Dragon Age: The Veilguard (DA4)

[Skinypupy]

After a name change from “Dragon Age: Dreadwolf” to “Dragon Age: The Veilguard”, EA released the official reveal trailer today. Releases later this year.



I was all in already (I adore the DA series), but this trailer gives me all the tingles.

Gameplay trailer coming later this week. Can’t wait!

[Blackhawk]

To be honest, that trailer felt off. It didn't feel like Dragon Age at all. Dragon Age always had a certain grounded feel to it that gave it believability, and this lacks that. This feels less like, say, The Witcher, and more like Pirates of the Caribbean.

[Smoove_B]

Was I catching a touch of The Legend of Vox Machina in there - like the tone?

I enjoyed the first Dragon Age very much. I went into DA2 with high reluctance but ultimately ended up enjoying it as well. I tried getting into Inquisition a few times and it never grabbed me. I'll keep watching for more information about this, but I suspect I'm not the audience they're targeting.

[Blackhawk]

Vox Machina is a good comparison to the vibe I'm getting.

From what I've just read, the word out there is that the combat is supposed to be less like Baldur's Gate (where it's roots lie), and more like Final Fantasy 15, including you having only two active companions, and zero control over them beyond choosing which abilities they have active.

If that's accurate, it just went from 'day 1' to 'reviews and sale'.

[Blackhawk]

Spoiler:

[Rumpy]

I've only ever played the first game. I thought it was Ok, but I wasn't feeling drawn to play the others.

[Alefroth]

Watching the trailer on the XBOX showcase I thought that couldn't be DA4, it must be some spinoff game.

[Blackhawk]

I really hope that the caricature/cartoon art style was just for the reveal.

[disarm]

That doesn't look very similar to any Dragon Age so far, and I've played them all to their ends. I'm not getting good feelings about this...

[Max Peck]

It's a reveal trailer with nothing but cinematics, so it doesn't tell us much of anything about what the game looks like or how it plays. In fact, nothing is more traditionally Dragon Age than a reveal trailer that has people saying WTF? -- remember how most people reacted to the The New Shit teaser for DA:O?

Spoiler:

OK, granted, that did accurately reflect the blood splatter...

IIRC, they're going to show off some gameplay later this week. I'm waiting to see that before I get hyped, or dehyped, for the game.

[Skinypupy]

So…apparently I’m the only one who thought it was cool. :shrug:

I’m mostly just excited for more Dragon Age. I think the series blends storytelling, world-building, exploration, and combat better than any fantasy RPG outside of Baldur’s Gate 3, and does it at a difficulty level that always hits the perfect sweet spot with me.

Unless the gameplay is a complete cluster (which is always possible when EA is involved), this will be a no-brainer purchase for me.

[Blackhawk]

I don't disagree with most of that, but I'd be unhappy if either A) Dragon Age turned into an action game with all of the tactical depth removed, and B) Dragon Age completely changed the 'feel' of the series from a somewhat serious, believable fantasy theme to the silly, cartoonish style that we saw in the trailer.

[coopasonic]

So…apparently I’m the only one who thought it was cool. :shrug:

You were not the only one.

Old people are picky.

[hepcat]

I thought it looked good.

[Skinypupy]

I don't disagree with most of that, but I'd be unhappy if either A) Dragon Age turned into an action game with all of the tactical depth removed,

I lower the difficulty and play DA primarily as a hack and slash game already, so that change wouldn't bother me any.

[Blackhawk]

It looked good.

It also looked almost nothing like Dragon Age.

[hepcat]

In the case of Dragon Age 2, that may be a good thing.

[Blackhawk]

This is true.

[Smoove_B]

So…apparently I’m the only one who thought it was cool. :shrug:

I think we're all old and cynical.

We probably also need more information - so here's an actual gameplay video

[hepcat]

It looks half dark souls, half witcher. Definitely different than previous entries though.

[Skinypupy]

It looks half dark souls, half witcher. Definitely different than previous entries though.

I expect those who play DA as a strategic game (a la BG3) will be wildly disappointed.

For me, that whole sequence looked like exactly how I played Dragon Age Origins (twice) as primarily a third person action game. Will be interested to see how the gameplay evolves once more abilities are unlocked, and whether or not you can switch characters (the bit they showed looked like the very first sequence of the game with extremely limited options).

Regarding the graphics, music, art style, cutscenes and general aesthetic, I thought it was spot on for DA. No complaints there whatsoever.

[Carpet_pissr]

Looks like BG IV to me!

[Smoove_B]

If you're looking for a written impression, check here:

Throwing back to an old BioWare staple, you also give your character some backstory, here by selecting a faction to be associated with. The six options even include the likes of Dragon Age standbys like the Grey Wardens, and they'll each unlock unique dialog and a few gameplay perks as you go. Epler says that this faction choice comes in the same spirit as the Origin choice in the original game. "There's definitely intended to be that throwback," he explains. "It's not the same, there's not the unique missions, but it sets the course for your character throughout the rest of the game."

...

The combat's not quite God of War, as the rumors suggested – if anything, it looks a bit more like modern Assassin's Creed in my eyes, but even that's not quite right. It's quite fast and fluid, and looks like a natural evolution of the sort of strategic action combat BioWare's been building for years. I don't know how good that action will feel in practice – this demo was all hands-off, after all – but it looks at least as effective as an action game as any game the studio's done before. You can cancel attacks, execute quick dodges, and build up combos.

...

You can also pause at any time in or out of combat to pop open a tactical command menu, letting you pause the action at any time to choose your abilities and issue orders to your companions. The action fully freezes here, giving you all the time you could want to plan your next move. This screen will also give you the lowdown on the weaknesses of whatever enemy you target. You can't fully escape the action combat if you want a more old-school experience, but there is a way to have a more strategic view if you want to – another way The Veilguard attempts to court multiple kinds of RPG fans.

[hepcat]

It looks half dark souls, half witcher. Definitely different than previous entries though.

I expect those who play DA as a strategic game (a la BG3) will be wildly disappointed.

For me, that whole sequence looked like exactly how I played Dragon Age Origins (twice) as primarily a third person action game. Will be interested to see how the gameplay evolves once more abilities are unlocked, and whether or not you can switch characters (the bit they showed looked like the very first sequence of the game with extremely limited options).

Regarding the graphics, music, art style, cutscenes and general aesthetic, I thought it was spot on for DA. No complaints there whatsoever.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I still think it looks fine. I'm just saying they took a different course than previous entries, it looks like.

[Blackhawk]

It looks like it would have been a great Dragon Age spinoff.

But glowing arrows in the air to show where an enemy's about to shoot so you can dodge, while not even seeing your other characters, let alone having control? It really is Final Fantasy 15/Assassin's Creed. It might be a good game, but it's a near-reboot of the series. Goodbye thinking, hello reaction speed . Hell, I'd compare it to how Fallout changed after Bethesda bought it.

You'd think, after how well BG3 did, that they'd lean into the more toward combat that requires thought rather than combat that requires reflexes.

And, yes, I know that a bunch of people are about to tell me how good they thought it was, or how I'm just old. Good for you - but they still took what appealed most about a favorite series and traded it out for trendy, flashy action gameplay.

Also, when did Varric become a super-serious dwarf with brown hair?

[msteelers]

I remember really liking the original games, but that’s about it. I don’t remember anything about the gameplay or story.

That said, this looks good to me. I saw so many comments about the art style I was prepared for something way worse.

[Blackhawk]

The art in the gameplay wasn't nearly as cartoonish as the character trailer (look at the Pixar Vincent Price upthread.)

The original was actually designed as a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 1/2, and had BG levels of combat and party control.

[Skinypupy]

And, yes, I know that a bunch of people are about to tell me how good they thought it was, or how I'm just old. Good for you - but they still took what appealed most about a favorite series and traded it out for trendy, flashy action gameplay.

What appealed most...to you.

I have a sneaking suspicion that many more people than you think (myself included) played both DA 2 and DA:O as straight-up action games. Hence why they're moving further down that particular path. Hell, I didn't use the top down strategic view one single time in either game. Whether that's the direction most people want out of the DA series or not remains to be seen, I suppose.

I would also be extremely surprised if the ability to switch characters at will wasn't in the final game. I expect that it'll be quite similar to DA:O where you're controlling one character and the others run off adjustable AI until you switch to control them manually.

[Blackhawk]

Yes. I thought that was implied. Some people will absolutely find the twitchy, reflex-based action gameplay superior to planning out positioning and tactics. My personal feelings are that there are hundreds of games on the market that have that kind of action gameplay, and very few that have the more cerebral option. Now there are even fewer.

And I very rarely ever used the top-down view. I'd pause, switch between characters and give orders, the go back to whomever I wanted direct control of until my gambit played out, then pause and repeat. All the depth, just a different camera perspective.

[Pyperkub]

I watched a bit of the gameplay trailer. I should go back and finish DA: Inquisition. I wonder if I can port my PC save over to the xBox...

[Skinypupy]

Yes. I thought that was implied.

Wasn't intended as a dig at you specifically, apologies if it came across that way.

I'm just finding the general internet outcry of "Why are they changing Dragon Age to an action game?!" to be very odd, since that's how many (most?) were already playing it.

I have now beaten the point to death and will move on.

[Blackhawk]

I think the reaction is more that they took playing it that way from being an option to being the only way to play. And honestly, they took that one play style and cranked it way, way up. It's no longer just playing it like a third person RPG, it's a straight up Assassin's Creed / Arkham style game now, with neon effects and your character almost flying around the screen - at least from what we've seen.

Before action gamers and traditional RPG gamers were both welcome. Now the traditional RPG gamers have been brushed aside.

And, to be fair, we're drowning in third person jump/dodge/swing action games. They are everywhere. They've reached the 'open world Far Cry clone' level of saturation. Losing one of the top series that wasn't that style is a bit of a blow to those of us who enjoyed the option for something more thoughtful and deliberate.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, I guess I'm in the weird group with Blackhawk that played DA and DA2 in strategy/pseudo turn based mode. Playing as an action game feels...weird to me, but I guess it was popular?

Maybe that's also why I bounced off Inquisition - did they start leaning into that type of game play more at that point?

Either way, this new version doesn't look anything like how I remember experiencing Dragon Age. I like action RPG combat (SEE: The Witcher), I'm just having a hard time processing what I see a huge change. I guess for others, this is a minor advancement in the series (with respect to how it all works).

[hepcat]

You're all crazy. I remember playing Inquisition like it was Pong.

[Blackhawk]

I've said it before, and I want to reiterate: It looks like a good game. It looks fun. I like reflex based action games. The negative reaction, from me and many, many others, is about the loss of other options, and about how they did it within a series established and widely loved for being something else. Had it been called Dragon Age Adventures: Veilguard, a spinoff rather than a soft reboot, the reaction would have been much more positive.

If you want an analog, it's akin to when they took Rainbow Six, a series of three classic games designed and loved as realistic military simulations, and turned it into a multiplayer action game with GI Joe levels of silliness (people who can run through walls, batman grappling, holograms, etc.) It's not that it's a bad game, it's that the original fans were left in the dust in favor of chasing the latest trend.

[hepcat]

...ah, who am i kidding. I'll play Veilguard like it's Pong too.

[Max Peck]

I watched the first half of the gameplay video and thought it looks fine. It's been so long since I played any of the DA games that I can't really say just how great the differences are, but it's a new game rather than a remake, so I expect them to have made significant changes. I'll buy it when it comes out.

[hepcat]

The one thing I WON'T abide is platforming gameplay. The moment my burly barbarian has to Mario Bros. his way through a level, I'm out.

[Rumpy]

I'm actually surprised the franchise hasn't delved into being an ARPG sooner, either by mailine game or spinoff.

[Isgrimnur]

Dragon Age: The Veilguard won't let you control your companions because you can't handle it: "This is a much higher actions-per-minute game"

Speaking to Edge magazine, game director Corinne Busche explained why Dragon Age: The Veilguard is dropping the party-controlling formula of previous games, even as it drops your companion count from three to two. "On the experiential side, we wanted you to feel like you are Rook," Busche explained. "You're in this world, you're really focused on your actions. We wanted the companions to feel like they, as fully-realized characters, are in control of their own actions. They make their own decisions."

That's a major deviation from the rest of the series, but Busche says there's a simple reason for that - Dragon Age: The Veilguard "is a much higher actions-per-minute game. It is more technically demanding on the player. So when we tried allowing you full control of your companions as well, what we've found is it wasn't actually adding to the experience. In fact, in some ways it was detrimental, given the demanding nature of just controlling your own character."