Donald Trump whisked off stage in Pennsylvania after apparent gunshots rang through the crowd

[Carpet_pissr]

To that end, I think it would be prudent for both Biden and Trump to join together on stage to convey a message promoting de-escalation and unity, though I doubt it'll happen.

Did you see the video?! Dude was screaming ‘FIGHT!’ multiple times as he was being ushered up and off the stage.

[waitingtoconnect]

The issue is the media and social media companies ignoring those of us who want real balance and real information.

They’d much rather have two extreme talking heads or accept Russian or billionaire ad cash to serve us false narratives.

Even the most ardent democrats and Republican voices here react with horror at the idea this could end in civil war. Where I live the hard core maga types don’t want civil war.

Yet the media and tech bros seems to want it with every turn because it helps their bottom line.

We aren’t all that far apart in reality - we need to recognise that.

[em2nought]

Nice try! What ya got next?

Isn’t there a forum out there somewhere where people actually want to interact with you?

You'd miss me.

[Anonymous Bosch]

To that end, I think it would be prudent for both Biden and Trump to join together on stage to convey a message promoting de-escalation and unity, though I doubt it'll happen.

Did you see the video?! Dude was screaming ‘FIGHT!’ multiple times as he was being ushered up and off the stage.

Undoubtedly, a shrewd move by someone incredibly adept at captivating a crowd. Yet, in the midst of a life-and-death situation like that, influenced by adrenaline, it's important not to draw too many conclusions. So it ought not prevent Biden and Trump from ideally uniting together on stage to deliver a message advocating for de-escalation and unity, something our nation is in dire need of.

[Grifman]

To that end, I think it would be prudent for both Biden and Trump to join together on stage to convey a message promoting de-escalation and unity, though I doubt it'll happen.

Did you see the video?! Dude was screaming ‘FIGHT!’ multiple times as he was being ushered up and off the stage.

Undoubtedly, a shrewd move by someone incredibly adept at captivating a crowd. Yet, in the midst of a life-and-death situation like that, influenced by adrenaline, it's important not to draw too many conclusions. So it ought not prevent Biden and Trump from ideally uniting together on stage to deliver a message advocating for de-escalation and unity, something our nation is in dire need of.

Since when has Donald Trump ever put aside anything that would benefit him and place the country ahead of himself? Trump will play this up to his benefit, he'll never get on a platform with Biden to condemn violence. After all this is the guy that is calling January 6 rioters/insurrectionists "patriots". I'd love to be proven wrong, but that's not where I would lay my bets.

[hepcat]

And realistically, who do you think would be the one who would offer to do that, and who would be the one to refuse and claim it would be a trap intended to kill him? I mean, we have mountains of anecdotal evidence to support who i think would be in the latter category.

Trump has made a career out of stoking violence and appealing to the baser aspects of humanity. I’m sorry to see anyone be the victim of violence, but there’s zero chance Trump will do anything but use this tragic event as anything but a tool to get even more people angry and to widen the divide he himself is largely responsible for.

[Skinypupy]

I’ll be truly shocked if Trump isn’t claiming that Biden personally ordered him assassinated by tomorrow.

His minions in the GOP House already are.

[Grifman]

Today in tweets that will not age well…

I don't see any issue with this whatsoever. It was made well before the rally and the shooting.

The one that won't age well is Biden saying that his campaign was going to put Trump in the bullseye. We know what he meant but Republicans are already quoting this. Best any gun type language be dropped in any campaign output.

[Grifman]

I’ll be truly shocked if Trump isn’t claiming that Biden personally ordered him assassinated by tomorrow.

His minions in the GOP House already are.

But he has immunity, right?

[Anonymous Bosch]

To that end, I think it would be prudent for both Biden and Trump to join together on stage to convey a message promoting de-escalation and unity, though I doubt it'll happen.

Did you see the video?! Dude was screaming ‘FIGHT!’ multiple times as he was being ushered up and off the stage.

Undoubtedly, a shrewd move by someone incredibly adept at captivating a crowd. Yet, in the midst of a life-and-death situation like that, influenced by adrenaline, it's important not to draw too many conclusions. So it ought not prevent Biden and Trump from ideally uniting together on stage to deliver a message advocating for de-escalation and unity, something our nation is in dire need of.

Since when has Donald Trump ever put aside anything that would benefit him and place the country ahead of himself? Trump will play this up to his benefit, he'll never get on a platform with Biden to condemn violence. After all this is the guy that is calling January 6 rioters/insurrectionists "patriots". I'd love to be proven wrong, but that's not where I would lay my bets.

As I said, I doubt it'll happen, but I definitely think it should.

[Kraken]

Would take an expert marksman to pull this off, and even then, mighty close for comfort. Seriously, some of y’all are coming off as tinfoil hatters. There’s no way this was staged.

I completely agree with you, but considering the conspiracy theories that Trump amplifies daily, you’ll have to excuse me if I paused for a bit after hearing about this.

Yeah, as more information comes in it supports what it looks like -- a genuine assassination attempt.

Nice try! What ya got next?

Not a single person here has cheered for assassination. Although it will not break my heart if all those Big Macs finally catch up with him next week.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Between the people on the left doing EXACTLY what the people on the right would do and floating ridiculous conspiracy theories, to the people on the right saying this was a Biden-ordered assassination attempt, I'm going to have to take a break from politics for awhile.

People on both sides have become absolutely detached from reality, and nobody can take anything at face value anymore.

Indeed, it's crucial to remember that a deliberate act of political violence has now resulted in the loss of at least one innocent American life. The thought of an innocent American being murdered while exercising their First Amendment right to peaceful assembly is profoundly troubling and utterly abhorrent. So I encourage everyone to keep this in perspective and avoid engaging in conspiracy theories. If nothing else, one would hope this tragic incident can serve as a moment for us to come together and reduce all the divisive political vitriol that's unfortunately become so pervasive in recent years. To that end, I think it would be prudent for both Biden and Trump to join together on stage to convey a message promoting de-escalation and unity, though I doubt it'll happen.

There is absolutely no place for political violence in our democracy. Although we don’t yet know exactly what happened, we should all be relieved that former President Trump wasn’t seriously hurt, and use this moment to recommit ourselves to civility and respect in our politics. Michelle and I are wishing him a quick recovery.

[waitingtoconnect]

What I AM worried about is a crazy MAGA taking a shot at Biden in retaliation. That is entirely possible.

Matyring a president or candidate creates considerable sympathy. Rarely does the assassin get what they wanted. History shows these assassins are usually lone nutters. Conspiracy theories are just that.

Supposing trump died someone perhaps his daughter would have rode his coat tails to victory. You’d have a young vibrant candidate who would speak of the need for change and to honour Trump. Supporters would have been emboldened to do what was necessary to stop the antifa, immigration, muslims, trans people that killed Donald etc. And many would have switched their votes.

In 1964 it was unlikely the democrats could have gotten the presidency - jfks assasination got them another term.

If a maga person kills Biden the country will be mobilised to stop fascism.

This unpleasant incident won’t change the eventual outcome. No one will change their vote unless democrats organised it. Which they wouldn’t.

We need to thank god that this was just an attempt and not a success.

The only assassination that changed history was probably the Rabin assassination in Israel as he was a right winger who knew peace was necessary. Without him his successors were too beholden to the forces that killed him politically to continue.

[waitingtoconnect]

The FBI has identified Thomas Matthew Crooks, 20, of Bethel Park, Pennsylvania, as the subject involved in the assassination attempt of former President Donald Trump on July 13, in Butler, Pennsylvania. This remains an active and ongoing investigation

[Kraken]

The only assassination that changed history was probably the Rabin assassination in Israel as he was a right winger who knew peace was necessary. Without him his successors were too beholden to the forces that killed him politically to continue.

The ghost of Archduke Ferdinand just rattled his chains.

[Default]

Oh, so trump is the only political figure that people set out to kill in the US in the past four years?

C'mon, the choices have never been clearer, and I doubt that the women who are concerned about the Handmaidenizatiin of America are going to suddenly vote for Trump. He's a dick, and people aren't going to change their minds about him now.

[Grifman]

The Secret Service is going to be in for it. Ujd roof the shooter fired from was outside the venue but only 150 yards or so from Trump. Not sure why they did not have a person up there, or that area blocked off or secured.

Oh, and I can’t wait for the inevitable conspiracy theories to begin.

[Unagi]

The only assassination that changed history was probably the Rabin assassination in Israel as he was a right winger who knew peace was necessary. Without him his successors were too beholden to the forces that killed him politically to continue.

The ghost of Archduke Ferdinand just rattled his chains.

Yeah, that was a really really weird MISS

[Unagi]

If trump had died someone else would have taken his place.

No. This is not true.

Name someone that could be Trump 2.0

[Unagi]

I'm so cynical these days that I would 100% not be surprised to learn this was staged.

I am holding on to a hope that it was a Trump loyalist whom TFG shit on. I know it's too much to hope for, but I'm hoping for it anyway. He's shit on a long list of people who have backed him over the years, hurting them very badly.

I've read that he was a registered Republican, but had recently given a small donation to a Dem group.

[Unagi]

Isn't this exactly what the 2nd Amendment protects?

The right for the common citizen to bear arms against the government he finds offensive?


I mean, if not, how is it that the 2nd Amendment would ever really be properly invoked?

[abr]

I've read that he was a registered Republican, but had recently given a small donation to a Dem group.

At age 17, so three years ago.

[LawBeefaroni]

Between the people on the left doing EXACTLY what the people on the right would do and floating ridiculous conspiracy theories, to the people on the right saying this was a Biden-ordered assassination attempt, I'm going to have to take a break from politics for awhile.

People on both sides have become absolutely detached from reality, and nobody can take anything at face value anymore.

Indeed, it's crucial to remember that a deliberate act of political violence has now resulted in the loss of at least one innocent American life. The thought of an innocent American being murdered while exercising their First Amendment right to peaceful assembly is profoundly troubling and utterly abhorrent. So I encourage everyone to keep this in perspective and avoid engaging in conspiracy theories.

And two others are still in critical condition.

If nothing else, one would hope this tragic incident can serve as a moment for us to come together and reduce all the divisive political vitriol that's unfortunately become so pervasive in recent years.

I just don't see it happening. Everyone's echo chamber is just going to magnify divisions.

[hepcat]

To that end, I think it would be prudent for both Biden and Trump to join together on stage to convey a message promoting de-escalation and unity, though I doubt it'll happen.

Did you see the video?! Dude was screaming ‘FIGHT!’ multiple times as he was being ushered up and off the stage.

Undoubtedly, a shrewd move by someone incredibly adept at captivating a crowd. Yet, in the midst of a life-and-death situation like that, influenced by adrenaline, it's important not to draw too many conclusions. So it ought not prevent Biden and Trump from ideally uniting together on stage to deliver a message advocating for de-escalation and unity, something our nation is in dire need of.

Since when has Donald Trump ever put aside anything that would benefit him and place the country ahead of himself? Trump will play this up to his benefit, he'll never get on a platform with Biden to condemn violence. After all this is the guy that is calling January 6 rioters/insurrectionists "patriots". I'd love to be proven wrong, but that's not where I would lay my bets.

As I said, I doubt it'll happen, but I definitely think it should.

I would find hope in that happening. That's for sure. Something I think is sorely needed when it comes to American politics these days.

[hepcat]

If trump had died someone else would have taken his place.

No. This is not true.

Name someone that could be Trump 2.0

Christ, name someone who COULDN'T at this point. His talking points are anger at Dems, stoking fear of immigrants, and a desire to divide America even further. That's literally 90 percent of the GOP. They've been rehearsing as stand-ins for the last 7 years. Trump may have started as an anomaly, but he's become the soul of the GOP since then.

[Unagi]

If trump had died someone else would have taken his place.

No. This is not true.

Name someone that could be Trump 2.0

Christ, name someone who COULDN'T at this point. His talking points are anger at Dems, stoking fear of immigrants, and a desire to divide America even further. That's literally 90 percent of the GOP. They've been rehearsing as stand-ins for the last 7 years. Trump may have started as an anomaly, but he's become the soul of the GOP since then.

MTG and Matt Gaetz don't have the national appeal. There is no successor, and it's a common point that's fairly well established... /shrug - obviously you and I aren't going to argue this one out (please) - but I'm pretty confident more people would agree with me.

[hepcat]

So far I’ve only seen people DISagreeing with you on the idea that Trump’s death wouldn’t result in his becoming a martyr.

Trump is here to stay for the foreseeable future, whether he’s alive or not. I’m fairly sure most people agree with me on that.

[Unagi]

So far I’ve only seen people DISagreeing with you on the idea that Trump’s death wouldn’t result in his becoming a martyr.

Being a martyr is not identical to someone ("Christ, anyone") taking Trump's place.


I accept that his death would have been used to promote 'the cause' (i.e. martyr) but I think "Trumpism" is not going to live long after Trump - and that, again, no-one will or could take Trump's place.

[hepcat]

Yeah, I still disagree with that emphatically and without any reservation. Trumpism is part of the national zeitgeist at this point. His death would only embolden his followers, and he would have dozens of successors in the GOP jockeying for position before his body was even cold. Trumpism will not die with Trump. It's going to be a LONG time before it does...if it ever does. As for replacing Trump, if he was a good politician, or even a great orator, I might agree with you. But he's not. He's a narcissistic demagogue with average intelligence. It's not hard at all to find a substitute for someone like that when the original is gone.

[Unagi]

he would have dozens of successors in the GOP jockeying for position before his body was even cold.

We agree on that.

[EvilHomer3k]

One thing this is going to do is raise money. As soon as my MAGA uncle saw this he said he was donating money and that it was a democratic plot (apparently some "democrat" said they need to defeat trump any way we can so that's his evidence).

[Dogstar]

he would have dozens of successors in the GOP jockeying for position before his body was even cold.

We agree on that.

For what it's worth, I agree with Unagi. Trumpism/MAGA would live on, and while many would jockey for the position, there's no one currently on the GOP national stage with any kind of name recognition that could take the reigns like Trump has. Cotton doesn't have the charm. DeSantis can say the right things, but there's a sense that he lacks the core of what makes Trump Trump. Abbott doesn't have the spirit/chutzpah. Sanders doesn't have the charm either. Noem painted herself out of the picture with the dog story. Gaetz and MTG are caricatures. If this were fifteen years ago, Palin might have. Vance is an empty shirt that says the right things. Tim Scott? Really? Haley? The Trump right distrusts her. Don Jr.?

[hepcat]

"Currently". Remember, Trump wasn't a politician before he was a politician suddenly. I'm confident that if Trump were to die, a new Trump would appear fairly soon afterwards. Trump himself isn't terribly charismatic, intelligent or well spoken. He just knows how to hammer on a scapegoat and demonize his enemies. Any 4 year old knows how to do that. Since Trump has proven it's the path to success in the GOP nowadays, I don't think it would be hard for someone to figure that out and step into his shoes.

I USED to believe that Trump was a one off and that the country would heal after he was gone. Right now, I just don't.

One thing this is going to do is raise money. As soon as my MAGA uncle saw this he said he was donating money and that it was a democratic plot (apparently some "democrat" said they need to defeat trump any way we can so that's his evidence).

My extreme right wing coworker is posting on facebook about how it's suspicious that the shooter was able to get that close, which proves in his mind that someone in Washington had to have to something to do with it. I'll give you one guess as to who that someone is.

[Newcastle]

So far I’ve only seen people DISagreeing with you on the idea that Trump’s death wouldn’t result in his becoming a martyr.

Being a martyr is not identical to someone ("Christ, anyone") taking Trump's place.


I accept that his death would have been used to promote 'the cause' (i.e. martyr) but I think "Trumpism" is not going to live long after Trump - and that, again, no-one will or could take Trump's place.

I disagree in general with your mindset Mr. Unagi and align my thinkign more w/ Hepcat [ reasonable minds can disagree of course]. I think Trump is more a symptom of the disease rather than the cause. I think he's a great stir the pot person, but that's his shtick. Yes no one has his broad appeal right now, but that doesn't mean it can't be manufactured w/ the right - wing sound machine. Look at how Fox has been able to stir the pot for these last three decades. Trump is a product of that. Take Vivek R. he could replace trump, he was parroting many of his lines. JD Vance springs to mind as another that could replace him. Desantis and his culture wars in Florida could resonate.

While i agree that Trump is a unique soft and squish snowflake [ just had to write that]...he's replaceable. Trump's strength is always be on Offense, never go on defense. And if the offense fails...dazzle them with your bullshit [ look at the weird shit he pulled out during the debate]. That can be replicated. For better or worse, we are going to deal with the MAGA movement after Trump is gone. That's why its vital that this MAGA movement is soundly defeated at the ballot box. So yeah Trump is unique in a sense, but he's replaceable.

[YellowKing]

In regards to whether this generates sympathy (and thus, somehow, votes) for Trump, I disagree. It will fire up his base, and increased turnout may be a factor. But I don't see many fence-sitters switching to Trump because he got shot. In fact, I think you may see the opposite. Trump will undoubtedly use this attempt to say multiple stupid things and make implications that simply aren't true, and I think that's going to turn off many moderates and independents.

In regards to Trump being replaced, I don't think many people have the combination of mental illness and charisma it would take to truly emulate Trump. Trumpism will still exist when Trump is gone, but in a diminished form. You can see how ineffective his underlings have been. It doesn't mean a Trump 2.0 couldn't arise, but I don't think it's going to be as easy as simply swapping out leaders. Trump's a cult leader, and you can't just swap those out.

[hepcat]

You don't have to replace the person in a cult when they die, you just have to have someone assume a position to speak FOR them. The end result is the same.

[Unagi]

Serious question: can anyone name a cult, that isn't a religion, that ever survived the loss of its leader?

[hepcat]

When a cult leader dies, they like to take everyone else with them.

But yes, there are.

I also think you underestimate Trump’s sway over the GOP and so many Americans by downplaying his influence as being akin to a cult. I think it’s grown beyond that.

[Newcastle]

Serious question: can anyone name a cult, that isn't a religion, that ever survived the loss of its leader?

If Trump would have died yesterday...do you think the average MAGA supporter who is angry about the diversity in the country, who hates "libs", who thinks migrants are here to take their jobs and nab welfare benefits, and heck the 2025 movement proponents ...do you really think they are just going to stop? They will still be outraged next week, next month, etc. The movement will go on. Trump has been an extremely effective person at coalescing this angst, but it can be replicated. This is a long war of ideas.

[Unagi]

That's why its vital that this MAGA movement is soundly defeated at the ballot box.

While I agree that the only meaningful end to the MAGA movement is by way of voting it into obscurity, you make it sound like a one-and-done (even if that's not your meaning, which I'm sure it isn't).
It will not be 'soundly' defeated in 2024. We will be lucky if we manage to simply defeat it.


I guess I'm just not as cynical as you and Hepcat on the 'Trump is replaceable' subject (but I can't really argue against severe cynicism, so I hear ya all). I think he is a unique (enough) situation that will not be repeated. I think Trump cast a spell on a group of people and that cocktail cannot be remixed by somoen else. I imagine every Republican is jealous of his historically unimaginable control on The Party and that, should Trump be removed, they would tear one another to pieces before they would (try to) anoint just one of themselves with that power (see: GOP Congress)