Donald Trump whisked off stage in Pennsylvania after apparent gunshots rang through the crowd

[Unagi]

As for Archduke Ferdinand: history didn’t change with him - Austria Hungary war hawks wanted war with Serbia and would have gotten their wish one way or another. America didn’t die with Lincoln, India didn’t die with Gandhi.

Yeah, I meant to come back and give you credit for your comment as I erroneously read it wrong at first. You were not saying that other assassinations were not as historically defining or significant - just that they didn't get the results they were after or the results they got were not part of the main "plan".

[Kraken]

If there's any result of this I might be willing to entertain, it might be increased Republican turnout. But even then, we're speculating on this impacting turnout four months away, when the public and news cycles have notoriously short memories.

I wonder if it might lead to reduced Dem turnout instead. Republicans are already planning to field "election monitors" to intimidate voters at the polls (we all know who they'll single out for "monitoring"). They're also working to restrict or eliminate absentee voting and ballot drop-offs to force voters to show up in person. If I lived in a red or purple state I sure wouldn't vote in person if I expected to encounter armed MAGAts, especially if dear leader is spouting violent rhetoric...as he all but certainly will do.

If we don't let them intimidate us before the fact, we win.

That's how it works. It's how it always works.

Our attitude needs to be "Sorry to hear about the bullets, but fuck Trump and fuck MAGA."

Fair enough. It's all hypothetical for me, in my safe blue state with my mail-in ballot.

[hepcat]

It’s even more ironic that in a country that loves conspiracy that there actually isn’t any in this case.

Not sure why you think that. There are. And we’ll see more in the days to come. The GOP is a group that loves conspiracy theories in which they’re the innocent victims of evil liberals.

Edit: ah, you didn’t say conspiracy theories, just conspiracy. Never mind.

[WYBaugh]

Just reading that the cult is blaming the media for the shooting. Trump Jr called out the media for comparing Trump to Hitler.

[Kraken]

Just reading that the cult is blaming the media for the shooting. Trump Jr called out the media for comparing Trump to Hitler.

They'd have a point if they weren't openly working to install a fascist dictatorship.

The Boston Globe happened to have a reporter on the scene. Here's what he wrote on today's front page:

About 25 minutes before former president Donald Trump took the stage at a county fairground an hour north of Pittsburgh, my eyes kept darting to two places.

First, there was an elderly woman to whom I had just given water; heat strokes were occurring frequently, and medical professionals were doing their best to manage them. Second, over her shoulder I noticed movement on the roof of what appeared to be a barn behind the stage.

Two US Secret Service agents were urgently using large military-green binoculars to scan an area away from the crowd. They weren’t looking in any other direction. Then, each agent pointed what appeared to be sniper rifles in that same direction. It was also the direction of the entrance road, which most of the thousands of rally attendees had taken.

Assuming it was also the road that Trump’s motorcade would take, I didn’t think much of it. I figured their urgency was just part of tracking the motorcade per protocol.

The security precautions were similar to all other Trump rallies I have attended since he received Secret Service protection in 2016. There was a line of magnetometers that swiftly checked people. It felt like entering Fenway Park for a Red Sox game, except with armed Secret Service agents. Nearly all of the crowd were warned not to bring any bags. I was reminded of this point by a woman I paid to park closer to the event.

Then, 30 minutes after I noticed the Secret Service agents’ activity and about six minutes into Trump’s speech, there was a loud popping noise.

Were those shots? I grew up with guns in the Midwest, so I’m familiar with the sound. Maybe it was fireworks or something?

When I looked up, the same agents were shooting in the same direction their guns had been pointed all along. I knew they were shooting because I could see smoke from their guns.

I should note, this is a report based on my firsthand experience at the rally and the immediate aftermath, some details I describe may change as new facts emerge.

I was standing directly in front of an ad hoc press riser where many of the television cameras capturing the event were positioned.

Earlier, it had been my refuge against the 91-degree heat and direct sunshine. I felt lucky to be able to sit under the steel makeshift riser for shade and the occasional breeze.

The Globe had sent me to cover the event and write a story that would serve as a “curtain riser” ahead of the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee.

I had another reason for being in the area. I was going to fly home with my only child, who is 9 and had just spent a week away in summer bliss with his cousins and aunt. It was the first time my wife and I had been without him since he was 2. I missed him tremendously, as all parents can understand.

But after seeing the smoke rise from the agents’ guns on the roof, my eyes caught something to the right of the stage. It appeared to be either a firehose or gas from law enforcement, possibly meant as a distraction.

But, wait, where was Trump? In those approximate 10 seconds, I didn’t know if Trump had been shot.

It felt like the agents had seen something they didn’t like and were proactive about it. I didn’t hear any incoming fire or see anyone go down.

I had a clear view of the stage, but at that moment, I was typing up what Trump was saying. When I looked at the podium again, the agents appeared to have Trump on the ground, protecting him. Then other agents were on the stage.

Seconds later, Trump was up and pumping his fist to the crowd, mouthing something I couldn’t make out. Was that blood on his right ear or just his red MAGA hat? I kept staring at that ear. I was maybe 40 yards away. It definitely looked like blood. It was the first time I considered the possibility that Trump may have been hit.

The crowd was in shock. Most people crouched down, trying to take cover, although it was just an open field with fences like any county fairground.

After Trump had been escorted to his car and people sensed the rally was over and they were safe, the crowd turned on the media.

The crowd was angry. Middle fingers were everywhere. They asked the press if they were happy and blamed the media.

“You did this,” they said to reporters.

I wasn’t sure of their rationale for such a statement, but they were looking for someone to blame. For a moment, it felt like a growing mob. I was separated by a temporary steel fence, but that wouldn’t help much if things turned violent.

That was my cue. I took off my press credentials, unplugged my equipment, and packed everything into my backpack.

My first text wasn’t to my editor.

It was to my family, mainly to let my son and wife know I was OK.

Of course trump has been inciting his followers against the press since day one. They were well-primed. The Fourth Estate is a pillar of successful democracy, and therefore must be silenced. That's going to be very high on the new government's agenda.

[LawBeefaroni]

It should be noted that PA is an open carry state. The shooter was entirely in his rights to be armed as he was as long as he was outside the venue.

Typically the secret service will set up a gun free zone around VIPs. That's why NRA conventions have been gun free when GOP luminaries give gun speeches.

Would be surprised of they didn't set up a gun free permiter around the event. Certainly long-gun free.

[Isgrimnur]

NRA conventions have been gun free because the venues that host them have rules against possessing guns on-site.

[Grifman]

It should be noted that PA is an open carry state. The shooter was entirely in his rights to be armed as he was as long as he was outside the venue.

Typically the secret service will set up a gun free zone around VIPs. That's why NRA conventions have been gun free when GOP luminaries give gun speeches.

Would be surprised of they didn't set up a gun free permiter around the event. Certainly long-gun free.

The gun free zone is the event venue itself where they have barricades/fencing/metal detectors. There's no GFZ outside of that because that would be impossible unless you expanded your fencing and metal detectors.

[em2nought]

The Boston Globe happened to have a reporter on the scene.

About 25 minutes before former president Donald Trump took the stage at a county fairground an hour north of Pittsburgh, my eyes kept darting to two places.

First, there was an elderly woman to whom I had just given water; heat strokes were occurring frequently, and medical professionals were doing their best to manage them. Second, over her shoulder I noticed movement on the roof of what appeared to be a barn behind the stage.

Two US Secret Service agents were urgently using large military-green binoculars to scan an area away from the crowd. They weren’t looking in any other direction. Then, each agent pointed what appeared to be sniper rifles in that same direction. It was also the direction of the entrance road, which most of the thousands of rally attendees had taken.

Assuming it was also the road that Trump’s motorcade would take, I didn’t think much of it. I figured their urgency was just part of tracking the motorcade per protocol.

Then, 30 minutes after I noticed the Secret Service agents’ activity and about six minutes into Trump’s speech, there was a loud popping noise.

Were those shots? I grew up with guns in the Midwest, so I’m familiar with the sound. Maybe it was fireworks or something?

When I looked up, the same agents were shooting in the same direction their guns had been pointed all along. I knew they were shooting because I could see smoke from their guns.

Certainly sounds suspicious to me.

[em2nought]

Local officer tried to stop gunman on rooftop, but was unable to engage him, Butler County sheriff says

https://www.yahoo.com/news/local-office ... 31312.html

[waitingtoconnect]

The man’s father was a libertarian, his mother a Democrat and he was a registered Republican. His classmates describe him as being right leaning and conservative.

He was a loner and a loser with no hope of college or a better life who wanted to go out on a blaze of glory in a mass shooting. He was talented academically but like many couldn’t afford college which must have made him bitter.

There is no conspiracy. There is no brainwashing as others have suggested in other forums. His pattern fits the same pattern as other mass shooters.

White, lonley, male obsessed with guns who has zero prospects who woefully under prepares for the actual event but given modern weapons has enough firepower to kill and hurt dozens of people.

[LawBeefaroni]

NRA conventions have been gun free because the venues that host them have rules against possessing guns on-site.

Not exactly. Several venues have allowed carry. For example, Dallas wasn't gun free except when Trump was there. When he was there, Secret Service made it gun free.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 580516002/

There will be no "good guys with guns" in the crowd when President Trump speaks Friday at the National Rifle Association's annual meeting in Dallas, in compliance with the orders of the Secret Service.

"Due to the attendance of the President and Vice President of the United States, the U.S. Secret Service will be responsible for event security at the NRA-ILA Leadership Forum," the NRA said in a disclaimer on its site. "As a result, firearms and firearm accessories, knives or weapons of any kind will be prohibited in the forum prior to and during his attendance."


....

After Trump and Pence leave, "NRA rules apply and people will be permitted to carry," the group said in a statement.

[LawBeefaroni]

It should be noted that PA is an open carry state. The shooter was entirely in his rights to be armed as he was as long as he was outside the venue.

Typically the secret service will set up a gun free zone around VIPs. That's why NRA conventions have been gun free when GOP luminaries give gun speeches.

Would be surprised of they didn't set up a gun free permiter around the event. Certainly long-gun free.

The gun free zone is the event venue itself where they have barricades/fencing/metal detectors. There's no GFZ outside of that because that would be impossible unless you expanded your fencing and metal detectors.

They can visually identify long guns outside the venue and intervene.

[waitingtoconnect]

Can I get an eye roll - I mean he calls them incompetent DEI crazed loons eager to have the (former) president killed and then guys who loc trump just doing their best he shoots with all the time.

I mean… :eyeroll:

First of all he wasn’t a sniper as he was using iron sights on a AR15. About the only thing he said that made sense is that it was an easy shot.

A half competent marksman could easily kill trump from 100-150 yards with the clear line of sight he had. However iron sights if not configured right or with the right training could have limited his effective accuracy to as low as 50 yards.

The United States Marine Corps used to regularly take people who had never fired a rifle in their lives and, at the end of three weeks have them striking targets out to 500 yards with nothing more than an M16A2 and a pair of iron sights.

He himself says he could train anyone to take the shot in a matter of hours.

Thank god he was a useless shot else he could have killed trump and so many more besides. A friend who grew up on a farm – his mother could shoot rabbits from 200 yards.

I mean there is no conspiracy. Why get the worst shot in the world to kill trump? It’s not because he was one of hunter bidens coke buddies. the truth is a lone wolf nutter.

[LawBeefaroni]

Trump's odds of a 2024 victory are up significantly on betting sites.

US Presidential Election 2024 Winner:
Donald Trump Sr.-280
Joe Biden+400

DJT is up 50% pre-market.
Indexes are all up pre-market.

So money flow is looking at him as the heavy favorite.

I think the thing here is that even if it doesn't change anyone's vote, it motivates Trump-is-OK voters who otherwise wouldn't vote. Sure, there is still a lot of time until November but donations and momentum are favoring Trump now.

First of all he wasn’t a sniper as he was using iron sights on a AR15. About the only thing he said that made sense is that it was an easy shot.

A half competent marksman could easily kill trump from 100-150m with the clear line of sight he had. However iron sights if not configured right or with the right training could have limited his effective accuracy to as low as 50m.

The United States Marine Corps used to regularly take people who had never fired a rifle in their lives and, at the end of three weeks have them striking targets out to 500 yards with nothing more than an M16A2 and a pair of iron sights.

Thank god he was a useless shot else he could have killed trump and so many more besides. A friend who grew up on a farm – his mother could shoot rabbits from 200m.

Also he was probably aiming for Trump's head. Trained snipers aim for center of mass (despite what movies and video games would tell you). They also don't use 5.56/.223. They use .308 or similar that will defeat standard ballistic vests and get a kill center of mass. And won't be influenced as much by atmospheric conditions. Even at 150M all these things matter.

Also, this may have been his plan B. Some witnesses said that he was milling around outside the security checkpoint and acting suspiciously. He may have intended to get in but decided against when he saw the measures in place.

[waitingtoconnect]

Well between this and Biden age meaning Democrat donors are ditching him I’d say trump has a 90% chance of winning right now. I can’t see trump winning the popular vote but the electoral college easy.

The piece where bill mayer and Jerry Seinfeld are saying they don’t care if trump wins is doing the rounds at the moment… and the convictions will be overturned. I’m pretty sure fscism is now on the cards - from what I can see Hollywood is switching sides or going full anti Biden, corporations are ditching DEI programs.. and people are now saying women in the workplace is bad because a female service agent was too short.. it’s not good.

[hepcat]

Well between this and Biden age meaning Democrat donors are ditching him I’d say trump has a 90% chance of winning right now. I can’t see trump winning the popular vote but the electoral college easy.

The piece where bill mayer and Jerry Seinfeld are saying they don’t care if trump wins is doing the rounds at the moment… and the convictions will be overturned. I’m pretty sure fscism is now on the cards - from what I can see Hollywood is switching sides or going full anti Biden, corporations are ditching DEI programs.. and people are now saying women in the workplace is bad because a female service agent was too short.. it’s not good.

I think you're going to 11 when it's really more like a 6. The women in the workplace complaint is over a very specific job and situation, not a condemnation of all women in the workplace. I don't see that happening under Trump...or anyone I can think of.

The DEI thing is troubling, but I also see a lot of push back from various areas to getting rid of it entirely.

And I wouldn't say Hollywood is "switching sides". They're still VERY heavily democrat. They're just turning away from Biden, who they feel can't beat Trump due to his age, and looking for someone else.

[em2nought]

After this, I wonder what odds they give of President Trump making it to November 5th?

[hepcat]

President Trump? ...oooohhhhh....you mean FORMER President Trump.

I don't know, but I think the odds of FORMER President Trump getting many others killed in some form of retribution from his crazed worshipers has skyrocketed. I mean, he IS the one that suggested his followers shoot Hillary Clinton at one point, joked about the attempted murder of Nancy Pelosi's husband and tried to overthrow the country when he lost the last election.

[YellowKing]

By former President Trump, are you referring to convicted felon and adjudicated rapist, accused of multiple sexual assaults and rape of a 12-year old Mr. Trump? Just trying to get my facts straight, as I'm bad with names.

I tell you, the calls to "turn the temperature down" from the same people who are wearing AR-15 pins and inciting violence at every opportunity is maddening. Not so fun when it happens to one of your own, is it? "Thoughts and prayers."

[LordMortis]

Perhaps Biden just needs to tell these loons to stand down and stand by.

[em2nought]

President Trump? ...oooohhhhh....you mean FORMER President Trump.

I don't know, but I think the odds of FORMER President Trump getting many others killed in some form of retribution from his crazed worshipers has skyrocketed.

C'mon man! My mates are too dumb to even find those training camps in the hills that Maxine was ranting about. I can't find any hills period.

President Trump better hire himself some Mossad agents.

[hepcat]

I would think he already has a pretty extensive Spetsnaz detail assigned to him by his boss.

[Zarathud]

Hollywood is trying to cast someone who looks the part.

When you threaten people repeatedly, sometimes they poke back. If only to prove to themselves that they’re not helpless.

[The Meal]

I believe in the betting markets, so that’s particularly unpleasant news. But certain Trump assets have also had periods of inexplicable valuation on the open markets, so maybe I need some sizable grains of salt before I truly believe.

What I’ve seen from Uncle Joe’s response is an opportunity to look presidential. His stock would seem to improve when contrasted to possible (probable?) responses we’ll see out of Milwaukee this week.

I would agree with Bosch about what I’d like to see with regards to the general political discourse moving forward, but if the two candidates move in opposite directions here, it’s another opportunity for differentiation (and that’s not a bad thing for the old-timer who’s statistically behind).

[YellowKing]

Trump supposedly rewrote his entire RNC speech and is going to be calling for "unity," but I'll believe it when I see it. If he does somehow get up there and tone down the vitriol and look vaguely presidential and sympathetic, we're probably fucked. It's going to be a complete sham, and as soon as he gets back in office it will be political persecution as usual.

I'm sure the media will be eager to seize on any opportunity to showcase Trump "having a change of heart" after his close brush with death. They'll laud his "pivot" while Biden, who has been acting like a human being the entire time, will be left in the shadows.

[Smoove_B]

I'm sure it'll be a "both sides are bad" and "stand back and stand by" message. He's come this far; he's not turning back now.

*Unless* the brush with death really rattled him, but I'm guessing he's surrounded by enough sycophants to keep him thinking about the bigger picture and not the immediate aftermath.

[Exodor]

*Unless* the brush with death really rattled him, but I'm guessing he's surrounded by enough sycophants to keep him thinking about the bigger picture and not the immediate aftermath.

He's got somewhat competent campaign managers around him this time so I wouldn't be surprised if his speech is less grievance and a little more unity than usual. He'll go right back to his usual bile during his events but no one other than the MAGA faithful pay attention to those anyway.

[hepcat]

Trump is only able to view himself as a victim of forces striving to tamp down his greatness. I have zero expectations that his speech at the RNC won't suddenly veer off into a list of grievances against himself (as stated in the third person, as usual)...if he doesn't actually start and finish with that.

[LawBeefaroni]

I'm sure the media will be eager to seize on any opportunity to showcase Trump "having a change of heart" after his close brush with death. They'll laud his "pivot" while Biden, who has been acting like a human being the entire time, will be left in the shadows.

Of course they will. Remember when he went a day or two in office without doing/saying something completely insane? The press would say he was becoming "Presidential."

He'll undoubtedly have an appropriate speech prepared for him and he'll probably manage to stick to 60% of it. He'll be looking absolutely "Presidential".

[Daehawk]

He will say he got shot in the head...or totally lie and say the head the chest and heart but he walked away.

[em2nought]

I would think he already has a pretty extensive Spetsnaz detail assigned to him by his boss.

Those guys can't even deal with a few corrupt Ukrainians, the grandchildren of "actual" nazis.

[hepcat]

Hey, that's Trump's friend's you're insulting there, pal!

Oh, right....that was probably confusing. I meant Russians, not Nazis.

But I guess a case could be made for both.

[waitingtoconnect]

Well between this and Biden age meaning Democrat donors are ditching him I’d say trump has a 90% chance of winning right now. I can’t see trump winning the popular vote but the electoral college easy.

The piece where bill mayer and Jerry Seinfeld are saying they don’t care if trump wins is doing the rounds at the moment… and the convictions will be overturned. I’m pretty sure fscism is now on the cards - from what I can see Hollywood is switching sides or going full anti Biden, corporations are ditching DEI programs.. and people are now saying women in the workplace is bad because a female service agent was too short.. it’s not good.

I think you're going to 11 when it's really more like a 6. The women in the workplace complaint is over a very specific job and situation, not a condemnation of all women in the workplace. I don't see that happening under Trump...or anyone I can think of.

The DEI thing is troubling, but I also see a lot of push back from various areas to getting rid of it entirely.

And I wouldn't say Hollywood is "switching sides". They're still VERY heavily democrat. They're just turning away from Biden, who they feel can't beat Trump due to his age, and looking for someone else.

Yeah you may be right but I did just see the so called manosphere blowing up over this before I wrote it:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/technol ... r-BB1pZlvG

When they say diversity maga types mean women in the workplace as much minorities or sexual preferences. The maga sphere is making that clear.

My feeling is right now people know Project 2025 is inevitable and like the Weimar Germans are switching sides. And the worst maga are the converts because they will do everything to prove their “loyalty”. Like Jd Vance has.

As for Hollywood I remember the Iraq war - they all booed Michael Moore even though many of them hated the idea of the conflict.

Liberals need to get their act together. Replace Biden don’t replace Biden - but they need to Come together now. Right now they just look they are losing all the time. As a student of the rise of Nazi germany if that happens people desert democracy because they want to save their own hides.

[Smoove_B]

Story gets more bizarre and we still don't know much about the shooter:

Channel 11 News uncovered dramatic new details Monday in the moments leading up to the assassination attempt on former president Donald Trump. According to multiple law enforcement sources, Thomas Crooks was spotted by law enforcement on a roof nearly 30 minutes before shots were fired that injured Trump, killed a former fire chief and injured two others in the crowd.

(emphasis added)

Also, it's still odd that no official statement about TFG health has been made, right? Like comments from a doctor or a medical team that evaluated him?

[gilraen]

Also, it's still odd that no official statement about TFG health has been made, right? Like comments from a doctor or a medical team that evaluated him?

Meh...it was a literal scratch, what's there to report? Considering someone was killed and a couple of people critically injured, any comments besides the earlier "he's fine" would be out of place.

[Holman]

Story gets more bizarre and we still don't know much about the shooter:

Channel 11 News uncovered dramatic new details Monday in the moments leading up to the assassination attempt on former president Donald Trump. According to multiple law enforcement sources, Thomas Crooks was spotted by law enforcement on a roof nearly 30 minutes before shots were fired that injured Trump, killed a former fire chief and injured two others in the crowd.

(emphasis added)

Also, it's still odd that no official statement about TFG health has been made, right? Like comments from a doctor or a medical team that evaluated him?

Has it been confirmed whether he was actually hit by a bullet as opposed to shards of a teleprompter?

My understanding is that an AR-15 round at this range (even with this lucky an angle) would tear away part of the ear rather than just leaving a cut.

[Zaxxon]

He went golfing this am, right? That’s as good a health report as any we’d get.

[Holman]

He went golfing this am, right? That’s as good a health report as any we’d get.

Well, I'm glad he didn't waste time visiting with families of those killed or wounded. Those golf balls aren't going to cheat themselves.

[Smoove_B]

Well, I'm glad he didn't waste time visiting with families of those killed or wounded. Those golf balls aren't going to cheat themselves.

I saw quotes from an article, but can't find the link - it was an interview with the wife of the fire fighter that was killed. Basically the wife said that President Biden phoned her, but she didn't take the call because her husband was Republican and she didn't think he would like her to speak with him. She then added that she didn't yet hear from Trump but that she would be voting for him.

It's an absolute death cult.

Has it been confirmed whether he was actually hit by a bullet as opposed to shards of a teleprompter?

That's the kind of thing I'd expect in a statement from the attending physician and/or the Secret Service - a confirmation of what happened, the injuries were non-life threatening and caused by glass, etc... and that he was stitched up and released without further issues. I guess given his profile I was expecting there would be some type of official statement. But we're in the upside down so maybe not.