time. He's already laying the groundwork for this, and in a couple of months time I expect him to declare that salaried managers can no longer flex their schedules to go home early if they've been putting in heavy work hours in prior weeks or days. If you come in on a day off and work 47 hours Sun-Thurs, he expects his full 8 hours on Friday - not a half day - "because it looks bad for the hourly employees who can't do that". I have tried, repeatedly, to explain to him that salaried employees need to be able to be flexible to meet their department's objectives and still maintain what we normally respect as a health work-life balance. He disagrees.

Outside of being a shitty leader, he's organizationally clueless and highly abrasive. His "we're here to collaborate" attitude died within 2 weeks of taking the job. Debate and discussion over courses of action dried up rapidly. Because my department is nebulous - a "support" structure with the word "Operations" in it - he's decided that if he puts "operations" at the end of anything, it's my job. He has me meddling ineffectively in the workings of two other senior managers because he thinks I should be controlling parts of their workflow. He sees those aspects as "operations" - all I'm doing is slowing them down and creating disruptions. He disagrees.

So the search is on before our budget season hits. It really wouldn't surprise me to discover that he feels my job could be ultimately done by splitting it up between the 5 other senior managers. It had been before I took this over. It didn't work well and it was inefficient and it burned people out - but it was less expensive.

Hoping to find another Director of Operations or Director of IT role somewhere now that I've achieved and held the title for over a year. Director of Operations is a bananas role to hunt for. Because it's ill-defined, I see anything and everything lumped into that. Finance, HR, IT, Investments, Facilities - basically "I could be running the whole company except I'm not CEO" roles. I like the varied teams I have working for me right now.

[Kurth]

Titles don't have to matter, but they do open doors if you ever decide to look for a job.

If this thing turns out to be a real opportunity, this would be my concern, too. The title looks lateral. The comp is lateral. But the job itself is not.

Not really sure how to do market research on this. Most of the people I would want to talk to get more information are people that I’d feel uncomfortable telling I was thinking about other opportunities. I’ll think on that some more and see what I can find out that’s publicly available. The problem with that is that so many people can’t be trusted by what they put on LinkedIn and other public-facing sources of information. Lots of puffery and self-promotion going on.

You can ask this rather anonymously on Fishbowl, you just have to find the right forum. I’ve seen some VERY candid posts giving insight and info about large companies and niche higher level roles there. Things you would never, ever see on LinkedIn. Unless its changed considerably since I last visited..

The job interview process is a grind! The potential opportunity I talked about upthread kicked off with a LinkedIn message from a recruiter on 2/15, and nearly three months later, it’s still kicking along. According to the recruiter, though, after a number of delays, they are preparing an offer for me today. I’ll believe it when I see it . . .

In terms of the compensation question, I struck out trying to get benchmarking info from publicly available sources. Indeed and Glassdoor and Fishbowl were pretty useless for me. But I did connect with a large head hunting agency that provided me with a massive report on compensation in my industry (legal), and it made it pretty clear that my current employer pays at the top of the market. So I’m not sure the comp numbers from this new offer - if it actually comes in - are going to do much to move the needle for me. If that’s the case, it will be all about a change of scenery and a promotion in role. We’ll see.

[Paingod]

In terms of the compensation question, I struck out trying to get benchmarking info from publicly available sources. Indeed and Glassdoor and Fishbowl were pretty useless for me. But I did connect with a large head hunting agency that provided me with a massive report on compensation in my industry (legal), and it made it pretty clear that my current employer pays at the top of the market. So I’m not sure the comp numbers from this new offer - if it actually comes in - are going to do much to move the needle for me. If that’s the case, it will be all about a change of scenery and a promotion in role. We’ll see.

That's always been a sticking point for me. I generally feel like I'm underpaid and every substantial raise I've had (except this place) has come from moving to a new employer and lying my pants off about what I'm currently making. They match it plus a little, and I get a new job with a 15% increase in pay.

I think I've finally hit a place in salary where it's even more vague, but the work is also more stressful and demanding. I feel like stepping out of this role and into another company doing something similar would be a 25-50% raise.

What does it generally cost to get that proper analysis done?

[Default]

Social security retirement benefits tax calculator. According to this, I will be taxed on $6200 of my SSI benefits.so that's about a *quarter* of my future benefit that taxes will be calculated for.

https://www.covisum.com/resources/taxab ... calculator