NCAA Football 2024 season

[Pyperkub]

Sign stealing still biting Michigan - Moore

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... stigation/

Michigan coach Sherrone Moore could be penalized as the NCAA prepares to release its notice of allegations against the program into an alleged sign-stealing scheme. Michigan received a draft of the NOA this past week, CBS Sports' Dennis Dodd confirms, in which Moore is accused of deleting more than 50 text message exchanges between himself and ex-Wolvines staffer Connor Stalions, who is at the center of the scandal.

[Unagi]

[Scuzz]

Michigan is such a dirty program.

[Pyperkub]

Well, it did turn out pretty well for them last year, so I wouldn't fret much...

[ImLawBoy]

From what I've read, Moore deleted the messages when the news first broke. They later recovered the messages and turned them over to the NCAA. I'm reading that there's nothing in the messages that would indicate Moore had any knowledge of Stalions's scheme - a classic case of the cover up being worse than the crime. Assuming all that's accurate, I've heard we're looking at a 1 game suspension and a 1 year show cause (which is moot if he doesn't plan on moving jobs during that year). Of course, things might have changed since I last looked at this yesterday.

Stupid of Moore to do that, and bad job if Michigan is not trying to drill into athletic staff that you never try to delete/hide your records if an investigation is coming up.

[ImLawBoy]

Biased source, but the quotes are key.

From Pete Thamel, who has been ESPN's lead on this and been the recipient of the NCAA leaks all along (and, if you believe online Michigan, is in OSU's back pocket):

“So I would think Sherrone Moore faces a short suspension. If you look at the history of this stuff at the maximum to go through sort of the matrix of what could happen to Michigan in this Greeny, I don’t think they’re going to have any type of postseason ban,” Thamel told Mike Greenberg. “I don’t think, looking at history and looking at past precedent in this, there’s going to be any type of retroactive anything to what they’ve already won and accomplished. Their accomplishments are safe. There’s no players eligibility at stake in this, so for Moore, who’s sort of become the face of this notice, because the other coaches involved have all gone to the NFL, I would think we will find out in the upcoming weeks and months, depending on how long this takes to litigate, if he does end up getting some type of suspension.”

From Paul Finebaum, notoriously pro-SEC and anti-Michigan (in particular anti-Harbaugh) radio host:

“This is all a continuation of a long, drawn out story that in many people’s eyes, probably other than the NCAA, is over,” Finebaum said. “Let’s not forget that Charlie Baker, the president the NCAA — and this may sound out of context, because it probably is — but after Michigan won the national championship, he said they won fair and square. I remember that, and I think a lot of lawyers are going to remember that too, if this case goes very far and puts Michigan in the crosshairs. I think the reporting on this by Pete is fantastic, and I’m not I’m not trying to minimize it, but the but the point is that in the big picture of college athletics, nobody respects the NCAA. Nobody really cares about the NCAA. And there are a team of lawyers ready to drag this out and to threaten the NCAA if they dare do anything to Michigan other than a slap on the wrist.”

[Unagi]

lovely.

"And there are a team of lawyers ready to drag this out and to threaten the NCAA if they dare do anything to Michigan other than a slap on the wrist."

[ImLawBoy]

lovely.

"And there are a team of lawyers ready to drag this out and to threaten the NCAA if they dare do anything to Michigan other than a slap on the wrist."

Right. Just like for any other big school that is being targeted for this type of thing.

[Unagi]

Why would they be targeted?

[ImLawBoy]

Why would they be targeted?

Say what you mean. I'm not going to play guessing games.

[Scuzz]

Why would they be targeted?

Say what you mean. I'm not going to play guessing games.

Why don’t you say what you meant by “targeted”?

And I was being snarky above.

[ImLawBoy]

Why would they be targeted?

Say what you mean. I'm not going to play guessing games.

Why don’t you say what you meant by “targeted”?

And I was being snarky above.

Were you being snarky here? Because I really don't understand the confusion around the word "targeted" here. Michigan is the target of an NCAA investigation, and it has been exhaustively discussed on these forums by largely this same group of people. Not sure why I would need to rehash all of that here.

[Unagi]

I apologize, my bad, it seemed like you meant targeted beyond the simple definition you just gave. It sounded more like you were using it in the way that basically means unfairly targeted.

[Pyperkub]

Yeah, if Moore is penalized, I do believe it will be less than what Harbaugh got.

[Scuzz]

I apologize, my bad, it seemed like you meant targeted beyond the simple definition you just gave. It sounded more like you were using it in the way that basically means unfairly targeted.

That was my impression as well. It sounded like you thought they had a vendetta against Michigan.

[Pyperkub]

I apologize, my bad, it seemed like you meant targeted beyond the simple definition you just gave. It sounded more like you were using it in the way that basically means unfairly targeted.

That was my impression as well. It sounded like you thought they had a vendetta against Michigan.

Well, The "online sources" do think that it is an Ohio St plot

[ImLawBoy]

I apologize, my bad, it seemed like you meant targeted beyond the simple definition you just gave. It sounded more like you were using it in the way that basically means unfairly targeted.

That was my impression as well. It sounded like you thought they had a vendetta against Michigan.

Yeah, if meant "unfairly targeted", I would have said that. I think I've been pretty consistent over the last year or so that (1) if Michigan broke the rules, they should be punished; (2) Michigan broke the rules (i.e., advanced in-person scouting - but not sign stealing, which is not against the rules); (3) punishment should be light for the known violations; and (4) this whole thing is way overblown. I've also been willing to address new facts as they come out, and I think I've done so fairly while not trying to hide my personal bias.

It'd be nice to get some benefit of the doubt around here. ;p

I apologize, my bad, it seemed like you meant targeted beyond the simple definition you just gave. It sounded more like you were using it in the way that basically means unfairly targeted.

That was my impression as well. It sounded like you thought they had a vendetta against Michigan.

Well, The "online sources" do think that it is an Ohio St plot

Oh, yeah. They think Thamel is completely in the bag for OSU, that he highlights issues that are bad for Michigan and ignores issues that are bad for OSU, and that he basically willed this relatively minor violation into a huge scandal. While he does clearly have connections at OSU and gets info from there dating back to Urban Meyer days, and you can certainly question some of his coverage choices (why did he leave it for others at ESPN to report that OSU also had Michigan's signals and shared them with competitors?), I think it's probably unfair to say that OSU is directing him. They're just really, really happy with the work he's doing.

FWIW, apparently there's a documentary episode of some Netflix series called "Untold" that is coming out soon that focuses on Connor Stalions. Unsure if it's casting him in a good light or making him a villain.

[Skinypupy]

Things continue to go really well under Deion in Colorado.

Some players aren't suited for "Prime Time," or at least that's what the CU staff wants everyone to believe. But conversations with those who've left Boulder reveals the true nature of the culture within the Buffaloes program. A few former players have spoken anonymously to Athlon, fearing retaliation, if they went on the record.

"It's like a real-life Grand Theft Auto video game," one former player said. "There are many distractions with fights, guns, and money floating around. The environment is unlike any I’ve come from before."

Another former player went deeper into the violent incidents within CU's football program, recounting three separate alleged occurrences over the past year, each unfathomable in any normal locker room. This insight sheds light on what happened with former five-star talent Cormani McClain and why his experience in Boulder was negative.

"Cormani was taking a lot of heat from everyone," said the former player. "At the same time Coach Prime was saying he was in the doghouse and needed to improve, Cormani was getting bullied by Shilo (Sanders). After the Oregon State game, Shilo slapped him several times, which left Cormani screaming 'I'm going to kill you' repeatedly. After that, you could tell he wasn’t mentally there. It’s hard when the coaches you trust are calling you derogatory names on the practice field."

This violence often seemed to come from personal vendettas, but not always. Jordan Seaton, another five-star recruit, was allegedly bullied into "proving his manhood" and picked to fight former CU lineman Savion Washington. In April, the two were said to have exchanged blows, leaving both bloody. Witnesses described it as "two bears scrapping for food."

While bullying was also a common theme, there was another alleged incident involving a gambling debt between backup QB Colton Allen and wide receiver Kaleb Mathis. Days after the Seaton-Washington melee, the son of Kevin Mathis, who's CU's defensive back coach, was asked to pay Allen over a gambling debt in excess of $10,000, according to a former CU player. When Mathis refused, he allegedly proceeded to punch Allen repeatedly in the locker room, with players and coaches witnessing the assault. Allen allegedly refused to discuss the matter, fearing repercussions due to Mathis' connection to Prime’s coaching staff. Athlon reached out to Allen's father, who also denied comment.

Outside of the fights, which now appear to be spilling over to the field during practice with Coach Prime even encouraging teammates to square off against each other, the gun culture is troublesome. According to a report by Naples Daily News, Colorado commit Ebenezer Bouzi was arrested for allegedly threatened a girl with a gun six months before he was charged with misdemeanor battery stemming from an incident last year.

"According to the Collier County Sheriff's Office incident report, witnesses saw Bouzi forcing a girl, between the age of 16 and 17, into a late-model Ford Focus sedan by a male witness. According to the report, Bouzi, 18, grabbed the girl by the neck, and the witness "approached the car and asked the driver and the girl what was going on and the young girl was crying and upset."

"According to the report, the mother said Bouzi threatened her daughter with a gun approximately six months earlier and said she fears for her daughter's life." The charges were later dropped by the Florida State Attorney's office after a lack of evidence, according to public records.

[Unagi]

Well, go buffs?


Bleh, that's super discouraging.

[Pyperkub]

Ouch.

[ImLawBoy]

The NCAA handed down a 4 year show cause for Harbaugh related to the recruiting violations (commonly known in the Michigan world as "Burgergate"). Any school that wants to hire Harbaugh in the next 4 years will need to explain to the Committee on Infractions why, and Harbaugh's first year would be under suspension. This is kind of like punishing me by forbidding to drink Bud Light for the next four years - it's not going to happen anyway, so what's the big deal?

Note that this unrelated to Signgate and Michigan already came to an agreement with the NCAA related to this on an institutional level, so no further impact to the school or football program from this.

[ImLawBoy]

Meanwhile, OSU is reporting that their NIL commitment for 2024 is $20 million.

[JCC]

I read about the Harbaugh thing and laughed. I would imagine Harbaugh will get at least 3 years unless they go practically winless. Feels like a punishment with no teeth to me.

OSU is definitely getting panicky. Ryan Day, who wins almost every game he coaches, may get sacked if he loses to Michigan this year.

[Scuzz]

Meanwhile, OSU is reporting that their NIL commitment for 2024 is $20 million.

This is what will eventually destroy college football as we know it. The top schools will all have to do that and it will only get more expensive as time passes. At some point the economy really will crash ( it always does every 25 years or so) and the money will dry up.

I predict within 10 years there will be one 30 team conference and a third of those will be massively outspent.

[Skinypupy]

Meanwhile, OSU is reporting that their NIL commitment for 2024 is $20 million.

This is what will eventually destroy college football as we know it. The top schools will all have to do that and it will only get more expensive as time passes. At some point the economy really will crash ( it always does every 25 years or so) and the money will dry up.

I predict within 10 years there will be one 30 team conference and a third of those will be massively outspent.

Yup.

It's great news for fans of about 20 teams, and sucks for literally everyone else.

[ImLawBoy]

I'm not sure I understand. Is the money going to dry up, or are we going to have so much money that some teams will lap the others? Dry up for some but continue unabated for others?

In any event, I'm sure not looking forward to a world where only a handful of teams year in and year out have a realistic shot at a title. Can we go back in time 50 years or so (maybe longer) to when that started so we can stop it and get back to the pure, unbridled competition of the glory days of NCAA football where the powerhouses had to earn their keep the old fashioned way - by cheating unrelentingly?

I'm not saying that I love everything about where college football is and where it's heading, but I find these predictions of doom unconvincing. College football has always been rotten at its core, nostalgia notwithstanding, and it will likely continue to be rotten. The rot is more obvious now with the massive influx of money over the last 20 years, but that's not saying it's going to kill the whole enterprise. Things will change, we'll get used to it. Some fans will drop off, new fans will jump on. Some teams will become irrelevant, some will emerge. Cycle of life, and all that.

[JCC]

I'm not that doom and gloom. CFB pays a lot of bills, so I don't think schools are going to stop playing it. Having said that, the top schools in the Big 10 and SEC are definitely going to be a tier above the ACC and Big/Allstate/Whatever they are going to call themseleves 12. The Big 12 may be the most entertaining conference this year, since they are nearly all in the decent to very good range. Of course this will almost certainly limit them to one playoff berth. That is the ACC and Big 12's nightmare scenario.

(Well, the real one would be if the SEC/Big 10 just split away from them and incorporate the few teams they still have an interest in. That's what I fear the most. What I love about CFB is the sheer volume of interesting games every week. It's the best (sports) TV product out for me - and by and large the only one I always want to watch. If the parity disintegrates so bad that the big 12/ACC can't ever win a playoff game and/or always only get one team in, it's bad for people like me who just love the sheer volume of exciting games every week and would rather not worry about my team's conference being a non factor.)

[ImLawBoy]

I know this will be unpopular, but I'm used to giving unpopular opinions in college football threads.

The big problem with college football these days is the playoff. Not the structure, not how many teams, not how long it takes. The existence of the playoff (and the BCS before that).

Realistic chances at a national championship have always been few and far between outside of a handful of schools. That was OK, though, because fans and alumni enjoyed the conference races and trying to make a bowl game. The bowl games were then a sign of a successful season for the vast majority of schools.

With the playoff and the need to crown a true national champ, though, the luster is completely gone from the typical bowl games. Now it's playoff or bust. And you still have largely the same cast of characters with a realistic chance at a national championship, but now the vast majority of schools (i.e., the rest of them) don't have pride of a conference title and/or a bowl win. Playoff or bust. It's shifted expectations in a way that has hurt a lot of fans' ability to enjoy the games.

[JCC]

I don't think anything in your post is "wrong" but, it definitely doesn't apply to me. I do have a favorite team (my alma mater NC State) who has virtually zero chance of ever winning a national championship but I love college football because it has the best regular season. Every Saturday I can watch football for 12 hours (or more) and it's a feast of multiple games on at once. I often have had 2-3 TVs on at once since there is so much content happening at once. Even with the expanded playoff, the stakes of winning and losing are so high every week since losses matter. (Albeit they matter less now than during the BCS and 4 team playoff. But they still matter more than in any other sport.)

My interest in college football currently DECREASES after the regular season ends. I still follow it and watch plenty of it. But, I am over bowl games completely. They are nothing but meaningless exhibition games that exist solely to make money. Last year tons of elite players didn't even bother playing in them. I don't think that's because of the playoff. It's because it's a way to get injured. I watch bits of the bowl games, but not much. I'd much rather have an expanded playoff over the bowls. I am OK with bowl games existing, and will watch some of them. But, I won't mourn much if they go away.

My main fear of the new alignment is if the ACC and Big 12 fall so far behind the Big 10 and SEC, then there will be a virtual premier league. It would be better for the sport as a whole if the ACC and/or Big 12 could get more than one playoff team in each year (or at least some years). Given how much the group of 5 conferences have been ravaged by realignment, I hope they eventually lose their playoff spot. I will eat my words if the G5 champ wins their playoff game this year!

[Unagi]

I think you describe a real problem, one that is very worthy of conversation - but it seems like a problem on its own, and the NIL money is its own issue.


I have a slighty warped CFB experience and hence my view is probably off - but I was at the University of Colorado in 1990 when they won the NC.

[Pyperkub]

I know this will be unpopular, but I'm used to giving unpopular opinions in college football threads.

The big problem with college football these days is the playoff. Not the structure, not how many teams, not how long it takes. The existence of the playoff (and the BCS before that).

Realistic chances at a national championship have always been few and far between outside of a handful of schools. That was OK, though, because fans and alumni enjoyed the conference races and trying to make a bowl game. The bowl games were then a sign of a successful season for the vast majority of schools.

With the playoff and the need to crown a true national champ, though, the luster is completely gone from the typical bowl games. Now it's playoff or bust. And you still have largely the same cast of characters with a realistic chance at a national championship, but now the vast majority of schools (i.e., the rest of them) don't have pride of a conference title and/or a bowl win. Playoff or bust. It's shifted expectations in a way that has hurt a lot of fans' ability to enjoy the games.

I don't think NIL and the Portal, or even the BCS/Playoff had much to do with this tho. Players opting out to not get injured and blow their shot at NFL millions is more about NFL/Pro contracts being so much larger than they were back then that it was going to happen - so many of these kids play football because of the possible future riches, not because they love it, or their University, etc. (and all the leeches hanging on are trying to get their cut too, and constantly pushing players to put self before team...).

[ImLawBoy]

NIL/Portal didn't have anything to do with it. But it's hard to separate BCS/Playoffs from the trend of players skipping bowl games since they started at the same time. Maybe it would have happened anyway at some point, but I think the exclamation point of the BCS/Playoffs emphasized how meaningless the rest of the bowl games truly are triggered the realization that the smart business move for those with a future in pro football would be to skip them.

[Scuzz]

Money is what has changed things. TV money has grown to the point where the rich get richer and those on the fringe are getting left behind. You see it in coaches pay, in NIL and in facilities.

College football will simply become a Saturday version of the NFL with its own minor league system. That being the 80% of college teams that will be playing to hopefully make enough to cover their sports budgets.

I am glad to see players making money though, but I do hope that through legislation or a players union there is some control over it.

[ImLawBoy]

Money, of course, changes things, but it hasn't changed the reality that there are only a handful teams year in and year out who have a chance to win a championship, with the occasional spoiler poking it through to give the illusion parity. That was the case before the big money came, and it remains the case now.

[Pyperkub]

Money is what has changed things. TV money has grown to the point where the rich get richer and those on the fringe are getting left behind. You see it in coaches pay, in NIL and in facilities.

College football will simply become a Saturday version of the NFL with its own minor league system. That being the 80% of college teams that will be playing to hopefully make enough to cover their sports budgets.

I am glad to see players making money though, but I do hope that through legislation or a players union there is some control over it.

They'll probably start doing some Futbol things to - like maybe transfer fees (in the NIL contracts, of course)... (we already have promotion/relegation kind of happening with the Conference changes and WSU/OSU, tho I doubt that will go full promotion /relegation...).

[Pyperkub]

Well, the AP top 25 poll is out. 80% of the top 10 is in the Big 2, and only 10% (#10!!!) is from the next 2 (ND is the other).

1Georgia Bulldogs 1,532 (46)
2 Ohio State Buckeyes 1,490 (15)
3 Oregon Ducks 1,403 (1)
4 Texas Longhorns 1,386
5 Alabama Crimson Tide 1,260
6 Ole Miss Rebels 1,189
7 Notre Dame Fighting Irish 1,122
8 Penn State Nittany Lions 1,060
9 Michigan Wolverines 995
10 Florida State Seminoles 971
11 Missouri Tigers 927
12 Utah Utes 887
13 LSU Tigers 804
14 Clemson Tigers 689
15 Tennessee Volunteers 629
16 Oklahoma Sooners 566
17 Oklahoma State Cowboys 538
18 Kansas State Wildcats 526
19 Miami Hurricanes 492
20 Texas A&M Aggies 292
21 Arizona Wildcats 237
22 Kansas Jayhawks 231
23 USC Trojans 172
24 North Carolina State Wolfpack 171
25 Iowa Hawkeyes 140

Personally, I think tOSU is the team to beat, and it's all about getting Chip Kelly. I fully expect them to have the top rushing attack in the country, by far (save for the option service academies).

I think a number of these teams have some massive question marks, and I'd probably have the G5 contenders (Boise St./Memphis seem to the tops, tho Fresno St should be really good) ranked ahead of some of these teams (I think Oregon, Oklahoma, Arizona, Kansas, Miami, FSU, Texas A&M and probably Iowa are currently overrated - while Oregon is still a top 10 team, I think the NC chatter is a bit off - WAY too much turnover, which is weird, because Ohio St had a lot of turnover too, but I think Ohio St was winning with a middling QB, while Nix was huge for Oregon, and the transition will be tough, even with Gabriel coming over.

thoughts?

[ImLawBoy]

The big question mark for OSU is at QB. They pulled a transfer from Kansas State who is supposed to be good, but I don't think he was elite and I'm not sure he will be. It may not matter with all of the running and receiving talent around him, but he's the potential Achilles' heel for the Buckeyes. They've also got a 5 star freshman QB, but I suspect they'll start off with the transfer.

I honestly have no clue about Oregon. Everyone says they're good, but I didn't watch them much last year and I don't have anything on which to base a solid opinion. (I know, it's sports, so I should just act like I know and make bold predictions.)

Interesting to see Alabama at 5 even after the coaching change. I imagine its due to the massive amount of talent they retained and DeBoer's reputation, but it's always tricky following a legend.

I think Michigan is getting a little sympathy bump from winning last year's title. It's hard for me to see them as a top 10 team with all of the changes. The defense should be great and is mostly intact from last year, but the staff is largely new. Everything on the offense is a question mark except for TE. Even Donovan Edwards at RB runs hot and cold. QB is still open. Considering Michigan has preseason nos. 2-4 on the schedule for this year, it could be a rough transition.

It's funny, because I look at this list and, outside of the very top, I'm not sold on these teams. Penn State at 8? Franklin is still coaching there, right? Missouri at 11? Iowa ranked at all?

[Pyperkub]

It's funny, because I look at this list and, outside of the very top, I'm not sold on these teams. Penn State at 8? Franklin is still coaching there, right? Missouri at 11? Iowa ranked at all?

Penn St is still Franklin, but with (potentially) a real offense after changing OC's - I still have my doubts as to how much that will work too, but they have been a pretty consistent top 10 team at the end of the season, even while not being able to beat Mich/OSU. Penn St also gets just about all their tough games at home.

Mizzou did beat Ohio St (with backup qb and wr's) last year in the bowl game, and teams do tend to be evaluated /overrated in the preseason based on bowl results (UCLA spotting Boise a large lead, and then crushing them in the Bowl last year is probably why Boise isn't ranked).

Iowa was a top 25 team based on their Defense and special teams last year and a negative offense, so I don't mind them being ranked to start (esp with McNamara back), but I do think they will struggle with the West Coast B1G additions, tho they do get the (apparently) weakest ones as they adjust to new coaches this year (UW/UCLA), but also Wisconsin and Nebraska should be much tougher than last year. I have doubts about them finishing in the top 25, but I don't have much of a problem with them being there to start the season.

[ImLawBoy]

Mizzou did beat Ohio St (with backup qb and wr's) last year in the bowl game, and teams do tend to be evaluated /overrated in the preseason based on bowl results (UCLA spotting Boise a large lead, and then crushing them in the Bowl last year is probably why Boise isn't ranked).

Any voter using prior year's non-playoff bowl results to influence their preseason vote in the year 2024 should have their voting privileges revoked immediately.

[Pyperkub]

Mizzou did beat Ohio St (with backup qb and wr's) last year in the bowl game, and teams do tend to be evaluated /overrated in the preseason based on bowl results (UCLA spotting Boise a large lead, and then crushing them in the Bowl last year is probably why Boise isn't ranked).

Any voter using prior year's non-playoff bowl results to influence their preseason vote in the year 2024 should have their voting privileges revoked immediately.

That would be most of the AP voters for the past couple of decades . The ones who only move teams up if other teams lose, and have serious attachment issues to their original ballots...

Fun site if you haven't seen it before - college poll tracker - you can drill down on individual ballots, see who has certain teams as outliers, as well as potential historical biases (which usually don't include if they were actually correct, just that they didn't conform to the standard).